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Post by Coach.A on May 27, 2019 8:45:18 GMT -6
I haven't read the entire thread yet and maybe what I'm about to write has been posted... I can't help but think about this inversely from the way the OP has presented it, particularly because our team, community, etc continues to battle it. Our "culture" is affected by our scheme and therefore prevents us from reaching our maximum potential. I believe kids are more savvy than they used to be. There's more information being passed around which allows kids, etc to form ideas and opinions of their own. In short, it's hard to explain to a group of kids, parents, etc that absolutely hate running/watching old school wing-t when they know there are modern variations that are "cooler" and more successful/relevant. We're talking about players that can cite the Auburn's of the football world and question "why we don't?" Our players are true 2 way guys and I'm just the DC but I can tell you it is way more challenging managing the psychological mind F@#$ these kids face during games because we struggle on offense AND they hate playing in it at the same time. All this to say I definitely believe that there are times when your culture better be in order or your job will be a lot harder and even risk possibly losing your team altogether. Interesting, we found that a recent switch to the Wing-T helped IMPROVE our offensive production, culture and the excitement around the program. There were definitely several other factors at play in our Program's growth, but I think the Wing-T has facilitated this growth rather than hinder it.
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Post by raider92 on May 27, 2019 8:57:37 GMT -6
My 2 cents, the rah rah buzzword bs that comes from coaching Twitter is an embarrassment to our profession. It's all self promotion in disguise. With that said, culture is extremely important. In my experience, guys who are buzz word hashtag coaches are also facemelter guys. The local hashtag coach around here is a 5 wide empty guy with a noodle armed qb and they suck, but hey they dominate the other teams in the area on Twitter. Right down the road from him is a 35 year veteran wing t coach who probably doesnt know what Twitter is but his team lifts like crazy all year round. The first coach has buzzword/twitter culture and the second has a real, effective, team culture.
When it comes down to matchups between 2 extremely talented and well run programs the Xs and Os are extremely important but even in those games one side or the other is usually going to have a bit more talent than the other on the lines or have a game breaking back that can hit a home run. There are maybe 1-2 games a year where the Xs and Os are absolutely critical. They're always important, but rarely do they outright decide a game.
The game itself is tough and takes a ton of hard work and perseverance just to even play it. In any competently run program it is a challenge just to be a football player. That, plus a coach who is a good role model, is the way kids learn life lessons. I think the character development stuff is a net positive, and in particular programs where kids are not getting any of that at home it is a good thing, but I think some guys get too wrapped up in it. Get them in the weight room, push them hard in practice, build relationships with them, and be a good role model for them and you've done 99% of the work towards helping them learn life lessons from football.
JMO
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Post by option1 on May 27, 2019 13:46:49 GMT -6
I haven't read the entire thread yet and maybe what I'm about to write has been posted... I can't help but think about this inversely from the way the OP has presented it, particularly because our team, community, etc continues to battle it. Our "culture" is affected by our scheme and therefore prevents us from reaching our maximum potential. I believe kids are more savvy than they used to be. There's more information being passed around which allows kids, etc to form ideas and opinions of their own. In short, it's hard to explain to a group of kids, parents, etc that absolutely hate running/watching old school wing-t when they know there are modern variations that are "cooler" and more successful/relevant. We're talking about players that can cite the Auburn's of the football world and question "why we don't?" Our players are true 2 way guys and I'm just the DC but I can tell you it is way more challenging managing the psychological mind F@#$ these kids face during games because we struggle on offense AND they hate playing in it at the same time. All this to say I definitely believe that there are times when your culture better be in order or your job will be a lot harder and even risk possibly losing your team altogether. Interesting, we found that a recent switch to the Wing-T helped IMPROVE our offensive production, culture and the excitement around the program. There were definitely several other factors at play in our Program's growth, but I think the Wing-T has facilitated this growth rather than hinder it. Yeah, my post wasn't about a specific scheme as much as it was to that if the players aren't happy with said scheme, then you better have something else.
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Post by groundchuck on May 27, 2019 19:29:16 GMT -6
Interestingly, Brian Kight talked about this in one of his talks...He said both are important but people don't focus on culture enough My Motto (which I stole from the US Army leadership manual) is Be, Know, Do IMO, the BE would be the culture part, the Know would be the scheme part, and the Do would be the execution part which would also include conditioning. You can't be great w/o all 3... Well said.
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Post by groundchuck on May 27, 2019 19:33:20 GMT -6
One way to look at it is Culture is your guys working hard in the wt room and on the practice field, then playing hard. If you don't do that you do not win. So yeah that is important. Is it more important than scheme? I guess it goes back to jgordon's post Be-Know-Do.
