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Post by CS on Jul 8, 2019 11:45:49 GMT -6
somecoach actually makes a good point with the thread premise, which is love it or hate it THIS IS who we're all coaching; the same generation. Not going to do anything productive complaining about it. does this help? streamable.com/3eeto Lol! That was awesome...and true
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 13:07:07 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy. I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 8, 2019 13:09:40 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer. Have coached w/ guys who when they win they pat themselves on the back and when they lose "they have no talent" or " our kids just suck". But.....if kids say that about us, well they must be entitled little pricks. Bottom line, kids come & go, but if you never look in the mirror and develop YOURSELF, then you are at the mercy of your talent. Yes....we all are to some extent, but my goal is to try and take every team I have to +1 or better than what they are probably capable of. 3-6? I'm pushing for 4+. 5-4 I'm pushing for 6+. Maybe I can and maybe I can't but one thing I know for SURE. $hitty attitude and excuse making has no shot. Getting after it gives you a chance. JMO. Agreed on all accounts. This is an interesting conversation to follow, but I think at the end of the day, it's on us to fix the problem. It's not fixable everywhere, but you should do your best in the situation you're actually in and when you can't bear it, get out.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Jul 8, 2019 14:32:48 GMT -6
Kids didn't change, we got older.
There is truth in that. We get older every year, they stay 15-18.
Easy, Wooderson.
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Post by blb on Jul 8, 2019 14:34:45 GMT -6
There is truth in that. We get older every year, they stay 15-18.
Easy, Wooderson.
No idea what you mean by that, please elucidate.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Jul 8, 2019 14:42:25 GMT -6
No idea what you mean by that, please elucidate.
In Dazed and Confused (A movie) Wooderson (Mathew McCaughney) who was older and hanging with High School aged kids famously said "Man, I love these HS girls, I keep getting older and they stay the same age" It was a joke. 3.5 weeks till go time!
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Post by blb on Jul 8, 2019 15:04:54 GMT -6
No idea what you mean by that, please elucidate.
In Dazed and Confused (A movie) Wooderson (Mathew McCaughney) who was older and hanging with High School aged kids famously said "Man, I love these HS girls, I keep getting older and they stay the same age" It was a joke. 3.5 weeks till go time!
Obviously never saw "Dazed and Confused."
And wasn't referring to HS girls.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 8, 2019 18:24:48 GMT -6
Since I was in HS (1969-72) and got my first HC job (1979), not only has the world changed (we had three TV channels, our city had two movie theaters with one screen each, phones were attached to an outlet on the wall with cords on them) and parents-adolescents with it, so has HS Football.
At least in my neck of the woods, there was no year-round weight training (unless done in PE classes), no 7-on-7s, no summer camps, no school-sponsored Soccer or Lacrosse, no travel or fall baseball, and AAU basketball was not as big as it is now. You sure it wasn't actually bigger? Just that it was for adults, not teens and children.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 8, 2019 18:32:06 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy. I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece I don't think there is a solution to it unless you become their parents and find a way to be in control of them 24/7. While more people are interested in taking on that role on this forum and in coaching, that holds no interest for me.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 8, 2019 18:35:58 GMT -6
Our HC is on the "kids haven't changed..." wagon and we debate it all the time. It is impossible to be blind to the evolution of even Socrates formula. Our sport is and always has been hard while progress is designed to make life easier. Those two things don't go together. All sports are equally hard to win at. Football's got the same overall winning percentage it always had, and the same as all other sports in match play: 50% (counting ties as 0.5).
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 8, 2019 18:43:32 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy . I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece I don't think there is a solution to it unless you become their parents and find a way to be in control of them 24/7. While more people are interested in taking on that role on this forum and in coaching, that holds no interest for me. Coach, this comment is similar to another one you made recently, but I think you are missing the point. It isn't about "changing" the kids (which is what I assume your "be their parent, control them 24/7". At least that isn't what I am interpreting @duece to be saying. I think it is looking for the best ways to work the situation. I think what @duece is saying is similar to someone playing in the highest class in their state with an OL that averages 175lbs. You can sit in the coaches office and complain, but at the end of the day, do you just say "oh well" or do you try and see if you can do something a bit different?
