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Post by raider92 on Jan 20, 2023 11:56:47 GMT -6
I grew up playing for a HOF hs coach who was around forever. Almost every adult Male in the 3 towns that share the program played for him. They all got the same life lessons, they all remember the same mantras and sayings that he used, etc.
Now some of those guys received those lessons but didn't actually LEARN them but a whole lot did. The entire community's philosophy, attitude, mindset, work ethic, etc., was impacted by one coach. They'll raise their kids with those lessons. It's totally incalculable the level of impact the program had and overwhelming to think about; especially the ways it will continue to impact people.
If the program hadn't won games he wouldn't have been around for 35 years, so while he wouldve been a great guy either way, winning allowed him to impact a whole lot more people.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2023 12:41:37 GMT -6
Yessir... I've experienced more criticism in a highly successful program than a mediocre one. Things do get rough when you're in a struggling program. But... The type of b-tching you get typically tells you why the program is struggling.
Absolutely. Winning programs lead to fans expecting to win all the time/being unhappy that you aren't winning even more. Losing programs that have always been losers by contrast come with a lot less criticism because no one really cares that much in my experience.
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 20, 2023 14:02:00 GMT -6
Absolutely. Winning programs lead to fans expecting to win all the time/being unhappy that you aren't winning even more. Losing programs that have always been losers by contrast come with a lot less criticism because no one really cares that much in my experience.
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
I went to scout a team one year that we were going to have to beat to win our conference. They played a Saturday game against another team in our conference who was a doormat. The game was at the doormat's field (these teams would coop the next year). The doormat had several HS age guys sitting in the bed of their trucks in the south endzone that probably would have helped them talent wise, but when they started the "Win or lose we still booze!" chant in the 2nd quarter I knew why they sucked. |
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Post by raider92 on Jan 20, 2023 15:58:50 GMT -6
Absolutely. Winning programs lead to fans expecting to win all the time/being unhappy that you aren't winning even more. Losing programs that have always been losers by contrast come with a lot less criticism because no one really cares that much in my experience.
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
For sure, my sister came and watched a game about mid-way through my first year as a HC (at a school that had sucked for quite awhile) and reported back to me on the peanut gallery's assessment of me. The group of folks sitting to her right thought I was the best coach they'd had in 20 years (we had a winning record for once), and the group to her left loudly let everyone know I was a "f*cking idiot". I highly recommend sitting in the stands at games during the playoffs or on bye weeks, it'll be a HUGE eye opener for you guys who may not do it real often. You can tell a toxic situation/community very quickly. It's also shocking to hear some of the comments that are directed at state championship level coaches and teams. I hate to judge whole communities based on a few doorknobs but it really does seem like some communities are just toxic/negative and genuinely aren't able to produce successful programs because those things get so ingrained. Conversely, great communities produce great programs and those great programs sustain great communities. It's like anything in life, winners keep on winning and losers keep on losing. Momentum is tough to break |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2023 16:35:18 GMT -6
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
For sure, my sister came and watched a game about mid-way through my first year as a HC (at a school that had sucked for quite awhile) and reported back to me on the peanut gallery's assessment of me. The group of folks sitting to her right thought I was the best coach they'd had in 20 years (we had a winning record for once), and the group to her left loudly let everyone know I was a "f*cking idiot". I highly recommend sitting in the stands at games during the playoffs or on bye weeks, it'll be a HUGE eye opener for you guys who may not do it real often. You can tell a toxic situation/community very quickly. It's also shocking to hear some of the comments that are directed at state championship level coaches and teams. I hate to judge whole communities based on a few doorknobs but it really does seem like some communities are just toxic/negative and genuinely aren't able to produce successful programs because those things get so ingrained. Conversely, great communities produce great programs and those great programs sustain great communities. It's like anything in life, winners keep on winning and losers keep on losing. Momentum is tough to break
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 20, 2023 22:00:10 GMT -6
raider92 said, "Conversely, great communities produce great programs and those great programs sustain great communities. It's like anything in life, winners keep on winning and losers keep on losing. Momentum is tough to break." After coaching for a number of years, and in different types of communities...I totally agree with his assessment.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 21, 2023 7:00:25 GMT -6
I grew up playing for a HOF hs coach who was around forever. Almost every adult Male in the 3 towns that share the program played for him. They all got the same life lessons, they all remember the same mantras and sayings that he used, etc. Now some of those guys received those lessons but didn't actually LEARN them but a whole lot did. The entire community's philosophy, attitude, mindset, work ethic, etc., was impacted by one coach. They'll raise their kids with those lessons. It's totally incalculable the level of impact the program had and overwhelming to think about; especially the ways it will continue to impact people. If the program hadn't won games he wouldn't have been around for 35 years, so while he wouldve been a great guy either way, winning allowed him to impact a whole lot more people. Looking back at the original question (What are the pluses for both a school and a community for having a perennial SUCCESSFUL Football Program as opposed to just having a Football Program?), this is a great answer.
