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Post by blb on Jun 12, 2022 8:34:27 GMT -6
What do you do if opponent had no 2nd and Mediums (or any other specific D&D categories) in games you broke down? Do you change the yardage parameters of D&Ds when offense gets into four-down territory? As far as tendencies - offense may break them because the defense you play is different from previous opponents'. Or they may automatic your "look." So those may be of minimal value come game night. But how would doing what is suggested (using break downs to formulate scripts) make anyone worse off than the alternative ( random offensive scout play vs defense in Team D period) ? Didn't say having a scrupulously scripted plan would make one "worse off," just that I didn't find the time investment worth it. Nor was my method "random." We would take opponent's four best run plays (A-D gaps in that order) and two best PAPs, right and left, and put them on cards. That gave us 12 plays for Team Defense period. We moved the ball from hash to hash each day. On Monday scout offense would have ball on its -30 (defense's +30). We played our straight Base defense so kids could get used to aligning-keying that week's opponent without having to worry about executing stunts etc. Occasionally this also helped us see a weakness we hadn't recognized on film-paper. On Tuesday offense had ball on its +40 and ran same 12 plays plus any "Gadgets" we had seen from opponents. We worked in any stunts or alternate fronts we game planned. If opponents had a play they liked on SY we could call our SYMF defense when that one was due to be run and if not just call it once each hash regardless. Wednesday was "Red Zone" day so scout team had possession on +20. We ran any blitzes we planned on using that day, plus had a GL period. Thursday as with most everybody was review-polish. I was more concerned with kids getting lined up-adjusting to movement and reacting to their keys correctly than with D&D. You can spend (waste?) a lot of time figuring out that on Run situations opponents are going to run Power, Iso, or Sweep, and that on Pass situations they're going to pass. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 12, 2022 8:50:42 GMT -6
But how would doing what is suggested (using break downs to formulate scripts) make anyone worse off than the alternative ( random offensive scout play vs defense in Team D period) ? Didn't say having a scrupulously scripted plan would make one "worse off," just that I didn't find the time investment worth it. Nor was my method "random." We would take opponent's four best run plays (A-D gaps in that order) and two best PAPs, right and left, and put them on cards. That gave us 12 plays for Team Defense period. We moved the ball from hash to hash each day. On Monday scout offense would have ball on its -30 (defense's +30). We played our straight Base defense so kids could get used to aligning-keying that week's opponent without having to worry about executing stunts etc. Occasionally this also helped us see a weakness we hadn't recognized on film-paper. On Tuesday offense had ball on its +40 and ran same 12 plays plus any "Gadgets" we had seen from opponents. We worked in any stunts or alternate fronts we game planned. If opponents had a play they liked on SY we could call our SYMF defense when that one was due to be run and if not just call it once each hash regardless. Wednesday was "Red Zone" day so scout team had possession on +20. We ran any blitzes we planned on using that day, plus had a GL period. Thursday as with most everybody was review-polish. I was more concerned with kids getting lined up-adjusting to movement and reacting to their keys correctly than with D&D. You can spend (waste?) a lot of time figuring out that on Run situations opponents are going to run Power, Iso, or Sweep, and that on Pass situations they're going to pass. Respectfully, the process took us about 15-20 minutes. |
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Post by blb on Jun 12, 2022 8:59:48 GMT -6
Respectfully, the process took us about 15-20 minutes. Does that include the time it takes to tag D&D, Hash, Field Position onto tape? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 12, 2022 9:12:48 GMT -6
Respectfully, the process took us about 15-20 minutes. Does that include the time it takes to tag D&D, Hash, Field Position onto tape? No, the time to breakdown the film would not be included. |
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Post by agap on Jun 12, 2022 9:23:48 GMT -6
We always script for Team D. It's based on their tendencies. When it's 2nd & Medium, the plays scripted are what they run on 2nd & Medium. Then we pick what we want in that situation and that's on the script. Like others have said, we wouldn't want to make a 3rd & Short call on defense but the Scout O Coach chose a 3rd & Long play. What do you do if opponent had no 2nd and Mediums (or any other specific D&D categories) in games you broke down? Do you change the yardage parameters of D&Ds when offense gets into four-down territory? As far as tendencies - offense may break them because the defense you play is different from previous opponents'. Or they may automatic your "look." So those may be of minimal value come game night. Four-down territory is different. If they don't have any plays in a certain D&D category, we skip it. Our calls for each category weren't much different. It might be a certain stunt or blitz that we run all the time and we'd call against anything anyways. |
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Post by 33coach on Jun 12, 2022 11:10:39 GMT -6
