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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 21:35:58 GMT -6
How do battle you perception of when every game is important? I do not know a coach who tells there kids we should beat this team by.. And if you are looking for consistency, does it really matter who the opp. is? PURELY FROM A COACHING PERSPECTIVE.
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Post by carookie on Sept 8, 2019 0:14:22 GMT -6
How do battle you perception of when every game is important? I do not know a coach who tells there kids we should beat this team by..And if you are looking for consistency, does it really matter who the opp. is? PURELY FROM A COACHING PERSPECTIVE. Not to hijack the thread, but I find the bolded portion interesting. I have gone into a number of games against weaker opponents (and am sure have been on the other end) where I have told the players they should dominate (win by x amount). Its not a weekly occurrence, but the kids know for the most part when they are playing a lesser opponent and I think it requires a different sort of mindset & preparation. I think ignoring the elephant is more likely to lead to let downs and playing to the opponents level than addressing it honestly and forthright.
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 8, 2019 0:23:35 GMT -6
It would disappoint me if my players weren't celebrating after a double overtime win, regardless of if we were the favorites or what the circumstances were. In the postgame talk, you acknowledge you have A LOT to work on, but even then I don't think you rain on the parade until the next practice.
Sidenote: I put my beloved Wolverines on upset alert as soon as I saw this game on the schedule. While not anticipating double overtime, I thought it would be a tough game.
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Post by blb on Sept 8, 2019 6:37:04 GMT -6
Maybe it's as simple as the Michigan kids still enjoy playing and winning games, unlike jaded, long-time coaches.
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Post by jlenwood on Sept 8, 2019 6:47:33 GMT -6
Celebrate every win. They dont always happen and they arent always easy. 24 hour rule, you get 24 hours to celebrate the win, then we gotta get our mistakes corrected and start moving on to the next opponent. Yes, I get that. I guess carookie is correct in that while celebrating a hard earned win is absolutely acceptable, I think that vaulting into the stands to celebrate a win against a program that by the metric/standards Michigan "should" be judging themselves against should have been a much easier task would worry me that my team doesn't have what it takes to make it where we want. So my question was how does a coach handle that. Seems like the consensus is "there is nothing to handle" I see it as Mich being so mediocre (at best) for the last several years, they are just juiced to win ANY game. I also thought it was kind of weird to be so pumped after "escaping" a loss, but in hindsight they made some very good defensive plays in OT, so yea I would be pumped too. Also, with 104K fans screaming their heads off it would be hard not to get excited. For whatever reason, Harbaugh just can't seem to work his magic there like he did other places, at least so far.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 8, 2019 8:17:49 GMT -6
Yes, I get that. I guess carookie is correct in that while celebrating a hard earned win is absolutely acceptable, I think that vaulting into the stands to celebrate a win against a program that by the metric/standards Michigan "should" be judging themselves against should have been a much easier task would worry me that my team doesn't have what it takes to make it where we want. So my question was how does a coach handle that. Seems like the consensus is "there is nothing to handle" I see it as Mich being so mediocre (at best) for the last several years, they are just juiced to win ANY game. I also thought it was kind of weird to be so pumped after "escaping" a loss, but in hindsight they made some very good defensive plays in OT, so yea I would be pumped too. Also, with 104K fans screaming their heads off it would be hard not to get excited. For whatever reason, Harbaugh just can't seem to work his magic there like he did other places, at least so far. I know this isn’t a fan thread but Harbaugh has won 10, 10, 8, 10 and is 2-0 to start this one. They are good just not elite. I am not a Michigan fan and really an anyone fan. From a coaching perspective it is so weird that people’s judgement so is so skewed for the “now.” If Michigan were to run the tables, people would talk about how tough Michigan was in withstanding a scrappy and underestimated Army team in week two. They would talk about how it took Harbaugh five years to reach the top but it was because Harbaugh was establishing a base and “building culture” which doesn’t happen overnight. It’s so silly the reactionary nature of athletics. Alabama can go from the best team of all time one week to Saban can’t win against Clemson because he doesn’t have a slide in his office.
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Post by blb on Sept 8, 2019 8:57:01 GMT -6
I had a couple seasons where most Friday nights winning was not even a consideration, thought we might have to fight just to save the equipment.
