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Post by toddniklaus on Jan 22, 2008 14:30:53 GMT -6
At my school the youth program has been under community education for the past 15 years. All of the coaches are volunteers and most of them are parents. My question is as the head coach of the high school team how much of my program should I expect them to be running? I currently have the 8th grade and 7th grade team running my system but 6th down to 3rd grade do what they want too.
What do you guys think?
Thanks
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 22, 2008 15:33:30 GMT -6
It doesn't matter as long as they are learning the fundamentals.
However, if the coaches are receptive to running your system than go for it. Just make sure you are available if they have questions.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 22, 2008 16:22:08 GMT -6
I would get them to use as much TERMINOLOGY to match yours as possible, back and hole numbering...what to name plays and maybe a few basic formations...otherwise, great fundamentals and teaching sportsmanship, team work and love for the game is what really matters. You would do well to capture those boys imaginations and hearts as early as possible.
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Post by lochness on Jan 22, 2008 16:57:12 GMT -6
Terminology is critical. I also feel that fundamentals are critical. Try to get them to buy into how you teach blocking and tackling...use the same "trigger words" and the same progressions. This will get you way ahead of the game.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 23, 2008 7:06:12 GMT -6
For 7th and 8th - back numbering, holes and your top 3 plays from your top 2 formations. BUT, in the end, I would want to make sure the youth guys are teaching the fundamentals properly...even more-so than using your offense or defense.
6th grade and lower...with all due respect coach, who knows you'll even be there in 6-8 years when these kids are seniors...or...who knows how much of your offense/defense will change in 6-8 years.
You need to find one full time youth coach on your staff though to work with these parents. A HC of the 8th grade team. Get him involved.
But, the one way to steer coaches away from a youth program, is taking away their freedom to run a few things that they know along with your base packages.
BTW, I'm a youth HC for an 8th grade team. No kids in the program. Everything I described above we do and it has worked really well. I pride myself on A. the kids coming back year after year and B. the HS coaches commenting on how well the kids know how to block & tackle
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 23, 2008 11:56:09 GMT -6
I would honestly say that I would want one thing from my feeder teams...kids who work hard, play hard and hit hard. Contact...the game is about contact...if they fear contact when they get to high school they arent going to be of much use to you. If a youth and jr high coach can do nothing else, get the kids over the fear of contact, get them to love hitting. I can then teach them my system and schemes and use them.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 23, 2008 13:05:58 GMT -6
IMO feeder programs should run what the varsity runs. Everything? Obviously not. But the base should be the same, same as the terminology. It is for the benefit of the program and the kids. There is no point in running anything different.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jan 23, 2008 14:19:30 GMT -6
I've gone back and forth on this one...this is where we stand now. 7th and 8th grade programs run exactly what the high school runs (watered down of course). They practice on our fields 30-45 minutes after we get off so some of the coaches/players will stick around and help out for the rest of their practice as well...tons of fun!!!
2-6th grade...we will provide a very watered down version of our O and D and the coaches can use it if they so choose. Problem is we have a lot of interested dads but they might not know that much or we have guys that know too much and try to do everything. We are having our first youth football clinic (in doors in our fieldhouse...cold in MN during the winter) to demonstrate proper practice planning, blocking, tackling, throwing, receiving, and running with the football. FUNDAMENTALS and ORGANIZATION are imperative at any level.
We lean on the coaches that in their help will assist with varsity wins. They should take pride in the success of the high school program because they are the feeder program. Just like a high school student's success is related to learning the fundamental learning skills way back in elementary school.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 23, 2008 14:40:18 GMT -6
IMO feeder programs should run what the varsity runs. Everything? Obviously not. But the base should be the same, same as the terminology. It is for the benefit of the program and the kids. There is no point in running anything different. Sounds good...but here is what happens. Many plays run at the varsity level, defenses run at the varsity level, just don't work at the youth level. Some plays run at the youth level...defenses too, work for youth football, but not so much for varisty. Additionally, no volunteer coach is going to want to be handed a playbook and told "run this and nothing else". The result is, you'll just have a bunch of dad's running your youth program. So now you have a bunch of kids, using plays that don't work, and defenses that fail, being taught by dads. Your rentention rate is going to be poor for both players and coach's, the quality of coaching is going to be poor because you have a revolving door of dads...all so the kids who won't be seniors for 4-8 years know the cover 3 and zone blocking. Kids need real coach's committed to coaching...teaching how to run, block, and tackle.