What are the things you do in coaching that seems very standard to you at this stage in your career but you forgot/forgotten they aren't/weren't done by everyone? I don't mean this in a malicious way, or "they're an idiot for not doing x" but just something you just assumed was understood/practiced/done by other people but are apparently not. Someone on this board mentioned coaches that do practice without a practice plan and I forgot that (though hopefully considered standard practice) wasn't universal. On a similar note I don't understand how people practice, especially defense, without a script. the way ive always approached it is that your opponents tendencies ARE your script. as a Defensive coach, i shouldnt need a sheet to tell me that on 3rd and 1 the opponent will most likely run....X. Thats what film and scouting is for. |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 12, 2022 18:10:52 GMT -6
On a similar note I don't understand how people practice, especially defense, without a script. the way ive always approached it is that your opponents tendencies ARE your script. as a Defensive coach, i shouldnt need a sheet to tell me that on 3rd and 1 the opponent will most likely run....X. Thats what film and scouting is for. THIS |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 12, 2022 18:36:21 GMT -6
the way ive always approached it is that your opponents tendencies ARE your script. as a Defensive coach, i shouldnt need a sheet to tell me that on 3rd and 1 the opponent will most likely run....X. Thats what film and scouting is for. THIS I don't see the negative of using that film study and scouting to pre-plan the plays your scout team will run against your planned defenses. |
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Post by agap on Jun 12, 2022 21:49:34 GMT -6
Do you not script anything or just the defensive calls? Almost 15 years ago, we didn't script anything. The DC would call a short yardage call on defense but the scout team coach picked a 3rd & Long play. Or the opposite would happen. The DC made his "prevent" call but the scout offense ran a short yardage play. If you don't script anything, this will happen all the time.
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Post by coachdmyers on Jun 13, 2022 8:43:36 GMT -6
I'll throw another one out that you guys made me think of, ending practice on time. It boggles my mind that some coaches will go way over their defined practice time regularly.
Also, I don't like scripting if I'm calling offense. It helps me to make calls in practice the way I would in the game. I don't have a problem with assistants making themselves a script if they're calling a period. I just don't work well that way and frankly, don't have the time. If I was just coaching and not also teaching, I might do something different but that's not my world.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Jun 13, 2022 9:51:12 GMT -6
I'm still a younger coach at 32, but it blows my mind how hard it is to get other coaches on board with organizational maps and road-mapping, especially with practice plans. So many that I grew up with and work with just go "defense day, offense day, and whatever we need to do day." IMO, this lack of mapping is one of the fastest and easiest ways to forget about fundamentals.
One of my biggest gripes is wasted practice time, especially long pauses for water breaks or just talking/standing around. I see higher-level college and NFL programs doing these with great efficiency, and while I don't expect lower levels to be that organized, some kind of mapping or practice planning should be utilized.
Our HC for our team would like to have interns for our program (though we wouldn't be able to pay them), and I've expressed to have one to be a quality control coach/intern...one who blows the whistle to stop/start each session of practice, or to make sure we aren't wasting time (I even suggested it could be a random friend/partner of the staff or team who wants to be involved). Give them a practice plan, and blow a whistle when it's time for the next session. I got quite a lot of resistance for it.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Jun 13, 2022 9:58:11 GMT -6
Filming practice is definitely at the top of my list. I know some coaches will say they see everything they need to see in practice. Some coaches even think they see all 22 in detail. Trust me. You do not. I can point out things to players and they don't make that same mistake again because they saw themselves make it on video. You can see things Using Hudl. I can't believe how many coaches don't use Hudl other than as a tool to stream & exchange "film". Being prepared for practice with a plan, a script etc. Practicing special teams as opposed to rounding up 11 guys and putting them on a KO unit and telling them to go tackle the returner. There are skills and drills for this, and you can develop players to fit the roles you need them for on KO, KOR, Punt etc. I feel like I ranted? This is where you find your diamonds in the rough. We don't film practice, but as an adult team, we don't have the facilities or financial resources to film our practices (or get the right equipment) without going deep into the red. However, we do use hudl, and this season, we found three new defensive starters (or rotational players) by watching film. On film, you see all the players who don't get stats, but do their jobs well, such as an up-coming O-lineman, or a very disciplined and technique-focused linebacker or defensive lineman. We found a couple players who were going relatively unnoticed by us, and after a half-way-season film breakdown by our DC, he noticed three of them were always in the right gap, taking the right angles, etc...they just weren't getting tackles or turnovers, or making "impact" hits. |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 13, 2022 9:58:23 GMT -6
Also, I don't like scripting if I'm calling offense. It helps me to make calls in practice the way I would in the game. Got to admit I am confused. Do you spot the ball and it is 1st and 10 and the scout team is trying to stop you and go from there until you score? |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 13, 2022 10:12:02 GMT -6
The D&D part of this has been interesting to read. We script the scout offensive play, the defensive call, and the Hash for every period but not a down and distance.
