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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 9, 2022 13:13:28 GMT -6
A common saying is we carry X, Y, Z into a game, *to me* that means they are repping those concepts the most in practice that week, and spend very few reps if any on concepts they are not carrying into the game that week.
How many reps if any do you like to spend on concepts you are NOT carrying into the game that week so that the players don't get rusty and continue to get better at that them for when you do need them? 2, maybe 3 reps tops across the whole week?
Paging @coacharnold lol, definitely want to hear your input on this as you have a very specific, developed practice reps rubric and plan as far as how many reps you can get into a practice, how many reps at minimum it takes to become competent at a concept, etc.
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Post by raider92 on Nov 9, 2022 14:22:37 GMT -6
We're a wing t team and carry everything into every game. We do however look at how much we call certain plays and try to ensure our reps reflect that.
For example, we often call bucksweep 25+ times in a game but will only run belly sweep 2-3x. We shouldnt practice them equally.
If I weren't carrying every concept into every game I'd probably just go for it and only practice the stuff we are going to run. If it's that important that you re-install it later in the year then itll be worth the time to refresh the kids memories and if it's not worth that time investment then it probably isnt worth running
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 9, 2022 15:25:52 GMT -6
The fewer things you do, the more time you have to rep everything, and the more proficient you are at what you do.
That's why Wing-T guys do Wing-T, although they are more of an "if-then" type of offense than are we.
We are primarily a run team from the Pro-I formation. We attack outside, off tackle, and middle. We can hit those 3 areas in 5 different ways (straight thrusts and mis-direction/counter) including options.
Each has a PAP from that action. We can execute each play into either an Odd or an Even defense. We use a count and track blocking system (SAB) so Even or Odd fronts have no surprises for us.
We carry everything into each game because we can rep everything during the week.
The only time we're ever surprised is if the defense mis-aligns itself.
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 9, 2022 15:58:52 GMT -6
The fewer things you do, the more time you have to rep everything, and the more proficient you are at what you do. That's why Wing-T guys do Wing-T, although they are more of an "if-then" type of offense than are we. We are primarily a run team from the Pro-I formation. We attack outside, off tackle, and middle. We can hit those 3 areas in 5 different ways (straight thrusts and mis-direction/counter) including options. Each has a PAP from that action. We can execute each play into either an Odd or an Even defense. We use a count and track blocking system (SAB) so Even or Odd fronts have no surprises for us. We carry everything into each game because we can rep everything during the week. The only time we're ever surprised is if the defense mis-aligns itself. Are you similar on the defensive side of the ball? I.e. you carry everything into every game |
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 9, 2022 17:31:24 GMT -6
The fewer things you do, the more time you have to rep everything, and the more proficient you are at what you do. That's why Wing-T guys do Wing-T, although they are more of an "if-then" type of offense than are we. We are primarily a run team from the Pro-I formation. We attack outside, off tackle, and middle. We can hit those 3 areas in 5 different ways (straight thrusts and mis-direction/counter) including options. Each has a PAP from that action. We can execute each play into either an Odd or an Even defense. We use a count and track blocking system (SAB) so Even or Odd fronts have no surprises for us. We carry everything into each game because we can rep everything during the week. The only time we're ever surprised is if the defense mis-aligns itself. Are you similar on the defensive side of the ball? I.e. you carry everything into every game Yes. But we don't have that much! We run 30 TITE, 3 Safety, 2 Level model. BTW, a lot of that is from our variations of the defense we've put in (or eliminated) along the way. Easy to install and for the kids to understand. Uncomplicated and nothing fancy. Geared for H.S. kids so most of the calls can be made on the field. REALLY! Nothing Saban...although we do have RIP/LIZ in our back pocket. The only wrinkle we have is on occasion, (because of how we teach our underneath coverage), we'll occasionally get double coverage on a receiver which wasn't called. Not often, but I notice it. We have to tweak that in the off season. |
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Post by bignose on Nov 9, 2022 17:50:05 GMT -6
In 2010 we were in the playoffs, and the first two rounds were against teams in our league that we had lost to earlier in the season.
We had a couple of "special wrinkles" for them, mostly formations and a few plays, that they hadn't seen before. We played well, and won both games.
But as we got into the third round we were playing teams we hadn't seen much before, so we decided to drop about 1/3 of the playbook to concentrate on plays we regularly relied on.
These were plays that we had repped up all season, and had only to adjust blocking assignments to the specific defense we knew we were going to see.
Important late in the season when you are pressed for daylight.
That late in the season, we needed to spend little time on individual fundamentals in practice and could focus most of our practice time on team offense and defense.
Meanwhile, our opponents had to prepare for everything we showed in the previous couple of weeks, even though we had no intent or need to run them.
It certainly simplified what we brought into the games.
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Post by agap on Nov 9, 2022 18:39:02 GMT -6
Defensively, we only practice what we plan on running that week. There are a few times when we'll call something that we didn't practice that week, but it has to be something we've done earlier in the season. We'll never call something we haven't repped at some point. We also won't call something that we last repped during camp or a long time before the game.
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 9, 2022 18:51:38 GMT -6
I totally read the title a different way.....