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Post by brophy on Jan 23, 2008 15:13:27 GMT -6
like anything, you take what you can get.
If you can't get it, its not the end of the world, but it would help.
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trojan
Junior Member
[F4:wingtcoach.com] [F4:wingtcoachdon]
Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Jan 23, 2008 16:46:43 GMT -6
If I were a dad or a volunteer at the youth level, I'd demand to run whatever the hell I wanted to run! No way I'd want my kid to be prepared for what they run in the high school. If I couldn't do that, well, then I'd just take my kid somewhere else.
By the way, that was sarcasm.
You can run whatever you think will work, and you need to tailor it to the age level of the kids. I do think, however, that the varsity coach may have been chosen based on what he knows, and you may want to use some of his wisdom.
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Post by morris on Jan 23, 2008 16:55:45 GMT -6
IMO feeder programs should run what the varsity runs. Everything? Obviously not. But the base should be the same, same as the terminology. It is for the benefit of the program and the kids. There is no point in running anything different. So what if the HS can not even run the scheme the correct way? These threads seem to always go off the assumption that the HS staff knows what they are doing. We have all coached against teams that we felt the staff on the other sideline could not coach themselves out of a paper bag. Now imagine being their feeder system and being told to run this. How about a HS that runs a ton of grab bag stuff? What about a HS that makes things overly complex? What about a HS that runs a complex scheme? How many people have went around and asked other coaches what their feeder program runs? Some can give you answers so can not. I know the times I have asked the question I get all sorts of different responses. I know some very successful HS coaches that have never coached at a lower level so they do not know how to go about developing the system fo rthat age group. I completely agree if the HS has a well put together structure and plan then feeder program would buy in. If it is just here you go run this or just setting down to talk scheme it is not going to work as well if at all.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 23, 2008 17:53:29 GMT -6
shoot, some hs teams have offense and defense of the week...how the heck is a youth coach suppossed to buy in to that?! Not all HC know football, its that simple.
I know one HC that actually drew up 32 plays...16 of them were different ways to run "dive" and gave it to his 7th grade coach...he said "this is what we run"...the 7th grade coach said 'uh coach, we have 9 man fronts here, dives arent working to well, can we run trap?" and the HC said ' we dont run trap at teh varsity level, you cant pull guards at this level the lbers read it too fast" - that was THE END OF THE DISCUSSION.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 23, 2008 17:59:48 GMT -6
IMO feeder programs should run what the varsity runs. Everything? Obviously not. But the base should be the same, same as the terminology. It is for the benefit of the program and the kids. There is no point in running anything different. Sounds good...but here is what happens. Many plays run at the varsity level, defenses run at the varsity level, just don't work at the youth level. Some plays run at the youth level...defenses too, work for youth football, but not so much for varisty. Additionally, no volunteer coach is going to want to be handed a playbook and told "run this and nothing else". The result is, you'll just have a bunch of dad's running your youth program. So now you have a bunch of kids, using plays that don't work, and defenses that fail, being taught by dads. Your rentention rate is going to be poor for both players and coach's, the quality of coaching is going to be poor because you have a revolving door of dads...all so the kids who won't be seniors for 4-8 years know the cover 3 and zone blocking. Kids need real coach's committed to coaching...teaching how to run, block, and tackle. Wingt74, Sounds like you have been on both sides of that fence, well done. Thats exactly what happens in real life, Orgs grow and fade into obscurity based on exactly what youve said all accross the country. Poorly coached and non competitive programs coached by dad coaches that stick with the org a few years and age out, rarely do well. That kills retention, competitveness and continuity. High