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Post by kylem56 on Dec 3, 2022 23:33:30 GMT -6
So to give some background. I have coached the Michigan Power-T or the Wing-T most years of my career. I have been really lucky to coach 2 "All Americans" but one was a Punter/Kicker and one was a Center. Watching the Michigan-Purdue game tonight and having seen many of these kids in high school when they played (not against me directly but just through film etc.), my question for you coaches is, if you ran a "unique" offense like the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Wishbone, Single Wing etc., how would you adapt your system to a special player who could play on this level? With our first All American (kicker/punter) who went on to start at Michigan State for 4 years, we didnt change anything. For our 2nd All American who played center, we still ran the Wing-T but tried to see what he could do in regards to pulling and one-on-one blocks. any smart@$$ answers please send to my messages with a * so I know not to read them , thanks for reading and look forward to reading responses from those who have had a similar experience.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 4:07:52 GMT -6
Shrink the playbook.Be who you are, want to be.I have said it before, my first boss, my hs coach would run inside veer, counter trey and mid line. When I was coaching there, there was no pitch element. THAT WAS IT. 99.9 pct of the calls. But what we had was Virginia, Colorado, Tenn Tech, UF, florida atlantic, tenn. michigan, stanford, usf, on the offensive line. Then my mentor put em through the progression. Boards, shoots, sleds, one on one’s, 2nd step down, hands inside frame. Those “SPECIAL KIDS” would turn that sled because the less than special couldnt do it early in the season. By middle of the year, sled moved down the field pretty close to a perfect line(which is what you want) And EVERY SINGLE DAY.
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Post by newt21 on Dec 4, 2022 7:02:40 GMT -6
Don’t change the offense but find creative ways to increase touches or take advantage of specific skills. For example flexbone teams with a stud B back will add in B toss so he can hit the perimeter, B screen so he can get touches in the pass game, and waggle to get him outside the box on a pass route.
A stud center allows you to not spend another OL on a nose, so it affords double teams and pulls elsewhere. Move him around for a heavy look where he can pull, or let him pull from the center position in a heavy and kick on the nub side.
The point is, if you’ve got a dude, don’t be afraid to branch off a little to take advantage of his skill set, but make sure you still do what you do, don’t turn into a jack of all trades.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 4, 2022 7:05:57 GMT -6
So to give some background. I have coached the Michigan Power-T or the Wing-T most years of my career. I have been really lucky to coach 2 "All Americans" but one was a Punter/Kicker and one was a Center. Watching the Michigan-Purdue game tonight and having seen many of these kids in high school when they played (not against me directly but just through film etc.), my question for you coaches is, if you ran a "unique" offense like the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Wishbone, Single Wing etc., how would you adapt your system to a special player who could play on this level? With our first All American (kicker/punter) who went on to start at Michigan State for 4 years, we didnt change anything. For our 2nd All American who played center, we still ran the Wing-T but tried to see what he could do in regards to pulling and one-on-one blocks. any smart@$$ answers please send to my messages with a * so I know not to read them , thanks for reading and look forward to reading responses from those who have had a similar experience. I guess my first response here would be why do you consider those offenses “unique”? Just because they are less common on Fridays and basically non existent on Saturday and Sunday? I would agree they arent common, but would bot say THAT makes them unique compared to 10-11 personnel gun stuff that is prevalent in football today. That said, I think you are on the right track given what you said about your lineman. Look for how your athlete’s comparative superiority can benefit your team. For lineman- 1) run behind him more. Lol. The obvious one. 2) change up standard traditional rules to benefit other lineman- at the detriment of your stud because his ability will compensate. 3) Maybe look at playing two ways (if you dont already do so). For skills- the offensive system- even the ones you labeled unique, should be deep enough to feature any spectacular talent on the field shouldn’t they? Reggie Bush was a halfback in the wing t. Rich gannon was a qb. I believe Brett Favre ran option with his dad as the coach (could be wrong).
