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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 21, 2019 13:39:45 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Sept 21, 2019 17:42:52 GMT -6
Jesus. Christ.
Cell phone video has been around for like 479 years now. How these dumbasses don't realize that these clips are going to come back to haunt them is beyond me.
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Post by carookie on Sept 21, 2019 21:02:47 GMT -6
Look, I am not trying to diminish anyone's race based struggles, or the history of racism which has been prevalent in our society; so please don't take my question to be doing so. Nor am I trying to justify what the players did, or diminish their actions.
I am simply trying to figure out where the tipping point or line is between- punish players and let them play, suspend the specific offending players, and cancel game? I can't find the video online; the most detailed description of the video I have come across claims that one player used the "N-Word twice", while others used vulgar language in a clip that totaled 10 seconds.
Now I am not asking what everyone's opinions on society are, or what we think should happen, rather what is the reality for people in their various situations?
Does one kid, posting a video using a racist slur once equal an automatic cancellation? What if there were no racist slurs, could that same type video lead to a cancellation?
I have been party to some fairly intense rivalies where gang violence, weapons, and arrests were quite common, yet these games never got cancelled. Is it simply the use of a racist term or is it more?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 22, 2019 6:02:20 GMT -6
Look, I am not trying to diminish anyone's race based struggles, or the history of racism which has been prevalent in our society; so please don't take my question to be doing so. Nor am I trying to justify what the players did, or diminish their actions. I am simply trying to figure out where the tipping point or line is between- punish players and let them play, suspend the specific offending players, and cancel game? I can't find the video online; the most detailed description of the video I have come across claims that one player used the "N-Word twice", while others used vulgar language in a clip that totaled 10 seconds. Now I am not asking what everyone's opinions on society are, or what we think should happen, rather what is the reality for people in their various situations? Does one kid, posting a video using a racist slur once equal an automatic cancellation? What if there were no racist slurs, could that same type video lead to a cancellation? I have been party to some fairly intense rivalies where gang violence, weapons, and arrests were quite common, yet these games never got cancelled. Is it simply the use of a racist term or is it more? I think it is probably more of the reaction to the video rather than the contents of the video itself that led to this particular decision |
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Sept 22, 2019 7:15:06 GMT -6
Look, I am not trying to diminish anyone's race based struggles, or the history of racism which has been prevalent in our society; so please don't take my question to be doing so. Nor am I trying to justify what the players did, or diminish their actions. I am simply trying to figure out where the tipping point or line is between- punish players and let them play, suspend the specific offending players, and cancel game? I can't find the video online; the most detailed description of the video I have come across claims that one player used the "N-Word twice", while others used vulgar language in a clip that totaled 10 seconds. Now I am not asking what everyone's opinions on society are, or what we think should happen, rather what is the reality for people in their various situations? Does one kid, posting a video using a racist slur once equal an automatic cancellation? What if there were no racist slurs, could that same type video lead to a cancellation? I have been party to some fairly intense rivalies where gang violence, weapons, and arrests were quite common, yet these games never got cancelled. Is it simply the use of a racist term or is it more? There needs to be a little more context, but generally aside from the horrific remarks there is added tension that goes beyond the racist remark(s). If one school involved is traditionally a Sundown community or of the racial / religious majority and this happens against a a minority community there is fear of community wide reprisals and violence. Remember football is, whether we like it or not, a form of ritualistic combat for many communities. Upper middle class/ Rich vs. Poor or working class; white vs. minority; religion 1 vs. religion 2 (ex Mormon community vs other Christian sect, or catholic vs Jewish community). The community has to do what they did or they are giving implicit consent to what the players, representing their community, did for all the world to see on social media. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 8:21:01 GMT -6
Which will come first:
1. A camera for everything and i do mean everything
Or
2. Somebody pulls the plug on the internet.
Imo, i can see both being given validation. And causing serious problems. We are all but at #1 now.
