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Post by scarletandcream on Aug 31, 2019 10:07:35 GMT -6
Hello all, simple question here. What do you do when you are outmanned on the lines and gassed by mid second quarter? Small team here, only one sub for both lines. We played a team last night that was a semi two platoon squad so they had fresh bodies all night. We are an 8 man team so we have very little depth. We had the lead through mid second and then were down by a score at half then lost by 20.
Is it a conditioning issue or do I just need to find more viable bodies? We will have to play more teams this year like this.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 31, 2019 13:16:40 GMT -6
If most of your guys are playing both ways and most of their guys aren't, then you need to get more guys.
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Post by blb on Aug 31, 2019 13:26:06 GMT -6
If you are out-manned up front and other team has more depth (players) -
There is no answer, other than do the best you can.
Sometimes that's all you can do.
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Post by carookie on Aug 31, 2019 14:28:58 GMT -6
I have been there many times. Was in an 8-man league that kept getting bigger schools dropping down, we'd have 10-12 and opposition would have 20-25. Moreover, we were the smallest team physically speaking. Would get rest anyway we could. Would send out 6 guys for punt just to quick punt it out of bounds, worked the clock best we could, used the timeouts for rest, if we had a kid get mildly hurt I'd run out there and tell him to stay on the ground for a minute while everyone else got water (yeah its cheap but it helped).
I don't know what you run on offense, but we'd spread it out and run bubble and quick turn ins a lot which some of our OL would take plays off. We'd never tell them to do that, but I knew they would and needed it.
In lieu of that, yeah, you need more numbers
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Post by bignose on Aug 31, 2019 15:03:26 GMT -6
It doesn't sound like conditioning is an issue. Obviously, more players would help......
Keep the kids fresh during practice.
Helmet and shoulder pads most days, so they are as fresh as possible for games. Lots of reps on air.
Slow the game down and try to minimize your opponent's possessions.
Walk to the LOS, huddle every play. Milk the clock.
Don't fall into the trap of running high risk plays. Long, patient drives. It takes a lot more energy to play defense, than offense.
Don't do stuff to beat yourself.
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Post by CS on Aug 31, 2019 17:11:41 GMT -6
Everything big nose said and find a way to get kids out on offense and special teams. You can hide kids on O/S that you can’t on D
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Post by bigmoot on Aug 31, 2019 18:09:06 GMT -6
Sometimes it isn't about W And L...play well as you can for as long as you can and see where the chips fall.
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Post by coachdubyah on Aug 31, 2019 21:00:48 GMT -6
One thing I have done is “build in breaks on Special Teams” and find other ways to “rest” in game.
I know...I know you have to be sound on Special Teams, but I practice it once a week (Thursday’s). We “pooch” kick off (sometimes we onside). Idea is getting my players to sprint about 20 yards instead of 60.
Punt-Under 5 I go for it. Or I rugby punt it to land between numbers and sideline or it goes out of bounds. I only try and flip field 20 yards so again we are only running 20 yards.
Due to my special teams philosophy, I can rest kids at that time. Put some lesser players in.
Offense-Drain the clock. Get chunks with passes. Only quick game I use is Slants. I want shot plays. I do not play my Oline both ways. Run something that plays to their strengths but avoid playing them both ways. Fat guys get gassed before anyone.
PS: I have a “Wedge” team. Put in some kids that this is all they Block when they are in. We run actual wedge and some pop passes and quick screens off this. That helps rest guys too.
This may not be popular but, it’s what I do. I’ll let you know in a few weeks how it goes in the long run.
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Post by mrjvi on Sept 1, 2019 5:16:13 GMT -6
Being able to talk to the o-line in a game when the defense is on the field is tremendously helpful to me. Great any year I can do it.
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 1, 2019 11:23:06 GMT -6
The season has started, there’s nothing you can do for their conditioning at this point. Slow the pace as much as possible using all the little tricks and try to maintain possession as long as possible to keep their D on the field. That means going for it a lot more. When it doesn’t work you might lose by a lot but it’s your best chance at winning.
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Post by Coach.A on Sept 2, 2019 6:29:40 GMT -6
We have found that using a slow tempo no-huddle play-call system was better for slowing the game down and conserving energy vs. huddling. Having players run to and from the huddle after each snap can add up over the course of the game.
We also found the no-huddle communication system more effective for milking the clock. It was easier for us to have our players line up and get the call, then just wait until the play clock wound down to 5 seconds before we snapped the ball. When we used this strategy, we only had a couple formations though, so that made this easier to do.
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 3, 2019 13:17:17 GMT -6
And if you’re up to the line quickly they can’t sub on D, lest they be caught with their pants down.
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Post by 53 on Sept 3, 2019 19:48:22 GMT -6
I played for a HOF coach that would call a time out every 6 minutes into the quarter and save one timeout for end of half and game.
We would practice that way too. Really hard for 6 minutes and then a little break, so it was just kind of normal to us.
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Post by planck on Sept 3, 2019 20:15:34 GMT -6
Our varsity numbers are bad. Like 30 kids in the junior/senior class combined for a school of 1600. Sophs and freshmen are fine, that's another story. Anyway, HC is running the ball and the clock down from the kick off. Runners never go out of bounds.
On Friday, there were 10 combined possessions in our game. If you can churn a first down now and then, it's possible to dramatically shorten the game.
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 4, 2019 7:33:31 GMT -6
There was an old legendary “mad scientist” coach at my HS who allegedly went into a game with 14 players on a miserable day and won by punting the ball back as soon as it was caught. The returner would catch the ball, take what he could, and boot it back, so he kept their same 12 guys on the field all game while their D slowly froze to death on the sideline until the 4th quarter.
