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Post by coachbarlow on Mar 17, 2022 11:22:43 GMT -6
A little about my school. I am from a one team town that plays in the highest level of the state (5a nevada). We have an enrollment of 2,250 but generally lower football numbers than a team would have (35-40 players on varsity, 3 teams) Our reduced and free lunch percentage is at around 51%. New head coach, was on staff last year but are in full rebuild mode.
Spring ball
6 weeks total
3 days a week 6am workouts (every other day)
4 days a week practice after school (M-th)
We are in a very competitive league and we feel super behind. We are trying to cram a whole off season into 6 weeks. I know its a lot for the kids but if they commit I think it will lead to a lot of team success in the fall, if we cant put our offense in, then we will struggle which we have been for the last 3 seasons. What is everyone else doing for spring ball, would love feedback?
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Post by carookie on Mar 17, 2022 11:27:55 GMT -6
Yes, you are asking too much. I was gonna write yes when I first read, "6 weeks total". It grew more emphatic when I saw what was going on every week.
These kids are gonna be burned out, those that actually stay.
You will probably chase numbers away anyhow, so that will reduce your overall ability when you reach the season.
What in the heck are you doing that you need 42 practice/workouts in spring to accomplish? Other than keeping up with the Joneses?
I have class starting now, so I can't go on, but YES way too much.
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2022 11:29:14 GMT -6
So you want them there at 6 AM AND after school? How long would this death march last?
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Post by wolverine55 on Mar 17, 2022 11:33:06 GMT -6
I wouldn't do that as a coach, let alone have to do it as a player. Do you not get summertime/summer workouts with the team?
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 17, 2022 11:34:30 GMT -6
A little about my school. I am from a one team town that plays in the highest level of the state (5a nevada). We have an enrollment of 2,250 but generally lower football numbers than a team would have (35-40 players on varsity, 3 teams) Our reduced and free lunch percentage is at around 51%. New head coach, was on staff last year but are in full rebuild mode. Spring ball 6 weeks total 3 days a week 6am workouts (every other day) 4 days a week practice after school (M-th) We are in a very competitive league and we feel super behind. We are trying to cram a whole off season into 6 weeks. I know its a lot for the kids but if they commit I think it will lead to a lot of team success in the fall, if we cant put our offense in, then we will struggle which we have been for the last 3 seasons. What is everyone else doing for spring ball, would love feedback? But if your adaptations (gains) are made via rest you can't 'cram it in' 6am... what time are these guys waking up? Going to sleep? Safe to assume there's no weight training class for football players during school? While practicing it might be better to just lift 2x and sprint 1x, but why not right before practice? Dress in t-shirt, shorts, girdle and sneakers. Quick warm up (bw squat, pushups, walk to hands, lateral lunges, 1/4 squat jumps), unilateral circuit (3ex, 20s on, 10s off, hit both sides), 3 rock lifts (ex. Split squat, RDL & Shrug, clean high pulls), change shoes and head to the field. sprint day- Dale Baskett program and abridge it to 1-2 reps per exercise and add a primetime/bound and a 20-30 yard full sprint (20 Bigs, 25 mids, 30 skinnies) Our spring offense was pretty much in after 3 practices and we went O days and D days bc of being ironman. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 17, 2022 11:35:12 GMT -6
So you want them there at 6 AM AND after school? How long would this death march last? I just popped hard at death march |
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Post by Defcord on Mar 17, 2022 11:59:33 GMT -6
I say challenge them. I think you definitely should try to challenge them to invest wholly and more so than ever before. As others have said, I would reevaluate your schedule.
My approach would be to pick a list of 3 priorities on both sides of the ball that are measurable and hammer those home and strive to be great at those by the end of spring. It's spring, the only thing that matters is getting better. I would want to leave spring with kids wanting to come back to football enthusiastically in the summer and fall.
On a side and probably petty note. It bugs me when guys want to rush and get their offense in to because they need it to be successful and don't mention any need to excel at defense. I'm completely biased here.
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Post by blb on Mar 17, 2022 12:07:21 GMT -6
coachbarlow what will you do if kid(s) don't show for 6 AM workouts?
