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Post by hunhdisciple on Feb 11, 2019 13:31:20 GMT -6
I loved the lack of commercials. Like, loved it a lot.
And I really liked them having coaches and QB's mic'd up for the game. Plus being able to listen in to the replay official was a good touch. I liked hearing them go through the angles on the play and basically talk through what they were seeing.
Some of their tweaks are good, I think.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 11, 2019 14:02:47 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that they major players will try to leverage their way into an actual NFL franchise. If the league grows and gains market share in the football entertainment industry, maybe it morphs into a competitor to the NFL and everything changes.
Probably not but I just read a book about the Raiders a while back and I remember that it talked about how Al Davis did something along these lines to obtain his team.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 11, 2019 14:14:04 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that they major players will try to leverage their way into an actual NFL franchise. If the league grows and gains market share in the football entertainment industry, maybe it morphs into a competitor to the NFL and everything changes. Probably not but I just read a book about the Raiders a while back and I remember that it talked about how Al Davis did something along these lines to obtain his team. My understanding is the contracts have an exit clause for the NFL. The reason the contracts are for three years is so the XFL can't poach AAF players next spring.
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Post by poundtherock1 on Feb 11, 2019 14:23:42 GMT -6
My thoughts are simple. This is more like pretty good college talent vs. not quite NFL talent. I'd like to see the NFL give some practice squad guys a shot at this. And any football is better than no football
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2019 14:32:34 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that they major players will try to leverage their way into an actual NFL franchise. If the league grows and gains market share in the football entertainment industry, maybe it morphs into a competitor to the NFL and everything changes. Probably not but I just read a book about the Raiders a while back and I remember that it talked about how Al Davis did something along these lines to obtain his team. There aren't any owners. All of the franchises are owned by the league.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 11, 2019 16:05:10 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that they major players will try to leverage their way into an actual NFL franchise. If the league grows and gains market share in the football entertainment industry, maybe it morphs into a competitor to the NFL and everything changes. Probably not but I just read a book about the Raiders a while back and I remember that it talked about how Al Davis did something along these lines to obtain his team. There aren't any owners. All of the franchises are owned by the league. Yes and the league leadership would become the new franchise owner. Wasn’t Al Davis president of the alternative football league before it folded and new teams were added to the NFL? My thoughts are purely speculative and based on a book I can’t even remember the details to. It just seems to me like there would need to be a huge upside to start the league and obtaining an NFL franchise would be that carrot. Plus with all the moving of teams in and out of cities there fan base vacancies that would welcome a new squad.
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2019 16:32:56 GMT -6
There aren't any owners. All of the franchises are owned by the league. Yes and the league leadership would become the new franchise owner. Wasn’t Al Davis president of the alternative football league before it folded and new teams were added to the NFL? My thoughts are purely speculative and based on a book I can’t even remember the details to. It just seems to me like there would need to be a huge upside to start the league and obtaining an NFL franchise would be that carrot. Plus with all the moving of teams in and out of cities there fan base vacancies that would welcome a new squad. There isn't much parallel between the AAF and AFL. The AFL didn't fold. It merged and became part of the NFL. Becoming part of the NFL was the goal of most AFL owners and league leadership. That's not the case with the AAF. The AAF was started by football people specifically to be a developmental league. I'm sure that the ownership model of the league was put in place to keep NFL wannabes like Trump and con men like some of the early owners of AFL teams out.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 11, 2019 18:56:38 GMT -6
Yes and the league leadership would become the new franchise owner. Wasn’t Al Davis president of the alternative football league before it folded and new teams were added to the NFL? My thoughts are purely speculative and based on a book I can’t even remember the details to. It just seems to me like there would need to be a huge upside to start the league and obtaining an NFL franchise would be that carrot. Plus with all the moving of teams in and out of cities there fan base vacancies that would welcome a new squad. There isn't much parallel between the AAF and AFL. The AFL didn't fold. It merged and became part of the NFL. Becoming part of the NFL was the goal of most AFL owners and league leadership. That's not the case with the AAF. The AAF was started by football people specifically to be a developmental league. I'm sure that the ownership model of the league was put in place to keep NFL wannabes like Trump and con men like some of the early owners of AFL teams out. I will be honest I am just making this shitt up As I go.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 19, 2019 19:07:50 GMT -6
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Post by jamesskeeler on Feb 19, 2019 19:38:33 GMT -6
