Middle School/Feeder Alignment Importance

If as the HS HFC you have "control" over the MS/JH ("feeder") programs, can hire-fire coaches and dictate what they do scheme-wise, great.

I was HC at six different schools and not once had that situation. Heck, at four of them we didn't even have MS/JH football.

To me "Feeder" programs come under "Organization," i.e. HOW you're going to achieve your on-field Goals-Objectives.

Not "Philosophy."

Program Philosophy is WHY football is offered at the school in an educational sense (what participants can learn from their experience). Your personal philosophy is WHY you coach and perhaps what you have to offer as a coach.

Neither are about winning games or how to do it.

I'll be sure to move it to the correct section.

I think the ability to staff the entire program is huge. Even huger is the fact that the overwhelming majority of our staff still teachers somewhere in district. Still, those coaches have the autonomy to run what is working for them. Some levels run our stuff, others don't.

I won't discount that being able to talk with those coaches is huge, as opposed to other programs where feeders want nothing to do with you.

I really like this 1st paragraph...I have been in several programs ... I give examples of the 2 ends of spectrum... 1st the worst... My hometown had zero alignment for years and were not good at high school level.  Then the HS got to take over complete control of the MS.  I thought this would help... it did not.  While the HS HC had input on who coached and ran program he chose not to put big emphasis on it... middle school had been good in some year but never translated to HS success.  Youth program wasnt ever great but usually had decent numbers... the HC had ZERO to do with it (never came to even watch).  This school has had maybe 3 winning seasons in 30 years...This is definitely not the way to do things... The school I am at now is a small community but it is connected completely... the HC hires MS coaches and runs the program... He has influence on the Youth leagues and the play and practice on our fields... we have walk thru pep rallies where the elementary kids line hallways and players and cheerleaders and band walk thru halls high fiving the little kids... This program while it has never won a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP in football, it is consistently solid & competitive... I believe like said in 1st paragraph... you dont have to dictate every move of younger levels but there HAS to be communication and cooperation

heres my thoughts after being at all 3 levels. Youth (MS)/JV/Varsity.

i dont give a F&ck about "vertical alignment", i dont care what scheme a youth team runs, i dont care what verbiage they use. i care about 3 things:

1) retention, if your MS/Youth program isnt getting 8th grade returners...theres a problem that cant be solved with scheme
2) Love of the game, if they dont love it now, they wont love it when we start really getting after it.
3) competitive drive, if i get a bunch of freshman who love to compete and grind... the rest is easy.

if i get freshman who are bought in, love the game, and love to win at everything... ive got a good 4 years ahead of me.

Having a "Vertically Aligned" program is not absolutely necessary to have a successful HS football program.

However, if you are competing against some that do, you are at a disadvantage.

I think this may be something that depends greatly on the type of community and school size. If you have freshman playing varsity, then I can see the importance of having 8th graders be well versed in your terminology and specific techniques. If not, then you should be able to prep them to your team specifics within a year should be feasible.

That being written, for those of us in more populated areas feeder programs do have a huge importance: recruiting. There are nearly 20 high schools within 10 miles of where I am right now. The smaller private schools have their own middle schools attached, and those serve as feeders for them. But they are not on the same level talent wise as the big public schools. Those big public schools are in competition for the best incoming MS players, one of the ways they do this is by establishing a youth program with your team's name and colors.

You get all those 6'1" 215LB speedy 8th graders to play on your Jr. "Mascot" Pop Warner team, then they are most likely to get them in your HS. And that, more than anything else I have seen, is the main importance of a feeder program.

Absolutely. The actual benefits of integration aren't that big of a deal. What is a big deal is a school district/community having its stuff together and knowing what it takes to win.

Our program is vertically aligned all the way down, I hire all the coaches, tell them what to run, clinic them up, help them plan practices etc. The on-field stuff is a nice benefit but by far the biggest advantage is being able to hire the coaches. One dip$hit at the MS level can really hurt your numbers in HS.

I go out of my way to give those guys a lot of freedom. It has to be fun for them to coach or why would they bother? If they're teaching fundamentals, having fun, and keeping kids out then they're doing the job.

Year 11 in my area, year 8 of alignment, Year 5 of play offs….correlation or causation? 

Things that MS programs have to do:

Keep kids in the program/involved with the game
Teach fundamentals well (block/tackle being most important)

After that maybe some scheme or terminology.

I guess in an ideal world they would do everything the same as the HS teams. But as always things change year to year, new systems are installed, coaches change, etc.

You can invest a few years at that level then BOOM! HS changes system, new HC comes in, new OC/DC that's why you focus on keeping kids in the program and teaching them the fundamentals. Do that and you will be successful

Idk if the youth levels need to be schematically aligned with the varsity because the varsity scheme/staff can and do change but imo youth Offenses need to incorporate all positions: TE, WR, blocking RB, etc. I don't like Full House double tight youth teams, and I dont like Spread youth teams.

Teach the kids various positions and utilize all body types/skill sets.

As wingtol said keep them involved and teaching them to block and tackle are most important

I think it is extremely arrogant to think “no one gets fired over MS games,” because in some places, you can and will. MS can have a lot of drama from parents involved, especially from the crazy ones whose kids will likely never play past 9th grade.

This is all contextual to where you are and the culture of the area. If you come in there hard charging in a place where the MS coach has been around 10 years, he not only has probably been pretty successful but he also probably has a lot of relatives of former players in their community who know and like him more than you.

If that is the case, this guy is probably a pretty good coach and an overall asset you want to cultivate a relationship with. Letting him do his thing is probably not the worst idea. If he dislikes you, it will lead to issues you’ll be dealing with for a while.

If that is not the case and you go to a place where the MS really is treated and managed as a “feeder system,” then this is already in place for you so you don’t need to worry too much. Be cool to the dudes at the MS following your directions.

If you’re walking into somewhere that has traditionally sucked and are trying to force this change as a way to build… in today’s climate, I honestly feel like this isn’t a battle worth fighting in year 1. Focus on being cool to the MS coaches and trying to coax them into your stuff, then if the staff changes, put “your guy” in charge who’ll do things your way. It’s freaking hard to get MS coaches these days in many places, so don’t piss off the ones who want to help,

It certainly doesn’t hurt to have that kind of integration and control, and generally the teams I know who have it tend to do pretty well, but if you’re taking over a loser you’ve got bigger battles to fight than what schemes the MS run.

IMO, if the HS HC and his staff can’t teach them new stuff to play at the required level within a year, they don’t deserve to run a HS program in the first place. If that limits what the varsity coach can do, then he needs to check his ego. What does he do when an upperclassman comes out for the first time?

After coaching in HS a few years now, all I, personally, hope MS football focused on in many places is getting kids out, keeping the game fun, and hopefully teaching good leverage fundamentals. If the MS staff can do that, you are getting a gift from the football gods already and you probably shouldn’t push your luck too hard.

IMO, the feeder system is mostly useful to get kids acclimated to the contact of the game and (hopefully) get them lifting and excited about playing for the HS someday.

When you have a program with no feeder system, or almost no feeder system, it does make for some uphill battles in getting the foundation established--I've coached in places like that and speak from experience.

A couple of years in a good MS weight program can get 8th graders about as strong as typical 10th graders in programs where they don't start lifting until HS.

There are plenty of bad MS and youth coaches who turn kids off to football or teach or reinforce bad habits, though.

You lose kids because your fun does not replace players just not getting better, not seeing any noticeable difference, and as they go on, they get passed by athletes…and athletes who are not doing it the right way, the rules really do not apply. And all those kids are just tackling dummies.