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 8, 2019 18:47:14 GMT -6
So, what would you consider a solution to kids behaving differently if not changing them fundamentally?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 8, 2019 18:54:15 GMT -6
Our HC is on the "kids haven't changed..." wagon and we debate it all the time. It is impossible to be blind to the evolution of even Socrates formula. Our sport is and always has been hard while progress is designed to make life easier. Those two things don't go together. All sports are equally hard to win at. Football's got the same overall winning percentage it always had, and the same as all other sports in match play: 50% (counting ties as 0.5). Bob - option1 didn't say "hard to win" he said Hard. As in physically and mentally demanding. Lets face it, most people would say that the actual act of "playing" basketball or baseball or even soccer (if the person enjoys soccer) is more fun than football.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 8, 2019 18:55:55 GMT -6
So, what would you consider a solution to kids behaving differently if not changing them fundamentally? Some have been mentioned.. such as how one speaks to them (If you are a "do it cuz I said so", be prepared for backlash) , how to motivate etc. I am not saying I have the answers, I am just saying that is what @duece was looking to discuss. Not changing the kids behavior but changing how one operates in the new dynamic. Similar to how bosses / HR departments have had to change somewhat as society changes.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 8, 2019 19:06:39 GMT -6
Keep in mind that we are really only 4 -6 generations removed from a time where there really wasn't much of a concept of recreation or leisure time. It seems that with each passing generation, the younger group finds more and more leisure time in the eyes of the older generations. The options for them to spend that leisure time are changing. All of that is true, but there was one relevant change in addition. I don't know when it occurred, but it might've been about that far back: adults getting interested in games their (and other) children played. Children of a young enough age always had plenty of leisure time. Originally it was because they weren't big enough to contribute anything useful to the family or community but to stay out of the way. Eventually it came around again, when production became sophisticated enough that children were too dumb to work at it. Regardless, there was always some age range. Adults too have had various amounts of leisure time depending on the state of society around them. Many of the things adults did as work became modified into either non-competitive or competitive sports. But at some point there had to be adults who had leisure time at the same time as their children. Most of the time before the revolution that gave us the phenomenon described here, if those times coincided it'd be children watching the adults play. Then somehow some adults decided to pay attention to the games their children played. Not all the games their children played, because children are always making up games unfamiliar to their elders, but games their elders knew and had played, and maybe continued to play. Theoretically as productivity continues to increase, so should leisure time for adults. Probably not for children, though, because productivity's not an issue for them. This predicts that the amount of adult involvement in their children's play would increase. It was probably productivity increases that led adults to first take interest in child's play.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 8, 2019 19:26:09 GMT -6
All sports are equally hard to win at. Football's got the same overall winning percentage it always had, and the same as all other sports in match play: 50% (counting ties as 0.5). Bob - option1 didn't say "hard to win" he said Hard. As in physically and mentally demanding. Lets face it, most people would say that the actual act of "playing" basketball or baseball or even soccer (if the person enjoys soccer) is more fun than football. True, which is why more people play those sports than football. Football's always been for the few to play and many to watch. But I don't get the contrast between technology's making things easier and football's being even physically hard. It's always been much more physical work to play football than to do any of various other leisure activities. I don't see how that equation changes as time goes on. Is the contrast between playing football and driving a car that much greater when the transmission is automatic? And I don't even see much of a contrast at all in mental demands that makes football special compared to other things, let alone that that comparison is changing as tech advances.
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Post by tigerpride on Jul 9, 2019 7:04:25 GMT -6
Here is one thing I have noticed. Younger staff members seem to connect so much better to these kids than I do. As head coach, I really have to be the bad guy and have to make the tough decisions and have the tough conversations. Some kids struggle with that.
Just hired a young guy who played at UC a few years back. He's never coached before and the kids think he is the greatest of all time. So the least experienced member of my staff is considered the "GOAT". I have 2 younger guys and the kids gravitate to them. It's been two great ways to get my kids excited.
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Post by somecoach on Jul 9, 2019 16:13:10 GMT -6
somecoach actually makes a good point with the thread premise, which is love it or hate it THIS IS who we're all coaching; the same generation. Not going to do anything productive complaining about it. does this help? streamable.com/3eeto Link to the full video?