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Post by Victor on Sept 4, 2019 15:02:41 GMT -6
There was an old legendary “mad scientist” coach at my HS who allegedly went into a game with 14 players on a miserable day and won by punting the ball back as soon as it was caught. The returner would catch the ball, take what he could, and boot it back, so he kept their same 12 guys on the field all game while their D slowly froze to death on the sideline until the 4th quarter. Wait, what? |
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 4, 2019 15:03:51 GMT -6
There was an old legendary “mad scientist” coach at my HS who allegedly went into a game with 14 players on a miserable day and won by punting the ball back as soon as it was caught. The returner would catch the ball, take what he could, and boot it back, so he kept their same 12 guys on the field all game while their D slowly froze to death on the sideline until the 4th quarter. Wait, what? In the pouring rain and freezing cold the field turned to mud and he gambled that his starting 12 were good enough, with the help of the weather, to bring the game to a standstill for three quarters. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 6, 2019 9:55:25 GMT -6
Everything big nose said and find a way to get kids out on offense and special teams. You can hide kids on O/S that you can’t on D
I have to disagree here coach; 8-man is a very different game in this aspect. It's difficult to hide kids anywhere, offense, defense of special teams. You get one kid playing that shouldn't be there and you're running the risk of big problems.
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Post by CS on Sept 6, 2019 12:34:04 GMT -6
Everything big nose said and find a way to get kids out on offense and special teams. You can hide kids on O/S that you can’t on D
I have to disagree here coach; 8-man is a very different game in this aspect. It's difficult to hide kids anywhere, offense, defense of special teams. You get one kid playing that shouldn't be there and you're running the risk of big problems.
To be honest I have never even seen an 8 man game. We just recently got it in my state and it's not sanctioned by our athletic association. So you cant put a kid at say WR on the opposite side of where you run the ball? |
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Post by carookie on Sept 7, 2019 1:15:59 GMT -6
Here is one for you. 8 man team thar had to play at 3:30 pm today due to a nearby fire disrupting field times and schedules. It was 98 at kickoff with about 30% humidity. We have 11 players suited up (although 1 has only a week of football under his belt. They have over 25 and have just dropped down from 11 man.
We are down 14-6 mid way thru the 1st when our rb/safety goes down with heat illness and is vomiting, a few minutes later same happens to my other rb/safety.
Long story short we are down to 7 bodies by the end of the 1st half. Luckily we just run the clock and end it early. But sometimes there just arent any tricks in the bag
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Post by vince148 on Sept 7, 2019 11:29:27 GMT -6
We are in the same situation. 8-man at a small school. We have forfeited the first two games. The first game, we led the entire game and were up 30-28 when I called it. Last night was just a blowout, down 36-0 in the 3rd when I called it. We went into both games with just 10 players, but injuries have hit us hard already. Last week, we lost a kid for the season from a knee injury. Last night, a kid went out with concussion and may be lost for the season as well. We picked up a kid who will be eligible to play in next week's game, but he is a freshman with no experience. So I would be going in with 8 kids unless another kid who was injured comes back and makes it 9. Unfortunately, the major injuries are hitting my best athletes. While I am try to remain optimistic, it is possible that we may not even have enough kids for next week, let alone the season.
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Post by scarletandcream on Sept 14, 2019 19:32:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the comments guys! I lost two guys for the season last Friday and one was a senior two way starter. No good! We lost last night 31-0 and did absolutely nothing on offense. We shortened the game way down and defense played well. Had we been effective on offense it would have been a close game. We were gassed by the second half and I used all of my time outs to give them breathers. I did all that I could.
To put it in context though this team was beating us 52-12 with 10 mins left in the second quarter last year. We improved dramatically against them so I’ll take it. We will play three teams in a row that have the same number of guys that we do and we appear to be better than them on film so I think we can get all three. We will see.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 14, 2019 19:50:20 GMT -6
Here is one for you. 8 man team thar had to play at 3:30 pm today due to a nearby fire disrupting field times and schedules. It was 98 at kickoff with about 30% humidity. We have 11 players suited up (although 1 has only a week of football under his belt. They have over 25 and have just dropped down from 11 man. We are down 14-6 mid way thru the 1st when our rb/safety goes down with heat illness and is vomiting, a few minutes later same happens to my other rb/safety. Long story short we are down to 7 bodies by the end of the 1st half. Luckily we just run the clock and end it early. But sometimes there just arent any tricks in the bag 30% humidity...sounds like heaven  1pm kickoff weather for teams here was 92 degrees, 60% humidity. Ridiculous heat wave the past 2 weeks in the dirty south. Sounds like you had a brutal game. Great job battling through. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 14, 2019 20:07:39 GMT -6
Here is one for you. 8 man team thar had to play at 3:30 pm today due to a nearby fire disrupting field times and schedules. It was 98 at kickoff with about 30% humidity. We have 11 players suited up (although 1 has only a week of football under his belt. They have over 25 and have just dropped down from 11 man. We are down 14-6 mid way thru the 1st when our rb/safety goes down with heat illness and is vomiting, a few minutes later same happens to my other rb/safety. Long story short we are down to 7 bodies by the end of the 1st half. Luckily we just run the clock and end it early. But sometimes there just arent any tricks in the bag 30% humidity...sounds like heaven 1pm kickoff weather for teams here was 92 degrees, 60% humidity. Ridiculous heat wave the past 2 weeks in the dirty south. Sounds like you had a brutal game. Great job battling through. Yeah, I went to HS out near Palm Springs, and coached for several years in Arizona so I've been through games in 100+ temp. I think this is one of the unintended issues with the school year, and thus season, being moved up a month. |
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1pm kickoff weather for teams here was 92 degrees, 60% humidity. Ridiculous heat wave the past 2 weeks in the dirty south.