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Post by mountainman on Nov 17, 2019 21:47:05 GMT -6
Just looking at the 6A Quarter final score in Arizona
#8 Desert Ridge 35 #1 Red Mountain 49
#5 Highland 24 #4 QueenCreek 27
#6 Desert Vista 70 #3 Perry 63
#15 Mountain View 28 #7 Liberty 45
Just wondering if anyone plays defense anymore. Scores from many of our different divisions are similar. Anyone seeing something similar to this or is this just a Grand Canyon State aberration??
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Post by **** on Nov 17, 2019 22:10:05 GMT -6
It’s amazing what Perry does schematically.
They just don’t have the kids to compete with Chandler, etc
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Post by carookie on Nov 17, 2019 22:12:24 GMT -6
I hope one of those schools does, I used to be their DC and still have some buddies there
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Post by wolverine55 on Nov 17, 2019 22:13:02 GMT -6
I guess not, because other than 70-63 those scores don't really stick out to me.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 17, 2019 23:16:25 GMT -6
Part of it is just how the game has changed with tempo, improved passing games, etc. I think. Friday night we had 9 defensive possessions in the first half alone. If both teams are good and there's a ton of possessions there's going to be some points scored.
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Post by cpcollet on Nov 18, 2019 9:21:47 GMT -6
Good question. The 4A scores in AZ were far more reasonable, though. Desert Edge 24 Casa Grande 21 Gila Ridge 28 Sahuaro 21, Mesquite 27 Marcos 26 and Cactus 34 Peoria 7. Part of Arizona's problem is the huge discrepancy between the have's and have nots, which is why the Open Division State tournament was created.
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Post by somecoach on Nov 18, 2019 21:13:37 GMT -6
Cody on Match Quarters said it best... in high scoring leagues defense has become a "points per possession" thing
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Post by coachcb on Nov 19, 2019 11:47:19 GMT -6
It's all relative to the teams that are playing, schemes being run, etc..etc.. It's not unusual to see high scoring games in the quarterfinals around here. But, those scores tend to drop significantly in the semi's and the championship. A few years ago, an Air Raid team was tearing through the playoffs and putting up 40+ points per game. They lost the state title game 28-21.
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Post by newhope on Nov 19, 2019 13:08:59 GMT -6
Looking at colleges out west, it appears they don't...so why shouldn't it trickle down to the high schools?
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 19, 2019 13:47:51 GMT -6
All the rules in football the last decade benefit the offense... casual fans want to see points and touchdowns. No huddle offenses designed to get players tired are built to take advantage of a loophole in the clock-rules to get more points.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 19, 2019 15:14:04 GMT -6
We did not this past season, I can attest to that fact as the DC...
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Post by dblwngr on Nov 19, 2019 16:53:03 GMT -6
Not sure what Arizona football looks like during the regular season but maybe it's just a playoff thing with a lot of high scoring teams in the brackets?
We only allowed an average of 12 points a game during the regular season and now as we head into the semi's, we've given up an average of 21 points a game.
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RnS-OC
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117
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Post by RnS-OC on Nov 19, 2019 16:54:06 GMT -6
All the rules in football the last decade benefit the offense... casual fans want to see points and touchdowns. No huddle offenses designed to get players tired are built to take advantage of a loophole in the clock-rules to get more points. As an OC, this is definitely the case. I think one common sense solution would be being tightening up illegal man downfield to prevent RPOs and putting more restrictions on no huddle offenses. If we are all serious about player safety, then we should be advocating for fewer plays per game, not more.
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Nov 19, 2019 17:21:49 GMT -6
Just looking at the 6A Quarter final score in Arizona #8 Desert Ridge 35 #1 Red Mountain 49 #5 Highland 24 #4 QueenCreek 27 #6 Desert Vista 70 #3 Perry 63 #15 Mountain View 28 #7 Liberty 45 Just wondering if anyone plays defense anymore. Scores from many of our different divisions are similar. Anyone seeing something similar to this or is this just a Grand Canyon State aberration?? Growing up the only places that seemed to play defense were either up on The Mountain or Sunnyside and Amphi in Tucson. A lot of it comes to division of labor and player ability discrepancies. Many teams stock their O with stud players and keep them off defense. Many teams in Tucson area play too complicated defensive schemes combined with a refined machine of spread and RPO concepts since you can basically 7on7 all year round at least South of Flagstaff. Traditionally schools like Sabino, Salpointe, Sunnyside, Safford, and the White Mountain schools won a lot because they played tough, sound defense and put best players on defense.
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Nov 19, 2019 17:29:51 GMT -6
You should see the scores from the OHSAA playoffs this year...
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Post by coachjm on Nov 19, 2019 19:33:56 GMT -6
Not sure what Arizona football looks like during the regular season but maybe it's just a playoff thing with a lot of high scoring teams in the brackets? We only allowed an average of 12 points a game during the regular season and now as we head into the semi's, we've given up an average of 21 points a game. Keep averaging 22+ and my guess is things will keep going well! Congrats!
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Post by coachcb on Nov 20, 2019 8:18:29 GMT -6
In all of our classifications, the teams playing for the state title game are in the top five, defensively. We had a broad mix of offenses in the play-offs but the teams that played tough defense pushed all the way through.
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Post by blb on Nov 20, 2019 8:28:50 GMT -6
It is tough to say based on playoff scores in our state because before the finals in Ford Field (indoors) they can be influenced by the weather.
Generally speaking the number of times you score 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you win, and the number of times you give up 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you lose.
