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Post by hoptions on Mar 21, 2007 14:38:05 GMT -6
I need some advice…and a chance to vent.
In the three years since we have taken over the football program coaches form the basketball team, wrestling team, and track team have done some talking behind our backs. Most of them do not like the HC because they feel a teaching position was created for him just because he is a football coach. They also feel that the BFS system that we have encouraged, maybe even pushed for, every sport to use is strictly a football program. Some of these coaches have even tried to discourage lifting, and discourage athletes and their ability. This crap we have been able to head off and keep kids in the weight room, with the exception of the basketball coaches telling kids they can’t play if they lift!!! Our AD who says SHE is supportive of the lifting program for all sports does not seem to see any problem…or at least does not believe any of this is going on.
However we now have a new problem…
We have a few athletes who receive recruiting information form several D1 colleges. Some because they look like studs on paper and these schools what to see what they have. A couple of them are big time, IMO.
Now I here that our basketball coaches and one of the tack coaches are telling these football players that the we, the football staff at our school, are sending out these recruiting letters ourselves, and that they are fake and nothing but propaganda to build excitement for the football program.
We are a fairly small school that shares a lot of athletes. As a football program we encourage every football player to play multiple sports. We have also been very supportive of other sports at our school. I myself attended every boys basketball game and helped to rally the student section at home and away games. I also sped countless hours of my free time in the weight room helping those athletes who believe in lifting for every sport regardless of what sport or sex they are.
Now I know a knock out drag our fist fight is wrong…but what the hell are we supposed to do!!!
Please help….
Hoptions
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Post by davecisar on Mar 21, 2007 14:52:00 GMT -6
That is incredible, unbelieveable, what covetous green eyed clowns.
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Post by brophy on Mar 21, 2007 14:54:50 GMT -6
There is only one thing you CAN do in these situations...........  Put a POUND of marijuana in the basketball coach's vehicle and call the cops. |
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 21, 2007 14:55:50 GMT -6
Hearts and Minds!!!! Make football more fun and more appealing than basketball.
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Post by hoptions on Mar 21, 2007 15:10:50 GMT -6
JHA
THe Idea of going that route has crossed our minds, It hurts me to think that since I love all sports and our football staff is made up of all former 3 sprot HS athletes...
Thanks for listening and keep the comments comming please.
Hoptions
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 21, 2007 15:19:28 GMT -6
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Post by coachjd on Mar 21, 2007 15:19:54 GMT -6
you need to call their azzes on the carpet. Inform them that this what we have heard, and ask if there is any truth to this. Be pro-active!!! If they blow you off, then you can start your holy jihad on them and recruit every damn kid with a heartbeat and make football the most important thing in school and town.
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Post by cjamerson on Mar 21, 2007 15:58:28 GMT -6
Don't stoop to their level. Confront and question the coach that is responsible.
Why would they question the validity of a letters from schools for any athlete? It's rare for any of my athletes to receive any recruiting info from schools...when it does, we celebrate their achievements! We certainly don't rain on their parade...on second thought, I'd shove a football up that coach's...well, you know
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Post by davecisar on Mar 21, 2007 16:08:47 GMT -6
We had a problem that has some parallels. We run a youth program, very succesfull play 11-12 games.
The local Jr High loses with regularity, and can play just 4 eight minute quarter games, a 6 week season.
We let our 7th graders play both if they want, they practice with us just 1 day a week while the Jr Hogh season goes on, no overlap in practice. When their season is over they are back with uis full time, we play on Sundays, them on Thursdays.
The school told the kids they could not play for us and the school.
We were counseled that no one can deny public school children the right to participate in an activity due to anything other than grade eligibility, disciplinary issues and of course scheduling conflicts. It is illegal and in your case immoral as well. In Nebraska a HS volleyball coach forbid players from playing club volleyball. It went to court, the school and coach lost and now no one usually tries such bullying tactics. All one has to do is call them on it and be backed up. Of course with us it was one of our well informed parents that had a sister as an attorney. As much as Im not fan of the ACLU, they were very willing to get involved as well had we had to play that card.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 21, 2007 17:11:35 GMT -6
Personally, I'd confront them directly and get some answers. And then I'd probably take the issue to the administration and see what I could get done there. I'd also be out there recruiting every kid I possibly could- IN A VERY UN-PC MANNER.