It made me sit back and reflect a bit... I constantly get on the soap-box about our current state of affairs where it's all instant gratification and if "I don't see results right away I'm quitting" etc. etc..
... and then I realized I'm doing the same damn thing.
I'll stand by my original answer on the surface level... Four years of building to a state title created much excitement... seven years of sustained success became the norm and was no longer exciting.
But that's not the point. I should know that. The impact a coach has on the players is immeasurable. And coaches who have a major positive impact will impact a community more the longer they are in that community... that's just simple math.
Success can lead to sustainability (unfortunately, it doesn't ensure that as I see a lot of winning coaches on the hot seat).
This isn't necessarily about whether little Timmy's parents are happy or upset, it isn't about whether the pep rallies are good or the booster club president would rather have us run a different offense.
I've been fortunate enough to coach 2 guys who had long NFL careers. I've also coached 2 guys who went to prison. I don't think my influence was what got them there- it was going to happen with or without me there.
It's about the kid who had a 1.0 GPA entering his senior year, who showed up to meet his new coach after being released from a juvenile detention facility. Despite being undersized a little, this kid had a great senior year (and team has a great year) and was able to get his act together and get his grades up enough to get an opportunity to go to a small juco program (because we called everyone who had a football program) and get a degree in HVAC and now owns his own company and has a family and builds custom motorcycles for fun... and damn, this "kid' is in his 40s now...
And I'm sure most of you have plenty of stories like this of guys who went through your programs.
That's where the impact matters.
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 21, 2023 10:33:13 GMT -6
For sure, my sister came and watched a game about mid-way through my first year as a HC (at a school that had sucked for quite awhile) and reported back to me on the peanut gallery's assessment of me. The group of folks sitting to her right thought I was the best coach they'd had in 20 years (we had a winning record for once), and the group to her left loudly let everyone know I was a "f*cking idiot". I highly recommend sitting in the stands at games during the playoffs or on bye weeks, it'll be a HUGE eye opener for you guys who may not do it real often. You can tell a toxic situation/community very quickly. It's also shocking to hear some of the comments that are directed at state championship level coaches and teams. I hate to judge whole communities based on a few doorknobs but it really does seem like some communities are just toxic/negative and genuinely aren't able to produce successful programs because those things get so ingrained. Conversely, great communities produce great programs and those great programs sustain great communities. It's like anything in life, winners keep on winning and losers keep on losing. Momentum is tough to break
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
IMHO you can change the culture of a program...quality leadership matters...in all schools. The primary Administrative decision maker (be that Superintendent, Principal or A.D.) and the Head Coach in particular. If they both have a genuine interest in changing the culture of their program...it can, and will happen (assuming there is close to comparable physical talent available to allow their team to be competitive). |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 21, 2023 18:11:28 GMT -6
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
IMHO you can change the culture of a program...quality leadership matters...in all schools. The primary Administrative decision maker (be that Superintendent, Principal or A.D.) and the Head Coach in particular. If they both have a genuine interest in changing the culture of their program...it can, and will happen (assuming there is close to comparable physical talent available to allow their team to be competitive). You CAN change programs with leadership, but if the community doesn't want it, it isn't going to stick. |
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 21, 2023 18:59:11 GMT -6
IMHO you can change the culture of a program...quality leadership matters...in all schools. The primary Administrative decision maker (be that Superintendent, Principal or A.D.) and the Head Coach in particular. If they both have a genuine interest in changing the culture of their program...it can, and will happen (assuming there is close to comparable physical talent available to allow their team to be competitive). You CAN change programs with leadership, but if the community doesn't want it, it isn't going to stick. This may be true...but what kind of a community would not enjoy watching their kids enjoy success? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 21, 2023 19:14:14 GMT -6