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Post by Coach.A on Sept 22, 2019 12:42:30 GMT -6
Will there eventually be pressure for the Tioga "Indians" to change their name/mascot?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 22, 2019 12:46:39 GMT -6
Will there eventually be pressure for the Tioga "Indians" to change their name/mascot? Eh, at some point all places might. However the reality of the situation is the only places that receive that type of pressure are much more populated locations. Tioga's entire population is less than the enrollment of some of the largest high schools in Louisiana. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 22, 2019 12:50:00 GMT -6
Look, I am not trying to diminish anyone's race based struggles, or the history of racism which has been prevalent in our society; so please don't take my question to be doing so. Nor am I trying to justify what the players did, or diminish their actions. I am simply trying to figure out where the tipping point or line is between- punish players and let them play, suspend the specific offending players, and cancel game? I can't find the video online; the most detailed description of the video I have come across claims that one player used the "N-Word twice", while others used vulgar language in a clip that totaled 10 seconds. Now I am not asking what everyone's opinions on society are, or what we think should happen, rather what is the reality for people in their various situations? Does one kid, posting a video using a racist slur once equal an automatic cancellation? What if there were no racist slurs, could that same type video lead to a cancellation? I have been party to some fairly intense rivalies where gang violence, weapons, and arrests were quite common, yet these games never got cancelled. Is it simply the use of a racist term or is it more? There needs to be a little more context, but generally aside from the horrific remarks there is added tension that goes beyond the racist remark(s). If one school involved is traditionally a Sundown community or of the racial / religious majority and this happens against a a minority community there is fear of community wide reprisals and violence. Remember football is, whether we like it or not, a form of ritualistic combat for many communities. Upper middle class/ Rich vs. Poor or working class; white vs. minority; religion 1 vs. religion 2 (ex Mormon community vs other Christian sect, or catholic vs Jewish community). The community has to do what they did or they are giving implicit consent to what the players, representing their community, did for all the world to see on social media. I get the dynamic of it being a community with a demographic who is in power vs those who have been traditionally disenfranchised; but would kicking the offending player off the team be sufficient in this case? Or is it assumed that the single player who made the statement represents the team as a whole, and as such the team as a whole (and by extension all team members) are guilty of making the comments? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 23, 2019 8:52:05 GMT -6
Although I don't like the entire program being punished for a few kids' poor behavior, I believe that a hard line needs to be set when it comes to this stuff. Honestly, it doesn't seem like much deters this crap with the cell-phones so administrations are taking a firmer stance on it. Good Lord, we had a kid who was up on child pornography charges because of some pics he was sharing on his cell phone but that didn't stop him from taking a nasty video in a school bathroom and sharing it with everyone.
We had another kid stand next to a swastika flag and spew out a bunch of racist chit, share it all over the place and he was suspended from school for a week over it. The school banned him from having a cell phone at school but his parents threw a fit over it. The kid was kicked off of the basketball team, a Hispanic kid he sent the video to was pressing charges and yet his folks still felt he was entitled to his phone.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 23, 2019 10:51:01 GMT -6
I realize I'm probably in the great minority here but I think the reaction is what is making this a big deal. Kids have been insulting each other since the dawn of time. You give power to a couple of jackasses when a few backwards things said by them causes you to cancel an entire event. Sit them or bounce them from the team, now they are yesterday's news. When every molehill is made to be a mountain the true mountains are insurmountable.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 23, 2019 11:00:25 GMT -6
I realize I'm probably in the great minority here but I think the reaction is what is making this a big deal. Kids have been insulting each other since the dawn of time. You give power to a couple of jackasses when a few backwards things said by them causes you to cancel an entire event. Sit them or bounce them from the team, now they are yesterday's news. When every molehill is made to be a mountain the true mountains are insurmountable.
You could be right; the media attention this gets sensationalizes the situations. With that being said, I'm a proponent of these measures from an administrative standpoint. One of the worst parts of being an AD was dealing with this kind of crap with cell phones. We took all kinds of preventative measures but we still had a number of incidents with cell phones in athletics. I had to talk to the police on several occasions because kids were extremely inappropriate with cell phones. We even banned them completely during away games but kids would still sneak in second phones and pull crap.