"Hey, why not play football, at least you'll win a few games."
We have the same problems with baseball in this area. They started up a fall baseball league and the coaches within the league were pulling the same kind of crap. Several kids have told me that the coaching staffs tell them that they'll never be considered for a baseball scholarship if the play football. They're telling the kids that the chances of them getting hurt in football are just to much and colleges won't look at them. Then, of course, they tell the kids that they'll never get a football scholarship because they're too small.
Spring/summer baseball is just as much of an issue... Appearantly there are "all kinds of studies" out there that show that off-season football weight training will make you slow and injury prone.
The basketball coach pulls the sh-t, but his teams contend for a state title every single year. There's not much you can say to him or about him.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Mar 21, 2007 18:05:59 GMT -6
Now I here that our basketball coaches and one of the tack coaches are telling these football players that the we, the football staff at our school, are sending out these recruiting letters ourselves, and that they are fake and nothing but propaganda to build excitement for the football program.
That's pretty out of hand...beyond what I had to deal with. At my previous school, we went through something similar- constant battles with other sports because for the first time in 24 years, the football team did well. Football had been a minor sport- they liked that. When we were building a program and winning games they were ticked off. I fought that for a few years (did Spring conditioning during track... some kids stopped going out for track, etc.)
In my 3rd year there, I lost some good kids to other sports. I made it a priority to work with the other programs. I became an assistant track and assistant wrestling coach. That was great for all situations. I asked the wrestling coach to be my freshman football coach. He liked the idea of being able to recruit wrestlers (since he did not have any freshmen in class), so he agreed and did a good job.
That went a LONG way in helping our situation (only basketball remained on the outside... and that coach cut his own throat).
They might come to realize that you are FOR athletes- not just football players (which you've done in the WR, but some coaches don't even know where that is, so it might not be as visible), then they will more likely support you (and the whole time, you can gage the workout based on the football needs).
With the current situation... I don't know. Confrontation seems necessary in this case though.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 21, 2007 18:10:37 GMT -6
Darrin Erstad first player taken in the baseball draft in 1995 was Nebraskas starting punter and IMHO the MVP of the Orange Bowl. Kept us in the game. hmmmm
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Post by coachcb on Mar 21, 2007 18:34:19 GMT -6
Why can't coaches realize that playing multiple sports will help IMPROVE performance in all of them?  ?? Even the weight room doesn't have to be an issue; develop an in-season program for the kids and fit it in when you can. |
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 21, 2007 21:41:29 GMT -6
LOL, What sports played beyond high school do not include strength and conditioning year around for their athletes? Be it basketball, baseball or track & field- in this day and age to suggest strength training is counter productive is pure ignorance. Strength and conditioning develops a better athlete and improves performance in any sport. How can a bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful and agile athlete be a bad thing?
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Post by redfish on Mar 21, 2007 21:59:00 GMT -6
We had an issue with our basketball coach concerning summer activity. He wanted the dual sport players to be available for all AAU team games and travels and had a problem with players putting in their weight room time before games. We require a certain number of workouts in the summer and frankly, our kids WANTED to lift. When our annual summer trips to lineman and skills camps, (GREAT camps, lots of fun, hard work, the kids have a ball) conflicted with a game, the BB coach went ballistic, even using the race card. (BB Coach is Black, players are black, FB coach is white) This backfired on the BB coach, as our players took it very personally and were willing to quit basketball over it. The FB coach told them that doing so would do much more harm than good. Quitting would keep them from playing HS basketball, something that they would never get another chance to do. Going to administration with complaints about the coach would damage the team and their teammates who didn't play football. He told them that if they were bothered by the racism, they owed it to their BB coach to let him know that they did not appreciate it and ask him to stop. Whether or not he was affected by it, they had an obligation as men to say something. He told them that you can't control how other people think, but through your actions you can show them different perspectives. He then told them he expected to see all of them on time when we left for camp.