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 17, 2022 12:17:55 GMT -6
coachbarlow what will you do if kid(s) don't show for 6 AM workouts? Great question because a school with 50%+ low SES means a team with 75% low SES and typically also means no ride to school until the bus gets there. |
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Post by s73 on Mar 17, 2022 12:19:40 GMT -6
A little about my school. I am from a one team town that plays in the highest level of the state (5a nevada). We have an enrollment of 2,250 but generally lower football numbers than a team would have (35-40 players on varsity, 3 teams) Our reduced and free lunch percentage is at around 51%. New head coach, was on staff last year but are in full rebuild mode. Spring ball 6 weeks total 3 days a week 6am workouts (every other day) 4 days a week practice after school (M-th) We are in a very competitive league and we feel super behind. We are trying to cram a whole off season into 6 weeks. I know its a lot for the kids but if they commit I think it will lead to a lot of team success in the fall, if we cant put our offense in, then we will struggle which we have been for the last 3 seasons. What is everyone else doing for spring ball, would love feedback? I don't have spring ball where I'm from. We just do summer workouts and practice and I feel that's gotten out of hand. Our numbers all over the state have been dropping & I suspect this is a big reason why. We have tried hard not to use all of our contact time and let kids be kids. Otherwise, I feel the alternative is: they quit and then what you tried to do doesn't matter b/c they are not there to benefit from it. Or.....they blow it off, show up for the season and then you have the difficult decision to make what to do with them if some of them are better than the kids that did do your summer program. Hence, we try to keep it reasonable (2 weeks off after school lets out) 3 weeks at 3 days a week. Off thru the 4th of July and then 2 weeks at 4 days a week, 2.5 weeks off at the end. So....they get 5.5 weeks off total plus all Fridays - Sundays. Has been pretty good for us to keep numbers and stay competitive when we have the talent to do so. Just my 2 cents. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Mar 17, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -6
A little about my school. I am from a one team town that plays in the highest level of the state (5a nevada). We have an enrollment of 2,250 but generally lower football numbers than a team would have (35-40 players on varsity, 3 teams) Our reduced and free lunch percentage is at around 51%. New head coach, was on staff last year but are in full rebuild mode. Spring ball 6 weeks total 3 days a week 6am workouts (every other day) 4 days a week practice after school (M-th) We are in a very competitive league and we feel super behind. We are trying to cram a whole off season into 6 weeks. I know its a lot for the kids but if they commit I think it will lead to a lot of team success in the fall, if we cant put our offense in, then we will struggle which we have been for the last 3 seasons. What is everyone else doing for spring ball, would love feedback? I don't have spring ball where I'm from. We just do summer workouts and practice and I feel that's gotten out of hand. Our numbers all over the state have been dropping & I suspect this is a big reason why. We have tried hard not to use all of our contact time and let kids be kids. Otherwise, I feel the alternative is: they quit and then what you tried to do doesn't matter b/c they are not there to benefit from it. Or.....they blow it off, show up for the season and then you have the difficult decision to make what to do with them if some of them are better than the kids that did do your summer program. Hence, we try to keep it reasonable (2 weeks off after school lets out) 3 weeks at 3 days a week. Off thru the 4th of July and then 2 weeks at 4 days a week, 2.5 weeks off at the end. So....they get 5.5 weeks off total plus all Fridays - Sundays. Has been pretty good for us to keep numbers and stay competitive when we have the talent to do so. Just my 2 cents. Yeah honestly spring ball should not even be a thing. Let them have some time off, away from football, away from intensity, away from the grind (aside from lifting of course). Everyone has a different spring situation (like point above about most people riding the bus to school and 6 am start times), and by telling everyone no spring ball, it puts everyone on a level playing field WRT to advantages of having spring ball, and, it makes players who would rather have the spring off not feel obligated to do spring ball to keep up in the arms race with the jones who decide they are amped and ready for spring ball mthafka!!! 😄 |
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Post by blb on Mar 17, 2022 13:18:54 GMT -6
6AM workouts aside, 24 spring practices are nine more than D-I colleges do with scholarship athletes.