schools dont have to play everyone, High SChools will never see the worst players that quit playing before the super weak kids ever get to HS. Tiny squad sizes ( required in most leagues), slim pickings, limited practice times, smaller bodies and immature minds and the requirement to play everyone are things the HS scheme does not have to accommodate. They are different games in many ways. I coach what I know and what I know will work for the groupings of kids I get. What we run will also accommodate playing them all. We will play everyone, they will have fun , be great blockers and tacklers, we will compete and we will retain almost all of them. And the High School teams will fight over them LOL. Ive turned down every HS coach that has sniffed in my direction and have no interest in an ego driven move of "proving" myself at the HS level. Have no idea how I would do and dont care, I like impacting large group of kids for eternity in what Im doing now with 100% control. BUT if I was a HS coach I would tell the youth guys play em all, have fun, teach great blocking and tackling, retain everyone, do what you need to do scheme wise to ethically compete and play the best competition possible. When I get em I want them to being in love with the game. appreciate the game, confident and know what it takes to compete. Of course I would clinic the heck out of em and support them etc.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 23, 2008 18:00:21 GMT -6
Oh, this is kind of fun actually...heres another true story...
walked into a coaching meeting on the SECOND DAY of two a days ...varsity staff in a heated arguement at the white board. 4 guys all talking about what they wanted to talk about...none of them seemed to know his subject area either from what I could tell.
one guy was barking about how they had to play double 3 techs in their 43 because their linebacker was "such a stud" and the other guy didnt know what "3 tech" meant while the other guy was saying that veer would kill that front and he proceeded to draw up a base blocked dive play...then the other guy said "we should run a bear front but run it like fritz" and the other guy who was drawing plays to attack the double 3 started arguing about what to name their blocking schemes....this was the second day of two a days...
....fast forward a few years...those guys are long gone as a staff...THE HC FIRED FROM TWO JOBS.
....another example...first day of varsity camp, hc coaches rbs, ...he installs about 25 backfield alignments and formations....the oline has not met all off season, the oline coach hasnt spoken to the varsity hc since november....he is teaching base blocking vs the 43....the hc gives him fifteen minutes with the olien and blows the whistle, everyone gets water and the full contact scrimmage is on...no system, no logic, no order, no leadership, no clue....NO FEEDER SYSTEM. THE HC FIRED, OUT OF COACHING.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 23, 2008 20:27:40 GMT -6
So Coach A has been a successful Varsity HC for 15 years, runs things the right way, does good by his staff/players/team/etc. He's relatively young at age 42, he's definitely going to be around for another 20 years plus.
Are you, the youth coach, coach of his feeder program, going to run what he runs using his terminology (appropriate to your age level)? Yes? No? Maybe? Why?
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Post by wildcat on Jan 23, 2008 20:41:34 GMT -6
If I was a head coach, this is what I would want from my youth coaches:
1) Play LOTS of kids. At the youth level, platooning is ESSENTIAL. There is really NO REASON that kids should be standing on the sideline. Find a way to start 22 kids and make sure that the non-starters get plenty of time and play on special teams. I think the MOST IMPORTANT job of the youth coach is to make sure that the kids come back next year.
2) Be a great role model. Don't cuss. Don't smoke or chew in front of the kids. Be a "larger than life" figure in the kids' lives. Be someone that the kids like being around. Again, keep the kids coming back the next year.
3) Teach kids how to block and tackle. Everything begins and ends with this.
4) Be competitive. I really don't care if my 7th graders are the Region 6 Pee Wee Champs, but I do want the kids to be in the position to win most of their games. I've seen way too many junior tackle coaches say "We just want the kids to have fun." These are usually the guys who go 0-8 every year, lose games by 30 points, and drive kids away from the game with incompetance. Kids want to play on a winner.
