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Post by goldenbear76 on Jan 21, 2008 11:21:08 GMT -6
What do you guys think about chewing out a kicker for a missed fg? I'm a big Giants fan, but when I saw Coughlin tear into that FG kicker after the first miss..i wanted to ring Coughlin's neck. I was always taught, always pat a kicker on the butt, tell him he'll get the next one. Kicker's are head cases. Whatcha guys think?
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Post by bulldogoption on Jan 21, 2008 11:25:34 GMT -6
I thiink Tom Coughlin knows a hell of a lot more than I do about kicking and coaching and motivating kickers.
I also think that chewing out a guy who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars to make kicks seems fine to me.
It worked for him.
I would never chew out my HS kickers, but they don't practice like NFL guys, have the skill of NFL guys or do this for THEIR JOB either.
JMO
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Post by airraider on Jan 21, 2008 11:32:03 GMT -6
Same with me on my Qb and interceptions.. dont tear him down.. build him up.. Always try to coach up why they did something bad.. to chew them out insinuates that they did something on purpose to screw up.
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Post by los on Jan 21, 2008 11:32:32 GMT -6
I don't know Bear.... would you chew out another position player for "not" doing their job? lol! Like the QB throwing a stupid int. or a RB fumbling the ball or a lineman missing a block? Its his job.... thats what they pay him to do....make most of the kicks that are in his range ability(provided the blocking holds up, snap is good, hold gets down, etc...) Its like.... I wish I could go to work.... "not" do my job... get the same pay... and nobody say anything about it...What a perfect world that would be!  |
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 21, 2008 11:41:05 GMT -6
At the NFL level the head coach has the right to chew any position player out for not doing his job. High School is a little different depending on the situation.
I didn't see it but since you can't hear what he was saying you really don't know what happened. He could have been yelling but at the same time motivating him for his future attempts.
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Post by k on Jan 21, 2008 11:51:45 GMT -6
My kicker had the Chuck Knoblock / Macky Sasser disease this year. His % was better from 40+ than it was for point afters.
I tried the yelling. I tried the "You'll get um next time." Finally I just gave up and started going for two.
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 21, 2008 11:57:15 GMT -6
I never thought it was particularly great since kicking is not all about intensity and effort. You chew out a DLinemen and he tears someone's head off. You chew me out after I hit a bad golf shot and it's hard for me to pick up a 5 iron and "get mad" or "get intense" or anything to hit my golf shot after that. It's probably just distracting.
But like someone said, it seemed to work. And when they asked Tynes about it he said that is how Coughlin is and he knows he supports him so it just meant he thought he could do it.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 21, 2008 12:20:14 GMT -6
Bad decision, period. Kicking is more mental than anything, mess with the psychee of the kicker and he may not kick the next one either.
Oh wait, that is what happened, he missed the second kick and Coughlin said nothing. He made the third. Proof is in the pudding.
In the NFL, the HC has the right to do a lot of stuff, but that doesm't mean it is right. Kind of like peeing in John Wayne's campfire, yeah, you could do it...but I wouldn't recomend it.
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Post by realdawg on Jan 21, 2008 13:02:25 GMT -6
I never blame a kicker for missing a FG- I feel like the offense should have done its job and stuck it in the end zone. Now missing an EP is a whole different story!
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Post by toddniklaus on Jan 21, 2008 13:24:29 GMT -6
The NFL is just so different that I am not really sure. His job could have been on the line if they don't win that game.
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Post by los on Jan 21, 2008 13:35:58 GMT -6
Bad decision, period. Kicking is more mental than anything, mess with the psychee of the kicker and he may not kick the next one either. Oh wait, that is what happened, he missed the second kick and "Coughlin said nothing". He made the third. Proof is in the pudding. In the NFL, the HC has the right to do a lot of stuff, but that doesm't mean it is right. Kind of like peeing in John Wayne's campfire, yeah, you could do it...but I wouldn't recomend it. Ha Ha... I bet he said "something" under his breath, lol! "Beepin" kickers.... "Beepin guy is gonna get us all fired"....."Awww Beeeep"  |
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Post by brophy on Jan 21, 2008 13:57:10 GMT -6
What is the point of "chewing" any player out, though?
I like the golf analogy, and it makes sense.
I attended a clinic by Nate Kaeding and one of the things he stressed was, "don't treat the kicker any differently than any of the other players. Don't tell him its 'okay', when it clearly isn't". He mentioned that there seems to be a mystique about kickers that you can 'freeze' them or scare them into a shell by treating them like everyone else (which he says is nonesense).