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2022 8:15:47 GMT -6
I don’t know if you really have to do much at all when you have an elite player past don’t screw it up. The wing-t and Single Wing shouldn’t have a problem featuring a stud. You might have adapt some if you’ve at a QB that you don’t want to run in the single wing.
I guess in the different offenses you mentioned that would be the only thing I could think of that could force some adaptation. It’s one reason I’m a big fan of the wing-t is you can still feature that kid without changing things. The rest of the offenses for the most part you can plug and play with little change.
I think that is where some guys get in trouble. They start tinkering with proven systems to feature a kid instead of just running the system and letting the kid just be good at it.
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Post by bobgoodman on Dec 4, 2022 8:46:16 GMT -6
There are particular circumstances that would call for adjustments. One that comes to mind is having a left-handed passer.
Usually I'm more concerned with a lack of talents, which would require trimming the playbook, or the player who is so good he gets away with doing things wrong but could be better if he did them right.
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Post by dubber on Dec 4, 2022 20:08:35 GMT -6
Kind of the commonality of all the unique schemes listed is they are “spread the love” types of offenses. They are also series based, and you take what the defense gives you.
We moved to something like this, and went 7-3 with (5) players gaining over 300 scrimmage yards, and no one gaining over 1,000.
For us, it was a matter of making sure the critical touches went to the right guys. We would cross train our guys to make sure we could get them moved into the right position to take advantage of what the defense was giving us.
Now, if I had a scholarship kid at the skills, then I am either teaching him all the positions, or making sure the defense can never take away his touches by scheme.
If I had him at OL, then I am just going to run behind him all the time.
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Post by somecoach on Dec 4, 2022 21:09:50 GMT -6
Years and years ago in the DTDW we had a D1 RB. ... ran all the same stuff with a few bells and whistles ... he proceeded to run for 1500+ yards 25+ TDs.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 5, 2022 10:31:30 GMT -6
If we're talking about a RB, put them in a position where they can get effective touches regardless of how the defense is playing. I know a lot of Wing-T coaches like their best RB at FB but a spilling defense can limit his touches by taking away Belly and Down dives. Moving them over to the HB spot gives gives you more flexibility; Bucksweep versus spilling fronts, Power versus boxing/containment defense and most other plays that are tied into those series.
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Post by MICoach on Dec 5, 2022 10:52:06 GMT -6
Whether traditional or non, you need to be able to find ways within your system to "highlight" those sort of players.
I was in one program that had run the Double Wing for like 20 years, and we ended up with a stud QB for the first time ever. The natural solution to this was to have a package with both ends split out wide and the QB in gun - we could still run most of the base run plays and still make use of some quick game and vertical passing.
We had to do the same thing in a spread offense when we had a stud X receiver, but had lost a lot of our other skill position players by his senior year. His sophomore and junior years we had a couple other receivers that were weapons so teams had to play sound coverage, but once he was the only thing left he would just get bracketed every play. We ended up moving him to an off the ball role for a lot of the time to find different ways to create match ups.
Regradless of the offense, I think you need to look for creative ways to highlight your best players, whether they're blockers, passers, tacklers, etc., rather than making sweeping changes.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Dec 5, 2022 10:56:17 GMT -6
So to give some background. I have coached the Michigan Power-T or the Wing-T most years of my career. I have been really lucky to coach 2 "All Americans" but one was a Punter/Kicker and one was a Center. Watching the Michigan-Purdue game tonight and having seen many of these kids in high school when they played (not against me directly but just through film etc.), my question for you coaches is, if you ran a "unique" offense like the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Wishbone, Single Wing etc., how would you adapt your system to a special player who could play on this level? With our first All American (kicker/punter) who went on to start at Michigan State for 4 years, we didnt change anything. For our 2nd All American who played center, we still ran the Wing-T but tried to see what he could do in regards to pulling and one-on-one blocks. any smart@$$ answers please send to my messages with a * so I know not to read them , thanks for reading and look forward to reading responses from those who have had a similar experience. Off the top of my head if I'm running a Wing-T... * Stud QB who can stand in the pocket: Keep QB in pocket on play action instead of booting out. Add 2-3 drop-backs just for them. * Stud RB: Make them the full time halfback, and the other starting "HB" the full time wing-back * Stud WR: Easy there in a Wing-T. As another comment said: Don't change the system, but put that player in a position to get more touches. If you were say an option team, maybe go to an I-form backfield with the stud RB as the tail and run all the pitch tracks. Use the other slot-back as the full-time slot-back to either side.