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klaby
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Post by klaby on Sept 24, 2019 12:45:14 GMT -6
It doesn't say that? It says that they spoke to the sheriff. It doesn't say that Law enforcement was a driving force for canceling? I am sure the Sheriff says what all LEs say, "we will ensure the safety or the players and the fans". Which is cop talk for a bunch of coppers on OT making sure everyone sees them and that nothing stupid happens. |
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Post by planck on Sept 24, 2019 13:06:29 GMT -6
I realize I'm probably in the great minority here but I think the reaction is what is making this a big deal. Kids have been insulting each other since the dawn of time. You give power to a couple of jackasses when a few backwards things said by them causes you to cancel an entire event. Sit them or bounce them from the team, now they are yesterday's news. When every molehill is made to be a mountain the true mountains are insurmountable. I understand your point, but in the past if you couldn't prove someone was doing something horrible, that was the end of it. Now, you can easily show when someone is an {censored}.
It's not that we're more sensitive to the behavior now, it's that the idiots are documenting their stupidity so they can be more easily punished.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 24, 2019 13:23:36 GMT -6
I realize I'm probably in the great minority here but I think the reaction is what is making this a big deal. Kids have been insulting each other since the dawn of time. You give power to a couple of jackasses when a few backwards things said by them causes you to cancel an entire event. Sit them or bounce them from the team, now they are yesterday's news. When every molehill is made to be a mountain the true mountains are insurmountable. I understand your point, but in the past if you couldn't prove someone was doing something horrible, that was the end of it. Now, you can easily show when someone is an {censored}.
It's not that we're more sensitive to the behavior now, it's that the idiots are documenting their stupidity so they can be more easily punished.
Again, probably in the great minority here but kids saying rude/nasty things doesn't rise to the level of horrible in my opinion. For the most part, high school boys are dipshits. I'm not going to be surprised when they do something dipshitty. I'm going to save the "horrible" label for things like sexual assault, theft, physical assault, or if a group of kids surrounds a single kid and verbally assaults him to the point the kid feels his safety is in jeopardy. A couple of jackass kids making some backwards racial comments is awful and regrettable but it really says more about the kid saying it than it does the object of it.
I remember when I played a high school game against a team a kid yelled, "We effed your moms last night" and they all started laughing. A lot of guys were mad, there was some shoving, etc. but that was it. Our coaches separated us and told us, "They're just words. Unless they actually effed your moms last night who cares?" After the game we were walking back to the bus and a bunch of their fans started throwing bottles, rocks and sticks at us. THAT was different and the cops got involved.
I'm not excusing the behavior of the kids that did the offensive racial stuff. I get it. My immediate family looks like a UN conference - there's a white, a brown, a yellow, a black and two beige. We hear racial stuff all the time. I would try to educate those kids and if they doubled down on their ignorance they would be off my team. I just don't get blowing up the entire deal based on the behavior of a few.
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2019 15:05:42 GMT -6
I understand your point, but in the past if you couldn't prove someone was doing something horrible, that was the end of it. Now, you can easily show when someone is an {censored}.
It's not that we're more sensitive to the behavior now, it's that the idiots are documenting their stupidity so they can be more easily punished.
Again, probably in the great minority here but kids saying rude/nasty things doesn't rise to the level of horrible in my opinion. For the most part, high school boys are dipshits. I'm not going to be surprised when they do something dipshitty. I'm going to save the "horrible" label for things like sexual assault, theft, physical assault, or if a group of kids surrounds a single kid and verbally assaults him to the point the kid feels his safety is in jeopardy. A couple of jackass kids making some backwards racial comments is awful and regrettable but it really says more about the kid saying it than it does the object of it.
I remember when I played a high school game against a team a kid yelled, "We effed your moms last night" and they all started laughing. A lot of guys were mad, there was some shoving, etc. but that was it. Our coaches separated us and told us, "They're just words. Unless they actually effed your moms last night who cares?" After the game we were walking back to the bus and a bunch of their fans started throwing bottles, rocks and sticks at us. THAT was different and the cops got involved.
I'm not excusing the behavior of the kids that did the offensive racial stuff. I get it. My immediate family looks like a UN conference - there's a white, a brown, a yellow, a black and two beige. We hear racial stuff all the time. I would try to educate those kids and if they doubled down on their ignorance they would be off my team. I just don't get blowing up the entire deal based on the behavior of a few.
