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Post by silkyice on Dec 23, 2022 21:45:50 GMT -6
When a play doesn't work in team offense, and the OC goes "Well that's fine, if that's their defense on Friday I will just run this other play for 600 yards all night" and go onto the next play as if everything is good. I understand. But I also understand the OC - sometimes.
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Post by carookie on Dec 23, 2022 22:34:25 GMT -6
When a play doesn't work in team offense, and the OC goes "Well that's fine, if that's their defense on Friday I will just run this other play for 600 yards all night" and go onto the next play as if everything is good. Why would the OC say "if that's their defense..."? Doesn't the OC tell the scout defense what to run?
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Post by CS on Dec 24, 2022 5:26:23 GMT -6
When a play doesn't work in team offense, and the OC goes "Well that's fine, if that's their defense on Friday I will just run this other play for 600 yards all night" and go onto the next play as if everything is good. Why would the OC say "if that's their defense..."? Doesn't the OC tell the scout defense what to run? That’s what I was thinking
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Post by nicku on Dec 24, 2022 9:21:25 GMT -6
Why would the OC say "if that's their defense..."? Doesn't the OC tell the scout defense what to run? That’s what I was thinking Y'all must have some good scout defenses...
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Post by coachcb on Dec 24, 2022 10:11:24 GMT -6
Grades can be entertaining... My classroom policies are extremely lenient; the kids get full credit for daily work as long as it's complete, I allow them to use homework, notes and handouts I give them on tests and quizzes and they can correct those formal assessments for half credit.
So, their grades are padded, to say the least. Yet, every single semester I have one or two students who fail the class with less than a 10%... One young man is sitting on a glorious 5.5% right now; he's turned in a handful of assignments and has yet to complete a test or a quiz. Funny thing; the kid doesn't miss school. He just sits and stares at the wall all period long. I walk him through the first problem on each assignment, make him work one of them out in front of me and that's all that gets done.
I've contacted mom a few times and her response has always been something along the lines of "He hates math, I'll talk to him."
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Post by CS on Dec 24, 2022 10:38:01 GMT -6
That’s what I was thinking Y'all must have some good scout defenses... I’m usually the scout team defensive coach so I just make sure they’re aligned where they’re supposed to be
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Pet peeves
Dec 24, 2022 13:46:10 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Dec 24, 2022 13:46:10 GMT -6
When a play doesn't work in team offense, and the OC goes "Well that's fine, if that's their defense on Friday I will just run this other play for 600 yards all night" and go onto the next play as if everything is good. Why would the OC say "if that's their defense..."? Doesn't the OC tell the scout defense what to run? I’ve been around and except when I coached college ball all the offensive coordinators I worked with had little concern with the scout team defense. Some were to lazy to make cards. “Eh just get em lined up, you know what they do…” Now when I coached college our head coach knew everything the defense was supposed to do and everywhere all 11 were supposed to be. Once the cards were drawn up wrong and he ripped my ass and the other guy running the scout team. We were like Coach that’s what the card said and he went on a rant about how if we watched film more we would’ve know the card was wrong. A lot of f bombs. I was young and thought it was kind of funny (after we won that week). He was probably a little out of line but I learned a lot from the experience about being prepared and really was glad it happened.
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Pet peeves
Dec 24, 2022 15:12:09 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 24, 2022 15:12:09 GMT -6
Difference in these scenarios is the college guy has 8-10 hours a day to solely worry about his opponents defense. A HS guy gets maybe an hour a day outside his 8 hours of teaching on top of family, meetings, stupid parent contacts, etc.
By 5:00 pm on a Wed, I don't really care if the DT is supposed to be in a 3 or a 2 alignment.
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Pet peeves
Dec 24, 2022 16:17:53 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Dec 24, 2022 16:17:53 GMT -6
When a play doesn't work in team offense, and the OC goes "Well that's fine, if that's their defense on Friday I will just run this other play for 600 yards all night" and go onto the next play as if everything is good. I understand. But I also understand the OC - sometimes. Coach then why would the OC script that play versus that defense and not the one he actually planned on running?