We do have a couple periods during the week where we work 3rd and long and 3rd/4th and short, but in a standard team period we don't work down/distance into each play. Maybe it would help our kids to be more aware of the situation in the games if we did, but I've felt like outside of 3rd/4th down scenarios there just hasn't been a big change in what our opponents are calling and what we'll be calling.
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Post by carookie on Jun 13, 2022 10:23:36 GMT -6
I'll throw another one out that you guys made me think of, ending practice on time. It boggles my mind that some coaches will go way over their defined practice time regularly.Also, I don't like scripting if I'm calling offense. It helps me to make calls in practice the way I would in the game. I don't have a problem with assistants making themselves a script if they're calling a period. I just don't work well that way and frankly, don't have the time. If I was just coaching and not also teaching, I might do something different but that's not my world. I used to work with a real good coach, but had a MAJOR issue with this. What was worse is he'd finish practice 5 minutes late, then give a 20 minute speech. I think, as with most things, people have to understand diminishing returns in this regards: the more you say, the less they will remember. Same goes with going over practice time. If you add on 15 minutes due to inefficiency, then thats probably 15 minutes of work you did early on that just got forgotten about or became relatively less valuable. Another thing that seems standard to me, though I don't agree with it: 20 hours of practice a week during the summer. Most everyone around here is going 4 hours a day 5 days a week. I fully recognize this is a 'keeping up with the Joneses' (well for some) mentality. And if we don't do it our top kids will get poached by those who do. I've been living this for a while now, but wondering if its not as common for others. |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 13, 2022 10:50:56 GMT -6
Most everyone around here is going 4 hours a day 5 days a week. GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. |
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Post by coachdmyers on Jun 13, 2022 11:08:11 GMT -6
Also, I don't like scripting if I'm calling offense. It helps me to make calls in practice the way I would in the game. Got to admit I am confused. Do you spot the ball and it is 1st and 10 and the scout team is trying to stop you and go from there until you score? I just mean in terms of mostly using my free-recall, and assessing what I'm seeing of how we're executing certain plays. I have a call sheet that I can work off with reminders and things to refer to, but it's not "this is play 1, this is play 2" If we are struggling with certain plays/concepts, we address that, and try again. We do situations on Thursdays mainly, though we will have move the ball, down and distance once we get a certain amount of the offense installed. |
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Post by 33coach on Jun 13, 2022 11:08:38 GMT -6
I don't see the negative of using that film study and scouting to pre-plan the plays your scout team will run against your planned defenses. if we are going to burn practice time on 11 on 11, then i expect it to be as close to "game scenario" as possible. and i expect our scout O to call their game the way the opponent would. HUGE CAVIATE here. if there is something we feel they *might* do, that we haven't seen in film, or saw a few seasons ago from the same coach...we will specifically place that somewhere so we can talk through as needed. but those are special cases that honestly dont happen often enough to really worry about. |
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Post by 33coach on Jun 13, 2022 11:10:31 GMT -6
Do you not script anything or just the defensive calls? Almost 15 years ago, we didn't script anything. The DC would call a short yardage call on defense but the scout team coach picked a 3rd & Long play. Or the opposite would happen. The DC made his "prevent" call but the scout offense ran a short yardage play. If you don't script anything, this will happen all the time. 11 on 11 periods need organization. a coach should be dedicated to calling out the down and distance after every play. just so everyone is on the same page. OR if you need to fill out a practice plan. script your periods Down and Distance. not plays. 3:10 - 3:15 - 1st and 10 3:15 - 3:25 - 2nd and medium 3:25 - 3:35 - 3rd and medium 3:35 - 3:40 - 3rd/4th and short .... |
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Post by carookie on Jun 13, 2022 11:18:59 GMT -6
Most everyone around here is going 4 hours a day 5 days a week. GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. Yeah I know, its insane! But it is SOP around these parts. Now mind you, we have a three week mandatory dead period where nothing goes on. But outside of that pretty much everyone of the top schools around here is putting in 4-5 weeks of 20 hour weeks in the summer. I think its overkill, but its what is done. |
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Post by CS on Jun 13, 2022 11:53:34 GMT -6
GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. Yeah I know, its insane! But it is SOP around these parts. Now mind you, we have a three week mandatory dead period where nothing goes on. But outside of that pretty much everyone of the top schools around here is putting in 4-5 weeks of 20 hour weeks in the summer. I think its overkill, but its what is done. This is why many kids are finding things to do other than football |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Jun 13, 2022 13:22:21 GMT -6