I guess this boils down to when should you berate a player? Is it more for the coach than the athlete?
This is not to say that you shouldn't critique a player, but trying to inflict emotional consequence (transferring frustration) serves WHO, exactly?
So I would guess when a kicker comes off the field after a miss, the "coaches" probably shouldn't hide their frustration but the dialogue would be more, "keep that ankle locked on the plant!", or "you need a longer extension on that first step...". (= correction / coaching to remedy the miss).
This would be like yelling at your quarterback after he throws a pick, "You piece of %&&$, you are completely worthless! Are you TRYING to lose this game!? THINK!", rather than going over his progressions and why that was a bad decision ("did you see the robber creeping to the flat presnap?").
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Post by gregspahn on Jan 21, 2008 14:00:00 GMT -6
Excellent points, coach.
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Post by wildcat on Jan 21, 2008 14:16:18 GMT -6
Always felt that when a coach chews out a player, it is more for the coach than for the player. Unless you, as the coach, saw EXACTLY what transpired on the field that led to your player being out of position or not performing in the way you had planned, chewing out is counterproductive.
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 21, 2008 14:29:13 GMT -6
Should it depend more on what type of player you have then position?
I know some of my players react in a good way when I get on them a lttle bit and some act in a negative way. I am sure we all have the players that wants to go out there and really kick some butt because you lit a fire under his butt and others that you have to almost hold there hand a little bit and say hey you are doing a good job at this, but you need to do this.
I have not really dealt with this being at the middle school level, but I would bet there are kickers out there that need a lttle bit of yelling and some that cant handle it.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 21, 2008 14:51:24 GMT -6
I've chewed out kickers before. They're part of the team, right?
I tell all of my guys from day one, if you don't do your job, you will be singled out.
DEFINITION OF: Not doing your job as a kicker?
Not preparing yourself during practice the way we've outlined. Our kickers follow a daily script that leads up to our team time. They then work on individual skills (onsides, pooch, etc)
Not doing what you are suppose to do leading up to a kicking situation - such as timing up with the holder, kicking into the net.
I'd never yell at a kid for making a physical mistake if he did everything he could to prep to be successful.
In all fairness to Coach Coughlin, we really don't know why Coughlin yelled at him, do we?
Maybe Tynes wasn't prepared prior to the kick. Who knows?
Whatever he yelled it must have worked because the G-Boys are going to the show.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 21, 2008 15:39:34 GMT -6
Touchdowndog said
"Whatever he yelled it must have worked because the G-Boys are going to the show."
Actually it didn't work, he missed the second field goal. Then Coughlin didn't yell at him after that and then made the third.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 21, 2008 16:47:05 GMT -6
What do you guys think about chewing out a kicker for a missed fg? I'm a big Giants fan, but when I saw Coughlin tear into that FG kicker after the first miss..i wanted to ring Coughlin's neck. I was always taught, always pat a kicker on the butt, tell him he'll get the next one. Kicker's are head cases. Whatcha guys think? I thought that maybe the Giants players were right...I didnt like that too much... |
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 21, 2008 17:12:25 GMT -6
Oh no! Coachorr He yelled at him. He tore into him. Maybe you didn't see it because you watched the game from home. Remember, you only get to see what Fox wants you to see. I was sitting in Lambeau. |
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Post by los on Jan 21, 2008 17:28:06 GMT -6
At this level, I think its good for the HC to chew on someone in front of the team, for not doing their job... the asst's. and position coach's can get into the details of what went wrong technically.... all the team knows is.... "we didn't get any production out of this guy".... and as the team spokesman.... the HC can express this frustration. On the positive side.... seeing the guy catch this grief from the boss.... might keep everyone else off his back, lol?
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 21, 2008 17:54:17 GMT -6
Touchdowndog said "Whatever he yelled it must have worked because the G-Boys are going to the show." Actually it didn't work, he missed the second field goal. Then Coughlin didn't yell at him after that and then made the third. One of the main reasons he didn't yell at him for the second missed is because the snap was high and threw his timing off. He should have layed into the center after that one. |
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Post by phantom on Jan 21, 2008 17:55:45 GMT -6
We have a great kickers's coach. He has two rules. 1. Kickers are kickers, not players; 2. Nobody talks to the kickers but him. He's a good coach. He's so good that the HC generally follows his rules and enforces them among assistants. Because he's the HC he can get away from breaking Rule . Rarely.