You CAN change programs with leadership, but if the community doesn't want it, it isn't going to stick. This may be true...but what kind of a community would not enjoy watching their kids enjoy success? The list of communities and programs that match larrymoe 's description is likely quite long- if by "watching their kids enjoy success" you mean willing to do what is necessary to obtain that success. If you meant communities think that success just magically happens because of "good coaching" (but not because of doing what the coach tells you)-- then I would agree. Many communities want to see their kids win for those 3 hours on Friday Night. It isn't that different than asking "what kind of kid doesn't want to be successful" and yet we see how many make choices that point them in the opposite direction. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 21, 2023 19:30:56 GMT -6
You CAN change programs with leadership, but if the community doesn't want it, it isn't going to stick. This may be true...but what kind of a community would not enjoy watching their kids enjoy success? I've coached in at least 2. Heck, I grew up in one. Idk why people were like that, but my Sr year we were ranked #1 in wrestling from the beginning of the year to the state tournament (we got 2nd as a team my Jr year) and all we heard from our community was how we weren't going to be able to win. I think that if we would have had success it would have made them personally feel like failures and God forbid the realize their lives aren't the most significant thing on the planet earth. |
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 21, 2023 22:22:30 GMT -6
I recently read an Abraham Lincoln quote: "With public sentiment anything is possible--without it nothing is possible."
Perhaps President Lincoln's quote corroborates what you guys are saying about certain community attitudes.
Thankfully I have never coached in a community like those that you have experienced.
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Post by jg78 on Jan 22, 2023 17:07:09 GMT -6
Looking for opinions... What are the pluses for both a school and a community for having a perennial SUCCESSFUL Football Program as opposed to just having a Football Program? Many years ago my dad (a successful high school football coach in Alabama) was working toward his masters in education. He took a class one time in which the professor said, “You can stop by any small town gas station or restaurant in Alabama and ask people about the quality of the high school. If the football team is winning, they will say it’s a great school. If it’s not, they will say it’s lousy. And none of it has anything to do with what’s going on in an English classroom.” |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 22, 2023 17:46:42 GMT -6
Looking for opinions... What are the pluses for both a school and a community for having a perennial SUCCESSFUL Football Program as opposed to just having a Football Program? Many years ago my dad (a successful high school football coach in Alabama) was working toward his masters in education. He took a class one time in which the professor said, “You can stop by any small town gas station or restaurant in Alabama and ask people about the quality of the high school. If the football team is winning, they will say it’s a great school. If it’s not, they will say it’s lousy. And none of it has anything to do with what’s going on in an English classroom.” Is that an example of a programs value to the school/community, or an indictment on the critical thinking skills of the residents of small towns in Alabama? |
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Post by jg78 on Jan 22, 2023 19:06:08 GMT -6
The former.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 22, 2023 20:47:11 GMT -6
How so? I don't see how someone in a restaurant or gas station (ie. town residents) evaluating a schools performance as good simply because they win football games on Friday night is a benefit to the community. That is like a citizen of New Orleans saying everything is going great because the Saints are playing well when the city had 265 murders in 2022 and has had over 400 cars stolen in the first 16 days of 2023. Their is no connection other than a false one created by the respondent. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 22, 2023 20:52:29 GMT -6
Alabama's education system is consistently 45-50th in the nation. People judging schools based on the football team is not a good thing.
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Post by jg78 on Jan 23, 2023 5:27:57 GMT -6
To the average guy in the town, what else does he know about the school other than how the sports teams are doing? No one is sitting in sophomore math class but many go to football games.
I’m not being critical. It’s just reality. In a world where college football coaches make several times what the university president makes and star players are household names and will make more in NIL deals than professors will in a decade, it isn’t hard to believe.
The benefit of a winning football program to a school might sometimes exist only in public perception - but we all know that’s important too.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 23, 2023 9:19:15 GMT -6
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
IMHO you can change the culture of a program...quality leadership matters...in all schools. The primary Administrative decision maker (be that Superintendent, Principal or A.D.) and the Head Coach in particular.
If they both have a genuine interest in changing the culture of their program...it can, and will happen (assuming there is close to comparable physical talent available to allow their team to be competitive).
