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Post by Defcord on Sept 15, 2022 9:43:58 GMT -6
If your half way into his senior season and nobody has reined him in before this there probably isn't anything you can do that's going to change him now. You can win with talent like that but you can lose with kids like that too. Some of my most miserable seasons was spent on teams where the HC was a talent chaser and rules didn't apply to the talented kids because "we need their talent to win". Very rarely did we win on those teams or in those programs. The teams I have been on like this were always great against bad teams and terrible against good teams. It's pure miserable. These teams never overachieve, at least not the ones I have been part of. But I have been on teams where kids and coaches are all on the same page. There's no headaches and everyone is just out there to do their best. These teams have hugely overachieved. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 15, 2022 15:54:13 GMT -6
That's the million dollar question/answer. That's decided by the head man. IMO, there are a couple of times when you need to let a guy go. 1. He does something so wrong that you have to remove him from the team (drugs, tells off a coach, etc.). 2. It becomes so toxic that it affects the team as a whole in a negative way. If the team can survive his toxic attitude and his ability helps the team produce greater results, then you find a way to work with it. You don't really know that unless your there everyday and it can usually be felt.
IMO, it's important to recognize the bullchit from any kid early and head it off. We don't want to get to the tipping point you've described because there will be some damage done to the program before hand. If you're a PITA, there's going to be consequences. Reality, each kid has a job to do and that's what we're looking at. Johnny Football may go above and beyond his job because of his athleticism but there are other kids that will get the job done well enough that we can be successful.
build it vs. fix it |
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Post by joelee on Sept 15, 2022 17:19:45 GMT -6
Hey all. I’m new to the board and could use advice. I’m a young coach. Been doing it for years but have a situation I’m new to and need help. I got a job with a big time prep school this season. Overall I’m doing great but there is one kid I’m having trouble with. He’s a 4 star going to a big time school with a terrible attitude. He sometimes barely tries in practice, and then blames the coaches for things. How do you handle this stuff when yelling and being hard on him doesn’t do it, and the efforts to build rapport haven’t worked? The bench is undefeated. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 15, 2022 18:13:51 GMT -6
If your half way into his senior season and nobody has reined him in before this there probably isn't anything you can do that's going to change him now. You can win with talent like that but you can lose with kids like that too. Some of my most miserable seasons was spent on teams where the HC was a talent chaser and rules didn't apply to the talented kids because "we need their talent to win". Very rarely did we win on those teams or in those programs. I'd rather not deal with the cancers just on principle, and to avoid the irritation. Even more benign stuff like players being unethical after repeatedly warned to stop being so i would have a hard time dealing with. |
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Post by dubber on Sept 15, 2022 22:02:05 GMT -6
Hey all. I’m new to the board and could use advice. I’m a young coach. Been doing it for years but have a situation I’m new to and need help. I got a job with a big time prep school this season. Overall I’m doing great but there is one kid I’m having trouble with. He’s a 4 star going to a big time school with a terrible attitude. He sometimes barely tries in practice, and then blames the coaches for things. How do you handle this stuff when yelling and being hard on him doesn’t do it, and the efforts to build rapport haven’t worked? Sounds like you’ve tried the carrot and the stick…..yelling stick at least. I would ask myself the question “is this hurting the team?”…….if yes, then remove playing time. If not, then swallow your pride. Is he like this with other coaches, or just you? |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 16, 2022 6:14:46 GMT -6
Hey all. I’m new to the board and could use advice. I’m a young coach. Been doing it for years but have a situation I’m new to and need help. I got a job with a big time prep school this season. Overall I’m doing great but there is one kid I’m having trouble with. He’s a 4 star going to a big time school with a terrible attitude. He sometimes barely tries in practice, and then blames the coaches for things. How do you handle this stuff when yelling and being hard on him doesn’t do it, and the efforts to build rapport haven’t worked? The bench is undefeated. Well it hasn't been up against pusssy yet then. |
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Post by s73 on Sept 16, 2022 10:18:44 GMT -6
I haven't had any stars. Does that make me lucky or unlucky (LOL)?
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Post by coachcb on Sept 16, 2022 10:37:04 GMT -6
I haven't had any stars. Does that make me lucky or unlucky (LOL)?
IMO, lucky..... I've worked with some talented kids with an exceptional work ethic and they made coaching fun and easy. And... Then there's been the athletic sloths who make a season miserable, even after you've shown them the door.
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Post by fantom on Sept 16, 2022 11:18:52 GMT -6
I haven't had any stars. Does that make me lucky or unlucky (LOL)? I couldn't keep a straight face if I tried to tell you that I'd rather have average players than great ones. |
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Post by blb on Sept 16, 2022 11:48:19 GMT -6
I haven't had any stars. Does that make me lucky or unlucky (LOL)? I couldn't keep a straight face if I tried to tell you that I'd rather have average players than great ones. In 30 years as a HC I only had one kid offered a D-I scholarship. So that wasn't a problem. But as a HS coach you can still have kids who think that since they're the best on the team or in their class - you can still have similar issues. |
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Post by joelee on Sept 16, 2022 14:10:40 GMT -6
Well it hasn't been up against pusssy yet then. You're right. Different conference. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 16, 2022 15:41:29 GMT -6
I couldn't keep a straight face if I tried to tell you that I'd rather have average players than great ones. In 30 years as a HC I only had one kid offered a D-I scholarship. So that wasn't a problem. But as a HS coach you can still have kids who think that since they're the best on the team or in their class - you can still have similar issues. True but we've gone from how to deal with a star who's a jerk to assuming that stars are jerks. |
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Post by bignose on Sept 16, 2022 15:54:43 GMT -6
Much like in your classroom, you need to try to find a way to reach the most challenging kids. It's part of the job.