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Pet peeves
Dec 24, 2022 16:20:23 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Dec 24, 2022 16:20:23 GMT -6
Difference in these scenarios is the college guy has 8-10 hours a day to solely worry about his opponents defense. A HS guy gets maybe an hour a day outside his 8 hours of teaching on top of family, meetings, stupid parent contacts, etc. By 5:00 pm on a Wed, I don't really care if the DT is supposed to be in a 3 or a 2 alignment. I understand your point but there’s a difference in trying to be efficient and rolling with things that are little flaws and just not giving a shitt at all. We’ve probably all seen both ways and all the variations in between.
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Pet peeves
Dec 24, 2022 16:54:04 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 24, 2022 16:54:04 GMT -6
Difference in these scenarios is the college guy has 8-10 hours a day to solely worry about his opponents defense. A HS guy gets maybe an hour a day outside his 8 hours of teaching on top of family, meetings, stupid parent contacts, etc. By 5:00 pm on a Wed, I don't really care if the DT is supposed to be in a 3 or a 2 alignment. I understand your point but there’s a difference in trying to be efficient and rolling with things that are little flaws and just not giving a shitt at all. We’ve probably all seen both ways and all the variations in between. I was actually kind of happy when a scout team would line up weird as we were such a contrarian offense to what was in our area (we were an I team) that we never saw what was on film. We had to be adept at adjusting our blocking on the fly to be able to move the ball.
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Post by fantom on Dec 24, 2022 17:52:54 GMT -6
Difference in these scenarios is the college guy has 8-10 hours a day to solely worry about his opponents defense. A HS guy gets maybe an hour a day outside his 8 hours of teaching on top of family, meetings, stupid parent contacts, etc. By 5:00 pm on a Wed, I don't really care if the DT is supposed to be in a 3 or a 2 alignment. So, as a DC I draw scout cards and write the scripts in accordance to what the opponent has shown in various situations but the OC doesn't have time to line up the defense?
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 24, 2022 21:55:09 GMT -6
I "run" the scout D, but the OC scripts the whole thing, I'm just responsible for communicating it to the scout kids. I'm positive there are times where I've miscommunicated to the kids and given the wrong look to the offense. That might be a scenario where the OC did his job and would still tell the kids "don't worry we won't run that play if they line up like that, we'll run XYZ..."
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Post by nicku on Dec 24, 2022 23:48:37 GMT -6
Can't speak for everyone, but a lot of times, we are better off going against cones or dummies lined up in the right spot than a scout team.
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Post by bluboy on Dec 25, 2022 6:36:39 GMT -6
"I "run" the scout D, but the OC scripts the whole thing, I'm just responsible for communicating it to the scout kids...." We try to get "the best" kids on scout defense without putting defensive starters there for the entire period. Here are the issues we run into: 1. Scout kids can't read pictures. O-line coach draws-up every front according to the script. We show to scout team; they still misalign. 2. Some kids who don't play defense(especially in secondary) have to play defense and really don't know what to do. Have to be told what to do every play. 3. After I catch MAJOR HEAT, I finally get Joey to align and react correctly, Joey is MIA from practice or has a dermatologist appointment. Now, we have to start all over again with Rufus. IMHO, running the scout defense is a form of football coaching purgatory.....
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Post by silkyice on Dec 25, 2022 7:11:08 GMT -6
I understand. But I also understand the OC - sometimes. Coach then why would the OC script that play versus that defense and not the one he actually planned on running? Went against my better instincts and got lazy on my post. This is WAY too long. Sorry. It really is more about the defender’s technique and/or reactions. Out scout team lines up exactly how they are supposed to. But two things still happen. 