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Post by raider92 on Nov 9, 2022 19:52:17 GMT -6
This is actually a pretty big deal for us as a Wing T team. Its a great system but is rep intensive because we really have to carry the whole package in order for us to have all the answers we need. We usually carry;
Bucksweep, buck trap, down, wedge, power, counter, belly, belly sweep, belly tackle trap, jet sweep, waggle, power pass, buck pass, and a sprintout package. We also run some outside veer but dont read it. Its a lot of recycled techniques and we flip the OL so it cuts things in half but it's still a lot to get ripped. we have had to be very cognizant of ensuring our reps in practice are proportional to what we actually call.
We find that when we win our play calls are usually 80+% bucksweep, trap, waggle, power, counter, and wedge. Against tougher opponents we end up having to get into our red/blue stuff and run more jet sweep, sprintout and also run more belly series stuff from 100/900. We've tried to be more conscious about actually rapping that stuff in the appropriate proportion.
For a team with fewer schemes to rep it may not be a big deal but for us it is really important.
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Post by s73 on Nov 9, 2022 20:07:50 GMT -6
I totally read the title a different way..... My first thought was.."Where do you coach where u need to carry?" LOL |
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 9, 2022 20:56:32 GMT -6
I totally read the title a different way..... My first thought was.."Where do you coach where u need to carry?" LOL The way society is going probably more than a few places |
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 9, 2022 20:56:49 GMT -6
I totally read the title a different way..... Lol |
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 9, 2022 23:03:02 GMT -6
We're a wing t team and carry everything into every game. We do however look at how much we call certain plays and try to ensure our reps reflect that. For example, we often call bucksweep 25+ times in a game but will only run belly sweep 2-3x. We shouldnt practice them equally. If I weren't carrying every concept into every game I'd probably just go for it and only practice the stuff we are going to run. If it's that important that you re-install it later in the year then itll be worth the time to refresh the kids memories and if it's not worth that time investment then it probably isnt worth running This is my love/hate with the Wing-T. I bring the whole damn toolbox into the game and use like... 4 of them. It's also what makes scouting the Wing-T so frustrating some times, there's no tendencies besides 'run what works'. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 10, 2022 6:57:09 GMT -6
A common saying is we carry X, Y, Z into a game, *to me* that means they are repping those concepts the most in practice that week, and spend very few reps if any on concepts they are not carrying into the game that week. Would I be correct to guess that this is more commonly a defensive practice than an offensive one? |
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Post by CS on Nov 10, 2022 7:47:29 GMT -6
We bring everything and get tons of reps
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 8:41:12 GMT -6
When coaches say "we'll carry X number of things into a game," what that means to me is that they have their core stuff they KNOW they'll carry every week, and then they're giving themselves a little room to either bring something back that they installed earlier *or* they may find they need to put in something new for that week (maybe a formation, tag, blitz, coverage, front, or even a play) on top of the old stuff.
My philosophy is that you install all the stuff you want to install in camp, then you look at it, work on it, and after a week or two you start cutting out the things that aren't working or are more trouble than they're worth before the season even starts.
That means that whatever is left is generally the stuff you expect to carry into each game. If it's not expected to be used that week, there's usually not much point in practicing it at all.
With all of that said, you might have some weird situations here and there where you practice stuff to prep for an opponent you know you're facing down the road, but not that week. For example, if you have a bad spread team that week that you are certain you'll beat easily doing your basic stuff, but there's a good Wing-T or Double Wing team 2-3 weeks down the road you'll have to beat, you may want to carve out some periods there to start prepping for that future opponent.
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 10, 2022 10:20:37 GMT -6
A common saying is we carry X, Y, Z into a game, *to me* that means they are repping those concepts the most in practice that week, and spend very few reps if any on concepts they are not carrying into the game that week. Would I be correct to guess that this is more commonly a defensive practice than an offensive one? I've seen it with both, but yes, I would say it's probably more a defensive mindset because defense, at least overall, is by nature reactionary, and has to adjust to whatever the offense does, whereas offense can much more afford to hang their hat on something and say "This is what we are doing, come hell or high water" |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 10, 2022 11:12:01 GMT -6
When coaches say "we'll carry X number of things into a game," what that means to me is that they have their core stuff they KNOW they'll carry every week, and then they're giving themselves a little room to either bring something back that they installed earlier *or* they may find they need to put in something new for that week (maybe a formation, tag, blitz, coverage, front, or even a play) on top of the old stuff. My philosophy is that you install all the stuff you want to install in camp, then you look at it, work on it, and after a week or two you start cutting out the things that aren't working or are more trouble than they're worth before the season even starts. This. We have our core stuff and then wrinkles every week off of some of that stuff. The wrinkles just depend on scout film. Also agree on installing in camp and then narrowing down your focus a bit. Best example here is we said we wanted to run spot/snag, but found our QB wasn't great at it for whatever reason, and we weren't making it a priority to rep it enough anyway so it's out for now. |
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Post by realdawg on Nov 10, 2022 12:40:44 GMT -6
For us, it is more about formations, shifts, and motions, we havent added any new blocking schemes in quiet some time, kind of the same thing on defense. What do we do or have that is good to what they like to do on O. Maybe a new check or two to something different.
