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Post by knightfan64 on Nov 6, 2019 14:05:46 GMT -6
I have heard it said time and time before that there are stages in rebuilding a program...first you lose big, I have felt that burden in various games throughout my 4 years as a head coach....70-0, 81-8, 50-0, yeah I have lost by all of those margins with our group. Then you learn to lose close, win close, and win big.....this year has been weird. We are probably the least athletic team in the area but we are very coachable. Our school is known as a perennial loser and prior to this year we have made the playoffs just 3 times in a 68 year history and had a winning record just 13 times in that time frame. Now on to 2019, same group of kids largely that went 1-9 last year is sitting at 6-3 currently. Of our 3 losses I truly believe if we were 100% healthy we'd of won two of those ball games but them's the breaks. We have learned to win close. (Twice winning by 1 point and 3 times by a touchdown or less). We have learned to come back (trailing in 4 of our 6 wins and tied in the fourth quarter in another). We have learned to battle through adversity and get the 14th winning season in school history and have a shot to qualify for the postseason for just the fourth time in school history. My question to you all, we graduate a good amount of seniors but bring up a lot of kids from a currently 7-1 JV program (wild bc our JV team my first 3 years won 3 games combined). I think we have finally turned the door to "win close" type of program. How do we keep pushing? Urban Meyer described it as the "chase" when he aimed to be as good as Alabama when he was at Ohio State. Our chase to this point was to get a winning season and to get the school's fourth playoff appearance and our seniors largely ran with that for four years. My question is how do we make the next move?
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Post by coachcb on Nov 6, 2019 14:13:16 GMT -6
All you can really do is use the season as a spring-board for off-season development. Nothing brings kids into the weight room and camps/open gyms like winning.
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Post by agap on Nov 6, 2019 14:32:23 GMT -6
What do you want to do beyond a winning season and making a playoff appearance?
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Post by blb on Nov 6, 2019 14:47:55 GMT -6
knightfan64 please break your posts up into paragraphs so they are more readable-understandable.
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 6, 2019 15:49:33 GMT -6
Unless you are in a reliable talent situation, I don't think there's any such thing as turning the corner to constant success. I thought that we had turned a corner after my 1st 4 years, only to have it completely crumble year 5 onward.
2010- 4-5
2011- 6-4
2012- 10-1
2013- 11-1
2014- 3-6
2015- 5-5
2016- 3-6
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Post by planck on Nov 6, 2019 16:24:48 GMT -6
Unless you are in a reliable talent situation, I don't think there's any such thing as turning the corner to constant success. I thought that we had turned a corner after my 1st 4 years, only to have it completely crumble year 5 onward. 2010- 4-5 2011- 6-4 2012- 10-1 2013- 11-1 2014- 3-6 2015- 5-5 2016- 3-6 Most important thing I learned from working with a powerhouse is that you're only going to be as good as the job you did cultivating numbers and young talent for the past decade. |
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Post by chainbucket on Nov 6, 2019 17:11:30 GMT -6
Been where your at 2 things will derail your success: a drop in the number of players and you/your staff relaxing, then expecting less from your athletes. The last one happens slow and is hard to notice if you are not looking for it, think little things. The first one happens fast you look up one day and there is less than 75% of your current number. Both issues need constant attention and planning.
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Post by knightfan64 on Nov 6, 2019 20:49:46 GMT -6
On the numbers thing. I am slightly worried. Coming off 1-9 last year we actually have had our strongest numbers ever. Started the season pushing 80 for JV and Varsity (the previous 3 years 50 was our magic number). We are going wrap up the regular season in mid sixties from attrition, primarily on JV level; however, we graduate 17 seniors so there comes a recruiting need.
I guess the next step would be consistent success. We play in one of toughest districts in the state, and we have seen a state finalist in our district something like 15 of the last 17 years or something another. We are one of 3 teams in our district without a state football championship, and one of the other 3 currently has 3 NFL players so we are usually a whipping boy in league play.
I debate where the chase should be now. Do I aim at the big dog and attempt to do everything program wise like them (state champs 15-17) or do I go for a more attainable goal like constant playoff participation or winning in the playoffs etc?
I like the 2 pitfalls that were pointed out and relate to them some what. Prior to my time here I coached at a very successful program that constantly made the second round of the playoffs. Aside from one magical run to the state semifinals, we could never break through and I think numbers and recruiting may of had a little affect on that. I wouldn’t say staff wise we got complacent. You’re just more like to be hungry if you e been starved rather than constantly fed dinner. Different kind of hunger.
Finally, I broke up my posts into paragraphs to make it more digestible. I like to think I am fairly intelligent, but don’t write like such on message boards. Shame on me.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Nov 7, 2019 1:10:23 GMT -6
knightfan64 I forget where I studied this but it was in college with a professor who works with elite level teams. One idea is you should focus on measurables that you doesn't have to do with the outcome of the game (wins/losses). Remember winning and losing is just one measurable (although we know it can cost a job). Things such as participation numbers, weight room attendance, weight room base strength vs improvement, 3rd down conversion rate %, feeder program numbers, etc. Anything that your staff believes attributes to a winning program. If all of these measurables improve, it should eventually lead to the W/L. Hopefully you get the idea.
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Post by planck on Nov 7, 2019 7:04:54 GMT -6
There's a lot of support for that type of thinking. Winning games and championships is the result of a constellation of factors, many of which you can't control.
For example, we have a really good group of sophomores - possibly the best we've had in a couple decades. Their end of year goal for next season is "win a state title", which sure, fine. But how do you measure that? How do you know if you're making progress?
Instead, as suggested, identify things you can measure, the kids can control, and that you believe will result in program success. Focus on those.