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lyons
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by lyons on Jan 23, 2008 21:24:54 GMT -6
I agree with Wildcat! Especially about the role model and being positive with the kids! We have a feeder program where the coaches are screaming and cussing at the kids. We almost lost 2 of our better football players/kids due to this fact. One started as a freshman on the varsity. You want the kids to learn fundamentals, be competitive and also have fun while they do it(if they don't enjoy it, you could lose some kids) eventhough winning solves a lot. They need you to explain in detail of what you want and you will have to do this over and over especially in the younger ages. If the coaches are willing to run what the HS runs and it could be successful then do it.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 23, 2008 21:55:08 GMT -6
So Coach A has been a successful Varsity HC for 15 years, runs things the right way, does good by his staff/players/team/etc. He's relatively young at age 42, he's definitely going to be around for another 20 years plus. Are you, the youth coach, coach of his feeder program, going to run what he runs using his terminology (appropriate to your age level)? Yes? No? Maybe? Why? Not if his scheme doesnt make sense for the age and athleticism of the youth team. if ths schems cant accommodate the playing of less athletic kdis while still givng them the chance to compete in every game they play. My guess great coaches with 20 years experience can teach kids they get 5-7 days a week, two a days, spring football, camps etc and nearly year round vs my 2-3 days a week for 3 months. Rarely does the HS coach "own" the feeder program it's run by a guy that puts 100s of hours of his own non paid time and his own $ into it. The program is for the kids not serving at the whim and for the wins of the High School HC that the kids may or may not eventually play for. It's a kids game for kids we equip make sure they have fun NOW and play now and equip them with basic building blocks for the future if the kid decides he wants to continue.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 24, 2008 4:15:36 GMT -6
HERE IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT...
JUST THINK...what about the kids that just want to win RIGHT NOW...they work very hard and WANT TO BE PEE WEE CHAMPS!!! Those that say they 'dont care" about wins at the pee wee level have most likely never been around those players and parents enough to KNOW that those kids and parents want to be pee wee champs. there are a bunch of youth football players (the majority in fact) that have no intentions of ever playing high school football - sadly because its not always fun. Youth football has of course 3 days a week of practice, some times only 2..and then a short game...lots of time to be a kid and have fun in between football...it doesnt become drudgery. If you ask a team of 22 kids if they want to win a championship trophy you can bet that every one of them says yes.
WHY DOES WINNING INDICATE THAT A COACH ISNT TEACHING FUNDAMENTALS OR PLAYING EVERYONE? * i ask that because so often it seems to come up on the various forums that a pee wee coach who is winning games "does it for ego", "thinks hes Vince Lombardi", or isnt somehow "preparing the kids for the next level"...I argue that pee wee coaches that are successful year in and year out are a) prepared b) good teachers of the game and its fundamentals c) can recognize and develop talent and d) know their material and its good stuff. e) are likely well respected by the kids and the parents that pay for the kids to play.
I realize that there are some boobs out there who mistreat the kids, sadly they are on every level of football and in any job, administrative or otherwise...
I do tire of the stereotypes around coaching, particularly the painted image of the STUPID YOUTH FOOTBALL COACH. Some of the most passionate caring people I have met invlolve themselves in the lives of little people thru coaching. Some of them know their craft very well and spend their own time and money in developing it. Look around, there are thousands of youth coaches on these forums studying the game, learning it at a level much deeper than they will ever have to teach it. Are they dumb youth coaches? Or are they every bit as passionate and committed to the game and the kids as any PAID varsity coach?
Another thing that I find tiresome is the the idea that the youth game and ms and jr high games are as simple as "teach great fundamentals and play everyone" and that will keep kids interested. That is simply bs. You have to win games, nobody wants to be associated with a loser, if your team doesnt compete and win more often then not then you may very well find yourself with dwindling numbers.
