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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 31, 2019 8:04:21 GMT -6
Serious question --and in no means trying to be snide or condescending--- from a non core teacher (elementary PE) here and : since it has been well established that it is nearly impossible to find an occasion where a person doesn't have a cell phone, and this cellphone can be used to solve the type of questions being asked what value is it to ask that type of question?
Because the kids still need to understand the concept and context of the math they're doing and how it applies. Those apps are invaluable to those kids who use them to check their answers and work through problems. And, right now, I can only name a handful of students in my classes who don't plan on going on to SOME kind of higher education. Even those kids going to two-year vocational schools are going to end up taking some kind of mathematics when they get there. And, they won't be able to use a phone app there.
Yes, I understand the concept that one has to learn the fundamental concept , but (and this is a broad based curriculum comment, not one directed at individual classes) short of technological meltdown or some type of post apocalyptic environment, they will always have the ability to use the apps. Do the apps have a disadvantage, such as taking longer than traditional methods? For example simple one digit and perhaps two digit arithmetic operations. You can show students how much faster (and easier) than pulling out the cell phone and using the calculator or asking Siri. The same isn't true for dividing polynomials or something similar. Just my opinion, but I think at this stage of the game, using the apps for real life application purposes would be the lower levels and then advanced students would perform the higher level theoretical calculations.
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Post by s73 on Mar 31, 2019 8:59:43 GMT -6
Because the kids still need to understand the concept and context of the math they're doing and how it applies. Those apps are invaluable to those kids who use them to check their answers and work through problems. And, right now, I can only name a handful of students in my classes who don't plan on going on to SOME kind of higher education. Even those kids going to two-year vocational schools are going to end up taking some kind of mathematics when they get there. And, they won't be able to use a phone app there.
Yes, I understand the concept that one has to learn the fundamental concept , but (and this is a broad based curriculum comment, not one directed at individual classes) short of technological meltdown or some type of post apocalyptic environment, they will always have the ability to use the apps. Do the apps have a disadvantage, such as taking longer than traditional methods? For example simple one digit and perhaps two digit arithmetic operations. You can show students how much faster (and easier) than pulling out the cell phone and using the calculator or asking Siri. The same isn't true for dividing polynomials or something similar. Just my opinion, but I think at this stage of the game, using the apps for real life application purposes would be the lower levels and then advanced students would perform the higher level theoretical calculations. I think in a different way you are basically asking the age old question "when am I ever going to use this?" W/ tech the way it is I think it's valid question. My concern is, w/ these apps now, if kids don't try to still work this stuff out in there heads, will they lose the abilities to problem solve altogether? I am a PE guy, so math was never really my thing. But as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate the problem solving application of math/ Particularly as a FB coach where I feel the whole job is basically problem solving. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 31, 2019 13:32:25 GMT -6
Because the kids still need to understand the concept and context of the math they're doing and how it applies. Those apps are invaluable to those kids who use them to check their answers and work through problems. And, right now, I can only name a handful of students in my classes who don't plan on going on to SOME kind of higher education. Even those kids going to two-year vocational schools are going to end up taking some kind of mathematics when they get there. And, they won't be able to use a phone app there.
Yes, I understand the concept that one has to learn the fundamental concept , but (and this is a broad based curriculum comment, not one directed at individual classes) short of technological meltdown or some type of post apocalyptic environment, they will always have the ability to use the apps. Do the apps have a disadvantage, such as taking longer than traditional methods? For example simple one digit and perhaps two digit arithmetic operations. You can show students how much faster (and easier) than pulling out the cell phone and using the calculator or asking Siri. The same isn't true for dividing polynomials or something similar. Just my opinion, but I think at this stage of the game, using the apps for real life application purposes would be the lower levels and then advanced students would perform the higher level theoretical calculations.
Honestly, I'm probably the wrong math teacher to discuss this with as my mantra has always been "They took an abacus to the moon in the '60's so put the damn calculator away. " Lol.
My problem with technology in the mathematics classroom is that teachers create gaps in the kids' skill bases by allowing them to use technology instead of putting a pencil to paper and THINKING. I have Algebra 2 students that tell me "6 to the 2nd power" is "12" or "8" because they've gotten so used to just plugging that value into a calculator and going. So, they can't tell me what the square of 6 is off the top of their heads, they're juniors in high school who don't understand that taking a number to a power means repeated multiplication. What they do know is that hitting "6" and the "x squared" button on the calculator gives them the correct answer.
The apps are a fantastic tool for checking answers and for performing higher end mathematics when the kids already understand the concept. If they have a massive physic problem that involves a ton of implicit differentiation and they already understand how to do implicit differentiation, then the app would be invaluable. But, again, that's with the understanding that they understand the concept and can perform the operation without an app. I do it all of the time when working through higher end calculus problems before presenting it to the kids. I don't have the time to sit down for a half hour and plug through ONE friggin' calc problem so I use the app to get a feel for it.