Institutional control vs personal responsibility. Don't punish the offender, but rather the larger organization of which they are a part of, happens all the time. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 24, 2019 16:18:38 GMT -6
I realize I'm probably in the great minority here but I think the reaction is what is making this a big deal. Kids have been insulting each other since the dawn of time. You give power to a couple of jackasses when a few backwards things said by them causes you to cancel an entire event. Sit them or bounce them from the team, now they are yesterday's news. When every molehill is made to be a mountain the true mountains are insurmountable. I understand your point, but in the past if you couldn't prove someone was doing something horrible, that was the end of it. Now, you can easily show when someone is an {censored}.
It's not that we're more sensitive to the behavior now, it's that the idiots are documenting their stupidity so they can be more easily punished.
Not just that but social media allows loudmouths to broadcast their foolishness to the whole world and it never goes away. Twenty years ago the kids in my first post may have the same things (Well, their fathers may have) but nobody heard it but the other drunks in the room. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 17:07:49 GMT -6
Anybody who thinks our or any other culture is eliminating hate and other like idiocy is drunk with stupidity.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 24, 2019 17:56:46 GMT -6
It doesn't say that? It says that they spoke to the sheriff. It doesn't say that Law enforcement was a driving force for canceling? I am sure the Sheriff says what all LEs say, "we will ensure the safety or the players and the fans". Which is cop talk for a bunch of coppers on OT making sure everyone sees them and that nothing stupid happens. Notice at the bottom where it says "after guidance from Sheriff Hilton..." According to the locals (fan message boards, newspaper comment section etc) law enforcement strongly supported the idea of cancelling . |
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Sept 24, 2019 18:27:01 GMT -6
There needs to be a little more context, but generally aside from the horrific remarks there is added tension that goes beyond the racist remark(s). If one school involved is traditionally a Sundown community or of the racial / religious majority and this happens against a a minority community there is fear of community wide reprisals and violence. Remember football is, whether we like it or not, a form of ritualistic combat for many communities. Upper middle class/ Rich vs. Poor or working class; white vs. minority; religion 1 vs. religion 2 (ex Mormon community vs other Christian sect, or catholic vs Jewish community). The community has to do what they did or they are giving implicit consent to what the players, representing their community, did for all the world to see on social media. I get the dynamic of it being a community with a demographic who is in power vs those who have been traditionally disenfranchised; but would kicking the offending player off the team be sufficient in this case? Or is it assumed that the single player who made the statement represents the team as a whole, and as such the team as a whole (and by extension all team members) are guilty of making the comments? Not trying to get into an argument or be facetious but it wasn’t a single player, the article says “A racist video that featured a few Buckeye High School football players went viral Tuesday night.” So it wasn’t just one kid. We will chew a kid out or kick a kid off a team for way less, when several players do that and create an unsafe situation via a social media message we gotta send a message. We live in a day and era where kids threats and racial slurs have to be taken seriously. Remember schools only integrated nationally 62 years ago. When you call people racial epithets it’s a threat to their existence. In a state like Louisiana it makes complete sense what the school board did. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 24, 2019 18:50:19 GMT -6
I get the dynamic of it being a community with a demographic who is in power vs those who have been traditionally disenfranchised; but would kicking the offending player off the team be sufficient in this case? Or is it assumed that the single player who made the statement represents the team as a whole, and as such the team as a whole (and by extension all team members) are guilty of making the comments? Not trying to get into an argument or be facetious but it wasn’t a single player, the article says “A racist video that featured a few Buckeye High School football players went viral Tuesday night.” So it wasn’t just one kid. We will chew a kid out or kick a kid off a team for way less, when several players do that and create an unsafe situation via a social media message we gotta send a message. We live in a day and era where kids threats and racial slurs have to be taken seriously. Remember schools only integrated nationally 62 years ago. When you call people racial epithets it’s a threat to their existence. In a state like Louisiana it makes complete sense what the school board did. Often, when these things happen, there are always prominent community members who will issue public statements like "we condemn these actions. What these kids said doesn't reflect who our community is." Whenever I hear those statements, one of my first thoughts is, "Ehhhh...I kind of think what these kids said DOES reflect who your community is, at least a little."  |