Yeah I know, its insane! But it is SOP around these parts. Now mind you, we have a three week mandatory dead period where nothing goes on. But outside of that pretty much everyone of the top schools around here is putting in 4-5 weeks of 20 hour weeks in the summer. I think its overkill, but its what is done. This is why many kids are finding things to do other than football This blows my mind too. I help moderate a football related sub on reddit, and we had a high school kid comment about how his team has three 6-hour day practices per week, plus film on a 4th day for the summer. I think that state was Utah. The older I get, and the more I realize how "small" football will be in life for the vast majority who play it in high school, the more I think this sport is running itself out of popularity. 90% of these kids going through these insane off-season programs won't even care or forget about them by the time they're 21 or 22. I wish we'd really just hop on the European soccer train and go all in on "football academies," like how the rest of the world has soccer development academies (full on soccer schools not tied at all to academic/K-12 programs). That way those who actually want to commit to football or try to make it in the college/pro level can elect to get into these programs and spend all that time in the summer on the sport (and where their academics won't interfere or cross with their other passion). 20 hours of practice in the summer should not be expected for kids who just want to play football while they can with no real intention of playing it as a career. |
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Post by CS on Jun 13, 2022 13:48:13 GMT -6
This is why many kids are finding things to do other than football This blows my mind too. I help moderate a football related sub on reddit, and we had a high school kid comment about how his team has three 6-hour day practices per week, plus film on a 4th day for the summer. I think that state was Utah. The older I get, and the more I realize how "small" football will be in life for the vast majority who play it in high school, the more I think this sport is running itself out of popularity. 90% of these kids going through these insane off-season programs won't even care or forget about them by the time they're 21 or 22. I wish we'd really just hop on the European soccer train and go all in on "football academies," like how the rest of the world has soccer development academies (full on soccer schools not tied at all to academic/K-12 programs). That way those who actually want to commit to football or try to make it in the college/pro level can elect to get into these programs and spend all that time in the summer on the sport (and where their academics won't interfere or cross with their other passion). 20 hours of practice in the summer should not be expected for kids who just want to play football while they can with no real intention of playing it as a career. I respectfully disagree about academies. Baseball and basketball are already pricing out a lot of kids. I pray that football will always be funded by schools and that d-bags will stop thinking that pain is actually weakness leaving the body |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 13, 2022 13:49:54 GMT -6
Yeah I know, its insane! But it is SOP around these parts. Now mind you, we have a three week mandatory dead period where nothing goes on. But outside of that pretty much everyone of the top schools around here is putting in 4-5 weeks of 20 hour weeks in the summer. I think its overkill, but its what is done. This is why many kids are finding things to do other than football And let me add this, I hope all my opponents go 5 days a week, 4 hours a day. Every single one of them. I don't think that is over kill. I think that is kill. You know why I go Tue, Wed, Thu 9am-12noon? Because I think that is about the right amount. If anything, I would go LESS, not more. Our other sports go with us for about 2 hours on Tue and Thu and one hour on Wed. That is when we are doing strength and speed training. We get about one hour of "football" in the other hour each day. |
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Post by blb on Jun 13, 2022 13:54:33 GMT -6
Most everyone around here is going 4 hours a day 5 days a week. GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. They must be paying HS Football coaches a LOT more than they do around here. |
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Post by 33coach on Jun 13, 2022 14:17:48 GMT -6
Most everyone around here is going 4 hours a day 5 days a week. GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. even 3 hours is too much in my opinion. what do you have to do in spring that takes 9 hours a week? lift for an hour, field for an hour. be done. burnout is real gents... |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 13, 2022 15:04:38 GMT -6
GOOD GRACIOUS!! That is insane to me. We are Tue, Wed, Thu for 3 hours. Wed might average 2-2.5 hours. even 3 hours is too much in my opinion. what do you have to do in spring that takes 9 hours a week? lift for an hour, field for an hour. be done. burnout is real gents... Don't disgaree. Tue/Thu 8:00 warmup 8:05 v weights / jv plyos in gym 8:35 switch 8:40 jv weights / v plyos in gym 9:10 break 9:20 head to field 9:25 agilities 9:40 acceleration work (Tue) / speed work (Thu) 10:55 break 11:00 specialty 11:05 offense or defense (indy/run fit/ pass skell, team stuff, jv, etc.) 12:00 done Wed start on track 8:00 warmup 8:05 speed work (hurdles, wickets, one legged stuff, etc.) 8:30 mph sprints on freelap 9:00 head back across street 9:05 break 9:15 head to field 9:20 football stuff 11:00 (or when we want) done |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 13, 2022 17:49:16 GMT -6
Dress. I see a lot of people wearing different socks, 1 tight and not the other. And these are also good teams that do this. It's just something that bothers me so I need to be sure to focus on the things I value.
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Post by carookie on Jun 13, 2022 18:06:07 GMT -6
Dress. I see a lot of people wearing different socks, 1 tight and not the other. And these are also good teams that do this. It's just something that bothers me so I need to be sure to focus on the things I value. At first I thought you were talking about coaches, because I often wear one compression sock, and not the other, to help with circulation....It almost got real up in here |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 13, 2022 18:14:26 GMT -6
QBR equations
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