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Post by 19delta on Oct 24, 2022 19:15:41 GMT -6
Matt Patricia was the DC in New England under Bill Belechik. It appears that he is calling the offense tonight. His official title is "Senior Football Advisor/Offensive Line Coach".
How common is it for a guy who was an NFL DC to move over to the offense?
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 24, 2022 20:13:15 GMT -6
He was never the DC, but McDaniels started as a defensive guy in New England.
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Post by wingtol on Oct 25, 2022 5:05:02 GMT -6
I'm guessing at those upper levels the guys know football pretty good and can coach both sides of the ball if need be. Now with that being said seems like the Pat's arrogance from years of dominance are finally catching up with them. I enjoyed watching them dominate all those years but now the smartest guys in the room aren't so smart even though they still think they are.
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Post by MICoach on Oct 25, 2022 6:16:05 GMT -6
I'm guessing at those upper levels the guys know football pretty good and can coach both sides of the ball if need be. Now with that being said seems like the Pat's arrogance from years of dominance are finally catching up with them. I enjoyed watching them dominate all those years but now the smartest guys in the room aren't so smart even though they still think they are. Or maybe Patricia isn't that good of an upper level coach, whose primary claim to fame came from being the DC-in-name-only under Belichick. Maybe he shouldn't be calling an NFL offense...just maybe. Signed, A Disgruntled Lions Fan |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 25, 2022 6:22:00 GMT -6
I'm guessing at those upper levels the guys know football pretty good and can coach both sides of the ball if need be. Now with that being said seems like the Pat's arrogance from years of dominance are finally catching up with them. I enjoyed watching them dominate all those years but now the smartest guys in the room aren't so smart even though they still think they are. I think they're still the smartest guys in the room, they're just maybe not the GMs they think they are. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 25, 2022 6:23:53 GMT -6
I'm guessing at those upper levels the guys know football pretty good and can coach both sides of the ball if need be. Now with that being said seems like the Pat's arrogance from years of dominance are finally catching up with them. I enjoyed watching them dominate all those years but now the smartest guys in the room aren't so smart even though they still think they are. Or maybe Patricia isn't that good of an upper level coach, whose primary claim to fame came from being the DC-in-name-only under Belichick. Maybe he shouldn't be calling an NFL offense...just maybe. Signed, A Disgruntled Lions Fan Maybe, just maybe, the Lions are just the Lions... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 25, 2022 7:38:26 GMT -6
Something else to keep in mind - in the NFL, coaches are much more like partners in a collaborative effort with the players than than lower levels.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 25, 2022 9:09:09 GMT -6
Something else to keep in mind - in the NFL, coaches are much more like partners in a collaborative effort with the players than than lower levels. It's hard to imagine that is the situation in New England |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 25, 2022 9:32:23 GMT -6
Matt Patricia was the DC in New England under Bill Belechik. It appears that he is calling the offense tonight. His official title is "Senior Football Advisor/Offensive Line Coach". How common is it for a guy who was an NFL DC to move over to the offense?
I don't know how common it is but I don't imagine it's a difficult transition. He's spent years calling a defense against a variety NFL offenses so the Xs and Os shouldn't be an issue. He also knows enough to take over an NFL OL which is huge. And, he has assistants who are well-versed in their positions.
At the high school level, I've seen DCs take overs offenses fairly seamlessly. However, the flip-side of that coin has been hit or miss. OCs taking over defenses has proven to be problematic at times. IME, they're used to the "task" orientation of offense; "you line up here and here's your job." They can struggle with the reaction aspect of defense. IME, These DCs tend to try and solve problems with Xs and Os (fronts, blitzes, twists, new coverages, etc..etc..). Sometimes it works, sometimes it crashes and burns.
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moose18
Junior Member
"If it didn't matter who won or lost, they wouldn't keep score"
Posts: 286
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Post by moose18 on Oct 25, 2022 9:36:42 GMT -6
Juan Castillo went from OL coach to DC in Philadelphia about 10 years ago or so.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 25, 2022 9:47:20 GMT -6
Juan Castillo went from OL coach to DC in Philadelphia about 10 years ago or so. Did he even make it an entire year? I thought Reid made a change pretty quickly. I’m OL and DC so that one intrigued me at the time but it’s been many moons. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 25, 2022 12:44:36 GMT -6
I've done both, and I'm nothing special
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Post by blb on Oct 25, 2022 13:09:19 GMT -6
Or maybe Patricia isn't that good of an upper level coach, whose primary claim to fame came from being the DC-in-name-only under Belichick. Maybe he shouldn't be calling an NFL offense...just maybe. Signed, A Disgruntled Lions Fan Maybe, just maybe, the Lions are just the Lions... This should not be a "fan boy" board. But a friend of mine (HOF HS coach, long-time Lions fan) maintains the Lions will not be a legitimate, competitive NFL franchise until the Ford family sells the team. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 25, 2022 17:19:59 GMT -6
Something else to keep in mind - in the NFL, coaches are much more like partners in a collaborative effort with the players than than lower levels. It's hard to imagine that is the situation in New England I don't know. Brady and McDaniels worked together a lot. In the behind the scenes stuff you see of their practices and such, Belichick is far less dictoral than the image is portrayed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 17:37:48 GMT -6
Matt Patricia was the DC in New England under Bill Belechik. It appears that he is calling the offense tonight. His official title is "Senior Football Advisor/Offensive Line Coach". How common is it for a guy who was an NFL DC to move over to the offense? I can see a scenario where that works. BB is one of a few guys who i can believe thinks that way as well. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 25, 2022 17:39:07 GMT -6