This is the key; the community has to want to change. I enjoyed my tenure as HC in the school and we did some great things. But we were competing against an exceptionally successful basketball program that was pushing kids away from football.
IME, it all comes down to numbers. In an 8-man program, I feel that you can turn the corner if you can keep around 20 kids out for ball. That gives you a JV squad and the ability to run quality practices. Below that mark, you run into issues as a)your younger kids aren't getting much playing time and b)practice becomes difficult for a variety of reasons.
Our highest roll count was 24 kids. But, that was two days after school started (we had 13 out during 2-a-days) and those numbers thinned out in a hurry when the kids realized that the program had attendance standards. Within a week or two, we were down to 15 kids as nine either quit or were kicked off of the team for not showing up to practice.
I don't know, maybe another coach could've done a better job and turned the corner. But, I didn't see it in the cards for me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 23, 2023 12:27:55 GMT -6
To the average guy in the town, what else does he know about the school other than how the sports teams are doing? No one is sitting in sophomore math class but many go to football games. I’m not being critical. It’s just reality. In a world where college football coaches make several times what the university president makes and star players are household names and will make more in NIL deals than professors will in a decade, it isn’t hard to believe. The benefit of a winning football program to a school might sometimes exist only in public perception - but we all know that’s important too. That’s fair. |
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Post by coachdmyers on Jan 24, 2023 14:02:58 GMT -6
I grew up playing for a HOF hs coach who was around forever. Almost every adult Male in the 3 towns that share the program played for him. They all got the same life lessons, they all remember the same mantras and sayings that he used, etc. Now some of those guys received those lessons but didn't actually LEARN them but a whole lot did. The entire community's philosophy, attitude, mindset, work ethic, etc., was impacted by one coach. They'll raise their kids with those lessons. It's totally incalculable the level of impact the program had and overwhelming to think about; especially the ways it will continue to impact people. If the program hadn't won games he wouldn't have been around for 35 years, so while he wouldve been a great guy either way, winning allowed him to impact a whole lot more people. Looking back at the original question (What are the pluses for both a school and a community for having a perennial SUCCESSFUL Football Program as opposed to just having a Football Program?), this is a great answer.
It made me sit back and reflect a bit... I constantly get on the soap-box about our current state of affairs where it's all instant gratification and if "I don't see results right away I'm quitting" etc. etc..
... and then I realized I'm doing the same damn thing.
I'll stand by my original answer on the surface level... Four years of building to a state title created much excitement... seven years of sustained success became the norm and was no longer exciting.
But that's not the point. I should know that. The impact a coach has on the players is immeasurable. And coaches who have a major positive impact will impact a community more the longer they are in that community... that's just simple math.
Success can lead to sustainability (unfortunately, it doesn't ensure that as I see a lot of winning coaches on the hot seat).
This isn't necessarily about whether little Timmy's parents are happy or upset, it isn't about whether the pep rallies are good or the booster club president would rather have us run a different offense.
I've been fortunate enough to coach 2 guys who had long NFL careers. I've also coached 2 guys who went to prison. I don't think my influence was what got them there- it was going to happen with or without me there.
It's about the kid who had a 1.0 GPA entering his senior year, who showed up to meet his new coach after being released from a juvenile detention facility. Despite being undersized a little, this kid had a great senior year (and team has a great year) and was able to get his act together and get his grades up enough to get an opportunity to go to a small juco program (because we called everyone who had a football program) and get a degree in HVAC and now owns his own company and has a family and builds custom motorcycles for fun... and damn, this "kid' is in his 40s now...
And I'm sure most of you have plenty of stories like this of guys who went through your programs.
That's where the impact matters.
So one thing that occurred to me going through this thread, and this kind of hit on it, is that we as football coaches might not want to get tied to closely to the argument that a *winning* program is what gives value to a school/community. Only so many programs can be "winning" each year, fewer over several years. You can be a losing program and provide a lot of value to the school, assuming the losing is somewhat out of your control (like relative available talent). So what value to do you/does your program provide when you're not winning? I think stories like this are the key. Kids need all kinds of support from all kinds of different people. Some will connect with the drama teacher, some a football coach. It's those kinds of connections that *can* create value for a school, community, kids, etc. Which gives me an idea for a thread... |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 24, 2023 15:07:29 GMT -6
Looking back at the original question (What are the pluses for both a school and a community for having a perennial SUCCESSFUL Football Program as opposed to just having a Football Program?), this is a great answer.