In addition to humility it taught me to appreciate-enjoy every victory, even if it was over School for the Blind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 9:46:12 GMT -6
I see it as Mich being so mediocre (at best) for the last several years, they are just juiced to win ANY game. I also thought it was kind of weird to be so pumped after "escaping" a loss, but in hindsight they made some very good defensive plays in OT, so yea I would be pumped too. Also, with 104K fans screaming their heads off it would be hard not to get excited. For whatever reason, Harbaugh just can't seem to work his magic there like he did other places, at least so far. I know this isn’t a fan thread but Harbaugh has won 10, 10, 8, 10 and is 2-0 to start this one. They are good just not elite. I am not a Michigan fan and really an anyone fan. From a coaching perspective it is so weird that people’s judgement so is so skewed for the “now.” If Michigan were to run the tables, people would talk about how tough Michigan was in withstanding a scrappy and underestimated Army team in week two. They would talk about how it took Harbaugh five years to reach the top but it was because Harbaugh was establishing a base and “building culture” which doesn’t happen overnight. It’s so silly the reactionary nature of athletics. Alabama can go from the best team of all time one week to Saban can’t win against Clemson because he doesn’t have a slide in his office. i love your post. I am not criticizing Michigan because i do not know how. If michigan executes its over in 5 minutes due to talent. But if michigan doesnt and they didnt, talent be dammed. Its now about intangibles... Not against central michigan,Nevada, whatever suckbag U agrees to a pay day in the big house. Its a military academy where every intangible goes to ARMY or said military academy hands down. And players on both sides know it. Once turns into a games of intangibles, everybody on that sideline has reason to celebrate at Michigan.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 8, 2019 9:47:24 GMT -6
I had a few seasons where most Friday nights winning was not even a consideration, thought we might have to fight just to save the equipment. In addition to humility it taught me to appreciate-enjoy every victory, even if it was over School for the Blind. I get it... but I would be concerned if your preseason aspirations were to win the state championship and your players were jumping in the stands to celebrate the win over the School for the Blind.
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Post by blb on Sept 8, 2019 9:52:08 GMT -6
To put a little bow on my feelings on subject, from what I see in CFB many teams go down to the student section after home games and if they don't do the Lambeau Leap if they have won they are at least high-fiving and fist-bumping them, then sing school song.
Seems to be a new tradition recently at a lot of places.
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Post by jlenwood on Sept 8, 2019 10:33:27 GMT -6
I see it as Mich being so mediocre (at best) for the last several years, they are just juiced to win ANY game. I also thought it was kind of weird to be so pumped after "escaping" a loss, but in hindsight they made some very good defensive plays in OT, so yea I would be pumped too. Also, with 104K fans screaming their heads off it would be hard not to get excited. For whatever reason, Harbaugh just can't seem to work his magic there like he did other places, at least so far. I know this isn’t a fan thread but Harbaugh has won 10, 10, 8, 10 and is 2-0 to start this one. They are good just not elite. I am not a Michigan fan and really an anyone fan. From a coaching perspective it is so weird that people’s judgement so is so skewed for the “now.” If Michigan were to run the tables, people would talk about how tough Michigan was in withstanding a scrappy and underestimated Army team in week two. They would talk about how it took Harbaugh five years to reach the top but it was because Harbaugh was establishing a base and “building culture” which doesn’t happen overnight. It’s so silly the reactionary nature of athletics. Alabama can go from the best team of all time one week to Saban can’t win against Clemson because he doesn’t have a slide in his office. Look, I think Harbaugh is a hell of a coach. Unfortunately he was brought to Mich to win against Ohio State (o-fer) and to win a conf championship and a national title. Sadly those three criteria haven't been met so he is judged harshly (unfairly in my opinion). I coached at a place once where we should have smoked another team and we squeaked out a victory, I say a win is a win and celebrate.
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Post by fantom on Sept 8, 2019 10:43:48 GMT -6
I had a few seasons where most Friday nights winning was not even a consideration, thought we might have to fight just to save the equipment. In addition to humility it taught me to appreciate-enjoy every victory, even if it was over School for the Blind. I get it... but I would be concerned if your preseason aspirations were to win the state championship and your players were jumping in the stands to celebrate the win over the School for the Blind. I have to say, I think you're WAAAAAAY overthinking this thing.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 8, 2019 10:49:57 GMT -6
I get it... but I would be concerned if your preseason aspirations were to win the state championship and your players were jumping in the stands to celebrate the win over the School for the Blind. I have to say, I think you're WAAAAAAY overthinking this thing. Eh, Herby (Herbstreit) validated me last night when he made similar comments. Good to know I am right and all of you are wrong HAHHA (jesting )
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Post by fantom on Sept 8, 2019 10:51:38 GMT -6
I have to say, I think you're WAAAAAAY overthinking this thing. Eh, Herby (Herbstreit) validated me last night when he made similar comments. Good to know I am right and all of you are wrong HAHHA (jesting ) Well, I didn't know that Herby said it. That changes everything.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 8, 2019 12:44:32 GMT -6
coachd5085, I get what you are saying and have already given my thoughts, but want to add one more. If they would have gone up 21-14 in regulation, gotten the ball back and taken a knee to end the game, I would imagine that the celebration would have been more to your liking. If they would have been up most of the game and won 28-14, I am positive that it would have been more to your liking. The fact they had to come back to tie, watch Army miss a field goal, get down in OT, and win in double OT while defeating a team with second longest win streak and a team that took Oklahoma to OT in Norman last year while keeping their own National Championship hopes alive is why they celebrated the way they did.