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Post by coachklee on Nov 20, 2019 17:38:20 GMT -6
It is tough to say based on playoff scores in our state because before the finals in Ford Field (indoors) they can be influenced by the weather. Generally speaking the number of times you score 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you win, and the number of times you give up 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you lose. I’d agree that really “high powered” offenses have to have legit cold weather plans to get to Ford Field because they will often play at least 1 game where weather makes getting to 21 a challenge especially based on the quality of their opponents. Almost perfect correlation in my experience and I’ll even expand it to say the 1st to 21 usually wins! I know we have only 1 loss in the past 5 years when we were the 1st to 21 (2 if going by 1st to 20). We also have had only 1 loss scoring 28 or more (35-68 if memory serves me right).
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Nov 20, 2019 21:59:12 GMT -6
All the rules in football the last decade benefit the offense... casual fans want to see points and touchdowns. No huddle offenses designed to get players tired are built to take advantage of a loophole in the clock-rules to get more points. As an OC, this is definitely the case. I think one common sense solution would be being tightening up illegal man downfield to prevent RPOs and putting more restrictions on no huddle offenses. If we are all serious about player safety, then we should be advocating for fewer plays per game, not more. What erks me on illegal man downfield, is when a guy is 8-15 yards downfield and the ball is thrown right by him on a dig or post and there is no call. Last 2 years tds and crunch time first downs have happened to us with this happening. It even happened 4 times in the state championship to the school I was at in 2013.. And those refs are supposedly the best. Heck, I know it’s freshman ball, but I coached one year of it at the 7a level in Arkansas. 4 times we gave up touchdowns to the OFFENSIVE tackle! Yes the the tackle 77,50,74,and another 77 were their jersey numbers .Running post and go routes. First time we were in straight man, and dude catches it all by himself in the end zone , and I’m like no freakin way, it was number 77! I got 2 answers on it, one was “Coach we don’t enforce the number rule here in junior high” which of course I’m like ok, but they can’t have 7 guys running routes! The other answer was “Coach those wide outs were off the line so he’s uncovered!🤦🏼♂️“ I even had it screen shot on my phone to show the refs late in the year cause this team had done it on film. They said they would watch for it and that it was illegal. What do ya know, it happens! But they at least came back after half and said sorry coach we blew it.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 21, 2019 7:40:29 GMT -6
Go on twitter there are plenty of gurus who have all the defensive answers...
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Post by MICoach on Nov 21, 2019 12:19:41 GMT -6
It is tough to say based on playoff scores in our state because before the finals in Ford Field (indoors) they can be influenced by the weather. Generally speaking the number of times you score 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you win, and the number of times you give up 21+ points will correspond to the number of games you lose. I can attest to this. A couple years back we scored like 28, 35, and 42 in the first three rounds - they were cold but dry. Got to semi's and encountered some nasty ran/sleet/wind at about 33 degrees. We matched up with them really well in the passing game but bad weather really negated that completely. The other team was able to just ground and pound their way to Ford Field.
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Post by wolverine55 on Dec 1, 2019 12:37:22 GMT -6
Just looking at the 6A Quarter final score in Arizona #8 Desert Ridge 35 #1 Red Mountain 49 #5 Highland 24 #4 QueenCreek 27 #6 Desert Vista 70 #3 Perry 63 #15 Mountain View 28 #7 Liberty 45 Just wondering if anyone plays defense anymore. Scores from many of our different divisions are similar. Anyone seeing something similar to this or is this just a Grand Canyon State aberration?? College is a whole different animal, but if these scores upset you, do yourself a favor and DON'T look at yesterday's second round D3 scores...lol!
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 1, 2019 12:50:48 GMT -6
Just looking at the 6A Quarter final score in Arizona #8 Desert Ridge 35 #1 Red Mountain 49 #5 Highland 24 #4 QueenCreek 27 #6 Desert Vista 70 #3 Perry 63 #15 Mountain View 28 #7 Liberty 45 Just wondering if anyone plays defense anymore. Scores from many of our different divisions are similar. Anyone seeing something similar to this or is this just a Grand Canyon State aberration?? With these scores and scores in the NCAA as well as some examples in the NFL, I think the most striking thing is how Offense (and offensive tempo) impacts points against or points given up. Heck, Nick Saban, who is treated as and infallible defensive deity by many on this site has given up 33, 44, 46, and 48 in its last 4 games against top 20 ( i.e. - comparably talented) opponents. Points per possession is a much better evaluative stat than total points now.
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Post by coachtua on Dec 2, 2019 12:06:21 GMT -6
Division 2 San Diego Section finals El Camino 75 The Bishops School 59. No OT.
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Post by blb on Dec 2, 2019 14:17:17 GMT -6
Division 2 San Diego Section finals El Camino 75 The Bishops School 59. No OT.
Once again, basketball on grass.
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Post by blb on Dec 2, 2019 14:20:01 GMT -6
With these scores and scores in the NCAA as well as some examples in the NFL, I think the most striking thing is how Offense (and offensive tempo) impacts points against or points given up. Heck, Nick Saban, who is treated as and infallible defensive deity by many on this site has given up 33, 44, 46, and 48 in its last 4 games against top 20 ( i.e. - comparably talented) opponents. Points per possession is a much better evaluative stat than total points now.
Anybody wanna bet Bama will have a new DC next year?
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Post by mdunham on Dec 2, 2019 14:47:38 GMT -6
For what it's worth, we won a game 3-0 this year!!!
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center
Junior Member
Posts: 484
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Post by center on Dec 2, 2019 14:50:00 GMT -6
Another question might be does anyone try and control the clock on offense anymore?
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Post by dytmook on Dec 2, 2019 15:33:22 GMT -6
For what it's worth, we won a game 3-0 this year!!! We lost our last one 7-10...couldn't punch it in from the one on the last play of the game. It sucked.
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