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2019 20:09:13 GMT -6
I get the dynamic of it being a community with a demographic who is in power vs those who have been traditionally disenfranchised; but would kicking the offending player off the team be sufficient in this case? Or is it assumed that the single player who made the statement represents the team as a whole, and as such the team as a whole (and by extension all team members) are guilty of making the comments? Not trying to get into an argument or be facetious but it wasn’t a single player, the article says “A racist video that featured a few Buckeye High School football players went viral Tuesday night.” So it wasn’t just one kid. We will chew a kid out or kick a kid off a team for way less, when several players do that and create an unsafe situation via a social media message we gotta send a message. We live in a day and era where kids threats and racial slurs have to be taken seriously. Remember schools only integrated nationally 62 years ago. When you call people racial epithets it’s a threat to their existence. In a state like Louisiana it makes complete sense what the school board did. I believe it was two kids (if I remember what I looked up elsewhere). But I guess thats kind of the question I'm wondering; how many kids make it where you punish the whole team? 1 kid, 2 kids, when do we say everyone suffers for the action of the few? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 24, 2019 20:13:50 GMT -6
Not trying to get into an argument or be facetious but it wasn’t a single player, the article says “A racist video that featured a few Buckeye High School football players went viral Tuesday night.” So it wasn’t just one kid. We will chew a kid out or kick a kid off a team for way less, when several players do that and create an unsafe situation via a social media message we gotta send a message. We live in a day and era where kids threats and racial slurs have to be taken seriously. Remember schools only integrated nationally 62 years ago. When you call people racial epithets it’s a threat to their existence. In a state like Louisiana it makes complete sense what the school board did. I believe it was two kids (if I remember what I looked up elsewhere). But I guess thats kind of the question I'm wondering; how many kids make it where you punish the whole team? 1 kid, 2 kids, when do we say everyone suffers for the action of the few? In this case, I don't think it was cancelled because of a punishment. It was cancelled because of the tensions and unrest in the community and fear of it leading to violence. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 24, 2019 20:24:55 GMT -6
I believe it was two kids (if I remember what I looked up elsewhere). But I guess thats kind of the question I'm wondering; how many kids make it where you punish the whole team? 1 kid, 2 kids, when do we say everyone suffers for the action of the few? In this case, I don't think it was cancelled because of a punishment. It was cancelled because of the tensions and unrest in the community and fear of it leading to violence. Same here. I'm not sure that all of us work in the same environment. |
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Sept 25, 2019 15:32:20 GMT -6
I believe it was two kids (if I remember what I looked up elsewhere). But I guess thats kind of the question I'm wondering; how many kids make it where you punish the whole team? 1 kid, 2 kids, when do we say everyone suffers for the action of the few? In this case, I don't think it was cancelled because of a punishment. It was cancelled because of the tensions and unrest in the community and fear of it leading to violence. THIS is exactly what I am saying and why the cancellation(s) we have talked about have ensued. All it takes is a few students in the stands or some asshat adults to boil it over and make the game a dangerous situation. |
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klaby
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Post by klaby on Oct 9, 2019 11:16:12 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2019 18:41:20 GMT -6
And now...for the rest of the story. The chant in question has been a part of the program since before this current staff was in place. The fans for that team have been hollering in the stands for the coach to be fired after a 6 win season last year and a 3-2 start this year. The Admin used this as the perfect opportunity |
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Post by CS on Oct 9, 2019 19:14:45 GMT -6
And now...for the rest of the story. The chant in question has been a part of the program since before this current staff was in place. The fans for that team have been hollering in the stands for the coach to be fired after a 6 win season last year and a 3-2 start this year. The Admin used this as the perfect opportunity So black people cant use the (clears throat to do nerdy white journalists voice from broadcast) “n word” anymore? I guess I should stop calling all of our white players honkies |
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Post by newhope on Oct 10, 2019 6:44:29 GMT -6
I'm not sure why so many of you see this as "punishment" for the team. Law enforcement and administration determined it's a safety issue. We had a game cancelled in our state. It was a safety issue, largely caused by outsiders. When you get the Charlottesville crowd threatening to show up to protest at a high school game--it's a safety issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 7:28:15 GMT -6
Research NBA and CHINA. NBA. BALLGAGGED for a reason.
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