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Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2019 20:21:05 GMT -6
So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They quit? It is a common tale. HS football is generally "fun". College football in many if not most cases is generally "work". It is quite common for 18-19-20 year olds who are not being compensated or who need football for some reason (school related) to realize that the other students seem to be having a great deal more fun than they are. I don't blame them. My understanding is at least some of them are still there and have some kind of connection to the football program. But obviously not on the roster. Perhaps they are still working out with the team? But not officially on the roster?
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 20:33:19 GMT -6
Most don't grayshirt year one, although I can't speak for all. Your more successful ones a roster spot is a roster spot, they'll bring in 120-130 for camp and assemble the roster from there. So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They could have been greyshirted. I had 2 players greyshirted at Platteville. Definitely not college football material but they loved the game. I think the fact that these colleges recruit so many players makes football such an important piece to these small colleges (D2 & D3). The football programs justify their costs by generating revenue for the school through increased enrollments. If college coaches didn't recruit so heavily, we would see more colleges dropping their programs (much like St Cloud State and MN-Crookston last week)
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Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2019 20:37:00 GMT -6
So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They could have been greyshirted. I had 2 players greyshirted at Platteville. Definitely not college football material but they loved the game. I think the fact that these colleges recruit so many players makes football such an important piece to these small colleges (D2 & D3). The football programs justify their costs by generating revenue for the school through increased enrollments. If college coaches didn't recruit so heavily, we would see more colleges dropping their programs (much like St Cloud State and MN-Crookston last week) What advantage does greyshirting have for the kids? If a school like UW-Platteville offers a "roster spot", is that binding? Or can it be rescinded?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2019 20:41:06 GMT -6
So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They could have been greyshirted. I had 2 players greyshirted at Platteville. Definitely not college football material but they loved the game. I think the fact that these colleges recruit so many players makes football such an important piece to these small colleges (D2 & D3). The football programs justify their costs by generating revenue for the school through increased enrollments. If college coaches didn't recruit so heavily, we would see more colleges dropping their programs (much like St Cloud State and MN-Crookston last week) How are you defining "greyshirting"? But the definition I am most familiar with, it would not seem to apply here since greyshirting means that the student doesn't enroll in the school until the 2nd semester. Delta seems to be under the impression that the students in question all enrolled and attended classes in the fall of 2019 Also, grey shirting probably doesn't help the types of schools looking for revenue since by definition, the student is not enrolling (and therefore not paying) right? I am not extremely familiar with d3 rules regarding roster limits, but it would seem to me that the idea of greyshirting really only benefits schools in manipulating yearly scholarship limits.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2019 20:42:20 GMT -6
They could have been greyshirted. I had 2 players greyshirted at Platteville. Definitely not college football material but they loved the game. I think the fact that these colleges recruit so many players makes football such an important piece to these small colleges (D2 & D3). The football programs justify their costs by generating revenue for the school through increased enrollments. If college coaches didn't recruit so heavily, we would see more colleges dropping their programs (much like St Cloud State and MN-Crookston last week) How are you defining "greyshirting"? But the definition I am most familiar with, it would not seem to apply here since greyshirting means that the student doesn't enroll in the school until the 2nd semester. Delta seems to be under the impression that the students in question all enrolled and attended classes in the fall of 2019 Yes. That is correct. All are students at UW-Platteville.
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 20:47:32 GMT -6
They could have been greyshirted. I had 2 players greyshirted at Platteville. Definitely not college football material but they loved the game. I think the fact that these colleges recruit so many players makes football such an important piece to these small colleges (D2 & D3). The football programs justify their costs by generating revenue for the school through increased enrollments. If college coaches didn't recruit so heavily, we would see more colleges dropping their programs (much like St Cloud State and MN-Crookston last week) What advantage does greyshirting have for the kids? If a school like UW-Platteville offers a "roster spot", is that binding? Or can it be rescinded? My understanding of the greyshirt is that the players that don't make the roster can workout with the team beginning in January (off-season conditioning). They then can try to make the roster the following August after a year in the program. It is the schools way of developing players that aren't ready as incoming freshmen. So the school is giving them a chance to make the team but not guaranteeing it. We had one of our best players get greyshirted at a private school, he was out of shape and had some off the field issues. I think they saw the potential he had and wanted to keep him around but not waste a spot on their limited roster on him. I have some players that have received "roster spots". All those players made the roster their freshman year, I haven't seen a situation where they were guaranteed a roster spot and not make it. Just my experience.
