|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 9:38:41 GMT -6
I'm looking for feedback on any teams that play both levels on the same day. Our JV is at 4pm and the Varsity 6:30 or 7pm. I've never had a schedule like this before.
I don't like it. Not enough time to explain the politics, etc. but as you might imagine, I'm battling other influences, factors, etc.
I can't change it (right now), so I'm looking for ways, thoughts, ideas on the most efficient ways to navigate through this type of game day. Any ideas are appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by canesfan on Aug 1, 2019 9:54:45 GMT -6
Where are you? That sounds like a nightmare.
|
|
|
Post by coachplaa on Aug 1, 2019 9:56:46 GMT -6
Its how we do it in CA. I've been coaching for 20+ years and its always been that way here. Freshmen typically play Thursday nights and JV & Varsity play Friday nights.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Aug 1, 2019 10:09:44 GMT -6
That is how we do it in Maryland Public Schools as well. Been doing this since forever, and there is no problem with it. JV plays either Thursday afternoon, or Friday at 4.
The biggest issue I see, is that you lose the ability to move kids back and forth from JV to Varsity. This may be a problem in a very small school.
Back "in the day", the JV coaches had to bust their ass to get down the road to scout, but Hudl has solved that.
I know those who play JV on Monday can play those kids on Friday as well, with limited play time, usually a 6 quarter per week limit. We can't do that. Juniors are mandated to play on the Varsity, and once a kid moves up to the Varsity, he cannot go back down.
What is your concern?
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 10:11:41 GMT -6
Where are you? That sounds like a nightmare. Maryland. As intense of a game that football is, I just don't see how it helps a varsity team that only has 10 coaches (5/5) adequately prepare for a contest. It just seems like too much on one day.
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 10:15:15 GMT -6
That is how we do it in Maryland Public Schools as well. Been doing this since forever, and there is no problem with it. JV plays either Thursday afternoon, or Friday at 4. The biggest issue I see, is that you lose the ability to move kids back and forth from JV to Varsity. I know those who play JV on Monday can play those kids on Friday as well, with limited play time, usually a 6 quarter per week limit. We can't do that. Juniors are mandated to play on the Varsity, and once a kid moves up to the Varsity, he cannot go back down. What is your concern? Good question. My concern is, like many others, I utilize my JV staff for game-day duties from everything from supervision to team meal prep to uniform/equipment issue. Not to mention that I want the JV guys to be fresh (not worn out from their game) in order to help the varsity with adjustments, scouting, charting, etc. I just feel like it's a lot to ask for the JV guys to do all on one night...
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 10:27:05 GMT -6
Its how we do it in CA. I've been coaching for 20+ years and its always been that way here. Freshmen typically play Thursday nights and JV & Varsity play Friday nights. Any logistical hurdles that you run into?
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Aug 1, 2019 10:28:01 GMT -6
That is how we do it in Maryland Public Schools as well. Been doing this since forever, and there is no problem with it. JV plays either Thursday afternoon, or Friday at 4. The biggest issue I see, is that you lose the ability to move kids back and forth from JV to Varsity. I know those who play JV on Monday can play those kids on Friday as well, with limited play time, usually a 6 quarter per week limit. We can't do that. Juniors are mandated to play on the Varsity, and once a kid moves up to the Varsity, he cannot go back down. What is your concern? Good question. My concern is, like many others, I utilize my JV staff for game-day duties from everything from supervision to team meal prep to uniform/equipment issue. Not to mention that I want the JV guys to be fresh (not worn out from their game) in order to help the varsity with adjustments, scouting, charting, etc. I just feel like it's a lot to ask for the JV guys to do all on one night... Couple thoughts: 1-how much are your JV guys really doing during the varsity game? My contributions to the varsity effort are really background stuff for the most part. 2-Get your JV guys to work harder. I coach our JV game, set up all the HUDL equipment, and then I'm on the headsets for the varsity game.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Aug 1, 2019 10:30:09 GMT -6
Funny, I retired after 40+ years on the field, a couple of years ago to become a "Hudl" scout. I haven't coached JV since like 1979-1980. This year I find myself helping out as a volunteer with a JV program. My role with the Varsity is strictly "advisory." We usually have 3-4 coaches assigned to JV and 6-7 assigned to the Varsity. Our county allows for 10 positions, 5 paid and 5 volunteers. On paper, there are 3 paid varsity coaches and 2 paid JV staff.