1) it is tough to get someone to change their technique. For instance, you have been teaching this kid for years to squeeze down blocks. But this team has this defender that comes upfield. Hard to get that scout to simulate that each play. Or worse, the reverse. Ha. Or you run out of decent guys and the scout d lineman doesn’t move or at all or backs up and you run influence trap. Well influence trap looks like crap. 2) The vast vast majority of the time going against our scout d we just line up and I yell the play out and we run it. Too many times players just completely play the play. I get it. In some ways, it is better by making it tougher on us. No worries there. But sometimes it is just annoying when they stop a play that they have no business stopping and your scheme doesn’t even account for that guy. For instance, sprint counter draw. We don’t even block the backside LB. The guy who we are sprinting out towards. But our scout team LB’s always make that play. That guy is never near the play in games. When we huddle in practice and run it, that guy is no where near it. But when I call it out, he is just there. No big deal EXCEPT, we delay wrap a guy and that messes up who he blocks which messes us up during the games. So I have to spend time yelling at the kid to not play the play call and then rerun the play, etc. It has gotten so bad that I have told him and the team that I would buy him a hot dog if a LB ever makes that play in a real game. Lifetime warranty. Told him that if a LB in 20 years makes that play in a game, I am finding out where he lives and delivering that hot dog. Ok, way to long. That is why I went with a short reply. Ha
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Post by CS on Dec 25, 2022 7:33:11 GMT -6
Can't speak for everyone, but a lot of times, we are better off going against cones or dummies lined up in the right spot than a scout team. We go exclusively against bags
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Pet peeves
Dec 25, 2022 10:04:06 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Dec 25, 2022 10:04:06 GMT -6
Coach then why would the OC script that play versus that defense and not the one he actually planned on running? Went against my better instincts and got lazy on my post. This is WAY too long. Sorry. It really is more about the defender’s technique and/or reactions. Out scout team lines up exactly how they are supposed to. But two things still happen. 1) it is tough to get someone to change their technique. For instance, you have been teaching this kid for years to squeeze down blocks. But this team has this defender that comes upfield. Hard to get that scout to simulate that each play. Or worse, the reverse. Ha. Or you run out of decent guys and the scout d lineman doesn’t move or at all or backs up and you run influence trap. Well influence trap looks like crap. 2) The vast vast majority of the time going against our scout d we just line up and I yell the play out and we run it. Too many times players just completely play the play. I get it. In some ways, it is better by making it tougher on us. No worries there. But sometimes it is just annoying when they stop a play that they have no business stopping and your scheme doesn’t even account for that guy. For instance, sprint counter draw. We don’t even block the backside LB. The guy who we are sprinting out towards. But our scout team LB’s always make that play. That guy is never near the play in games. When we huddle in practice and run it, that guy is no where near it. But when I call it out, he is just there. No big deal EXCEPT, we delay wrap a guy and that messes up who he blocks which messes us up during the games. So I have to spend time yelling at the kid to not play the play call and then rerun the play, etc. It has gotten so bad that I have told him and the team that I would buy him a hot dog if a LB ever makes that play in a real game. Lifetime warranty. Told him that if a LB in 20 years makes that play in a game, I am finding out where he lives and delivering that hot dog. Ok, way to long. That is why I went with a short reply. Ha I get it for sure. We try to leave these notes on the script to make sure someone reminds that kid. We will intentionally draw what we want him to do as well. Still doesn’t work a lot of the time though so maybe I need to offer them a hotdog as well. In the case of the well prepared OC we are on the same page.
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 25, 2022 13:48:05 GMT -6
to pile on the scout team thread.... From the scout D perspective:
We have an AC who is the designated opponent DC. The OC makes the script and he has to match up defensive fronts/stunts/blitzes/coverages based on film. They do converse on the particulars, but that AC sets up the opposing defense for that script (team, perimeter, 7-7, inside) and occasionally the OC will ask for something specific. The HC will over view both sides and tweak things per HC privilege.
Cut ups are made by the HC of those looks for each day and ACs as well as players are expected to to watch that 5 minutes before practice. That way the ACs can coach up their players for the particulars of who the opposition plays the look -- I.E. cover 4 presnap at 8 yards versus 10 yards, DEs running up field, etc....
During these O team periods the OC, HC, ACDC run those periods along with a WR AC and another D AC (HC=DBs, OC=OL, ACDC=LB). The rest of the staff is working with the JV/Frosh kids on another field. And the random ACs working with the varsity rotate each day.
Yes we have a huge staff, but this system was used by the HC at a much smaller school.
So basically the HC has been a DB/DC before, so he really runs the scout team, but the leg work is done by that AC DC and the random Def AC has to fill in the gaps.