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Post by somecoach on Jul 9, 2019 16:40:35 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy . I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece Update on my original post/ logical solutions This week is our annual youth camp which is an open invite to all 6/7/8th graders We open up the week doing a quasi "combine" in which we have all the kids compete in a 40 yard dash, Shuttle drill, broad jump, etc. My station this year was the broad jump. With this thread in mind I was more alert to monitor the kids overall enthusiasm... I did my best to do my usual "hype up" of the drill but they were obviously just going through the motions of their practice jumps, and even for their initial jumps... We were going through their 2nd attempt and the emotion was still lack luster, when all of the sudden the wind blew a piece of garbage in the way of the station (some small piece of rubber?) and as I picked it up to toss it an older coach who I was working the station goes "he coach how about we place this where their previous jump was so they can see if they can beat their score" HOLY@#$% did the enthusiasm go through the roof! They were legitimately excited to do the drill! They were celebrating if they made it, dissapointed if they missed it, but overall they were all amped up to be doing the long jump! There were kids literally begging to jump a 4th and 5th time just to show the other kids he could beat his high score! Afterwards we had a good laugh over how these screen addicted kids were legitimately exited to jump over a literal piece of garbage. Overall I believe the way to combat this is to get Gen Z kids interested in football through instant gratification and visual ques... even if it as simple as giving them a piece of garbage to jump over.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 9, 2019 18:14:14 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy . I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece Update on my original post/ logical solutions This week is our annual youth camp which is an open invite to all 6/7/8th graders We open up the week doing a quasi "combine" in which we have all the kids compete in a 40 yard dash, Shuttle drill, broad jump, etc. My station this year was the broad jump. With this thread in mind I was more alert to monitor the kids overall enthusiasm... I did my best to do my usual "hype up" of the drill but they were obviously just going through the motions of their practice jumps, and even for their initial jumps... We were going through their 2nd attempt and the emotion was still lack luster, when all of the sudden the wind blew a piece of garbage in the way of the station (some small piece of rubber?) and as I picked it up to toss it an older coach who I was working the station goes "he coach how about we place this where their previous jump was so they can see if they can beat their score" HOLY@#$% did the enthusiasm go through the roof! They were legitimately excited to do the drill! They were celebrating if they made it, dissapointed if they missed it, but overall they were all amped up to be doing the long jump! There were kids literally begging to jump a 4th and 5th time just to show the other kids he could beat his high score! Afterwards we had a good laugh over how these screen addicted kids were legitimately exited to jump over a literal piece of garbage. Overall I believe the way to combat this is to get Gen Z kids interested in football through instant gratification and visual ques... even if it as simple as giving them a piece of garbage to jump over. Kids love competing and they love results.
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Post by option1 on Jul 10, 2019 5:41:48 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy . I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece Update on my original post/ logical solutions This week is our annual youth camp which is an open invite to all 6/7/8th graders We open up the week doing a quasi "combine" in which we have all the kids compete in a 40 yard dash, Shuttle drill, broad jump, etc. My station this year was the broad jump. With this thread in mind I was more alert to monitor the kids overall enthusiasm... I did my best to do my usual "hype up" of the drill but they were obviously just going through the motions of their practice jumps, and even for their initial jumps... We were going through their 2nd attempt and the emotion was still lack luster, when all of the sudden the wind blew a piece of garbage in the way of the station (some small piece of rubber?) and as I picked it up to toss it an older coach who I was working the station goes "he coach how about we place this where their previous jump was so they can see if they can beat their score" HOLY@#$% did the enthusiasm go through the roof! They were legitimately excited to do the drill! They were celebrating if they made it, dissapointed if they missed it, but overall they were all amped up to be doing the long jump! There were kids literally begging to jump a 4th and 5th time just to show the other kids he could beat his high score! Afterwards we had a good laugh over how these screen addicted kids were legitimately exited to jump over a literal piece of garbage. Overall I believe the way to combat this is to get Gen Z kids interested in football through instant gratification and visual ques... even if it as simple as giving them a piece of garbage to jump over. This. Is. Good!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 6:35:39 GMT -6