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Post by 42falcon on May 27, 2019 19:59:02 GMT -6
Interesting, we found that a recent switch to the Wing-T helped IMPROVE our offensive production, culture and the excitement around the program. There were definitely several other factors at play in our Program's growth, but I think the Wing-T has facilitated this growth rather than hinder it. Yeah, my post wasn't about a specific scheme as much as it was to that if the players aren't happy with said scheme, then you better have something else. See I really disagree on that one. Players often think they are better than they actually are, players are often selfish or interested in what they will get out of this VS what is best for the team. The culture piece here is why good teams become great teams even though they may not have superior talent. I can say for a fact that my players do not like our scheme. They would rather us spread the field and chuck it around like they see on TV. However when we go out and beat a team ranked higher than us there is no complaining. They understand the scheme and who "we" are. So players may not like the scheme but then that just means we need to sell it differently / facilitate buy in.
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Post by freezeoption on May 28, 2019 6:53:57 GMT -6
It's buy in. Sound likes option1 doesn't have buy in. If everyone doesn't have buy in, kids can tell. Auburn's offense don't mean squat unless you got the players for it. They have to have buy in. 1993, playing a much bigger team, we were just farm boys, they had gone to this high flying offense, we pounded them with good old fashion option formation iv, power and counter trey. The night before was the for shadowing, when our jv whipped them just as bad. If your not going to buy in, then you will continue to lose.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 28, 2019 7:22:19 GMT -6
Yeah, my post wasn't about a specific scheme as much as it was to that if the players aren't happy with said scheme, then you better have something else. See I really disagree on that one. Players often think they are better than they actually are, players are often selfish or interested in what they will get out of this VS what is best for the team. The culture piece here is why good teams become great teams even though they may not have superior talent. I can say for a fact that my players do not like our scheme. They would rather us spread the field and chuck it around like they see on TV. However when we go out and beat a team ranked higher than us there is no complaining. They understand the scheme and who "we" are. So players may not like the scheme but then that just means we need to sell it differently / facilitate buy in. just curious..what scheme do you use?
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Post by Coach.A on May 28, 2019 7:36:58 GMT -6
My 2 cents, the rah rah buzzword bs that comes from coaching Twitter is an embarrassment to our profession. It's all self promotion in disguise. With that said, culture is extremely important. In my experience, guys who are buzz word hashtag coaches are also facemelter guys. The local hashtag coach around here is a 5 wide empty guy with a noodle armed qb and they suck, but hey they dominate the other teams in the area on Twitter. Right down the road from him is a 35 year veteran wing t coach who probably doesnt know what Twitter is but his team lifts like crazy all year round. The first coach has buzzword/twitter culture and the second has a real, effective, team culture. JMO I agree that much of the social media promotion is over-the-top and the self-promoting coaches usually makes me cringe. But social media marketing can be done tastefully and it can help grow and brand your program. I'll be the first to admit that some of the stuff on our Team's social media account is over-the-top ridiculous but it is almost always done to promote our student athletes, volunteers and program. Our players love it and it has really helped sell our football program to the community. Most regions have seen a drop in football participation numbers lately. If you aren't promoting your program, athletes can be pulled to other programs and/or other sports & extra-curriculars. I think it also helps combat against people trying to eliminate football. It allows us to show all the great things our football program does for our community and students. We've seen clear and consistent growth in participation numbers since we started marketing our program on social media 3 years ago. I'm not a fan of our societies obsession with social media, but it is a reality. Adapt or die.
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Post by 54695469 on May 28, 2019 8:14:53 GMT -6
Generally, the better the players you have, the better your team culture.
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Post by 42falcon on May 28, 2019 20:49:05 GMT -6
See I really disagree on that one. Players often think they are better than they actually are, players are often selfish or interested in what they will get out of this VS what is best for the team. The culture piece here is why good teams become great teams even though they may not have superior talent. I can say for a fact that my players do not like our scheme. They would rather us spread the field and chuck it around like they see on TV. However when we go out and beat a team ranked higher than us there is no complaining. They understand the scheme and who "we" are. So players may not like the scheme but then that just means we need to sell it differently / facilitate buy in. just curious..what scheme do you use? We run the double wing and the shotgun DW most of what we do we got from Tim Murphy's stuff which has been helpful. Starting to morph a little into more some Wing T concepts as we evolve. It really gave us an identity / something we could hang our hat on. We get 40-50 kids out for each team (SR and JR) so about 100 kids playing ball. Of the 100 about 80-90% have never played before. The 10-20% who have played range in ability from not great to the best in the Province. We play in a division with the best teams and 3 of them are the opposite of us maybe 10-20% of their roster has never played before. We are happy when 12-15 kids who have experience come to our school one of our opponents actually cuts kids who have played before because they just have too many kids coming out they are very tough to play. It is those 10-20% kids that sometimes get bored or wish we were more like the other schools in offence style. But they get and buy into the weight room culture, the idea of team. Had a kid last year REC/RB after we lost a great game early in the year ask to play D as we had the discussion it came out he felt useless on O. I asked him what his stats were on average in his (spring football season) we compared them to his stats in our previous game. He had close to double the touches with us. They just came in a different way. Once he saw that he was all in. This is what I meant by selling the scheme and showing kids why we do what we do. Doesn't mean I am right or that others are wrong just a different way to do it I guess.