The JV guys can't help out with supervising the team meal, but they should be able to do some game spotting and charting, provided that the JV kids can sit in the stands after their game ends. Not a problem with home games.
If they need to ride a separate bus home after away games, the coaches will have to accompany them, so you lose them for your game. Just gotta juggle your staff.
|
|
|
Post by hsrose on Aug 1, 2019 10:52:31 GMT -6
I coach in CA so I don't know anything else but Frosh on Thursday, JV & varsity Friday (or Saturday) night. This normally has a Frosh staff, JV staff, and varsity staff. Generally operating as 3 separate staffs. We don't have a frosh team here anymore, no numbers to support 3 levels. JV leaves early on the bus, JV HC is on there with them. The team van takes the equipment and leaves around the same time, one of the coaches drives the van. Coaches get to the game, they do the game. As many coaches as we have available are helping with JV. Not always optimal as they may not know all the nuances of the JV players and what they have been taught. Varsity bus leaves, HC (me) on the bus with them. Get to the game, sit in the stands, go get dressed, warm up, play the game. All coaches are helping with varsity game. After the game players are allowed to sign out with HC to ride home with parents. Both busses leave at the same time.
Biggest issue is that this allows the JV staff to do their own thing to a certain extent. They run this play but because they are kings of their own world they do it this way instead of the way the varsity does. Or the opposite happens. I was the JV HC here for a year and my goal was to 'out varsity the varsity' in the offense and defense. That worked for about 4 weeks until I realize that the varsity was off on a different offensive scheme than what they started with and I had not been told about it. It's not unusual for JV teams to be doing something different from the varsity.
Right now I have myself and 6 coaches. I have 9 stipends from the district, but 3 of those are for a frosh team so I have 6 stipends that I can actually use. Last season the board had to hard allocate the stipends because of a teachers union agreement. Before that I was splitting the stipend pool as I wanted to cover coaches. Now I have to put names into the boxes.
So we can't play a JV game one night and then bring up bodies for the varsity game. This has never been a consideration for us but I think that there is a 10-quarter limit here in CA, but I'm not sure about it. May be just me not remembering gooder. My take is that I won't bring a JV up to varsity unless the kid can play, unless he can start somewhere. We can have juniors play JV and one of my former HC's would put his 2nd team varsity juniors on JV, especially his QB. His thought was that they would be playing every game and getting game reps and if they had a problem they would come back up the next game. #3 would get them through the game tonight if the #1 got hurt, and then next week the game-ready #2 would be up on varsity. A lot of other teams did the same thing so JV got to be pretty competitive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 11:14:01 GMT -6
Where are you? That sounds like a nightmare. Maryland. As intense of a game that football is, I just don't see how it helps a varsity team that only has 10 coaches (5/5) adequately prepare for a contest. It just seems like too much on one day. With this structure, it makes more sense to not truly split the staffs or teams. I’m assuming the JV plays the same opponent as the varsity on Friday night, correct? Practice all the kids together during the week. Make all 10 coaches into varsity coaches. Then have like 2-3 position coaches work with the JV for their games (you can rotate this) and call those plays—this is a good way to groom young coaches. Varsity can watch the JV kids play or hang out in the locker room. Focus all your preparation on varsity have JV just run a simplified version of that. When JV’s over, let those coaches combine and the JV kids can be dismissed. The JV kids who don’t leave can just hang out on the sideline and not be a distraction. The key is to remember that JV is JV. It’s about development and fun, not wins and losses. You don’t need to prep for it heavily.
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 11:57:28 GMT -6
Maryland. As intense of a game that football is, I just don't see how it helps a varsity team that only has 10 coaches (5/5) adequately prepare for a contest. It just seems like too much on one day. With this structure, it makes more sense to not truly split the staffs or teams. I’m assuming the JV plays the same opponent as the varsity on Friday night, correct? Practice all the kids together during the week. Make all 10 coaches into varsity coaches. Then have like 2-3 position coaches work with the JV for their games (you can rotate this) and call those plays—this is a good way to groom young coaches. Varsity can watch the JV kids play or hang out in the locker room. Focus all your preparation on varsity have JV just run a simplified version of that. When JV’s over, let those coaches combine and the JV kids can be dismissed. The JV kids who don’t leave can just hang out on the sideline and not be a distraction. The key is to remember that JV is JV. It’s about development and fun, not wins and losses. You don’t need to prep for it heavily. This crossed my mind. This is quite possible. I will just have to adjust my practice plans, and some other logistical practice concepts, etc. But this may be what serves us best. Thanks for the insight.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Aug 1, 2019 12:21:16 GMT -6
We tried the "all together" practices. I didn't like how they worked out except for some indy drills.