However, with a football being a privilege to play rather than a requirement, as a classroom subject is, if you, as a player, are that unwilling to cooperate and participate at the expected level, and continue to be oppositionally defiant, well, I've already got one a$$hole, I don't need another.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 16, 2022 21:41:41 GMT -6
In 30 years as a HC I only had one kid offered a D-I scholarship. So that wasn't a problem. But as a HS coach you can still have kids who think that since they're the best on the team or in their class - you can still have similar issues. True but we've gone from how to deal with a star who's a jerk to assuming that stars are jerks. I have been blessed to have been around Travelle Wharton and Marcus Lattimore, who are the 2 best athletes/stars I have the privilege to coach. Both were absolute studs on the field and better in person. The worst ones I've coached thought they were that good, and then wanted to be turds about it. Being the 'best' is relative to the comparable talent level. |
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Post by wingtol on Sept 17, 2022 5:54:43 GMT -6
So he doesn't try hard and blames the coaches for stuff. Gonna be that guy...does he miss practice? Is he a "cancer" to the team? Does he break team rules? Is he getting it done come game time? Or is he just kind of an a**hole and you're not sure how to deal with him?
Cause honestly some kids are just a**holes and are unlikeable. Doesn't mean they shouldn't play. Lots of people who are great at what they do are unlikeable people. But they do what they are expected to do and get results.
So the kid doesn't go hard in your drills and you get mad. Then he goes out and balls out come game time. What are ya gonna do? Now if he's playing like chit you can tie it back to practice then ya got something. But if he's just better than everyone and doesn't want to go hard in practice....ehhh
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 12:50:28 GMT -6
Some of my most miserable seasons was spent on teams where the HC was a talent chaser and rules didn't apply to the talented kids because "we need their talent to win". Very rarely did we win on those teams or in those programs. The teams I have been on like this were always great against bad teams and terrible against good teams. It's pure miserable. These teams never overachieve, at least not the ones I have been part of. But I have been on teams where kids and coaches are all on the same page. There's no headaches and everyone is just out there to do their best. These teams have hugely overachieved. I played for a coach like that my senior year of HS. He tried to build the program around some athletes who'd been kicked out of a nearby, and much larger, powerhouse. Pretty soon, it became a joke for them that if they got booted off the team at their school, they'd just transfer to ours and start. What happened was that we had a team full of talented individuals--a D1 QB, D1 LB (and conference DPOY), and a (supposed) D1 recruit at TB who transferred in after getting kicked off his team for "inciting a riot" at Burger King... but we just kept shooting ourselves in the foot. When players played poorly, they stayed in the lineup because of their athletic ability. The (supposed) D1 RB set a school record for rushing yards one week against a terrible team and put up incredible highlights... but he also did whatever the heck he wanted, whenever he wanted, including in games. Option pitching the ball on non-option runs, throwing INTs on run plays, diving out of the way of ball carriers as a FS, etc. It was ridiculous... but he had "talent" so he was never held accountable. |
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Post by coachdmyers on Sept 30, 2022 13:05:45 GMT -6
Stop coaching a kid who doesn't want to be coached. If you don't get coached, you can't play. One time I had a kid stand in the corner of the field during practice. He didn't get to rep in drills, or on scout team. He had maybe the worst attitude I've seen on a team.
Another kid who was a legitimate D1 talent, we benched him all the time, including his senior night for skipping practice. I got blowback from his parents like you wouldn't believe, but it was the right thing to do. We lost this kid but we won everyone else.
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Post by trenchdawgs on Oct 5, 2022 18:11:58 GMT -6
I want to thank everyone for the advice. Me and my kid have really gained a strong relationship in the past couple of weeks and things have gotten much better. He comes to me for advice, help, and more.
On top of that, he just recently was named to a big time national all-American game roster. Very proud of him and the progress I - and him- have made.
Thanks all
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 5, 2022 18:20:52 GMT -6
I want to thank everyone for the advice. Me and my kid have really gained a strong relationship in the past couple of weeks and things have gotten much better. He comes to me for advice, help, and more. On top of that, he just recently was named to a big time national all-American game roster. Very proud of him and the progress I - and him- have made. Thanks all Great job Coach!!! In the end it was what you did to create the relationship that grew forward. |
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Post by CS on Oct 5, 2022 18:44:23 GMT -6
Oh, come on! Are you for real?? It means to give some kind of a wake-up, and that is not to baby him. If that's what you meant that's fine, I don't take issue, but I've never known "whomp him up side o' the head" to mean anything other than "hit him in the head." That’s cause you’re a yankee |
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Post by CS on Oct 5, 2022 18:44:41 GMT -6
Well it hasn't been up against pusssy yet then. Absolutely |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Oct 6, 2022 7:04:55 GMT -6
Well it hasn't been up against pusssy yet then. You're right. Different conference. SEC WEST!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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