It made me sit back and reflect a bit... I constantly get on the soap-box about our current state of affairs where it's all instant gratification and if "I don't see results right away I'm quitting" etc. etc..
... and then I realized I'm doing the same damn thing.
I'll stand by my original answer on the surface level... Four years of building to a state title created much excitement... seven years of sustained success became the norm and was no longer exciting.
But that's not the point. I should know that. The impact a coach has on the players is immeasurable. And coaches who have a major positive impact will impact a community more the longer they are in that community... that's just simple math.
Success can lead to sustainability (unfortunately, it doesn't ensure that as I see a lot of winning coaches on the hot seat).
This isn't necessarily about whether little Timmy's parents are happy or upset, it isn't about whether the pep rallies are good or the booster club president would rather have us run a different offense.
I've been fortunate enough to coach 2 guys who had long NFL careers. I've also coached 2 guys who went to prison. I don't think my influence was what got them there- it was going to happen with or without me there.
It's about the kid who had a 1.0 GPA entering his senior year, who showed up to meet his new coach after being released from a juvenile detention facility. Despite being undersized a little, this kid had a great senior year (and team has a great year) and was able to get his act together and get his grades up enough to get an opportunity to go to a small juco program (because we called everyone who had a football program) and get a degree in HVAC and now owns his own company and has a family and builds custom motorcycles for fun... and damn, this "kid' is in his 40s now...
And I'm sure most of you have plenty of stories like this of guys who went through your programs.
That's where the impact matters.
So one thing that occurred to me going through this thread, and this kind of hit on it, is that we as football coaches might not want to get tied to closely to the argument that a *winning* program is what gives value to a school/community. Only so many programs can be "winning" each year, fewer over several years. You can be a losing program and provide a lot of value to the school, assuming the losing is somewhat out of your control (like relative available talent). So what value to do you/does your program provide when you're not winning? I think stories like this are the key. Kids need all kinds of support from all kinds of different people. Some will connect with the drama teacher, some a football coach. It's those kinds of connections that *can* create value for a school, community, kids, etc. Which gives me an idea for a thread... yet no admin EVER will hire a 'losing' coach if they can help it. I get what you're saying and I bet the vast majority that post on here will agree; sports is more important that being +1 on the score board Friday night. Hades, we are at a successful school with multiple state championships and compete in the toughest region in our state and are considered to be one of the 'blue bloods' in SC. Yet we still have to deal with 'daddy ball' complaints about us expecting our kids to pass their classes..... |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 24, 2023 15:14:24 GMT -6
So one thing that occurred to me going through this thread, and this kind of hit on it, is that we as football coaches might not want to get tied to closely to the argument that a *winning* program is what gives value to a school/community. Only so many programs can be "winning" each year, fewer over several years. You can be a losing program and provide a lot of value to the school I agree for the most part. "Winning" is relative. I would still argue that a "good" (i.e. competitive, playing for a title when they should, playing for a playoff spot when they can... playing to go .500 when that's about the peak) program will have more positive impacts than a "bad" program.
Good programs have down years... bad programs can have that 1/one million class that overcomes a lot and wins for a year. Sustained "success" will lead to more impact/more opportunity. It is also hard to keep that going, and outside forces (parents, community members, administrators who become navigators and want a "different direction") can get in the way.
A school I spent 13 years at before I came here is what I would call a "good" program. 35 consecutive years in the playoffs (the playoff system has since been watered down since the early years)... 4 times in a state championship game (winning one). In 40 plus years there have been three head coaches: My mentor, myself, and a former player. MY role was that of a cog in the system, and I am not discounting what I did, but I also know it was built long before I got there and has continued long after I left.
If you do what you should with your talent (which WE- coaches usually define differently than those on the outside see it), have a value system beyond wins-losses, help boys become men (or get them going down that path), then you can usually keep the vultures at bay. Usually... not always.
I never played for a team with a winning record- but I did play for two coaches (in my senior year in HS and senior year in college) who brought the groundwork for a winning culture that came later. That made a huge difference for me and probably influenced me to get in to coaching.
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