Its pretty common for new businesses to have to oprate on a line of credit at first... The ratings are still pretty decent and im sure the NFL will get involved sooner than later.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:01:34 GMT -6
I was afraid it wouldn't last long, even with good ratings. The logistics of paying huge rosters full of players is tough for any pro league and they have 8 teams full of 52 guys making $250k a year, plus 11-13 coaches per team with huge salaries. I would like to see this succeed, but I forsee the product getting stale and ratings declining dramatically over the course of the season.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 20, 2019 17:13:05 GMT -6
I was afraid it wouldn't last long, even with good ratings. The logistics of paying huge rosters full of players is tough for any pro league and they have 8 teams full of 52 guys making $250k a year, plus 11-13 coaches per team with huge salaries. I would like to see this succeed, but I forsee the product getting stale and ratings declining dramatically over the course of the season. Yeah. I feel the same. I think the only way the league survives is if it gets subsidized by the NFL.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 20, 2019 18:49:58 GMT -6
From a business perspective it’s not just about profit, but cashflow. They may be in great shape long term but players need to be paid right now while money that the league is guaranteed to receive may not come in for a few weeks.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 20, 2019 21:28:43 GMT -6
I was afraid it wouldn't last long, even with good ratings. The logistics of paying huge rosters full of players is tough for any pro league and they have 8 teams full of 52 guys making $250k a year, plus 11-13 coaches per team with huge salaries. I would like to see this succeed, but I forsee the product getting stale and ratings declining dramatically over the course of the season. I believe I said somewhere before that the salary was 250 a year, but I believe it is 250 over 3 years, no guarantee. I could again be wrong though.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 21, 2019 8:46:03 GMT -6
I was afraid it wouldn't last long, even with good ratings. The logistics of paying huge rosters full of players is tough for any pro league and they have 8 teams full of 52 guys making $250k a year, plus 11-13 coaches per team with huge salaries. I would like to see this succeed, but I forsee the product getting stale and ratings declining dramatically over the course of the season. This is why I think instead of a biz plan like this, starting w a huge negative cash flow & needing to get into the black fast on the flow, much of it being debt service, it'd be better to start w a local, inexpensive minor league & slowly build it -- maybe in large part via acquisitions. It might take many yrs., might never get there, but at least won't lose a whole shirt factory. But I do think the single entity model, as opposed to franchising clubs, is the right idea. You might have many stock holders, but centralized control offers better opp'ty for growing it the way they want.
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Post by kcbazooka on Feb 21, 2019 8:50:24 GMT -6
Agree with a lot of what has been said. I like the attempts at player safety. It’s better than watching college or pro basketball. But then again this is a football coaches site - most of us would watch football over anything. It is a minor league and I think it will have a hard time surviving at the level the league wants. There’s a reason minor league baseball or basketball isn’t on tv.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 21, 2019 9:01:47 GMT -6
There isn't much parallel between the AAF and AFL. The AFL didn't fold. It merged and became part of the NFL. Becoming part of the NFL was the goal of most AFL owners and league leadership. That's not the case with the AAF. The AAF was started by football people specifically to be a developmental league. I'm sure that the ownership model of the league was put in place to keep NFL wannabes like Trump and con men like some of the early owners of AFL teams out. I will be honest I am just making this shitt up As I go. There was in the late 1960s another attempt at a major league competing w the NFL & AFL: the Continental F.L. They were serious contenders, but squeezed into smaller markets where they couldn't survive long w those expenses on the gate alone w/o TV, which they wound up not getting. They stayed afloat for several seasons, though, and were taken as seriously by the local media as the NFL & AFL. Nobody there considered them rinky-dink, but they were practically unheard of outside their local markets. However, their travel schedule was considerable, & they were competing for talent vs. the NFL & AFL clubs whose revenues had been TV-boosted. Had the Con.FL started 5 yrs. earlier, their franchises would probably still be in biz today; maybe they'd've eventually joined the AFL, NFL, or both. However, they waited to see the success of the AFL, & by then it was too late!
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 21, 2019 9:13:17 GMT -6
Agree with a lot of what has been said. I like the attempts at player safety. It’s better than watching college or pro basketball. But then again this is a football coaches site - most of us would watch football over anything. It is a minor league and I think it will have a hard time surviving at the level the league wants. There’s a reason minor league baseball or basketball isn’t on tv. Right, but minor league baseball (at least) is surviving via the gate. I learned about this only a few yrs. ago. As far as I knew then, minor league baseball had become unprofitable decades ago, and minor clubs survived only by being subsidized by the majors of whom they were the farm clubs, having many of their players under contract to them & therefore free for the use of the farm team. But I learned that in recent decades, independent (as well as affiliate) minor league baseball clubs have become profitable again! Seems a lot of audiences still want the experience of being at games from May Day to Labor Day maybe with their family or another group, but are priced out of major league games, or can't get tix even at those prices on the dates they want.