The problem was the younger kids either get overlooked or are out matched physically. You forget how far behind 9th graders, who have never played before are compared to a 4th year varsity senior. They are still learning ABC, while the older kids are up to EFG. Group work, and team scrimmage time left the younger kids shortchanged.
It also does not allow the JV coaches to have the independence to run their own program. I do want the JV to run the same base offense and defense but beyond that scope, the JV coaches can make their own adaptations. You are dealing with some coaching ego issues.....
I just don't want to be in a situation where, many years ago, I was in a program where the Varsity ran the Flexbone and the JVHC refused to run this, and ran Power I.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 1, 2019 13:53:25 GMT -6
Im also in CA but i just moved down south. In Southern CA Frosh and JV are Thursdays. Varsity is Fridays. Kids can play two games per week as long is it isnt the same day. Where i was from in Northern California, we had Frosh/JV/Var all play on Saturday and kids could only play one game per week. I much prefer the Saturday games.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Aug 1, 2019 15:57:50 GMT -6
I'm looking for feedback on any teams that play both levels on the same day. Our JV is at 4pm and the Varsity 6:30 or 7pm. I've never had a schedule like this before. I don't like it. Not enough time to explain the politics, etc. but as you might imagine, I'm battling other influences, factors, etc. I can't change it (right now), so I'm looking for ways, thoughts, ideas on the most efficient ways to navigate through this type of game day. Any ideas are appreciated. I think it would benefit the response if you were to define what JV was as well as some other organizational structures for your program. For instance, at several of the schools I have worked with, JV was simply kids that didn't play on Friday Nights (unless a blowout) Mostly Soph and some Jrs that didn't get regular playing time on Friday nights. They played on Wednesdays. Practiced with varsity during the week (usually scout team members when needed) and had a separate team sessions on Sat morning while Varsity was running/stretching. Freshmen were their own separate team. I realize that set up could vary greatly from place to place.
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Aug 1, 2019 16:02:40 GMT -6
CA that's how it always was. Kid can only play in 1 of the games.
UT we have sub-varsity on Thursday night, then Varsity on Friday nights. Kids can play in both.
Each state has different rules.
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 1, 2019 16:41:10 GMT -6
CA that's how it always was. Kid can only play in 1 of the games. UT we have sub-varsity on Thursday night, then Varsity on Friday nights. Kids can play in both. Each state has different rules. Casey, I guess I feel a little better knowing that other places do this. I must have been sheltered all these years and didn't realize that this was actually a thing. I have seen Monday and Saturday schedules for lower levels, but I guess I never paid attention to those who went on the same day. Now I just have to structure some things a little differently. bignose has provided some very good insight on organization. I appreciate the feedback.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Aug 1, 2019 17:17:08 GMT -6
Here is more or less how we structured our coaching responsibilities with a 10 man staff for varsity and JV:
1. HC-supervisory, may be offensive play caller- on headset with spotter in the booth and OC / DC 2. QB Coach / OC / P.A.T. 3. Backs Coach / runs the offensive scout team on defensive practice days . / offensive pressbox spotter 4. Receivers Coach / Defensive backs / defensive pressbox spotter/ Punt and K.O. return 5. Line Coach: on offense and defense 6. DC: linebackers -runs scout defense on offensive days (gets extra defensive work in that way) kickoff and punt. For several years our DC preferred to be in the pressbox
7. JV HC: QBs and Backs / OC / . offensive scout team on defensive days / punt / P.A.T. / K.O. return 8. JV DC: LBs . runs defensive scout team / punt and K.O. return 9. JV Line: this is the most important position on the field. You want a very experienced coach for this 10. JV receivers and defensive backs. (this is usually our youngest, least experienced coach)
Equipment guy, a non coach, who is a swing man. He can supervise the varsity pregame meal, sets up the headsets, etc.
From 2010 thru 2015 this was me. Funny how something always needed fixing while we were running full offensive team practice. I would observe over the HC's shoulder and make recommendations and suggestions ( I was drawing up the offense in the off season, so it was my "baby.")
