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Post by fantom on Apr 6, 2022 17:31:59 GMT -6
It always struck me as extremely hypocritical, first, that schools gave diplomas to kids who were-would've been ineligible for athletics. And second, if eligibility standards are such effective motivation for improved academic performance, why aren't they applied to ALL Extra-Curriculars (music, drama, clubs, etc.)? Having eligibility rules higher than your state's (or school's) seems unnecessarily punitive and exclusionary. The assumption would be that sports participation was the cause for poor grades when in fact the opposite is true - studies have shown for decades that kids tend to do better academically when they are involved in athletics. This is exactly why I really hated the school rule that kids under a 2.0 couldn't even be on the team. I guess the logic was that having less structured time after school and fewer adults around them would give them more time for homework and studying. We didn't lose many but once we did we didn't get many back. |
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Post by Defcord on Apr 7, 2022 3:49:36 GMT -6
Coach, say your school requires a 2.0 GPA, and one season you decide to bump your requirement up to a 3.0 GPA, and you lose a decent amount of guys who stayed above a 2.0 as sophomores but cant make a 3.0 as juniors, what then? Is it just oh well? Not trying to be a smart@$$, just asking. i wouldn’t change it from year to year. If my program standard is 2.0, it’s 2.0. If it’s 2.5, it’s 2.5. I’m not trying to use it to screw guys, but I want them to be held accountable academically. If a kid chooses only to be a good enough scholar to be eligible for sports, I can live with that. I’m there to encourage him to do better and let him know how doing better can benefit him, but I’m not there to force him to meet a higher standard than what the state and school implement. Some of the life lesson is you have to make decisions that have results that aren’t optimal. Our job is to give them information and guidance. At the end of the day. I will not let a player with a 0.5 GPA (whom the state of North Carolina deems eligible to participate) play because if I can’t trust him to go to class or turn in his assignments, how can I trust him to remember what he’s supposed to do or to not jump offsides on 4th down with the game on the line. What lesson are we teaching by saying you don’t need to give your best effort? Kids don’t learn a lesson about the consequences of their actions if there are none. If you don’t show up to your job or don’t do everything you need to do at work, you’re going to get fired. If you don’t go to class or don’t turn in your work, there should be a consequence. Playing sports is a privilege, not a right. They did do “everything they needed to do” though because they have met the eligibility requirement. I don’t give everything I have at work everyday. I find myself checking a text from y obnoxious buddies when I could be grading papers. I sometimes am reading Huey when I could be up moving around the room reenforcing. I’m a good teacher but I am not always giving my best effort. I understand the idea that you want kids to be accountable but you are setting an arbitrary standard based on your own personal experience and belief system. I have had kids that loved football that didn’t love school. They could have a crappy gpa and still get the job done. I’ve had 4.0 kids who I couldn’t trust on the field. Different people value academic performance differently. I have had very few academic issues over the years. Our message is if you love football you will do what it takes to play. Where’s your cutoff? 2.0? 3.0? 3.5? Why not a 4.0? How can a line even be set. What if my starting LB has to work 40 hours to support his family and is barely scraping by with a 1.8 but my starting QB is affluent and highly intelligent but is coasting bu with a 2.6? |
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 7, 2022 10:27:15 GMT -6
fantom blb et. al. I get where y'all are coming from. I also agree to an extent..... Why should Joe Headballcoach think he should go above and beyond the grades requirement calls from admin, the calls for kids need football more than football needs the kid, my job is to coach footaball and nothing else, etc...... However, the same arguments could be made of all the calls on here that those in admin don't know their elbow from the arse hole when it come the reality of education and sport..... As jaded as 30 years in the business has made me, I can appreciate my HC's desire to expect more. As I have alluded, he is in a position b/c of his successes on the field and his ability to rationalize high expectations to rise kids above their circumstances. Plus he has the will power/energy to MAKE it happen. Also, his cut offs are reasoned (a C is not that hard, if you want to get into college Ds/Fs won't cut it, etc....) and just b/c a kid doesn't make the cut offs, he is still part of the team and isn't treated any differently except he doesn't get to play in the game. My HC will also keep a kid 'ineligible' if he doesn't make the summer work out expectation. I.E. Joe Sophomore who was a no show all summer, has to spend the first month+ standing on the sidelines in street clothes watching position drills before he can even get pads/practice. He is pretty consistent in the line of 'kid doesn't do what is expected, then kid doesn't reap the benefit of the game but is still part of the program'. All support structures are made available, even more so, to the these kids. Every program is different, even one is the same. We all have to find what makes ours be successful.