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Post by mkuempel on Nov 7, 2019 11:59:22 GMT -6
I don't want to be a downer here, but there really isn't a "corner" to turn, it's a consistent upward path. Posts here brought up Urban Meyer and Nick Saban, even while coaching a National Title team, they are recruiting for the next season. To go along with one of the pitfalls mentioned, once you feel like you've turned the corner that's when the trouble and complacency creeps in.
Obviously you've been doing something, many things right, so build off of that, but I do like your question of "what next?", and keep finding kids who you think will help your program or kids that your program can help, measure as much as you feel is important, weight room attendance, training numbers, other sport season participation, grades, anything you feel is important.
A wise old coach once told me to scheme to beat the best team you will play that season and that should take care of your scheme for the rest of the season, the rest of the process should be focused on your team, recruiting players and tracking those numbers we mentioned above.
To make the long post short, keep focusing on the minor details that you've been working on to get to this point, keep researching ideas, finding what best fits your personnel and keep working hard.
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Post by CS on Nov 7, 2019 12:35:35 GMT -6
I have heard it said time and time before that there are stages in rebuilding a program...first you lose big, I have felt that burden in various games throughout my 4 years as a head coach....70-0, 81-8, 50-0, yeah I have lost by all of those margins with our group. Then you learn to lose close, win close, and win big.....this year has been weird. We are probably the least athletic team in the area but we are very coachable. Our school is known as a perennial loser and prior to this year we have made the playoffs just 3 times in a 68 year history and had a winning record just 13 times in that time frame. Now on to 2019, same group of kids largely that went 1-9 last year is sitting at 6-3 currently. Of our 3 losses I truly believe if we were 100% healthy we'd of won two of those ball games but them's the breaks. We have learned to win close. (Twice winning by 1 point and 3 times by a touchdown or less). We have learned to come back (trailing in 4 of our 6 wins and tied in the fourth quarter in another). We have learned to battle through adversity and get the 14th winning season in school history and have a shot to qualify for the postseason for just the fourth time in school history. My question to you all, we graduate a good amount of seniors but bring up a lot of kids from a currently 7-1 JV program (wild bc our JV team my first 3 years won 3 games combined). I think we have finally turned the door to "win close" type of program. How do we keep pushing? Urban Meyer described it as the "chase" when he aimed to be as good as Alabama when he was at Ohio State. Our chase to this point was to get a winning season and to get the school's fourth playoff appearance and our seniors largely ran with that for four years. My question is how do we make the next move? Did you win conference? If not that should be your next “chase” IMO |
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Post by rbrown5 on Nov 7, 2019 12:57:06 GMT -6
I am enjoying reading these responses. Keep them coming!
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Nov 7, 2019 14:41:33 GMT -6
Based off the responses winning your conference. Although I do agree with process based focus. My college coach used to say winning was a byproduct.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Nov 7, 2019 19:31:51 GMT -6
This is my stint as HC
YEAR W-L PCT. PF-PA
2019 7-3 .700 279-213 * P
2018 6-4 .600 275-276 * P
2017 4-5 .444 187-147
2016 2-7 .222 138-339
2015 5-4 .556 253-230 *
2014 2-6 .250 140-217
2013 1-8 .111 71-360
2012 3-6 .333 124-207
This is our schools combined record since 1975
142-269 .345
I feel like we are headed in the right direction. JV was 8-0 this season, we will return 4/5 starting lineman next season, our JV QB would start for over half of the teams in our conference. The freshmen are a good group of kids that improved every week and only lost a couple of games. The 7/8 grade groups both had winning records. And our weight room guy has been killing it with all sports.
Turned a corner probably not but headed in the right direction yes.
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Post by knightfan64 on Nov 13, 2019 9:38:36 GMT -6
The program talent pool thing has been a point of contention with our staff.....we are perhaps the least flashiest team in our league in terms of athletes. Yet we went 6-4, made the postseason for just the 4th time in 69 years and just the 14th winning season in 69 years. Got back from all league voting yesterday and we got more first teamers last year with a 1-9 record which is funny, but sort of defines our league. Got a great QB, over 2200 total yards, but our league champ has a kid offered FBS. Got some good defensive kids but the league champ has another FBS guy, and the league runner up has a couple of D2 kids. I get a kick out of it, but we recruit the heck out of our building and do the best we can. Just hoping to take advantage of the momentum.
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Post by somecoach on Nov 18, 2019 21:17:18 GMT -6
(a) get better football bodies into the building
(b) get into a lower classification so you can play teams with your lack level of talent, until you get better talent and win that lower division championship
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RnS-OC
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117 
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Post by RnS-OC on Nov 19, 2019 11:38:53 GMT -6
The program talent pool thing has been a point of contention with our staff.....we are perhaps the least flashiest team in our league in terms of athletes. Yet we went 6-4, made the postseason for just the 4th time in 69 years and just the 14th winning season in 69 years. Got back from all league voting yesterday and we got more first teamers last year with a 1-9 record which is funny, but sort of defines our league. Got a great QB, over 2200 total yards, but our league champ has a kid offered FBS. Got some good defensive kids but the league champ has another FBS guy, and the league runner up has a couple of D2 kids. I get a kick out of it, but we recruit the heck out of our building and do the best we can. Just hoping to take advantage of the momentum. We just completed our most dominant regular season as a result of talent development and having a lot of varsity experience. I think one of the most important skill sets for a coaching staff is talent evaluation. We have kids transfer out who end up playing out of position at neighboring schools and we have also had kids transfer in who were underutilized at their prior school. If Freshmen enter your program with league average talent then it is very possible to mold them into a dominant force - this is what has worked for us. Our JV program has been pretty average but this always ends up translating to very good varsity teams as their bodies develop. |
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