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Aug 1, 2019 21:50:03 GMT -6
We used to do it when I was in HS back in CA, although most schools in So Cal now don't do this. I have been at places recently that did this, but we had big numbers (like over 60 on Varsity and over 30 on JV). So I think the big question from my end is what are your numbers like?
|
|
|
Post by realdawg on Aug 2, 2019 3:30:46 GMT -6
We have done it a couple times when there is bad weather coming in on a Friday and we played them both Thursday night. Its hectic, chaotic, and not real fun. But my biggest logistical issue is, who supervises the JV during the varsity game if you are the away team? ?
|
|
|
Post by canesfan on Aug 2, 2019 7:39:15 GMT -6
I don’t think we could ever do that in KY outside of our bigger classes. We’re a small school, our JV kids play varsity as well. Some of our JV kids play a lot of varsity or start one side of the ball varsity and get reps on the other side during JV. That’s bad enough, as you may lose a rotational guy on Monday for Friday’s games.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 2, 2019 15:50:18 GMT -6
We have done it a couple times when there is bad weather coming in on a Friday and we played them both Thursday night. Its hectic, chaotic, and not real fun. But my biggest logistical issue is, who supervises the JV during the varsity game if you are the away team? ? Do you not have JV Coaches? We havent had this issue, because we always have two buses (only two teams also) Frosh/Soph play at 11, finish game, get on bus go home. Varsity plays at 2, finish game, take their own bus home.
|
|
|
Post by chi5hi on Aug 2, 2019 18:24:23 GMT -6
Here in SoCal...Frosh and JV play Thursday, one at home the other away. Varsity on Friday. eezy-peezy!
Doesn't conflict with JV guys playing in both games and I never understood why anyone would do it another way.
|
|
mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 202
|
Post by mc140 on Aug 2, 2019 18:48:32 GMT -6
Common in bigger classes in Illinois. Frosh play on Thursdays, Sophs/JV play before Varsity on Friday.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 2, 2019 19:24:36 GMT -6
Here in SoCal...Frosh and JV play Thursday, one at home the other away. Varsity on Friday. eezy-peezy! Doesn't conflict with JV guys playing in both games and I never understood why anyone would do it another way. I prefer having 5 days of practice with the game on saturdays. Plus i dont understand why kids are playing in two games especially back to back nights, it doesnt make sense to me from a health and safety standpoint.
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 2, 2019 20:29:24 GMT -6
I guess the other factor that upsets me is that my son is on the JV, so I won't really get to sit back and enjoy any of his games. I guess I can watch some of the game, but not all of one. He's a freshmen, playing organized football for the first time. It was something I was looking forward to watching. I also have a son in the 8th grade, and it will be the same situation next year. I'm just trying to process this so I can enjoy coaching and be there for my family. As always, I appreciate the feedback. carookie (35-40 Varsity/25-30 JV)
|
|
|
Post by realdawg on Aug 2, 2019 20:41:29 GMT -6
We have done it a couple times when there is bad weather coming in on a Friday and we played them both Thursday night. Its hectic, chaotic, and not real fun. But my biggest logistical issue is, who supervises the JV during the varsity game if you are the away team? ? Do you not have JV Coaches? We havent had this issue, because we always have two buses (only two teams also) Frosh/Soph play at 11, finish game, get on bus go home. Varsity plays at 2, finish game, take their own bus home. No, we coach both. If you are a defensive coach you coach defense JV and Varsity. If you coach offense you coach both. In practice we do varsity O, JV D and then switch. Been that way my whole career.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Aug 2, 2019 22:47:46 GMT -6
I guess the other factor that upsets me is that my son is on the JV, so I won't really get to sit back and enjoy any of his games. I guess I can watch some of the game, but not all of one. He's a freshmen, playing organized football for the first time. It was something I was looking forward to watching. I also have a son in the 8th grade, and it will be the same situation next year. I'm just trying to process this so I can enjoy coaching and be there for my family. As always, I appreciate the feedback. carookie (35-40 Varsity/25-30 JV) So in light of the family factor I understand your frustration. I think that your program size is small enough where playing JV games a day before or after the varsity would be beneficial (as you could have swing players help fill out the roster); but probably only a few. As far as watching the JV game and your son, I would just talk to the HC. I get that there are some staffs that really buy into their own BS and think that there is some magical last minute coaching you will give the boys in the locker room; but really it shouldnt be too bad for you to watch him play then meet your position group on the field for warmups.
|
|