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Post by fantom on Oct 5, 2019 13:05:43 GMT -6
I'm watching a college game- doesn't matter which- and something's happened that we see a lot. One team started out hot, scored a bunch of points in the first quarter, but hasn't done a thing since offensively. What causes that? I'm not asking as a fan but as a coach who wonders how to avoid having the same thing happening to his team.
The first impulse would be to blame it on conservative play calling. That doesn't seem to be the case here. The offense doesn't seem to be executing.
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 5, 2019 15:23:56 GMT -6
I think it is a DC who makes some subtle changes in his defense. I have seen things like this and that was my conclusion.
However, conservative play-calling has some fault in this. Or...perhaps it's an offense that doesn't have that killer instinct?
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Post by fantom on Oct 5, 2019 15:26:55 GMT -6
I think it is a DC who makes some subtle changes in his defense. I have seen things like this and that was my conclusion. However, conservative play-calling has some fault in this. Or...perhaps it's an offense that doesn't have that killer instinct? The bast answer when somebody says that you shouldn't get too conservative might be the Falcons in the Super Bowl.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 6, 2019 20:09:12 GMT -6
It's been commonly observed that some boxers aren't properly warmed up until they've been punched around enough. I've seen it in children's football too.
I think chi5hi's on to something in suspecting this change in results is because of a change on defense. However, I think that change may not be subtle -- or if it's subtle, it's a different kind of subtle than an adjustment.
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Post by dytmook on Oct 7, 2019 7:07:02 GMT -6
I think a lot of times the offense comes out with subtle gameplan things and takes a few series for the defense to adjust. I've seen the same thing happen offensively. Suddenly, you are just making big plays. You figured out the defense and can now call to be more successful.
I have seen us have that happen this year both ways. Defense struggled early and then tightened up. Offense was slow starting but real hot in the second half.
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Post by fantom on Oct 7, 2019 7:49:10 GMT -6
I think a lot of times the offense comes out with subtle gameplan things and takes a few series for the defense to adjust. I've seen the same thing happen offensively. Suddenly, you are just making big plays. You figured out the defense and can now call to be more successful. I have seen us have that happen this year both ways. Defense struggled early and then tightened up. Offense was slow starting but real hot in the second half. I think that there's something to that. I think there's something else, not a different theory but an additional factor. I think that when they get that big lead players lose a little bit of edge, a little bit of focus. It's not conscious. It's not overconfidence. It's just the tiny bit of lack of focus that makes the difference between a great catch and a drop, a QB dropping the ball on a dime and overthrowing by two inches, making that reach block and stopping one step short.
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Post by pvogel on Oct 7, 2019 8:30:52 GMT -6
Agree on the subtle D adjustments. Usually the best adjustments are minor ones.
I will also say that sometimes as an OC you run your early game script and then venture back into your comfort zone... when in reality that script was repped and perfected all week. Sometimes it pays to run through that thing multiple times (or reduce your game plan in general but that is another discussion)
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Post by poundtherock1 on Oct 7, 2019 9:07:00 GMT -6
Agree on the subtle D adjustments. Usually the best adjustments are minor ones. I will also say that sometimes as an OC you run your early game script and then venture back into your comfort zone... when in reality that script was repped and perfected all week. Sometimes it pays to run through that thing multiple times (or reduce your game plan in general but that is another discussion) This is hands down my biggest weakness as a play caller and something I am constantly trying to break free of. Especially when what you are comfortable with isn't necessarily what your players are best at executing.
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Post by pvogel on Oct 7, 2019 10:17:11 GMT -6
Agree on the subtle D adjustments. Usually the best adjustments are minor ones. I will also say that sometimes as an OC you run your early game script and then venture back into your comfort zone... when in reality that script was repped and perfected all week. Sometimes it pays to run through that thing multiple times (or reduce your game plan in general but that is another discussion) This is hands down my biggest weakness as a play caller and something I am constantly trying to break free of. Especially when what you are comfortable with isn't necessarily what your players are best at executing. Absolutely. What SHOULD be working vs. what IS working is such a big deal.
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Post by carookie on Oct 7, 2019 10:23:58 GMT -6
For us as of late, we run out of smoke and mirrors.