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Post by coachcb on May 29, 2019 8:23:05 GMT -6
One way to look at it is Culture is your guys working hard in the wt room and on the practice field, then playing hard. If you don't do that you do not win. So yeah that is important. Is it more important than scheme? I guess it goes back to jgordon's post Be-Know-Do. IMO, this is what "culture" and "the process" all boil down to; busting hump, year round. Kids that are willing to pay their dues are better for it physically, emotionally and cognitively. When you have that "culture", you know it as coaching day to day is a breeze and it's fun;the kids fly around and they do what is asked of them. Whether you're winning or not, coaching is fun because the kids are fun. Conversely, you certainly know it when you DON'T have that "culture" because, to be blunt, COACHING SUCKS. And, I'm not just talking about he competitive outcome; I'm talking about the kids being difficult. At our second track meet of the year, I restarted the boys' team warm-up twice because they were being lazy a$$es. I finally dragged them all aside and pointed out a team in our conference that was busting hump through theri warm-up without a coach even standing there; the seniors were leading it. Here's what I told our kids: "Look at how that squad is warming up! Look at how they go through everything with effort! And, LOOK AT HOW'S RUNNING THAT WARM-UP. Compare your own attitudes and behavior to that and you know why they kick the crap out of you in every sport you play them in. Now you've got one of two choices; get over on that goal line and give some effort or go scratch yourselves from your events and sit in the stands all day." One kid tried to argue so I scratched him from all of his events, called his folks and told them to come pick him up as he was done with the team.
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Post by CS on Jun 1, 2019 6:30:35 GMT -6
It's buy in. Sound likes option1 doesn't have buy in. If everyone doesn't have buy in, kids can tell. Auburn's offense don't mean squat unless you got the players for it. They have to have buy in. 1993, playing a much bigger team, we were just farm boys, they had gone to this high flying offense, we pounded them with good old fashion option formation iv, power and counter trey. The night before was the for shadowing, when our jv whipped them just as bad. If your not going to buy in, then you will continue to lose. What is option formation?
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 1, 2019 7:42:14 GMT -6
meant to say wishbone, sometimes the wrong words come out of my fingers that are in my head, that has increased as I have gotten older
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 1, 2019 18:25:41 GMT -6
I haven't read the entire thread yet and maybe what I'm about to write has been posted... I can't help but think about this inversely from the way the OP has presented it, particularly because our team, community, etc continues to battle it. Our "culture" is affected by our scheme and therefore prevents us from reaching our maximum potential. I believe kids are more savvy than they used to be. There's more information being passed around which allows kids, etc to form ideas and opinions of their own. In short, it's hard to explain to a group of kids, parents, etc that absolutely hate running/watching old school wing-t when they know there are modern variations that are "cooler" and more successful/relevant. We're talking about players that can cite the Auburn's of the football world and question "why we don't?" Our players are true 2 way guys and I'm just the DC but I can tell you it is way more challenging managing the psychological mind F@#$ these kids face during games because we struggle on offense AND they hate playing in it at the same time. All this to say I definitely believe that there are times when your culture better be in order or your job will be a lot harder and even risk possibly losing your team altogether. try reading first, then responding you'll gain a lot in terms of the framework of the three page discussion
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 1, 2019 18:26:54 GMT -6
Haven’t read through all of the posts but isn’t Scheme a big part of a team’s Culture??? The 2 should definitely co exist Try reading first before you respond
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 1, 2019 19:12:59 GMT -6
I haven't read the entire thread yet and maybe what I'm about to write has been posted... I can't help but think about this inversely from the way the OP has presented it, particularly because our team, community, etc continues to battle it. Our "culture" is affected by our scheme and therefore prevents us from reaching our maximum potential. I believe kids are more savvy than they used to be. There's more information being passed around which allows kids, etc to form ideas and opinions of their own. In short, it's hard to explain to a group of kids, parents, etc that absolutely hate running/watching old school wing-t when they know there are modern variations that are "cooler" and more successful/relevant. We're talking about players that can cite the Auburn's of the football world and question "why we don't?" Our players are true 2 way guys and I'm just the DC but I can tell you it is way more challenging managing the psychological mind F@#$ these kids face during games because we struggle on offense AND they hate playing in it at the same time. All this to say I definitely believe that there are times when your culture better be in order or your job will be a lot harder and even risk possibly losing your team altogether. try reading first, then responding you'll gain a lot in terms of the framework of the three page discussion In his defense, most of the first few pages were simply the Original Poster creating a strawman definition of culture to attack and a myriad of posters trying to point out to him that his definition was not culture. So, reading all of that probably isn't of much use.