My case in point? our ms (the one I coached at the year before) went just 2-5 this year. They had some real difficulty scoring points. I heard some of those players say after the season that they were "done" with football because "we suck" and plan to focus on baseball or basketball...why? A year ago they loved football. Do I think they will play football again? That depends on the damage control the frosh coach can do in recruiting those kids back out.
I also doubt strongly if the ms will have 50-55 kids come out instead the numbers will most likely drop into the mid 20s.
I realize that most varsity coaches do not give a rats behind if their youth win or not because they figure "just keep em interested, we will make players out of them when they get here"...and I agree...but I also think winning is part of keeping them interested and I of course speak from experience.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 24, 2008 6:32:34 GMT -6
One thing I guess I over looked was the HS staff's relationship with the youth coaches. If the HS staff is down their nose and distant from the youth staff then I can see where the youth coaches may go their own way. We did not have that problem, our youth coaches were always included, we held youth camps, we and some of our kids would go help out with practice, we would attend games and awards night. Youth kids were selected to participate on friday night, either as ball boys, water boys, honorary captains, etc. It was a very productive environment. Then some jack@$$ came rolling in, somehow got the presidency of the youth league, went his own way, and now they are cutting kids from the youth program, he is only putting around 30 kids into the 7th grade, some quit before 8th grade and the freshman team #'s are in the teens and each class gets smaller as they go through the HS. The state of the program is a long way from 6 years ago when we were routinely having freshman classes of 35-40 kids. In a HS with only 325+ boys, 35 kids in each class playing football was huge. But please don't tell me that varsity stuff won't work at the youth level, and that some youth stuff won't work at the varsity level. That is simply untrue. Some of it may require more teaching and practice than others but I can't think of a single offense or defense that cannot be taught at that level. The varsity defense used for 17-18 year olds kids is set up to defend against the plays 17-18 year old kids can run and execute. What a 17-18 year old can exectue with 5-7 days a week practice and 10 years of expereince under their belts ( and by then most if not all the "Lupeses" have dropped out) is much different than say what 8-10 year olds can execute well. That is just one example of many that says you dont run the same thing at the varsity level and succceed. If you are running a 4-3 thats not defending against what 95% of youth teams do and requires descent athletes at every position, placing MMP type kids at any position in that defense and he will fail/be exploited. Let me line up against those HS defenses set up to defend multiple and spread teams and we run wild. Just one example BTW, there are many others. If on varsity if every week you saw teams that say ran the wishbone, would you stick with the same defense you run now? How about if the opp ran 95% of their downs in a double tight set and completed just 20% of their passes and they completed just as many to the defense as they did their own players, would you still stay in the same defense? OK, you would probably run a defense that defended best against what you had to defend every week, that would be prudent. Thats what good youth coaches do, we put in schemes like defenses that not only defend against the plays other teams CAN execute well at the age group we are coaching, but also allow the play of everyone, while still being competitive. The High School coach has the luxury of not having to play everyone, he does not have that constraint ( A constraint I highly endorse). Schemes are built based on the resources, nature of the opposition and constraints one has, which are much different at the youth level than the HS level, much different. Requiring more practice in most cases is NOT an option, many leagues restrict the practice time to 2-3 days per week and even by hours. We are gettign kids that have never played before quite often, last year I had 2 teams, one had about 20 kids on it, of which 17 had never played before. Are my practice priorities and time going to spent a bit different from the HS coach who has a squad that very rarely has kids that have never put a helmet on before? Heck many of those kids the HS has, have 10 years under their belt LOL. Im not practiceing 5 nights a week to catch up, I think 3-2 nights a week is fine, no need to burn them out. it's youth football still and supposed to be fun. You can teach anything, but will it have any level of success? Ive seen 100s of youth teams play locally and in Regional and National tourneys and Ive only seen one passing team (throws over 50% of the time) consistently win. With limited squad sizes, no cuts and squads filled with kids that the HS will never see ( the worst ones quit before they get to HS) unless you have a "Select" team chosen from over 200 kids and practice 5 days a week, doubtful most teams would succeed throwing a majority of the downs. No 7-7 leagues and camps for 99% of the youth level kids etc. It just doesnt happen in real life with the kids, constraints and realities of the youth level. Lets not leave it all on the shoulders of the passing teams, lets talk about true triple option, can you teach those reads to a first year 8 year old player and have him execute it well? I ran option for 7 years at the youth level and came from a HS Option Program, and it's very difficult to say the least. Only year we ran a true triple I had the son of a former NU great that played QB in the NFL and CFL. My guess daddy worked him year round, not the typical kid I get most years
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 24, 2008 7:09:05 GMT -6
as a youth coach you have to work very hard to avoid having to punt...the punting game at the youth level can be quite entertaining...avoid it if you can ha ha.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 24, 2008 7:46:15 GMT -6
as a youth coach you have to work very hard to avoid having to punt...the punting game at the youth level can be quite entertaining...avoid it if you can ha ha. Naaa, I've coach'ed 6th grade through 8th grade. I use a 7 yard drop and angle the kick to a sideline. Net average in 8th grade was 25 yards!!