In other words, yes, you're asking too much.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Mar 17, 2022 13:28:30 GMT -6
I got to "Spring Ball" and decided the answer was yes.
I've said it before and ill say it again, I had hoped Covid would show us all the ridiculousness of all of this Spring training (weightlifting excluded) but it clearly hasn't. I love the game and have made it a huge part of my life but I'm telling you right now I'm not doing 6am practice and after school practice IN THE SPRING.
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Post by spartan on Mar 17, 2022 14:29:36 GMT -6
Lol, 14 practices spread over 7 weeks. Springballis to have fun generate interest and work on specific skills. We focus on 2 coverages3 fronts
3 runs 3 passes
Have Fun eat popsicles. smash em in the fall
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Post by canesfan on Mar 17, 2022 18:43:17 GMT -6
Yes. Way too much. We’ll probably do 8-9 days total (KY gets 10). We got for about 1 1/2, maybe less. We experiment a lot in spring. Honestly, if we didn’t have it in our state I wouldn’t be too upset.
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Post by coachbarlow on Mar 18, 2022 0:27:21 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program?
Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments.
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Post by realdawg on Mar 18, 2022 3:32:37 GMT -6
Are Las Vegas schools sanctioned or governed by a different association than your school coach? Why did they get approved for 20 padded practices and not the rest of Nevada?
I think you are going to have alot of trouble with that schedule. I get why you want to do it.....you need to get stronger and you need to put in your stuff and practice. But, I bet if you are at a school with over 50% free and reduced lunch, your numbers at a 6AM lift are not gonna be very good. You may get them to stay for practice after school, kids will do that, but kids that dont have a car are not gonna bust their rear end to be at a 6 AM lift. They are gonna tell you coach I have to ride the bus....
As for us, we are a 2A school (700 students) in NC. We are fortunate, all out returning players are in my 1st Pd class. So we get our lift out of the way in school. Next week we start our spring skill development-each position group will go out 1 day a week for an hour. In early May we will start 10 days of spring practice, these last 2 hours. In NC, I cant make anything mandatory until Aug 1. So these spring sessions are optional. Although I dont tell the kids that.
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Post by blb on Mar 18, 2022 7:54:26 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. Use this spring to get your program (weights, offense, defense, practice organization) installed rather than trying to "cram" an entire Off-Season in. Once you have that foundation built you can "ramp it up" during the summer. If you use the schedule you posted you will lose kids and the ones who love football and endure will learn the game isn't much fun. If I had to go through that schedule in the spring to play football in the fall I'd start looking for the soccer field or become a baseball specialist. |
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Post by carookie on Mar 18, 2022 8:46:16 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. This seems to imply that the reason you are losing games is because the other teams are practicing 20 times in spring with full pads and you are not. I think many here are writing that this is not the case. There is clearly a point of diminishing returns and negative returns, I think that what was implied in the original post leads to negative returns. In regards to asking for credentials, "what division you guys play in and in what states...", thats a slippery slope. Does the validity of ones comment only rest on the perceived level of achievement? That being written, I'm right here in the heart of southern California, surrounded by big time top 25 nationally recruiting high schools (that at times I have coached against). Divisions change out here all the time though, so thats kind of hard to pin down. Before that I was in the Phoenix area at a school that is in the highest division. Those teams that found a smart balance (which is obviously in the eye of the beholder) with their time were the ones that made it most consistently to title games. |
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Post by CS on Mar 18, 2022 8:58:10 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. I worked for a guy who’s won almost 300 games and his motto is less is best if that helps you |
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 18, 2022 9:19:44 GMT -6
NY doesn't have spring ball but IMO you need to be careful even in the summer unless you are a huge school. Many years ago when I first became a head coach, a school (I'll call B'ville) decided to practice 5 days a week with full pads from June on. NY had just made it OK to practice whenever you wanted as long as it wasn't "sponsored" by your school-sort of like a camp. Our team played B'ville in game 7 or 8. We beat them and should not have. They had been pre-season ranked in the state top 3. When our kids talked to their kidsafter the game, their kids said they were totally sick of football, having practiced 5 times a week all summer. They and we were big schools. They said they couldn't wait to be done. Huge lesson for me and my coaching. Balance their work with letting them be kids. We have some games on saturdays but I've never made any committments for the kids on weekends. We also, by the way, never met on weekends as coaches either. Calls or e-mails. I think we get more kids playing than otherwise and my coaches stay a lot longer. Pandemic did screw things up, though.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 18, 2022 11:44:41 GMT -6