The rest of us wouldn't even try.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 21, 2008 18:20:17 GMT -6
I've had three D1, full scholarship kickers over my career. Didn't treat any of them "special." If they didn't do their job for lack of prep or lack of focus, they heard about it. Just like a lineman or defensive back would.
It's difficult to coach a kicker who has thin skin. We tell those kind to go play soccer year around if they can't figure out that it's not personal.
The one thing that I totally agree with is that only one person should ever coach the kicker. Everybody tries, but nobody really knows $hit about the position when you get right down it on most H.S. staffs.
I've coached them for 20+ years but have turned those duties over to a young coach who actually kicked.
He's the only one who can give the kicker technique advice. He also agrees that kickers should not be exempt from getting coached up in an intense fashion when needed.
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Post by brophy on Jan 22, 2008 9:14:31 GMT -6
I agree wtih the above statement, but just to play devil's advocate, isn't there 3,000 - 10,000 in the stands on Friday night that can talk crap and "give him the business"? The occassional "get your butt in gear!" to fire up the troops may be in order from time to time, but what does doing the same thing the guy in Section 121, Row L, Seat 5 accomplish for your player in a game? I'm just asking - not debating. Believe me, I didn't type that for some sanctimonious challenge or chest-beating. I am just curious as to the efficiency of those kind of statements (we ALL make) in the course of a game. |
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Post by miami5 on Jan 22, 2008 9:40:09 GMT -6
Ah......... the life of a kicker/punter...This is a hard one to say what is right or wrong. Having been a Punter and Holder in college under a great coach, also very tough, he once told me after he chewed my --- out in practice, Greg I chewed you out because i know your better than that, if i don't yell at you i think theres no hope.....
We lead a solitary life , everyone wants to be us during practice, no one wants our job in a game.Every player on the team would tell me that..When we mess up everyone See's it, we only get a few chances to show our skills so you are expected to perform. Many times it means the game and it's the last thing everyone See's and remembers.
People forget that there are numerous plays in a game that mean as much..The miss tackle,interception,fumble etc.
I think a lot depends on the relationship with the coach and the players, i no it did to me...
I got my butt chewed out in a game once for shanking a punt, hey it happens, ever try kicking a ball with 10 guys trying to block it at the back of your end zone, lucky that we intercepted on the next play to stop the touch down. But anyways every coach on that team was looking for me when i came off, ready to nail me to the cross..ALL except the head coach who gave me reassurance i was better than that..You have to know your players and how they handle things..
was he right or wrong that's a matter of opinion, but trust me he was probably bitching at him self
Greg
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 22, 2008 9:50:08 GMT -6
I only chewed my kicker out one time ever in 23 years of coaching. My kicker this year drank two 5 hour energy drinks prior to the game and had to taken by ambulance to the hospital at halftime because the paramedics thought he was going to have a heart attack. Now this kid was just the kicker- thats all he did and why in the hell he thought he'd need to drink any energy drink at all for a game is beyond me so he got a royal chewing out. He also took the {censored} T with him to the hospital so he got chewed out about that to- kickers  |
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Post by miami5 on Jan 22, 2008 9:56:20 GMT -6
ajreaper
We are a special breed.. LOL..
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 22, 2008 13:03:06 GMT -6
ajreaper We are a special breed.. LOL.. Miami by friend you guys are- the question is which are bigger head cases kickers or QB's? They both can drive a coach to a heroin addiction. |
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Post by thunder17 on Jan 22, 2008 13:09:31 GMT -6
I believe the 2nd miss could have been because of the snap. He probably yelled at the center. The 3rd snap was good.
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Post by miami5 on Jan 22, 2008 13:44:47 GMT -6
in response to above, i never said i was complaining, myself and the kickers where over at our practice area doing our job practice certain situations just as much as anyone else..never complained one bit and my ship got to the dock more than not....and so did our kickers.. as for most people , maybe not you, but many people only remember the last thing thing that happened in a game.. i wonder if Farve got his ass chewed... And i don't know about anyone else but yes i have( put in months of training). we were no different than the rest of the team. up at 6 AM 3.5 mile jog , practice,lunch,practice supper meetings studying film just like everyone else. and that was the first week in Aug. Hours kicking corner kicks, bad snaps, etc. weight training, stretching , tackling (yes) Charting plays for offense-defense, i knew the defense just as good as anyone..we even had to play DB every now and than... Again maybe my coach and team was different.. NEVER did have Popsicles ....i should have tried that one...  And ajreaper, good question, some of my best friends and roommate in college were QB's... one still playing... it could be a toss up, we both had our moments |
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