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Post by brophy on Jan 24, 2008 8:10:25 GMT -6
There are two threads about 'youth programs' that are virtually covering the same ground. I really want to refrain from a response, but the point of the board is to share ideas to better the profession.
Dave and Steve have a lot of experience with youth programs and have some personal insight.
I feel the need to articulate an admonishment for coachcalande. With respect to the fact that I know I haven't said many kind things about him, I would just like to offer this piece of encouragement.....
You can choose to hear this or ignore it, but in 2008, here's to getting better.
#1 - it has been my experience in various programs that youth coaches (both youth & MS) are highly respected guys. Most of them really love where they are at and are at that level because they WANT to be at that level (no aspirations to be validated at the Varsity). Most (Varsity or otherwise) coaches don't dismiss 'youth coaches'. I mean that in all sincerity. As an example, just look at jhanawa (on this board), the guy is a youth coach (a great one), so is saintrad......no one is dismissing any of their posts, and they are highly respected. Notice none of these guys assert that they have the miracle scheme or their Varsity program is misguided because they are running a different scheme or do other things differently. Why do parents and sports fans opinions get dismissed? Because they rarely factor in all the variables (mainly out of ignorance, partly out of pride) in a situation - this may be part of the reason you have felt slighted in the past
#2 - With every post, coachcalande, it becomes more apparent that you have been dramatically shaped by your experiences throughout your career. Most of these 'experiences' come off as some traumatic event where you have been abused by staff or parents, leaving you with an extremely large chip on your shoulder. Does that smug, abrassive 'ego' come with you to your interviews? Maybe THAT is the reason you aren't getting the gigs you want (only speculation).
No one is going to argue that you aren't passionate - you are No one is going to argue that you don't "know your stuff" - you do No one is saying you haven't done a great job coaching - you have
You obviously want to move up - you want to be a Varsity Head Coach. Go for it. However, rather than blaming everyone you've encountered, talking so much crap about the programs and coaches you've worked for in the past, going on tangents about how no one is as good of a coach than you. A little humility goes a long way in this business. No one is entirely evil or absolutely pure, there are things to learn from each situation. Men are influenced by a variety of reasons (maybe there is a reason why everyone is saying 'XYZ scheme' isn't as practical at PDQ level).
Good luck.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 24, 2008 9:06:55 GMT -6
This subject seems to be spread across two threads. As a youth coach, my opinion is that it is a great thing for a HS program to get involved with youth programs. But, it is a bad thing for a HS program to dictate to a youth program.
It's really simple. If you want a son that looks like you, provide the seed, walk away and he'll look like you. If you want a child that looks like you and has your morals, outlook on life, background, sense of family, etc... you have to be there to provide for, guide and nurture that child.