The issue was never brought up again and as far as I can tell, lessons were learned and no big stink was raised. This is why I love my HC, he's always teaching for the kids' benefit. He didn't let himself get dragged into an ugly situation and through his actions, taught our players to stand up, respectfully, against wrongdoing.
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Post by saintrad on Mar 21, 2007 22:38:47 GMT -6
Now I know a knock out drag our fist fight is wrong…but what the hell are we supposed to do!!! Hoptions ahh ...just make sure if you take this option to wear a ski mask, change your voice, and monkey with their brakes too. Now in all seriousness, I would just keep doing what you are doing. Work on developing your leaders by giving them experience and knowledge as to the benefits of mulitple sports and weight training. |
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Post by warrior53 on Mar 22, 2007 20:11:53 GMT -6
We had a problem that has some parallels. We run a youth program, very succesfull play 11-12 games. The local Jr High loses with regularity, and can play just 4 eight minute quarter games, a 6 week season. We let our 7th graders play both if they want, they practice with us just 1 day a week while the Jr Hogh season goes on, no overlap in practice. When their season is over they are back with uis full time, we play on Sundays, them on Thursdays. The school told the kids they could not play for us and the school. We were counseled that no one can deny public school children the right to participate in an activity due to anything other than grade eligibility, disciplinary issues and of course scheduling conflicts. It is illegal and in your case immoral as well. In Nebraska a HS volleyball coach forbid players from playing club volleyball. It went to court, the school and coach lost and now no one usually tries such bullying tactics. All one has to do is call them on it and be backed up. Of course with us it was one of our well informed parents that had a sister as an attorney. As much as Im not fan of the ACLU, they were very willing to get involved as well had we had to play that card. Let me let you in on why those Jr High coaches and for that matter many coaches in the public school system are upset with this kind of thing. 1. What you do is for fun - what they do is their livelyhood and their life. 2. If your program is anything like ours here, you take the same kids and split them up on 5 teams and go play someone else's 5 teams and have a season - that is all fine and good except now they all believe they should be the starting tailback or quarterback at the Jr. High, and worse so do their parents 3. If your program is anything like ours here, your parent/coaches all think they know more because their high school back in the 70s were state champs and they know how to coach better than someone who studies it and does it for a job not a hobby until their son is in high school where he gets to rip the coaches there because they are not playing his son who was all-league and was on the Titans little league team who won the league championships and if they would just run the triple-double-reverse playaction pass with Little Johnny as the star maybe they would win some more games - troble is Little Johnny was 5 inches taller back then and now everyone has caught up because Little Johnny and his daddy didn't think he had to work hard anymore because he was definately going to get a college scholarship 4. You said You allow your players to play both, as if you were the one who deserves to be the one who will "allow" them to play that Jr. High school stuff. You are just weakening a team by that thinking and in the end putting doubt in kids minds as to where their loyalty should lie - which in the end is hopefully the High School that is fed by the Jr. High of which those boys attend. - By the way, I know I am putting words in your mouth a little on this one. Your "problem" is not on the same level as hoptions, nor should it be thought of as that way. I am sure you are a great person and really have no idea of how your actions are affecting the loyalty of the kids at that Jr. High where your boys go (again I am aware of my comparing your league to those around here and that may not be fair, but those issues above are real and things our coaches go through all the time). Nor are you aware of the list of problems your league causes for those schools, but you might just think about the lives you will affect if you bring in the ACLU to defend your right to coach these boys. |
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Post by coachmoore42 on Mar 22, 2007 20:58:46 GMT -6
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 22, 2007 22:08:46 GMT -6
Since your integrity has been put in question, it is time to have one heart to heart talk with the coaches who say that you are sending fake recruiting letters.