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 20:51:42 GMT -6
Every greyshirted player I have had was enrolled in the fall and went through summer camp before being greyshirted. Usually occurs after 2 or 3 weeks into August. They have the opportunity to rejoin the team in January.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2019 20:54:22 GMT -6
What advantage does greyshirting have for the kids? If a school like UW-Platteville offers a "roster spot", is that binding? Or can it be rescinded? My understanding of the greyshirt is that the players that don't make the roster can workout with the team beginning in January (off-season conditioning). They then can try to make the roster the following August after a year in the program. It is the schools way of developing players that aren't ready as incoming freshmen. So the school is giving them a chance to make the team but not guaranteeing it. We had one of our best players get greyshirted at a private school, he was out of shape and had some off the field issues. I think they saw the potential he had and wanted to keep him around but not waste a spot on their limited roster on him. I have some players that have received "roster spots". All those players made the roster their freshman year, I haven't seen a situation where they were guaranteed a roster spot and not make it. Just my experience. I do not believe that is what the term greyshirt means. That is just offseason work outs. There are no rosters in January. Maybe since there are no athletic grant in aids at d3 they have adopted that term for the practice you describe. Like when HS students have a "signing ceremony" to attend a d3 school, on NLI signing day. There is no national letter of intent that binds a student to a D3 school.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2019 20:55:19 GMT -6
Every greyshirted player I have had was enrolled in the fall and went through summer camp before being greyshirted. Usually occurs after 2 or 3 weeks into August. They have the opportunity to rejoin the team in January. Without being a jerk..that is just being cut. But put in a very nice and positive way in case the student develops.
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 20:56:14 GMT -6
Every greyshirted player I have had was enrolled in the fall and went through summer camp before being greyshirted. Usually occurs after 2 or 3 weeks into August. They have the opportunity to rejoin the team in January. Without being a jerk..that is just being cut. I agree 100%. That is the way most kids see it too.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2019 21:10:35 GMT -6
Without being a jerk..that is just being cut. I agree 100%. That is the way most kids see it too. Right. That is not what greyshirt means. Grey shirt is when Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban (Michigan and Alabama have gotten grief over the practice) tell a HS class of 2020 that has accepted an offer the university has made that the university no longer is offering that scholarship for the fall of 2020, but rather they want him to delay his enrollment so that he can sign in January and count against the next year's class. It is often associated with oversigning. There is no guarantee or obligation for the University to actually extend the offer for that athlete. It is all about managing the scholly limits.
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Post by fantom on Dec 21, 2019 21:17:05 GMT -6
So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They quit? It is a common tale. HS football is generally "fun". College football in many if not most cases is generally "work". It is quite common for 18-19-20 year olds who are not being compensated or who need football for some reason (school related) to realize that the other students seem to be having a great deal more fun than they are. I don't blame them. I've seen several D3 rosters that had a lot of guys who didn't have jersey numbers.
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 21:19:20 GMT -6
I agree 100%. That is the way most kids see it too. Right. That is not what greyshirt means. Grey shirt is when Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban (Michigan and Alabama have gotten grief over the practice) tell a HS class of 2020 that has accepted an offer the university has made that the university no longer is offering that scholarship for the fall of 2020, but rather they want him to delay his enrollment so that he can sign in January and count against the next year's class. It is often associated with oversigning. There is no guarantee or obligation for the University to actually extend the offer for that athlete. It is all about managing the scholly limits. Yes, that is what it means at the D1 level. At the D3 level, they use the term for kids that they are cutting in August. They tell the kid he can workout with the team in the off-season and try out for the team the following August. There are no athletic scholarships and no guarantees for anything at the D3 level. So it is all coach-speak. Most kids realize they were cut when they are told that are greyshirted. i would say it is a WIAC (UW system) practice, but I had a player told he was grey shirted in the IIAC. I personally believe it is a term used for today's players/parents that doesn't hurt feelings but greyshirt is definitely the term used.
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Post by fantom on Dec 21, 2019 21:34:48 GMT -6
Right. That is not what greyshirt means. Grey shirt is when Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban (Michigan and Alabama have gotten grief over the practice) tell a HS class of 2020 that has accepted an offer the university has made that the university no longer is offering that scholarship for the fall of 2020, but rather they want him to delay his enrollment so that he can sign in January and count against the next year's class. It is often associated with oversigning. There is no guarantee or obligation for the University to actually extend the offer for that athlete. It is all about managing the scholly limits. Yes, that is what it means at the D1 level. At the D3 level, they use the term for kids that they are cutting in August. They tell the kid he can workout with the team in the off-season and try out for the team the following August. There are no athletic scholarships and no guarantees for anything at the D3 level. So it is all coach-speak. Most kids realize they were cut when they are told that are greyshirted. i would say it is a WIAC (UW system) practice, but I had a player told he was grey shirted in the IIAC. I personally believe it is a term used for today's players/parents that doesn't hurt feelings but greyshirt is definitely the term used. I don't know exactly what the rules are. I know that redshirting is illegal at that level but when does their clock start? If they're not on the roster the first year do they still have four more years?