In terms of coaching, a youth program isn't a whole lot different. Want us to look just like you? Give us the miniature size jerseys and helmets you wear and walk away. We'll look just like your team's mini-me's. I see it all the time. I live in Austin, Tx. Guess how many teams around here are named the Longhorns, look like the Longhorns but, damned sure don't play like the Longhorns. It's because coach Mack Brown and the Longhorns don't have a thing to do with them. They're just look-alikes and wanna-be's. There's no structure. You want a youth program to mirror your HS program you have to be there to nurture and support it. And, very importantly, you have to KNOW HOW TO WORK WITH A YOUTH PROGRAM.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 24, 2008 9:48:16 GMT -6
Dave - I have coached both at the youth level and at the varsity level. I took our varsity program to the youth level. The argument of the youth coaches then was "that is too complicated for our level." The truth was they didn't understand how to teach...let alone how to teach our particular offense or defense. Our varsity offense was the double slot run and shoot triple option offense. Our varsity defense was the 44, cover 3. On offense the 4 base plays we wanted to run were: Triple, Trap, Toss and Scissors. Triple was a true triple...AND it was checked at the LOS. Matter of fact, installed with the 3rd graders, and by the time they were 6th graders almost the entire offense was checked. Did they struggle with it as 3rd graders? Yes. It was complicated and it required them to pay attention to the colors and numbers in our cadence, it required them to look and recognize the defensive front and to UNDERSTAND the game. All of which require teaching. They got better and better as they went. All it takes is a progression (a lesson plan) and teaching one position (the QB) why he's checking to what he's checking. Do you allow the 3rd graders to check everything at the LOS? No. You teach them how to run "Midline Right" or "Triple Right". In the huddle you call the direction. Once they are good at blocking both of them, then you progress. "All right boys listen...I am just going to call 'Triple Right in the huddle', when we get to the LOS the QB is going to look at the defense, if he says 'CHECK CHECK BO BO' then 'Triple Right' will be 'midline right', if he doesn't say anything then it's just regular triple. BO=midline, nothing equals regular option" Then you practice that for a while, of course they are going to screw it up, but that requires you to be patient and teach. AND they will pick that up quicker than you think. Once they have that, you go to the next step: "OK...now I am just going to call "Triple" in the huddle. The QB is going to check it at the LOS, just like before, but now he is also going to check direction. We will use Black for right and White for left (school colors), and it will still be BO for midline." So if I call "Triple", we get to the LOS and the QB says "CHECK CHECK BO BO"...we are not running midline. The QB will then start the Cadence "Down, BLACK 22, BLACK 22..." Black is which direction? Right. So now it's midline right, so the left slot needs to go in motion... Then you have them do that, again they are going to screw it up sometimes, requires patience and teaching. BUT eventually they will get it. Even the kids who aren't the starters will get it, all you have to do is put them in and let them do it. IT CAN BE DONE, I've done it, I've done it with more than one QB, with more than one group of kids. I liked coaching the youth kids, they don't come in with bad habits or poor work-ethics and all they know on the football field is what we are teaching them at that moment. And we had a passing game, it wasn't elaborate, it was basically 3 step stuff and boot pass off of the toss play...all within the structure of our varsity offense. Defensively...you defend the offense, but I fail to see why a properly taught 44,52,53 are not capable of covering it. Can't run the 43 successfully at the youth level?? Stop it. Put the SS in the box and run cover 3...Oh wait..that's a 44. does it take time? Absolutely. Does it require you to practice 5 days a week? No. We practiced 3 days a week for 2 hours each practice. Can it all be done over night? No. You have to layout a procedure and a systematic way to get it done. But the most important thing that has to be done is you have to teach the coaches how to teach it, but first you have to start out with coaches who are willing to learn. Calande runs the 46 on defense...where did he get that? Buddy Ryan? Rex Ryan I don't think Buddy or Rex set it up to defend 8-10 year old offenses. It can all be taught and applied to the level that any of us are coaching. You are one of the very few HS coaches I know that has coached a youth football team through an entire season. I know how to coach the triple and in 7 years of doing it with 6 different teams we were only able to run a true triple the 2 years I had the Tagge kids as my QB. As to defense sure a 4-3 can be a 4-4 but is it he best choice for the plays Im defending? Does it allow me to play MMP kids and not put them in situations where they have little or no chance of succeeding or do I relgeate those poor kids to only special teams or only as a wideout we will never throw to etc. Probably not.