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Post by option1 on Jun 2, 2019 5:35:25 GMT -6
I haven't read the entire thread yet and maybe what I'm about to write has been posted... I can't help but think about this inversely from the way the OP has presented it, particularly because our team, community, etc continues to battle it. Our "culture" is affected by our scheme and therefore prevents us from reaching our maximum potential. I believe kids are more savvy than they used to be. There's more information being passed around which allows kids, etc to form ideas and opinions of their own. In short, it's hard to explain to a group of kids, parents, etc that absolutely hate running/watching old school wing-t when they know there are modern variations that are "cooler" and more successful/relevant. We're talking about players that can cite the Auburn's of the football world and question "why we don't?" Our players are true 2 way guys and I'm just the DC but I can tell you it is way more challenging managing the psychological mind F@#$ these kids face during games because we struggle on offense AND they hate playing in it at the same time. All this to say I definitely believe that there are times when your culture better be in order or your job will be a lot harder and even risk possibly losing your team altogether. try reading first, then responding you'll gain a lot in terms of the framework of the three page discussion K
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 11:07:10 GMT -6
This thread was a pretty fascinating read in terms of how coaches look at things differently and I agree with just about everyone on here on things they said. JGordon is who I agreed the best with on it and especially with the Army principles of "Be Know Do". I look at it as a Be who you are, know who you are, and do who you are. And all 3 is what makes teams champions.
The "Be" part as culture of the teams with the best culture don't necessarily have to say the word culture, but rather live it as a team and they may not know it. I agree the buzzword culture that is out now is not really culture it is more of a social media guy making himself sound good.
I also think the scheme part may be getting mixed up with people as well in here. I think some people are taking it as when coaches say they will "out scheme you they are coming up with new and improved ideas no one else is using in their high flying offense that no one can stop and their 400 RPO's etc. Scheme is all tied to culture and it is the scheme you know. Scheme can be the Maryland I and if you know how to run it very well and can run it in a way that makes it difficult for your opponents, that is out scheming people. One of the best teams in our state who has multiple state championships run the Maryland I and run few plays form it. Are they out scheming teams? You bet they are because they have an answer for everything and run it in ways that stresses the defense? Do they have a great culture? Yes because they buy into everything they do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 15:44:14 GMT -6
There is a culture that beats scheme but i cant verbalize it.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 18, 2019 21:00:46 GMT -6
There is a culture that beats scheme but i cant verbalize it. ?
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2019 21:14:43 GMT -6
There is a culture that beats scheme but i cant verbalize it. ? He's not wrong. It's hard to say what it is but you know it when you see it.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 18, 2019 21:25:04 GMT -6
He's not wrong. It's hard to say what it is but you know it when you see it. Ok. Misread. Thought he was saying he knew what culture was better than scheme, but couldn’t/wouldn’t say it. Misread. My bad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 6:12:50 GMT -6
He's not wrong. It's hard to say what it is but you know it when you see it. Ok. Misread. Thought he was saying he knew what culture was better than scheme, but couldn’t/wouldn’t say it. Misread. My bad. Its professionalism, a standard. Lets get our work done and go home. The caveat is getting a group of people together, a team, thats wants to excel, accomplish something. Coaches who are organized, motivated, players who want to be coached, want to work and be good. " xxxx has talent but wont go to class" "Xxxx plays and practices great when he want to" "Every day tell players x,y, and z to get in the drill, every bleepin day.." "Coach x is first to leave, last to arrive.." At the end of the day, its about winning on friday night. Everything else is a side benefit. Our hc said it, he is done holding hands. And we we won last night.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2019 6:38:45 GMT -6
Ok. Misread. Thought he was saying he knew what culture was better than scheme, but couldn’t/wouldn’t say it. Misread. My bad. Its professionalism, a standard. Lets get our work done and go home. The caveat is getting a group of people together, a team, thats wants to excel, accomplish something. Coaches who are organized, motivated, players who want to be coached, want to work and be good. " xxxx has talent but wont go to class" "Xxxx plays and practices great when he want to" "Every day tell players x,y, and z to get in the drill, every bleepin day.." "Coach x is first to leave, last to arrive.." At the end of the day, its about winning on friday night. Everything else is a side benefit. Our hc said it, he is done holding hands. And we weon last night. Great post!!
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