Yeah I agree with brophy . I hear a lot of complaining and what folks think the reason is. How about some logical solutions instead. Duece Update on my original post/ logical solutions This week is our annual youth camp which is an open invite to all 6/7/8th graders We open up the week doing a quasi "combine" in which we have all the kids compete in a 40 yard dash, Shuttle drill, broad jump, etc. My station this year was the broad jump. With this thread in mind I was more alert to monitor the kids overall enthusiasm... I did my best to do my usual "hype up" of the drill but they were obviously just going through the motions of their practice jumps, and even for their initial jumps... We were going through their 2nd attempt and the emotion was still lack luster, when all of the sudden the wind blew a piece of garbage in the way of the station (some small piece of rubber?) and as I picked it up to toss it an older coach who I was working the station goes "he coach how about we place this where their previous jump was so they can see if they can beat their score" HOLY@#$% did the enthusiasm go through the roof! They were legitimately excited to do the drill! They were celebrating if they made it, dissapointed if they missed it, but overall they were all amped up to be doing the long jump! There were kids literally begging to jump a 4th and 5th time just to show the other kids he could beat his high score! Afterwards we had a good laugh over how these screen addicted kids were legitimately exited to jump over a literal piece of garbage. Overall I believe the way to combat this is to get Gen Z kids interested in football through instant gratification and visual ques... even if it as simple as giving them a piece of garbage to jump over. I agree this is very good. Now apply to a practice setting. What are some things you would do there? Duece
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Post by somecoach on Jul 11, 2019 19:25:32 GMT -6
I agree this is very good. Now apply to a practice setting. What are some things you would do there? Duece This is something I will definitely be working on going forward. One thing I think will get a good reaction with Gen Z is creating a competitive atmosphere as apposed to mind numbing drill work. Back in my day (which wasn't that long ago) we were a two platoon varsity team and the offense and defense would have all out WARS at camp. The rivalry was so bad during camp, atleast one giant good ole fashion bench clearing brawl field fight that was most likely egged on by the coaches. By the end of camp we all shook hands and became a tight knit team but man was that feeling in practice intense. Some of this would spill over during the season in which we would start padded practice with a "set the tone period" in which we would spot the ball at like the 10 and the offense would have 4 downs to score. It was best 2/3 and the DC would literally punish the defense with sprints/bear crawls/ etc. for losing... oh and we ran the DTDW and would not throw the ball throughout this period, so it was a total blood bath. As for carrying this over to modern day/the necessary mind numbing drill work... I'm thinking of creating a system of punishment/reward within the practice itself i.e.: drop ball= extra sprint/conditioning O-line doesn't give up a sack= cut down conditioning Position group does drills "perfectly"= give a rewarding drill the players enjoy doing like one on one Have the winner of a drill get recognized instantly/publicly Another HUGE issue I see in general with Gen Z players is they definitely shut out long winded coach speak (as most of us did anyways back in the day). These kids are mostly visual learners and struggle envisioning things verbally or through literature. I see alot of coaches taking too long to get to the point/talking over the kids heads in general. My HC tells us to teach things as if you are speaking to foreigner who has never watched football. Make sure the kids understand each "football word" you use i.e.: 9tech, overhang, deep 3rd, SCF, Wing, etc. We also try to do corrections in 5 words or less/emphasize buzzwords to avoid the long windedness problem obviously adjust to your player's football iq but imo unless you have a direct feeder program you will never have a player walk through your door knowing your exact terminoligy, or even the level of terminology we expect "everyone to know". We start every JV season by teaching them the basics of what a first down is, why the hashes are there, etc. because where we are even "seasoned" youth football "stars" can't describe the basics in detail because imo they were never taught.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 12, 2019 7:33:40 GMT -6
This is something I will definitely be working on going forward. One thing I think will get a good reaction with Gen Z is creating a competitive atmosphere as apposed to mind numbing drill work. Back in my day (which wasn't that long ago) we were a two platoon varsity team and the offense and defense would have all out WARS at camp. The rivalry was so bad during camp, atleast one giant good ole fashion bench clearing brawl field fight that was most likely egged on by the coaches. By the end of camp we all shook hands and became a tight knit team but man was that feeling in practice intense. Some of this would spill over during the season in which we would start padded practice with a "set the tone period" in which we would spot the ball at like the 10 and the offense would have 4 downs to score. It was best 2/3 and the DC would literally punish the defense with sprints/bear crawls/ etc. for losing... oh and we ran the DTDW and would not throw the ball throughout this period, so it was a total blood bath. As for