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center
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Post by center on Nov 10, 2022 13:13:09 GMT -6
The fewer things you do, the more time you have to rep everything, and the more proficient you are at what you do. That's why Wing-T guys do Wing-T, although they are more of an "if-then" type of offense than are we. We are primarily a run team from the Pro-I formation. We attack outside, off tackle, and middle. We can hit those 3 areas in 5 different ways (straight thrusts and mis-direction/counter) including options. Each has a PAP from that action. We can execute each play into either an Odd or an Even defense. We use a count and track blocking system (SAB) so Even or Odd fronts have no surprises for us. We carry everything into each game because we can rep everything during the week. The only time we're ever surprised is if the defense mis-aligns itself. What plays do you run to attack these areas? |
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Post by carookie on Nov 10, 2022 14:39:55 GMT -6
I've always been someone who tries to install everything (or darn near everything before the season), but we focus more heavily on certain things that are more pertinent to a weekly opponent during that week. This being from a defensive perspective.
That being written, I don't believe we compartmentalize each given week as much as others seem to. For example, things we work on week two in practice still have great carryover to week three, and the subsequent weeks that follow. We are building upwards throughout the season, not constantly rebuilding week to week. Thats why I don't think a singular 'bad week of practice' is as strictly indicative of having a bad game that specific week. At least as much as others imply.
Thats also why we will continue to practice various techniques and assignments during a week that may not correlate specifically to that weeks opponent. For example, we will still work on covering spread offenses a bit during a week that we are matched up against a 22 personnel team that runs lead and power all day. We may not do it as much, but we still want to stay proficient in that skillset.
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 10, 2022 14:41:33 GMT -6
The fewer things you do, the more time you have to rep everything, and the more proficient you are at what you do. That's why Wing-T guys do Wing-T, although they are more of an "if-then" type of offense than are we. We are primarily a run team from the Pro-I formation. We attack outside, off tackle, and middle. We can hit those 3 areas in 5 different ways (straight thrusts and mis-direction/counter) including options. Each has a PAP from that action. We can execute each play into either an Odd or an Even defense. We use a count and track blocking system (SAB) so Even or Odd fronts have no surprises for us. We carry everything into each game because we can rep everything during the week. The only time we're ever surprised is if the defense mis-aligns itself. What plays do you run to attack these areas? Family #1: Toss-Sweep, IZ, Zone Stretch, Move-out Pass Pro. Family #2: Wedge, Iso, all pass protections except Move-Out, Double Options. Family #3: Quick trap, Counter-trap, GEO (double) Trap. Family #4: Misdirection Counter GT weak, Power weak. Family #5: Power Strong, Counter GT strong. |
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center
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Post by center on Nov 11, 2022 8:34:45 GMT -6
Family #1: Toss-Sweep, IZ, Zone Stretch, Move-out Pass Pro.
Family #2: Wedge, Iso, all pass protections except Move-Out, Double Options.
Family #3: Quick trap, Counter-trap, GEO (double) Trap.
Family #4: Misdirection Counter GT weak, Power weak.
Family #5: Power Strong, Counter GT strong.
Are they grouped this way because their teaching is similar? Or similar point of attack?
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Post by coachcb on Nov 11, 2022 9:52:12 GMT -6
We bring all of it but it's always a small tool box. We'll add formations and motions but the plays were installed back in August. I think we tossed in a new tackle-over look almost every week this season. Some defenses were having a hard time adjusting so we tried to keep them on their toes. We may toss in a simple wrinkle but it won't involve any new blocking schemes or be time-intensive.
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 11, 2022 21:23:29 GMT -6
Family #1: Toss-Sweep, IZ, Zone Stretch, Move-out Pass Pro.
Family #2: Wedge, Iso, all pass protections except Move-Out, Double Options.
Family #3: Quick trap, Counter-trap, GEO (double) Trap.
Family #4: Misdirection Counter GT weak, Power weak.
Family #5: Power Strong, Counter GT strong.Are they grouped this way because their teaching is similar? Or similar point of attack? They're grouped like this because the blocking in each family, and for each play in that family, is the same. E.g. All plays in family #1 are blocked the same, because all plays in that family take the ball outside. POA. Plays that take the ball off-tackle are blocked the same (family 4 weak or family 5 strong) because we're going off-tackle. There may be different backfield actions, or formation, but the blocking is the same for that family of plays. Again, POA. |
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Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 14, 2022 9:57:16 GMT -6
I know you cant rep everything every day, but no way am I gonna spend time installing a play and repping it at all & then say nope not "carrying that play this week"... I am obviously going to rep what I think will work best from watching film. However, if I get in the game and something presents itself as possibly working no way I'm gonna not try it. I want to work the majority of my plays or concepts daily... but not all in team. I know some guys that have mindset that if they didn't rep play "x" out of formation "y" then we cant run it that way on Friday. Practices & your system should be set up where players are comfortable running your stuff with a few minor adjustments. If they are not, then your not gonna be very good anyway or you need to adjust how you do things.
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