We are very injured, and significantly less athletically gifted then most our opponents; if we just tried to line up and run our stuff vs their stuff we would get ground down to a pulp. But we can always come up with some new wrinkle to steal a TD or two early on. But eventually the opposition will catch on and realize whats going on- kinda like hey, that kid at QB can't throw and is just running option plays we don't need to cover the receivers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 7:55:30 GMT -6
I'm watching a college game- doesn't matter which- and something's happened that we see a lot. One team started out hot, scored a bunch of points in the first quarter, but hasn't done a thing since offensively. What causes that? I'm not asking as a fan but as a coach who wonders how to avoid having the same thing happening to his team. The first impulse would be to blame it on conservative play calling. That doesn't seem to be the case here. The offense doesn't seem to be executing. This happened to us in our season opener. We came out very fired up and scored 20 points in the first quarter, then took a 3 TD lead into halftime. In the second half we did nothing offensively and our defense collapsed. We lost the game by a TD. What happened to us there was that we came out very hyped up with adrenaline surging while the opponent came out kind of flat to start the game. By halftime, that initial surge of hormones and activity had passed and we crashed psychologically, which led to a lack of focus and execution that killed us in the second half--all while they came out very intense and fired up for the second half after their coaches ripped their @$$es in the locker room. When it stopped coming easily to us, our kids got frustrated, which took them out of the game and led to our QB making some questionable decisions to force the issue. We were just completely out of rhythm offensively. Our opponent also made a few adjustments on both sides of the ball that made it harder for us. After feeling out our defense and finding the weak points to exploit, they went to their option game. This coincided with our defenders also losing focus--they started freelancing and paid more attention to the officials than to doing their jobs, which allowed their stud QB to gash us on keeps because our QB player was taking himself out of the play. You can only sustain that initial "rah rah!" intensity for so long before it runs out of steam. It's just physiology. I don't know how many times I've seen teams come out hot and blow the doors off people early and then go limp. Conversely, if a team does that in the second half, it usually works out better for them.
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Post by carookie on Oct 8, 2019 10:06:59 GMT -6
I think it also could be as simple as mean regressions. That isn't as interesting or fun of an answer, but probably a lot of truth in there
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Post by coachcb on Oct 8, 2019 12:18:38 GMT -6
We had this happen last week. A spread offense came out in a tackle over, 32 personnel set that we weren't prepared for (they were surprisingly good at it..) I called two time outs to get us adjusted but they'd scored twice on us before that. They caught us one more time on PA but we got that squared away at half time. We made some personnel changes that destroyed the set in the second half.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 8, 2019 15:29:41 GMT -6
We came out very fired up and scored 20 points in the first quarter, then took a 3 TD lead into halftime. In the second half we did nothing offensively and our defense collapsed. We lost the game by a TD. That's one of the reasons I love American football. A lot of other sports, the equivalent could practically never happen in. You have a 3-goal lead at halftime in soccer, it's in the bag. Equivalent leads in many other sports mean you're so dominant the opposition has no shot at a comeback, and in some of them if you got such a lead by luck you can play so defensively as to seal it.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Oct 9, 2019 14:31:12 GMT -6
I saw a high school game Friday night where a team lost 38-14, after they were up 14-0 after the 1st quarter, had the ball for almost 10 minutes, and the other team ran 3 offensive plays. The other school scored midway through the 2nd, kickoff was a touch back, refs spotted the ball wrong at the 25 instead of the 20, team ran a play and gained 9 yards, refs got together and talked about it, spotted the ball back to the 20 where it should have been for the touch back, and then replayed the down. The team lost the 9 yard gain, and all the momentum they had on offense. Seemed like it was where the slide started. After dominating the 1st quarter, they didn't do anything the rest of the night.
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Post by fantom on Oct 9, 2019 18:21:59 GMT -6
We came out very fired up and scored 20 points in the first quarter, then took a 3 TD lead into halftime. In the second half we did nothing offensively and our defense collapsed. We lost the game by a TD. That's one of the reasons I love American football. A lot of other sports, the equivalent could practically never happen in. You have a 3-goal lead at halftime in soccer, it's in the bag. Equivalent leads in many other sports mean you're so dominant the opposition has no shot at a comeback, and in some of them if you got such a lead by luck you can play so defensively as to seal it. Another way of looking at it is that football's scoring system makes a lead seem really big when it really isn't. Being down 21 points sounds like a lot but it's really just 3 scores. Baseball teams come back from 0-3 deficits all the time.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2019 14:38:43 GMT -6
That's one of the reasons I love American football. A lot of other sports, the equivalent could practically never happen in. You have a 3-goal lead at halftime in soccer, it's in the bag. Equivalent leads in many other sports mean you're so dominant the opposition has no shot at a comeback, and in some of them if you got such a lead by luck you can play so defensively as to seal it. Another way of looking at it is that football's scoring system makes a lead seem really big when it really isn't. Being down 21 points sounds like a lot but it's really just 3 scores. Baseball teams come back from 0-3 deficits all the time.
We've been trying to get this same point across to our team all year long... We were up on a team 8-0 all game long, they scored twice in the fourth to take a 14-8 lead and you'd think we were at a funeral. Our offense has been struggling which drags moral down a bit but we've scored on special teams and on defense all year. But, we just couldn't get that through to the kids, they hung their heads and we lost, 17-8.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 10, 2019 15:29:04 GMT -6
That's one of the reasons I love American football. A lot of other sports, the equivalent could practically never happen in. You have a 3-goal lead at halftime in soccer, it's in the bag. Equivalent leads in many other sports mean you're so dominant the opposition has no shot at a comeback, and in some of them if you got such a lead by luck you can play so defensively as to seal it. Another way of looking at it is that football's scoring system makes a lead seem really big when it really isn't. Being down 21 points sounds like a lot but it's really just 3 scores. Baseball teams come back from 0-3 deficits all the time. This is true and possibly one of the reasons these sports are popular in the USA.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 19:01:34 GMT -6
Either a coach is making an adjustments on the fly, ime is rare, or talent takes over, i see this a lot.
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