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turk
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by turk on Dec 21, 2019 21:39:41 GMT -6
Yes, that is what it means at the D1 level. At the D3 level, they use the term for kids that they are cutting in August. They tell the kid he can workout with the team in the off-season and try out for the team the following August. There are no athletic scholarships and no guarantees for anything at the D3 level. So it is all coach-speak. Most kids realize they were cut when they are told that are greyshirted. i would say it is a WIAC (UW system) practice, but I had a player told he was grey shirted in the IIAC. I personally believe it is a term used for today's players/parents that doesn't hurt feelings but greyshirt is definitely the term used. I don't know exactly what the rules are. I know that redshirting is illegal at that level but when does their clock start? If they're not on the roster the first year do they still have four more years? D3 football players "clock" starts when they when they play in the first game or practice after the first game of the season. So technically, this greyshirt allows players to maintain their 4 years of competition, if they were to continue. I have never had a player "stick it out" and continue after a greyshirt.
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NAG
Freshmen Member
Posts: 41
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Post by NAG on Dec 21, 2019 22:18:21 GMT -6
DI operates on the "clock" rule. Once you enroll as a full time student (12 credits), you have 5 years to complete 4 seasons of eligibility.
DII, DIII and NAIA operate on full-time semesters. You have 10 semesters to play 4 years of football.
Grey shirting in the traditional sense is enrolling as a part time student (taking under 12 credits) in order to not start eligibility clock.
At the DIII level it has transformed into essentially cutting the player, giving them a workout routine, and asking them to come back next year. Public schools like the WIAC only have so many lockers, helmets etc, or others don't want to manage a 150 man roster.
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center
Junior Member
Posts: 490
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Post by center on Dec 21, 2019 23:25:55 GMT -6
Most don't grayshirt year one, although I can't speak for all. Your more successful ones a roster spot is a roster spot, they'll bring in 120-130 for camp and assemble the roster from there. So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? I’m guessing they didn’t make the 105 man roster.
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Post by wiscohscoach on Dec 24, 2019 12:12:35 GMT -6
Most don't grayshirt year one, although I can't speak for all. Your more successful ones a roster spot is a roster spot, they'll bring in 120-130 for camp and assemble the roster from there. So maybe you can explain this to me. We had 5 guys from our 2018 state semifinal team go to Platteville. At least some of these guys had a "roster spot" and posted pictures of themselves on campus with a UW-Platteville Pioneers backdrop, holding the axe, with the #SwingTheAxe hashtag. However, NONE of these guys are on the current UW-Platteville roster. So what is the deal with the guys? Are they on the team? Did they get cut? What is their status, exactly? They may grayshirt year one there, which means technically they aren't on the roster but they are lifting, running, classes, etc. They would be allowed to come back at the start of the winter semester. Again though, I can't speak for all programs.
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Post by jared10227 on Dec 25, 2019 14:49:48 GMT -6
I've posted this before, but there are probably signing ceremonies for everything now because people complained. Where I work, there aren't signing ceremonies for anything because they don't want to end up having a ceremony for everything. Where I work, they now have to have a "signing day" for kids that are just going to college to get a degree, because parents were complaining that athletes were getting special treatment. Tables lining about 2/3s of the gym with kids "signing." Unbelievable!!
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Post by blb on Dec 25, 2019 15:39:59 GMT -6
I've posted this before, but there are probably signing ceremonies for everything now because people complained. Where I work, there aren't signing ceremonies for anything because they don't want to end up having a ceremony for everything. Where I work, they now have to have a "signing day" for kids that are just going to college to get a degree, because parents were complaining that athletes were getting special treatment. Tables lining about 2/3s of the gym with kids "signing." Unbelievable!!
Not surprised.
A while back parents demanded that band kids, choir kids, basically every one involved in Extra-Curriculars be able to get letter jackets.
Then it went to academic letters - kids that made honor roll, etc.
Last two schools I worked at few bought them because so many kids had them previously they came to mean little.
And, worse yet - ostracized the ones who didn't "earn" or couldn't afford them.
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