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Post by pitt1980 on Sept 12, 2019 10:28:12 GMT -6
I think this is a fair and interesting question.
My general philosophy is that I want to be process oriented and not scoreboard oriented.
I'd like my team to be that way, but I understand that my team isn't comprised of robots that I can program.
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I didn't actually see very much of the game in question, I did catch the final minute, the OT, and (I guess)the ensuing celebration.
I didn't see any of the first 59 minutes of the game, I don't have any real concept of how we got to 59 minutes, whether it was more Michigan playing poorly or Army playing really well,
I'm sure it was some mix of the two.
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When I was a kid, I read Bo Schembechler's autobiography, 1 tidbit that stuck with me.
He talked about how about how he always tried to set his mood opposite to the fans.
ie, when the team plays well, they get a lot of feedback around town about how great they are, what they need, is someone to remind them of their morality, so he would be especially critical of mistakes.
in contrast, after the team plays poorly, they get a lot of negative feedback from everyone else, so that's when he would try and remind them of the good things they were capable of accomplishing.
I was probably 10 when I read that, but its stuck with me.
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Yeah, I don't know, what's their feedback loop right now?
I saw the studio talking heads rip them later in the day? Does that filter back to the players? Do they need to be built up right now, or taken down a peg?
idk,
I think you'd probably need to be in the room to have a sense for that
My sense is that its typically a mistake for coaches to answer that when their emotions are raw right after the game
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My other sense for it, is that you're team's attention is finite, they can only take so much direction from you before you lose their attention.
How do you want to use their finite attention? Is coaching them on how to react after close games the best use of that attention?
It seems like their might be other things that happened in the 59 minutes before I tuned in that would be a better use of that attention.
Your mileage may vary.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 12, 2019 10:31:30 GMT -6
I think this is a fair and interesting question. My general philosophy is that I want to be process oriented and not scoreboard oriented. I'd like my team to be that way, but I understand that my team isn't comprised of robots that I can program. ---------- ---------- I didn't actually see very much of the game in question, I did catch the final minute, the OT, and (I guess)the ensuing celebration. I didn't see any of the first 59 minutes of the game, I don't have any real concept of how we got to 59 minutes, whether it was more Michigan playing poorly or Army playing really well, I'm sure it was some mix of the two. ---------- ---------- When I was a kid, I read Bo Schembechler's autobiography, 1 tidbit that stuck with me. He talked about how about how he always tried to set his mood opposite to the fans. ie, when the team plays well, they get a lot of feedback around town about how great they are, what they need, is someone to remind them of their morality, so he would be especially critical of mistakes. in contrast, after the team plays poorly, they get a lot of negative feedback from everyone else, so that's when he would try and remind them of the good things they were capable of accomplishing. I was probably 10 when I read that, but its stuck with me. ------------ ------------ Yeah, I don't know, what's their feedback loop right now? I saw the studio talking heads rip them later in the day? Does that filter back to the players? Do they need to be built up right now, or taken down a peg? idk, I think you'd probably need to be in the room to have a sense for that My sense is that its typically a mistake for coaches to answer that when their emotions are raw right after the game -------- My other sense for it, is that you're team's attention is finite, they can only take so much direction from you before you lose their attention. How do you want to use their finite attention? Is coaching them on how to react after close games the best use of that attention? It seems like their might be other things that happened in the 59 minutes before I tuned in that would be a better use of that attention. Your mileage may vary. OUTSTANDING
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Post by paydirt18 on Sept 12, 2019 11:01:37 GMT -6
Assuming we are all coaches on here, I think most would agree that Ws do not come easy. Ever. Maybe it looks easy to the casual fan sitting on the couch or in the stands....but it is not. So, given how the Army/Mich game went down, if I'm Michigan, let them celebrate. Enjoy the moment for 24 hours and then fix your mistakes. 5 years from now the only thing those kids will remember is that it was a W.
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