I've done both, and I'm nothing special Me as well. I did both as a HC. Spent 7 years as a HC/OC and 2 years as a HC/DC. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 25, 2022 17:39:50 GMT -6
Maybe, just maybe, the Lions are just the Lions... This should not be a "fan boy" board. But a friend of mine (HOF HS coach, long-time Lions fan) maintains the Lions will not be a legitimate, competitive NFL franchise until the Ford family sells the team. Agreed. I meant to put a smiley face, but forgot. It was a long night at work last night. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 25, 2022 18:12:17 GMT -6
It's hard to imagine that is the situation in New England I don't know. Brady and McDaniels worked together a lot. In the behind the scenes stuff you see of their practices and such, Belichick is far less dictoral than the image is portrayed. I agree with this. While the Patriot way is definitely not a player run situation, i still think their coaches have a much different relationship with the players than at lower levels. If for no other reason than many of the players have 7+years experience, are grown men, and are often getting paid more (in many cases, significantly more) than their coach. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 25, 2022 18:23:03 GMT -6
I don't know. Brady and McDaniels worked together a lot. In the behind the scenes stuff you see of their practices and such, Belichick is far less dictoral than the image is portrayed. I agree with this. While the Patriot way is definitely not a player run situation, i still think their coaches have a much different relationship with the players than at lower levels. If for no other reason than many of the players have 7+years experience, are grown men, and are getting paid significantly more than their coach. The mature NFL player knows that that the end result I.E. wins; is the input = out put ($) equation. |
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Post by coachdubyah on Oct 25, 2022 20:20:23 GMT -6
I don’t know where we have this preconceived notion that guys are “just offensive guys” or “just defensive guys”….Im an OC and I find that I actually coordinate a scout defense all week….maybe I’m doing it wrong.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 26, 2022 6:00:41 GMT -6
I don’t know where we have this preconceived notion that guys are “just offensive guys” or “just defensive guys”….Im an OC and I find that I actually coordinate a scout defense all week….maybe I’m doing it wrong. My whole approach to film break down/game prep was try to get into the mind of the OC and figure the how's and why's of his play calling. If you really want to know the mechanics of your defense, you have to know it's weaknesses. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 26, 2022 6:33:49 GMT -6
If you don't intimately understand the workings of the other side of the ball, you're really going to be a bad coordinator.
Unfortunately, there are many OCs who don't understand a lick of defense and vice versa.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 27, 2022 4:49:28 GMT -6
Agreed.
I have coached plenty on both sides of the ball. IMO, coaching defense is harder Saturday-Thursday. Coaching offense is harder on Friday.
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 27, 2022 7:09:41 GMT -6
If you don't intimately understand the workings of the other side of the ball, you're really going to be a bad coordinator. Unfortunately, there are many OCs who don't understand a lick of defense and vice versa. I was extremely nervous about the fact that I was primarily an offensive coach for 18 years before my HC decided he needed me to be the DC. I have found that I sometimes outthink myself because I know what my answers would be to some of the things we do on defense, but have also discovered that having knowledge of those possible adjustments is vital. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 27, 2022 8:14:27 GMT -6
If you don't intimately understand the workings of the other side of the ball, you're really going to be a bad coordinator. Unfortunately, there are many OCs who don't understand a lick of defense and vice versa. I was extremely nervous about the fact that I was primarily an offensive coach for 18 years before my HC decided he needed me to be the DC. I have found that I sometimes outthink myself because I know what my answers would be to some of the things we do on defense, but have also discovered that having knowledge of those possible adjustments is vital. It just allows you to better coach up those holes that are present in every defense. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 27, 2022 10:47:15 GMT -6
Agreed. I have coached plenty on both sides of the ball. IMO, coaching defense is harder Saturday-Thursday. Coaching offense is harder on Friday. why do you think coaching offense is harder on Friday? It seems to me the offense knows the play and what to look for before the play begins |
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CoachK
Sophomore Member
Posts: 185 
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Post by CoachK on Oct 27, 2022 10:57:20 GMT -6
Bill Walsh was a DC for at least a couple years at Cal. In his books he does credit it with helping him learn to attack defenses he saw.
The DC at my first job coached against Stanford during Walsh's first go-round there. He said Walsh knew his rules so well he had to redo the way he lined up against certain formations. Walsh probably would've been legendary either way but it's part of the puzzle, certainly.
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Post by fantom on Oct 27, 2022 14:02:54 GMT -6
Agreed. I have coached plenty on both sides of the ball. IMO, coaching defense is harder Saturday-Thursday. Coaching offense is harder on Friday. why do you think coaching offense is harder on Friday? It seems to me the offense knows the play and what to look for before the play begins On defense if I'm not sure what to call I can always just call "Base" and not be too wrong. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 27, 2022 20:07:09 GMT -6
why do you think coaching offense is harder on Friday? It seems to me the offense knows the play and what to look for before the play begins On defense if I'm not sure what to call I can always just call "Base" and not be too wrong. Base Read was always my first call of the game. Any mostly what was run all night. I was taught early that more the more you have to blitz, the worse you were on defense. |
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Post by jg78 on Oct 28, 2022 16:33:23 GMT -6
On defense, it’s possible to run the same front and coverage for an entire game (and the offense knowing you won’t change) and be effective against comparable talent. On offense, it’s not possible to do that against equal competition. You would have to be vastly superior to score running a FB trap 50 times in a row with the defense knowing it’s coming.
So you naturally have to mix things up a little more on offense.
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