I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. QUIT WORRYING ABOUT WHAT OTHER TEAMS DO. If you think you what you are doing is best for your team and is the best way to do something, do it. If you don't, then do what you think is best. We have not done 7 on 7 one time in my two years here. No OTA's. We did 4 spring practices last year. We were full pads once and only live hit once in Spring. For August practice, we are done at noon and don't come back until the next day. We workout twice a week for 20-30 minutes. I could go on and on. Figure out what YOU think is best for YOUR program. Do that. Since you asked what division: Alabama 3A. Will be 4A next year due to competitive balance rule. Actually are 2A numbers. I realize everyone does not know what Alabama 3A looks like. It is pretty dang good. The team we beat in the semi's signed 7 guys off just their defense. Three were power 5. Three others d1. One NAIA. The defense also had a junior power 5 offered guy and junior d1 offered guy. The nose was a freshman. He will be offered. That means they had TEN scholarship players on their D. They have three more on offense. Two are power 5. |
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Post by s73 on Mar 18, 2022 14:31:51 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. IME, the clearer the program vision is, the greater the reality to the "less is more" axiom. In other words, when you know exactly what you want to do on O & D & ST's, the less time you have to "dilly dally" around with stuff. For example you KNOW for a fact that you have to have X # of plays and X # of fronts / coverages and you can spend all your time focused on that with the fundamentals that match that mindset, the less time you waste on experimentation as well as trial and error. Once you compartmentalize those things into a tidy package, you'd be surprised through repetition how much time you can save and allow kids to be kids. Again, JMO & experience. The less we do, ALWAYS the better we seem to be. |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 19, 2022 4:47:34 GMT -6
I'd still like to know if there was a different set of rules for Las Vegas schools than the rest of the state? Based off this....."and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices."
I am not saying dont work them hard in the spring or dont do spring ball or dont lift. But I do think you are kidding yourself if you think you are gonna get them to show up to lift at 6 AM and stay after school to practice.
If you cant lift during the school day.....thats a real blessing by the way. Then go 4 days a week after school. Give everyone Friday off..... Lift for 30 min and then get on the field and practice one side of the ball for an hour. Or alternate lifting days and practicing days.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Mar 19, 2022 8:45:06 GMT -6
Significantly too much
Idk the size of your school, but for us we are a school that has to share our athletes. Spring ball is for the OL for us.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 19, 2022 12:13:13 GMT -6
Yes, we definitely feel like there is an arms race going on in our state. You say that all of our practices are too much yet the entire 5a has a similar practice schedule and the Las Vegas schools have been approved for 20 spring full padded practices. I don’t know what there is to do besides try and ramp up our program or keep losing games. What would y’all do to jumpstart a program? Would love to know what divisions you guys play in and what states as well as comments. Chalk me up with the others who say that you are likely wrong in the assumption that those types of things are the reason teams are winning games. What you are seeing is that teams that some teams have already built programs to a successful level and are able to withstand such an endeavor. If one is familiar with the sport of weightlifting (not powerlifting), this is similar to the phenomenon of the training regimes of the Bulgarians under Ivan Abadzhiev when they were the dominant country. The Bulgarian method had lifters working to max weights during multiple training sessions during a day. Places tried to adopt their training methods and did not find similar success for a few reasons (Less competitive environment in gym and no drugs are main reasons). Essentially, the Abadzhiev's program was designed to take the top .01% to high levels while breaking down the other 99.99%. Something similar is happening with the Chinese weightlifting program (training methods may be different, but intensity is still there), where their population is the driving force behind their program's success- not the program itself. Remember, if the entire 5a classification has a similar training schedules, then approximately half of them are losing using that training schedule. (Same principle as when Mountjoy used to mention the success of a certain style of popular offense-failing to realize that it is so prevalent that as many teams using it are losing as were winning) Have you viewed the film of the previous seasons? Why are they losing games? I bet (and most here would probably agree) the #1 reason is that the team is weaker, smaller, slower than opponents. Start there. And show them (on film, and respectfully with small numbers, maybe even 1 on 1) how their weakness, size, and speed translate on the field. Then build them up by telling them with some hard work, they can change that. |