carrying this over to modern day/the necessary mind numbing drill work... I'm thinking of creating a system of punishment/reward within the practice itself i.e.: drop ball= extra sprint/conditioning O-line doesn't give up a sack= cut down conditioning Position group does drills "perfectly"= give a rewarding drill the players enjoy doing like one on one Have the winner of a drill get recognized instantly/publicly Another HUGE issue I see in general with Gen Z players is they definitely shut out long winded coach speak (as most of us did anyways back in the day). These kids are mostly visual learners and struggle envisioning things verbally or through literature. I see alot of coaches taking too long to get to the point/talking over the kids heads in general. My HC tells us to teach things as if you are speaking to foreigner who has never watched football. Make sure the kids understand each "football word" you use i.e.: 9tech, overhang, deep 3rd, SCF, Wing, etc. We also try to do corrections in 5 words or less/emphasize buzzwords to avoid the long windedness problem obviously adjust to your player's football iq but imo unless you have a direct feeder program you will never have a player walk through your door knowing your exact terminoligy, or even the level of terminology we expect "everyone to know". We start every JV season by teaching them the basics of what a first down is, why the hashes are there, etc. because where we are even "seasoned" youth football "stars" can't describe the basics in detail because imo they were never taught. So, one thing I have done that our Gen Z kids have responded well to is to institute a competition period. We do our team stretches and go right into competition. Coaches and I draft kids onto O and D with the goal to balance things out as much as we can. We then give the O different scenarios in which they have to compete against whatever D we assemble. During this time we'll let them bring out a speaker, blast their tunes, whatever. My original purpose for doing this was we always started games pretty flat. We wanted to get them used to competing right out of stretches. The kids buy into it and look forward to it. In school they would find me to ask what scenario I had planned for the day, and would be pretty bummed if we didn't build in competition.
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Post by blb on Jul 12, 2019 8:52:36 GMT -6
Question - What comes after Generation Z?
Is this the end?
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Post by silkyice on Jul 12, 2019 10:24:24 GMT -6
Question - What comes after Generation Z? Is this the end? Ha!
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 13, 2019 22:22:41 GMT -6
Question - What comes after Generation Z? Is this the end? Given the direction of climate change... Not yet but soon!
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Post by s73 on Jul 14, 2019 7:57:25 GMT -6
I also think another solution is to look at what you do, what we have always done, and question: Is it necessary? Does it make sense?
I scrapped 2 a days a decade ago. Why? B/c the 2nd session always sucked. The kids worked hard, then they sat in the AC for an hour, came back out after lunch & proceeded to dog it and throw up. I decided "just b/c it had always been done" didn't make it smart or good practice.
In my state when I payed ball, we had no summer camp so 2 a days made sense. Now we do, so what do we need 2 a days for when you have a summer to prep? I would argue if you still need them then your summer plan is probably not very organized. JMO.
Another thing I have scrapped for 10 years now is conditioning. It is MY GOAL, to make my practices organized enough that what we do DURING the practice conditions our kids. We run a tackle / block destruction circuit that has them wheezing when they're done. We run 7 on 7 and live pass rush drill. We make them carry out all ball fakes for 10 yards. They are gassed by the end w/o the DREADED "alright, everybody on the line".
I have scrapped taking guys to the ground. It only seems to get kids hurt and IME, has very little carryover to actually improving tackling. We pursue hard and wrap up, we take our opponents to the ground. In fact, I will say this, the FASTER we are the better we tackle regardless of how often we drill it. So....why get kids that much more beat up? JMO.
I also believe it is advantageous to look at how many contacts you NEED rather than how many you get. If you don't need to do extra days, don't "invent stuff" that requires extra days. I think sometimes we hear about opponents do "X" number of contacts & we feel if they are doing that then I need to keep up with them. Personally I feel this can be foolish and unnecessary.
These are my solutions and I feel have helped us to keep numbers when others have struggled. It ain't perfect but at least I can say I'm doing something rather than just whining about it. I think giving kids a portion of their summer is a good thing. I think that "morale booster" supersedes and is more beneficial than extra days of work if......you are organized and have a plan.
JMO.
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Post by somecoach on Jul 14, 2019 19:33:46 GMT -6
Question - What comes after Generation Z? Is this the end? Alpha, Beta, etc. Gen Alpha is going to be an interesting bunch...
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 14, 2019 19:44:49 GMT -6
Question - What comes after Generation Z? Is this the end? Alpha, Beta, etc. Gen Alpha is going to be an interesting bunch... Not to many Alphas seem to be developing in Gen Alpha
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