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Post by silkyice on Dec 25, 2022 16:45:18 GMT -6
Went against my better instincts and got lazy on my post. This is WAY too long. Sorry. It really is more about the defender’s technique and/or reactions. Out scout team lines up exactly how they are supposed to. But two things still happen. 1) it is tough to get someone to change their technique. For instance, you have been teaching this kid for years to squeeze down blocks. But this team has this defender that comes upfield. Hard to get that scout to simulate that each play. Or worse, the reverse. Ha. Or you run out of decent guys and the scout d lineman doesn’t move or at all or backs up and you run influence trap. Well influence trap looks like crap. 2) The vast vast majority of the time going against our scout d we just line up and I yell the play out and we run it. Too many times players just completely play the play. I get it. In some ways, it is better by making it tougher on us. No worries there. But sometimes it is just annoying when they stop a play that they have no business stopping and your scheme doesn’t even account for that guy. For instance, sprint counter draw. We don’t even block the backside LB. The guy who we are sprinting out towards. But our scout team LB’s always make that play. That guy is never near the play in games. When we huddle in practice and run it, that guy is no where near it. But when I call it out, he is just there. No big deal EXCEPT, we delay wrap a guy and that messes up who he blocks which messes us up during the games. So I have to spend time yelling at the kid to not play the play call and then rerun the play, etc. It has gotten so bad that I have told him and the team that I would buy him a hot dog if a LB ever makes that play in a real game. Lifetime warranty. Told him that if a LB in 20 years makes that play in a game, I am finding out where he lives and delivering that hot dog. Ok, way to long. That is why I went with a short reply. Ha I get it for sure. We try to leave these notes on the script to make sure someone reminds that kid. We will intentionally draw what we want him to do as well. Still doesn’t work a lot of the time though so maybe I need to offer them a hotdog as well. Hahahaha We are trying to crank out three plus plays a minute, so we don't have time to show cards. We can try and yell out a reminder. Works sometimes. It really is wild how you are better as a team when the scout team is better. I think actually the reverse might be true. When you are good, your scout team is better. Of course not 100%, but does seem to be decently accurate. The reason is that when you are good you have better players and more of those better players. Duh. But that means that your above average players are now scout team players. And that they might actually be experienced or even starters on the other side. So they give better looks. Much better looks. And that helps you get better.
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Post by Defcord on Dec 25, 2022 18:58:54 GMT -6
I get it for sure. We try to leave these notes on the script to make sure someone reminds that kid. We will intentionally draw what we want him to do as well. Still doesn’t work a lot of the time though so maybe I need to offer them a hotdog as well. Hahahaha We are trying to crank out three plus plays a minute, so we don't have time to show cards. We can try and yell out a reminder. Works sometimes. It really is wild how you are better as a team when the scout team is better. I think actually the reverse might be true. When you are good, your scout team is better. Of course not 100%, but does seem to be decently accurate. The reason is that when you are good you have better players and more of those better players. Duh. But that means that your above average players are now scout team players. And that they might actually be experienced or even starters on the other side. So they give better looks. Much better looks. And that helps you get better. All makes sense to me. But if we got three plays a minute I wouldn’t know what to do with my free time after practice. We are hoping to hit 12 plays in a ten minute period.
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Post by tripsclosed on Feb 28, 2023 17:20:20 GMT -6
This one has probably already been mentioned in this thread, but coaches who in coaching clinics/podcasts/Zoom chats that refer to their team's specific names for positions, especially when they are "snazzy"/"cool"/"intimidating. I was listening to a podcast today, and while the material was good, the coach kept referring to a position name in their systen that is an animal name. That drives me insane. When you are coaching your team, call it whatever you want, star, magic, joker, shark, jack, alpha, tiger, whatever. But when you are in a coaching setting talking to other coaches, please for the love of all that is holy refer to them by generic names, like CB, safety, overhang, edge, outside backer, end, etc. One, it sounds goofy, and two, it sometimes impedes ability to understand.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 28, 2023 17:58:06 GMT -6
This one has probably already been mentioned in this thread, but coaches who in coaching clinics/podcasts/Zoom chats that refer to their team's specific names for positions, especially when they are "snazzy"/"cool"/"intimidating. I was listening to a podcast today, and while the material was good, the coach kept referring to a position name in their systen that is an animal name. That drives me insane. When you are coaching your team, call it whatever you want, star, magic, joker, shark, jack, alpha, tiger, whatever. But when you are in a coaching setting talking to other coaches, please for the love of all that is holy refer to them by generic names, like CB, safety, overhang, edge, outside backer, end, etc. One, it sounds goofy, and two, it sometimes impedes ability to understand. We sat in on UGA for 3 days last spring..... In a meeting yesterday, our DC mentioned that it took him a day , in his mind, to translate the terminology.