See if they really did say that and ask them WHY? I would do more listening than talking.
Not only do they put your integrity on the line, they are circumventing the hard work that your players have put into their favorite sport.
I'm at a school that also must share athletes but there is still some jealousy towards our football program because we have such a strong influence on 120 boys in our school. Our FB coaches go out of their way to recruit for other sports. BUT we put a lot of emphasis in our off-season strength and will never apologize to anyone for that (it's a liability issue and it would be ethically incorrect to not strengthen your players during the off-season). I'm all about advocating for other sports but you also must advocate for yours. Build the better mousetrap and the kids will come.
Your basketball coach is an idiot. (Please let him read this). Ask him why boys can beat girls at basketball. He'll give you a really dumb look, because he won't know what to say. Boys beat girls because they are stronger. PERIOD. Same reason that boys are faster than girls.
Keep doing what you are doing and do not give a Sh*$ what others think. If your admin has your back, that's all you need. If you are treating your players ethically and are supporting them to do other sports and to graduate, you are doing your job.
Pettiness can be so time consuming if you are involved.
We had a few coaches being a little petty with our weight program and we just kept our nose to the grindstone (we are a second year high school program) and didn't get involved with their gripes.
At this time, our track coach allows FB/Track kids to come in and do their core lifts before going to track practice. If he didn't do this he wouldn't have sprinters, jumpers or throwers because they would be in the weight room with their FB teammates even though we tell them to do other sports.
Keep the positive energy going in the strength program, reward you players and others will leave the dark side or will forever be blinded by their own inhibitions.
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Post by jlich285 on Mar 23, 2007 5:52:11 GMT -6
This is what you should do...screw them! Bury their BS programs by making yours the best. Leave no doubts who has the best program and what program runs that school. Make your kids feel as if they are the best because they are a football player. Find ways to elevate your program above anything that any other sport can offer them.
If that doesn't work get the bag of pot, put some in the trunk of their car and then call the cops.
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Post by miami5 on Mar 23, 2007 6:29:49 GMT -6
dido..we have had similar problems at our school also.. red fish, we have the same problem here with AAU sports, basketball...they cut into everything... we lost a lot of good athletes from track and baseball because of this..problem is they will not play basketball beyond HS.
there good but not that good...the coaches have no respect for the other sports.....
they even had gym time where they kicked our baseball team out of the gym this week (weather here in ct is bad) because they had the time for there basketball...sad thing is the AD agreed...
i don't think the principal knew of this, but he should here about it..
AAU hurts us big in summer time also
Miami5
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 23, 2007 6:36:07 GMT -6
Call them out in person. Most of these guys will just talk behind your back but not a word to your face. Point out the fact that we're not the enemy. We're all on the "same team" and that they need to work together or this will rip all of the programs to pieces. And by the way, if the HC had a position "made" for him, then he probably is a hot commodity in the admin's eyes. He needs to get proactive and start beating his chest a little about this. Overall, it is bad form by the guilty coaches... If all else fails, see Brophy's post for some pointers  |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 23, 2007 6:50:43 GMT -6
dido..problem is they will not play basketball beyond HS. there good but not that good...Miami5 YES! Same problems here...everyone wants to be the next Lebron, but they neglect the fact that average heights in the NBA are: Point Guard: Average height: 6-foot-2 Minimum height: 6-0 Shooting Guard: Avg: 6-6 Minimum: 6-4 Small Forward: Avg: 6-8 Minimum: 6-6 Power Forward: Avg: 6-10 Minimum: 6-8 Center: Avg: 7-0 Minimum: 6-10 proxy.espn.go.com/nba/draft2004/columns/story?id=1819103I am always straight up with kids about this. If you're a 5-8 point guard, don't even talk to me about D-1 basketball, let alone NBA! Our "big man" at my last school was 6'3"...everyone else were midgets, and none of them could even defend my washed-up fat a$$. They have to understand that players need to fit the mold to go to the highest levels of play...and of course there are rare instances when this is false. And as far as AAU goes, school sports come first. We had about 10 kids miss some summer workouts last season due to AAU tourneys in FLA. Bottom line is that we have a minimum number of workouts to attend, and you had better find a way to get them done... |
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Post by miami5 on Mar 23, 2007 8:34:34 GMT -6
good points whitmike... it still amazes me in this age that coaches still have no clue or don't want one...i have finally got the basketball ball team and coach at our school to come around after this years got beaten up on the court.. he looked at me and said " our kids are skinny compared to everyone else, we are getting pushed around out there.. can you set me up..