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Post by wardogsaa on Jan 24, 2008 9:55:20 GMT -6
We provide the OC and DC of the youth programs playbooks and terminology to use for their team. Basically they are scaled down versions what we run at the Varsity level.
We have been with the program for years and most of use do not have kids playing at this level anymore. We vote our head coaches in every year and they are informed before applying that they will run the system we provide. They are free to improvise based on the talent or lack that they have but they need to get with the OC or DC before doing so.
Prior to doing this everyone did their own thing. The problem was that good players had to be taught again because terminology and formations were not uniform. This hurt us at the higher levels. Now a kid comes in to the new season knowing what play calls mean. We have been a much more successful program since adopting this method.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 24, 2008 11:33:08 GMT -6
Getting dowin to the X's and O's.
I am a HC of an 8th grade team. 6th, 7th, and 8th kids. I coach up all the Dads on my staff and on the 6th and 7th
Varisty runs I form. Backs are numbered 1(QB 2(HB) 3(FB). TE is Y and WR is Z. At times the 3 comes out and a third receiver comes in who becomes an X. Holes are odd left, even right.
I run all of that.
I also run a T Formation to allow for more misdirection. They don't run T. But my T backs are 2,3,Z. And any plays we run are to the correct holes.
Var then runs a ton of motion, shifting, spread...pre-snap stuff. I don't run any of it.
We all are very happy.
If Varisty wouldn't let me run a T formation, I would be gone, and leave it to a Dad.
My kids want to compete and do well, not just be on a 6 year plan to prepare for their senior season. Geez, what if they get hurt when they're a senior?
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 24, 2008 12:13:18 GMT -6
Wardogsaa, You posted that your program has become much more successful after adapting to the methods that it currently uses. Has your youth program become more successful, also? I'm not taking a shot at you or, anyone else. I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. In fact, I don't even know what terms that you would qualify as success. Is your HS staff in charge of an entire youth organization or/and the entire league? If your staff controls the entire league, do certain groups of youth coaches tend to do better than other groups within your league even though they all run basically the same stuff? i.e...Team A coaches most likely will win the championship every year. Team B coaches tend to have .500 seasons. Team C tends to have losing seasons. Is there a draft? Are teams divided by talent? Do they have to bear the burden of recruiting players?
BTW, if I were a HS HC, I'd want anybody within sight of a football to pick it up and run my program's system. I wouldn't care how old they were or what sex they were. I'd do anything I ethically could to make it so.
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 24, 2008 17:47:04 GMT -6
IMHO, if you cannot coach or teach a kid your system as a Frosh have him prepared and ready to compete for your varsity team squad at least by his JR year but s/b by his Soph year it speaks more about your staff than what the youth teams do. Not to mention not all of your players played youth ball.
I played and coached in areas were there weren't any feeder teams. Kids all went to various Jr. HS and HS so it would be impossible. Schools still have success. IMHO, all feeder programs do is make the job of varsity coaches easier.
Lastly, YOU may not care if these youth teams win or lose as HS coaches but you better beleive that the KIDS, PARENTS, AND YES YOUTH COACHES CARE! And they should. Most of those kids will never play again and this will be their last memory as a football player. As a youth coach i taught my players the funamentals of football. But I COACHED to WIN! I we did it without gimmick offenses or defenses!
I don't have a problem with feeder programs as long as everyone is on the same page. And if you are going to require the youth and MS coaches to run your system. BE THERE FOR THEM when they have questions!
my .02
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