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Post by fantom on Mar 1, 2023 11:54:17 GMT -6
This one has probably already been mentioned in this thread, but coaches who in coaching clinics/podcasts/Zoom chats that refer to their team's specific names for positions, especially when they are "snazzy"/"cool"/"intimidating. I was listening to a podcast today, and while the material was good, the coach kept referring to a position name in their systen that is an animal name. That drives me insane. When you are coaching your team, call it whatever you want, star, magic, joker, shark, jack, alpha, tiger, whatever. But when you are in a coaching setting talking to other coaches, please for the love of all that is holy refer to them by generic names, like CB, safety, overhang, edge, outside backer, end, etc. One, it sounds goofy, and two, it sometimes impedes ability to understand. Speaking of clinics something that annoys me is when the speaker draws the play upside-down. If we're talking about defense then the defense should be on the bottom. That way when you talk about your left LB he's actually on the left.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 1, 2023 21:38:17 GMT -6
Speaking of scout cards…
I hated using them with the scout team defense when the offensive coaches would draw the cards from the offense’s perspective (with the offensive players drawn on the bottom of the page moving towards the top of the page).
The problem was, when I would hold the cards up to the defense, the kids would have to mentally invert the image and the number of scout team defensive players who could do that was zero. 😂
What I started doing was to get the scout team cards from the OC before practice and then re-draw them from the defense’s perspective. That improved our efficiency tremendously.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 1, 2023 21:39:00 GMT -6
This one has probably already been mentioned in this thread, but coaches who in coaching clinics/podcasts/Zoom chats that refer to their team's specific names for positions, especially when they are "snazzy"/"cool"/"intimidating. I was listening to a podcast today, and while the material was good, the coach kept referring to a position name in their systen that is an animal name. That drives me insane. When you are coaching your team, call it whatever you want, star, magic, joker, shark, jack, alpha, tiger, whatever. But when you are in a coaching setting talking to other coaches, please for the love of all that is holy refer to them by generic names, like CB, safety, overhang, edge, outside backer, end, etc. One, it sounds goofy, and two, it sometimes impedes ability to understand. Speaking of clinics something that annoys me is when the speaker draws the play upside-down. If we're talking about defense then the defense should be on the bottom. That way when you talk about your left LB he's actually on the left. Ha! You beat me to it! 😂
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Post by tripsclosed on Mar 1, 2023 21:57:07 GMT -6
Speaking of scout cards… I hated using them with the scout team defense when the offensive coaches would draw the cards from the offense’s perspective (with the offensive players drawn on the bottom of the page moving towards the top of the page). The problem was, when I would hold the cards up to the defense, the kids would have to mentally invert the image and the number of scout team defensive players who could do that was zero. 😂 What I started doing was to get the scout team cards from the OC before practice and then re-draw them from the defense’s perspective. That improved our efficiency tremendously. Going in the program/general procedures manual on this one "Make sure all scout cards are drawn from the perspective of the players viewing them" It's all the little details like this. One penny ain't much but 100 pennies makes a dollar...
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 1, 2023 22:10:40 GMT -6
Speaking of clinics- a pet peeve of mine is the horrid stench of the men's room at a clinic. I swear if hell smells remotely as bad as one of those places, I better become a monk.
Sweet Jesus some of you could consume some fiber more than once a year. Maybe drink some water, take a walk every now and then. Christ almighty.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 1, 2023 22:12:57 GMT -6
Speaking of scout cards… I hated using them with the scout team defense when the offensive coaches would draw the cards from the offense’s perspective (with the offensive players drawn on the bottom of the page moving towards the top of the page). The problem was, when I would hold the cards up to the defense, the kids would have to mentally invert the image and the number of scout team defensive players who could do that was zero. 😂 What I started doing was to get the scout team cards from the OC before practice and then re-draw them from the defense’s perspective. That improved our efficiency tremendously. Going in the program/general procedures manual on this one "Make sure all scout cards are drawn from the perspective of the players viewing them" It's all the little details like this. One penny ain't much but 100 pennies makes a dollar... Well, we already have it on our program manual on page 1,827. If you'd give me a call I can tell you about how Darrell Royal used to set up his cards and why he was wrong.
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Post by tripsclosed on Mar 1, 2023 22:21:12 GMT -6
Speaking of clinics- a pet peeve of mine is the horrid stench of the men's room at a clinic. I swear if hell smells remotely as bad as one of those places, I better become a monk. Sweet Jesus some of you could consume some fiber more than once a year. Maybe drink some water, take a walk every now and then. Christ almighty. Hahaha. Post of the year candidate and it's only march!
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