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dbc2001
Sophomore Member
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Post by dbc2001 on Dec 5, 2022 11:14:29 GMT -6
I would echo to not over think it. Depending on type of skill player, some kind of direct snap package using your base run schemes. The NYS championships were this past weekend and Rocket/GT combo and dive/keep combo won one of the games. In my experience the issue can become designing the touches so that the stud runs to both the left and right.
A QB in PA based offense will still be making throws to spots, the trouble will be the protection.
The stud WR is at the mercy of a combination of the QB/OL. Chuck-up in HS is a legitimate play that doesn't require to pass block for a while. Reverses are great too.
In terms of the OL, most of those recruits don't start as Freshmen. As a result there is time to catch up on pass pro skills.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Dec 5, 2022 12:55:23 GMT -6
I dont run wing anything, so this is pure speculation.
Part of the reason that wing offenses are successful is the level of deception/reads/gaining gaps/outnumbering the D at the point of attack. I would speculate that gearing those offenses for a specific player rather than what the D is giving you would create more issues.
Just bragging. We had a school record passer and a school record rusher this year. For the better part of 35 years our schools coaches ran variations of the wing T and double wing. We have had more rushing yards in a season but the total was split between 3-4 players. We also had streaks of 5 and three streaks of 4 games without completing a pass. And no they weren’t good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 14:10:19 GMT -6
Put the elite player in the most important spot that suits his skills in your offense.
Then take advantage of his abilities by either feeding him the ball or working behind his blocks.
There's no need to do anything fancy.
Growing up, a school in my area had a couple of D1 prospects in football and a stud athlete who got a scholarship to play PF at Wake Forest. They still ran the wishbone and won state doing it. The QB was under center (and at 6'9" with a very low stance, it looked funny), their 230lb stud who got a D1 scholarship at LB played TB so they could feed him on Double Iso, and the other guy was an OL they ran behind all the time.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Dec 5, 2022 14:30:59 GMT -6
Never had that type of talent but I've been in the situation where 1 player was better than his backfield counterparts. Were Wing-T and the better back was a FB(kid was not a HB, didn't have those skills, was a down hill runner and not shifty). I adjusted play calling to get him the ball more and added a couple of sets where the HB and WB were on the same side and we ran Belly/Down with an extra blocker.
The same season we had a good QB so we ran some Flood concepts out of those same sets.
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Post by coachdmyers on Dec 6, 2022 12:14:53 GMT -6
So to give some background. I have coached the Michigan Power-T or the Wing-T most years of my career. I have been really lucky to coach 2 "All Americans" but one was a Punter/Kicker and one was a Center. Watching the Michigan-Purdue game tonight and having seen many of these kids in high school when they played (not against me directly but just through film etc.), my question for you coaches is, if you ran a "unique" offense like the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Wishbone, Single Wing etc., how would you adapt your system to a special player who could play on this level? With our first All American (kicker/punter) who went on to start at Michigan State for 4 years, we didnt change anything. For our 2nd All American who played center, we still ran the Wing-T but tried to see what he could do in regards to pulling and one-on-one blocks. any smart@$$ answers please send to my messages with a * so I know not to read them , thanks for reading and look forward to reading responses from those who have had a similar experience. Depends what their skill set is, really. Do you magically end up with a stud QB? Are they a WR? I mean, I'd say it 100% depends on what their skill set is.
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