In my experience as a math teacher, I have found that technology is great for making connections to real life problems or for representing problems in a visual manner. But, past that, I find it to be a hindrance on the kids' ability to learn and perform mathematics. It's tough to get the concept of rationalizing a denominator across to a group of kids when half of them don't what a square root is, much less what a perfect square root is. And, I am seeing this more and more every year at all levels of math. My Algebra class is going to be doing factoring soon and I am dreading it because half of the class doesn't understand the concept of a "squaring" a value or a variable, much less how to work backwards and factor. And, again, their lack of understanding is directly related to their reliance on technology. I beat my head against a wall trying to get kids to understand the simple concept of area and volume as they'd been taught just to plug some numbers into the calculator and get an answer.
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Post by Yash on Mar 31, 2019 20:28:46 GMT -6
So, I'm wondering if other schools or programs are having the same issues we are with social media. Over the last three years, every single fist fight we've have has been spurred on by social media interaction. One of the fights happened between two basketball players when I was AD so I got to see the social media posts that fueled the fire. Needless to say, I was shocked by what the kids were saying to one another and I was no angel when it came to running my mouth at their age. They keyboard warriors were out in force before that fight finally broke out and the administration and I dragged all of the kids involved and their parents in to discuss is as we was trying to sort everything out. In the end, the two kids that actually duked it out were suspended for a few games but we actually kicked a kid off of the team who didn't throw a single punch. The chit he was spitting out over social media was way out of line and some of it was happening during school hours so the administration gave him a few days ISS and I booted him from the team. We had a multitude of other kids that were punished via detention, ISS, and consequences on the basketball team. But, what really bugged me about the whole situation was the fact that all but one of those kids showed back up to school with their cell phones. I ended up confiscating two phones a few days after all the consequences were laid out as they didn't turn them before my class started.. I had pushed for them to lose all cell-phone privileges in school but the administration wouldn't touch it as it would have "violated policy". In my three years here, I have pushed to change our policy to completely ban cell-phone use during the day. The kids can have them before school, at lunch and after school but that's it. No cell phone allowed in classes, PERIOD. But, I get push back from staff members over this as well.. I wish I had kids hard enough to actually get in fist fight. Can your staff go the entire day without their cell phones? Cell phones are not a teen issue, they are a society thing. I don't like to say issue because everyone acts like the cell phone is the issue when in fact its the person using it. Sometimes I think we place expectations and rules on kids about electronic devices that we as adults can't or won't follow.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 1, 2019 7:39:38 GMT -6
So, I'm wondering if other schools or programs are having the same issues we are with social media. Over the last three years, every single fist fight we've have has been spurred on by social media interaction. One of the fights happened between two basketball players when I was AD so I got to see the social media posts that fueled the fire. Needless to say, I was shocked by what the kids were saying to one another and I was no angel when it came to running my mouth at their age. They keyboard warriors were out in force before that fight finally broke out and the administration and I dragged all of the kids involved and their parents in to discuss is as we was trying to sort everything out. In the end, the two kids that actually duked it out were suspended for a few games but we actually kicked a kid off of the team who didn't throw a single punch. The chit he was spitting out over social media was way out of line and some of it was happening during school hours so the administration gave him a few days ISS and I booted him from the team. We had a multitude of other kids that were punished via detention, ISS, and consequences on the basketball team. But, what really bugged me about the whole situation was the fact that all but one of those kids showed back up to school with their cell phones. I ended up confiscating two phones a few days after all the consequences were laid out as they didn't turn them before my class started.. I had pushed for them to lose all cell-phone privileges in school but the administration wouldn't touch it as it would have "violated policy". In my three years here, I have pushed to change our policy to completely ban cell-phone use during the day. The kids can have them before school, at lunch and after school but that's it. No cell phone allowed in classes, PERIOD. But, I get push back from staff members over this as well.. I wish I had kids hard enough to actually get in fist fight. Can your staff go the entire day without their cell phones? Cell phones are not a teen issue, they are a society thing. I don't like to say issue because everyone acts like the cell phone is the issue when in fact its the person using it. Sometimes I think we place expectations and rules on kids about electronic devices that we as adults can't or won't follow. No and that's why I get flak from the staff when I ask for a stricter cell phone policy. If the kids have to keep their phones in their lockers during school hours (with the exception of lunch) then the staff has to keep theirs put away as well. They know this and they don't like it. You're right; it is a societal issue and I'll openly admit that I was thoroughly addicted to my cell phone for a long time. I never had it out between or in classes (I can't say the same for some of my peers..) but I'd whip it out during my prep and screw around. It didn't take me long to realize that I was scrambling at times because too much of my free time was spent on that friggin' phone. And, social media p-sses me off.
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