The AAU situation will be held in similar fashion, miss school work outs and pay the price...
Miami5
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Post by poweriguy on Mar 23, 2007 11:32:46 GMT -6
Let me ask this:
What if it were the other way around?
The football program taking the majority of the kids all the time, to the detriment of baseball, basketball, swim, and tennis? Is that appropriate?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 23, 2007 12:42:52 GMT -6
Let me ask this: What if it were the other way around? The football program taking the majority of the kids all the time, to the detriment of baseball, basketball, swim, and tennis? Is that appropriate? Absolutely! It's not really about which sport is taking kids from the other- the problem lies in the fact that coaches are hording kids and lying to them about why they should not play other sports. Don't get me wrong- football coaches are as guilty of this as any other coach. Bottom line is we all must make compromises. If the basketball coach wants his kids playing in an AAU tournament all summer, then we must come up with an agreement on the number of days those kids will miss. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 23, 2007 13:57:56 GMT -6
Might want to start tabulating the amount of baseball scholarships and BB scholarships your kids are getting awarded. My favorite is the baseball..because FULL BASEBALL SCHOLARSHIPS DO NOT EXIST. NOBODY..i repeat NOBODY ever gets a full baseball scholarship because of the equivalency rules. College baseball teams have the equivalent 11.5 scholarships (if memory serves me) to give their team. THATS IT. Not 11.5 a year....11.5 TOTAL...to field a team of 25 kids. Do the math. Make sure you do the math for those kids parents too.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 24, 2007 6:55:43 GMT -6
no matter what, maintain your dignity.
I think there's something called modeling that we adults need to show our players no matter how much we are under attack. Ther is nothing wrong with confronting the other sport coaches (away from the players) but it's important to leave those conversations amongst the adults.
You can press on without being arrogant or acting like your program is better than all of the others. H.S. Football is just a part of their journey. Your passion for your sport should be enough. It isn't an end all and some of the posts on this topic seem to be based on emotion rather than doing what is right.
It could be a very toxic environment if every coach went on a big crusade that his sport is so much better than others. In the long run, you could lose support and teenagers will see right through this.
Take the high road and promote your program with the understanding that you still have to coexist with other programs.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Mar 24, 2007 7:35:21 GMT -6
I agree with toughdowng completely. This is an issue that needs a joint meeting involving the coaches involved, the a.d., and possibly an administrator. If this situation turns into "bury their program", the kids are the ones that suffer. You have little control over the stupidity of other coaches. You control your emotions and actions. Why would you want to do things to make the other program suffer? You may not have any respect for this coach (I agree--he deserves absolutely no respect), but the kids want a winning program. Are you really to the point where you want to take that away from them because you don't like their coach? He may be doing this to you but the kids are the ones who lose here. They have a four year window of opportunity to make their athletic memories. Be responsible and honest in how you handle this. There is a wrong way and a correct way to deal with this. Please choose the correct way.
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Post by stackattack on Mar 24, 2007 8:10:06 GMT -6
Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but see if you can convince any of your assistants to coach another sport. This way the kids will constantly have a football coach with them in other sports and in their ear about playing football the next year. Furthermore, you could recruit more players from those other sports better.
This is our first year at our present school and we have coaches coaching basketball, wrestling, baseball, and track. The athletes in the school can't avoid us, and the other coaches don't have the balls to bad mouth us when we are around.
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