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Post by mnike23 on Feb 21, 2019 12:19:25 GMT -6
I was afraid it wouldn't last long, even with good ratings. The logistics of paying huge rosters full of players is tough for any pro league and they have 8 teams full of 52 guys making $250k a year, plus 11-13 coaches per team with huge salaries. I would like to see this succeed, but I forsee the product getting stale and ratings declining dramatically over the course of the season. the contracts are 3/250k, non guaranteed.
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Post by mnike23 on Feb 21, 2019 12:26:24 GMT -6
spurrier came out in and said that the main investors all kinda fell thru and thats when this guy put up 250mil. ebersol has stated they had levels of investments, a,b,c,d, and was filling them up slowly. they were not behind payroll 8 ball like noted, but the 250 mil gets them pretty much thru infinity in terms sustainability.
the product is pretty good and if they put up #s weekly in the high scoring ranges like a couple games has, its only going to get better.
oh and how about starter being the official outfitter? takes me right back to 1991, wish I had my ole starter jacket pullover now! looked them up, 159 a pop! for a freaking starter jacket. AAF will be just fine.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 22, 2019 12:53:20 GMT -6
Agree with a lot of what has been said. I like the attempts at player safety. It’s better than watching college or pro basketball. But then again this is a football coaches site - most of us would watch football over anything. It is a minor league and I think it will have a hard time surviving at the level the league wants. There’s a reason minor league baseball or basketball isn’t on tv. Right, but minor league baseball (at least) is surviving via the gate. I learned about this only a few yrs. ago. As far as I knew then, minor league baseball had become unprofitable decades ago, and minor clubs survived only by being subsidized by the majors of whom they were the farm clubs, having many of their players under contract to them & therefore free for the use of the farm team. But I learned that in recent decades, independent (as well as affiliate) minor league baseball clubs have become profitable again! Seems a lot of audiences still want the experience of being at games from May Day to Labor Day maybe with their family or another group, but are priced out of major league games, or can't get tix even at those prices on the dates they want. True, but some of the bigger salaries are somewhat subsidized by the parent club. And minor league teams work their butts off in promotions there’s actually a convention for anyone with a wacky act to set up dates with these teams. Anything you can think of, the dog who’s a bat boy, tumbling down the basepaths, all that minor league goodness.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 22, 2019 18:30:37 GMT -6
Right, but minor league baseball (at least) is surviving via the gate. I learned about this only a few yrs. ago. As far as I knew then, minor league baseball had become unprofitable decades ago, and minor clubs survived only by being subsidized by the majors of whom they were the farm clubs, having many of their players under contract to them & therefore free for the use of the farm team. But I learned that in recent decades, independent (as well as affiliate) minor league baseball clubs have become profitable again! Seems a lot of audiences still want the experience of being at games from May Day to Labor Day maybe with their family or another group, but are priced out of major league games, or can't get tix even at those prices on the dates they want. True, but some of the bigger salaries are somewhat subsidized by the parent club. And minor league teams work their butts off in promotions there’s actually a convention for anyone with a wacky act to set up dates with these teams. Anything you can think of, the dog who’s a bat boy, tumbling down the basepaths, all that minor league goodness. They sure do. Fireworks shows, picnic in the outfield, etc. So they're selling a combination of entertainment. Doesn't make it unsuccessful. But the independent clubs have no parent club, so nobody to subsidize their players' salaries.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 9:33:34 GMT -6
Agree with a lot of what has been said. I like the attempts at player safety. It’s better than watching college or pro basketball. But then again this is a football coaches site - most of us would watch football over anything. It is a minor league and I think it will have a hard time surviving at the level the league wants. There’s a reason minor league baseball or basketball isn’t on tv. Right, but minor league baseball (at least) is surviving via the gate. I learned about this only a few yrs. ago. As far as I knew then, minor league baseball had become unprofitable decades ago, and minor clubs survived only by being subsidized by the majors of whom they were the farm clubs, having many of their players under contract to them & therefore free for the use of the farm team. But I learned that in recent decades, independent (as well as affiliate) minor league baseball clubs have become profitable again! Seems a lot of audiences still want the experience of being at games from May Day to Labor Day maybe with their family or another group, but are priced out of major league games, or can't get tix even at those prices on the dates they want. This is the thing with baseball. MLB ratings and attendance are declining, especially as their games become more expensive to attend and are on TV less and less. But minor league attendance has been growing considerably because the minor league teams have really gone out of their way to give fans a quality, affordable, wholesome experience. There's absolutely nothing wrong with selling people a complete package of entertainment, including fireworks, kid-friendly games, and "fun" acts to get parents to bring their kids to the ballpark again and again. It's smart marketing. It's good for the game and I think that any upstart football league could learn a lot from this stuff.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 24, 2019 10:23:16 GMT -6