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Post by CS on Apr 8, 2022 6:46:30 GMT -6
2 examples why I feel it’s a bad idea.
2 really great programs in my state decided to go to a 2.5 requirement instead of sticking to the 2.0 that our athletic association requires.
Both teams immediately lost players and went into the $hitter. Both school boards fired the superintendents that decided to raise the standard after several years of taking a$$ beatings.
1 is back to making runs at state and the other won one 2 years ago, was runner up last year and will probably win it this year.
This is just my experience with it and it is in fact limited but it’s all the evidence I need to never do that
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Post by blb on Apr 8, 2022 7:07:02 GMT -6
2 examples why I feel it’s a bad idea. 2 really great programs in my state decided to go to a 2.5 requirement instead of sticking to the 2.0 that our athletic association requires. Both teams immediately lost players and went into the $hitter. Both school boards fired the superintendents that decided to raise the standard after several years of taking a$$ beatings. 1 is back to making runs at state and the other won one 2 years ago, was runner up last year and will probably win it this year. This is just my experience with it and it is in fact limited but it’s all the evidence I need to never do that The studies I read showed that increased eligibility requirements did not improve academic performance of the schools examined but athletic participation and success declined. |
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Post by coachcb on Apr 8, 2022 9:50:29 GMT -6
2 examples why I feel it’s a bad idea. 2 really great programs in my state decided to go to a 2.5 requirement instead of sticking to the 2.0 that our athletic association requires. Both teams immediately lost players and went into the $hitter. Both school boards fired the superintendents that decided to raise the standard after several years of taking a$$ beatings. 1 is back to making runs at state and the other won one 2 years ago, was runner up last year and will probably win it this year. This is just my experience with it and it is in fact limited but it’s all the evidence I need to never do that Although I don't like the thought of a player having failed a class, I believe that the 2.0 cut-off is absolutely acceptable. My sophomore year of high school, I had two As, two Bs and an F (Spanish 2). A good chunk of my class had Ds or Fs and the teacher was not renewed the next year. Under my current school's eligibility rules, myself and many other athletes wouldn't have been playing spring sports. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say that I've never worked harder at a class than I did in Spanish that year. And that includes Masters-level math courses.
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Post by tripsclosed on Apr 8, 2022 10:07:54 GMT -6
2 examples why I feel it’s a bad idea. 2 really great programs in my state decided to go to a 2.5 requirement instead of sticking to the 2.0 that our athletic association requires. Both teams immediately lost players and went into the $hitter. Both school boards fired the superintendents that decided to raise the standard after several years of taking a$$ beatings. 1 is back to making runs at state and the other won one 2 years ago, was runner up last year and will probably win it this year. This is just my experience with it and it is in fact limited but it’s all the evidence I need to never do that Although I don't like the thought of a player having failed a class, I believe that the 2.0 cut-off is absolutely acceptable. My sophomore year of high school, I had two As, two Bs and an F (Spanish 2). A good chunk of my class had Ds or Fs and the teacher was not renewed the next year. Under my current school's eligibility rules, myself and many other athletes wouldn't have been playing spring sports. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say that I've never worked harder at a class than I did in Spanish that year. And that includes Masters-level math courses.
Heck, college professors would get a raise if most of their class got D's and F's. And, bonus points if it's an already incredibly difficult subject like science or math and the professor is asian or russian and you can hardly understand what words they are saying let alone comprehend WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO YOU. 😄 |
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Post by coachcb on Apr 8, 2022 11:33:04 GMT -6
Many of us on this board are teachers. And, many of us have colleagues who are, at best, "inflexible" with their grading scale. I had a conversation with one of our English teachers about pulling one of my study-hall student's grade up. He's failed nearly every quiz and test she's given this term, even though he has a 92% on the homework leading up to the those tests.
Me:"Hey what can Billy do to get his grade up?"
Mrs. Ratched: "Study harder for the tests and quizzes."
Me: "Alright... I see that he's completing the assignments, do you think he's cheating on them?"
Mrs. Ratched: "No he works hard on those assignments in class; he's just not studying enough for the assessments."
Me: "Can he retake or correct any of those assessments?"
Mrs. Ratched: "Nope, that's not my policy."
Sorry Billy, you can retake the ACTs and SATs as many times as you need but you'll be retaking English 3 next year, bud.
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