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Post by irishdog on Mar 19, 2022 14:11:29 GMT -6
I'm at one of the smallest schools in the state that plays 11 man football. While the state association allows us a window of 10 spring practices (w/pads) we choose to use only 8 of them, and practice without pads (helmets only). Typically we have 30 varsity players and 15 sub-varsity. Most of our kids participate in other sports during the spring (baseball, lacrosse, and track). We choose to hold our "spring" practices the two weeks before the end of May. By then most of the spring sports teams are done with playoffs, and the students are getting ready for final exams. Most of the school year we have an athletic period where we get our lifting in, but during the month of May we use it for classroom "Football 101" (film/blackboard install for O and D). During the 8 days of spring ball on the field we reviewing what we learned in the classroom, teach-teach-teach basics, evaluate personnel, and observe potential leaders (we have the returning varsity/sub-varsity players nominate individuals for team captains based upon criteria that includes previous season performance, commitment, leadership, and service). They turn nominations in at the end of spring ball. Upon completion of spring ball the coaches and I evaluate the nominations to make sure the they are based upon the criteria and not friendship. I bring the nominees in to let them know they have been nominated by their peers, and that their performances during the summer and fall camp will determine their selection as team captains. For us, spring ball is a like a mini-camp designed to give us a clearer picture of what to expect, and what to do for the coming season.
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Post by fantom on Mar 19, 2022 21:15:48 GMT -6
OK, let me get this straight: You're talking about bringing them in at 6 AM then practicing after school for six weeks.
That's nuts.
The school where I coached played in 5A, second highest in the state, despite the fact that we "played up" and had a 3A enrollment. We were very successful. If anybody had even suggested a schedule like you're proposing maybe we would still have been as successful but it would have been with a different coaching staff because none of us would have stuck around.
I sure wouldn't have.
It's high school football. Hard work is one thing but that schedule is overdoing it.
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Post by cfoott on Mar 20, 2022 9:12:30 GMT -6
A little about my school. I am from a one team town that plays in the highest level of the state (5a nevada). We have an enrollment of 2,250 but generally lower football numbers than a team would have (35-40 players on varsity, 3 teams) Our reduced and free lunch percentage is at around 51%. New head coach, was on staff last year but are in full rebuild mode. Spring ball 6 weeks total 3 days a week 6am workouts (every other day) 4 days a week practice after school (M-th) We are in a very competitive league and we feel super behind. We are trying to cram a whole off season into 6 weeks. I know its a lot for the kids but if they commit I think it will lead to a lot of team success in the fall, if we cant put our offense in, then we will struggle which we have been for the last 3 seasons. What is everyone else doing for spring ball, would love feedback? I would not do this. My focus as a new head coach would be connection and culture. Yes, you need to get in the weight room and on the field, but for six weeks, I think, would cause a lot of players to reconsider coming out to play for you. If your offense takes 6 weeks to install, then you may need to cut it back to just the base during Spring Ball. Add to it during summer. As a brand new head coach, my Spring Ball focus would be on establishing culture and connection while laying the foundation of the offense and defense. It's up to the head coach to figure out how to intertwine that through the weight room and field. Every school/situation is different and require different needs. How is the culture at the school you're at? What is the connection like between the team and the school community? |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Mar 20, 2022 11:54:47 GMT -6
Here is the dilemma. I’m going to assume that if you’re like most schools around here, the. Your top kids WANT to have this kind of schedule and if you don’t, they will spend more time w/their 7 on 7/ club trainer and will also have a higher likelihood of transferring. 50% of your middle of the road kids will show up consistently while the others quit. It’s a slippery slope.
One thing remains true, we have a harder time as football coaches to remained balanced because we can’t play the game year round the way other sports do.
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