at some point somebody is going to say screw it, players are going to be forced sign a waiver and we are playing tackle football w/o non sensical rules we are having shoved down our throats. And it will go over big. For about a decade we've had what's now American Sevens (formerly Town Beef) wearing about what would be allowed in rugby, although they do play a game modified for safety: 7-a-side; no snap, ball in play by say-so; instead of kicks, a 3-on-1 throw-off. So it's clear there's interest out there in a game where rules that may affect safety are modified somehow. I could easily see a league promoting itself to both players and audiences saying, "We believe our game is safe enough; it differs from the NFL's in the following ways, and we don't think the differences on net make our game significantly more dangerous than theirs." For instance, a league could outlaw the face mask/bar part of the helmet, & then say, "Our players are now discouraged enough from leading w their heads that we can allow close combination blocking on kickoffs & still be safer than their game." Many coaches in the late 1950s wanted NCAA to outlaw the face mask or bar, pointing to certain injuries that'd occurred recently, but they were unable to produce statistics showing head or neck injuries or concussions had increased due to the masks, so the rules committee held fast, & by the middle 1960s that concern had passed. Thing is, nobody had a study that came down on either side of the question. Periodically NCAA takes consensus statements from physicians' groups, but only rarely conducts prospective or even strong retrospective studies, so everybody's practically guessing as to safety issues.
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Post by kcbazooka on Apr 4, 2019 6:32:25 GMT -6
That didn’t last long. Too bad, as a coach I enjoyed it.
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Post by Victor on Apr 4, 2019 8:55:29 GMT -6
It is sad for the players who now are left without where to live, the hotels were paid by the league. The injuried players also now need to pay for theier recovery. Rumors are that the league was to test the play-by-play thing that could be use with gambling.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 18:29:28 GMT -6
That didn’t last long. Too bad, as a coach I enjoyed it. I hate that it couldn't last, but I can't say I didn't see it coming. It was good to see football in the spring, but the whole thing just had so many fundamental issues that it was always going to be even more of an uphill battle than it needed to be. I feel terrible for the players, workers, and vendors who got screwed over when the league folded. Those people will likely never get paid. Some of them are owed millions. Hopefully the XFL re-launch can learn some things from this. Personally, I think the big lesson here for any upstart football league is to: A:) Keep costs (especially player and coach salaries and other overhead) under control B:) Embrace being different and really set yourself apart from the NFL, rather than trying to look like a knock-off of it. The Lingerie Football League (or whatever it calls itself now) has been more successful than the AAF and all its TV backing was. Think about that...
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 4, 2019 18:38:22 GMT -6
That didn’t last long. Too bad, as a coach I enjoyed it. I hate that it couldn't last, but I can't say I didn't see it coming. It was good to see football in the spring, but the whole thing just had so many fundamental issues that it was always going to be even more of an uphill battle than it needed to be. I feel terrible for the players, workers, and vendors who got screwed over when the league folded. Those people will likely never get paid. Some of them are owed millions. Hopefully the XFL re-launch can learn some things from this. Personally, I think the big lesson here for any upstart football league is to: A:) Keep costs (especially player and coach salaries and other overhead) under control B:) Embrace being different and really set yourself apart from the NFL, rather than trying to look like a knock-off of it. The Lingerie Football League (or whatever it calls itself now) has been more successful than the AAF and all its TV backing was. Think about that... From what I heard, the main issue was the reliance on a sole financial backer who decided his vision was different than the "football people" Ironically, that is somewhat similar to the USFL, which was a viable league until Trump's vision differed with others.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 18:53:50 GMT -6
From what I heard, the main issue was the reliance on a sole financial backer who decided his vision was different than the "football people" Ironically, that is somewhat similar to the USFL, which was a viable league until Trump's vision differed with others. That's what I thought of, as well. The USFL was doing fine until Trump decided they need to shift to going head-to-head with NFL games in the fall and emulate them in other ways.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 4, 2019 20:00:21 GMT -6
In 2001 I was offered a contract to coach in the FIRST XFL. One thing you have to do (as a Coach) is to get your money put in ESCROW. If they won't do that, don't accept the position!
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