biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 4, 2019 13:49:47 GMT -6
I was in the gym yesterday and overheard some hockey guy from a rival school talking about how his Dad got a prescription for testostone replacement therapy and he just gives it to him. I'm not sure if I was just kids talking crap, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
I brought it up to our athletic director and we had an amusing conversation where the take away was "steroids are illegal, but we can't test because the district doesn't want to get sued."
I immediately thought of our kids because they train at a gym where several NFL players train and there has to be PEDS floating around. I would never do this, but the dark side of me wants to let the kids know the policy and give them the wink just because of the bureaucratic nonsense of this policy.
I guess my question is.. do you in your area have any course of action if you suspect a kid is gassed up, or is this where we are at in the realm of high school sports?
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Post by s73 on Jan 4, 2019 13:53:19 GMT -6
If my kids are juicing they better ask for a refund.
It's not just s concern for us.
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DLgaDC
Freshmen Member
Posts: 80
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Post by DLgaDC on Jan 4, 2019 14:12:25 GMT -6
If my kids are juicing they better ask for a refund. It's not just s concern for us. That is freakin hilarious!!!! I was thinking the same thing about our kids On the real it you see any signs any kids abnormally roid raging I would go to the counselor, that would be their area.
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 4, 2019 14:21:32 GMT -6
Our kids are literally too poor. I'm almost 60 and I've still got more muscle than most of them.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 4, 2019 14:27:13 GMT -6
If my kids are juicing they better ask for a refund. It's not just s concern for us. Ha, I've been there. After years of being crap to mediocre, we finally had a decent year and got bumped in the state quarterfinal. We have quite a few guys coming back. I'm not saying I would do this, but the temptation is to go to the third party gym owner and pay to have him push that stuff on our kids to put us over the top. The kids get scholarships, we get championships he gets to be known as the recruit factory gym. It's a win for everybody. If I had some high falutin six figure job down in Texas and I was on the hot seat, and I knew my guys weren't ever going to be tested, doesn't that create a temptation that I'm guessing some might fall in to?
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Post by coachcb on Jan 4, 2019 14:32:11 GMT -6
There isn't much you can do, unless you actually catch the kids with the PED. Even if a school does drug testing, testing for steroids is prohibitively expensive and you're not guaranteed to catch the kids any way. Testing for steroids means testing for the metabolites of the drug and each one has a different set of metabolites. There's no all-encompassing test that will detect all types of anabolic steroids: companies are stuck testing for over a dozen different metabolites.
Honestly, you'll know it if kids are using steroids and it's not because they'll become 'roided out, angry monsters in the weight room. Quite the opposite; they'll be basketcases. A portion of all steroids break down to estrogen. So, if a kid is using steroids, he's not only upping his testosterone levels, he's spiking his estrogen levels and literally giving himself PMS.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 15:09:03 GMT -6
All you can do is warn them of the dangers of it , tell the parents what to look for , and if they are hope they are doing it with someone who is experienced, and can guide them
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Post by 19delta on Jan 4, 2019 20:07:17 GMT -6
There is really nothing you can do. In fact, if you accuse a kid, you had better have really good evidence that a kid is using. If not, you might find yourself in a real sh1tstorm.
I think the biggest misconception is that steroids are a magic bullet. The thing is, if someone is taking steroids or performance enhancers, they still have to train. They are not going to get swole sitting on the couch playing video games.
So, if you have kids who are big and strong from taking performance enhancers, those kids would probably have been your biggest and strongest kids anyway.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 5, 2019 0:02:44 GMT -6
There is really nothing you can do. In fact, if you accuse a kid, you had better have really good evidence that a kid is using. If not, you might find yourself in a real sh1tstorm. I think the biggest misconception is that steroids are a magic bullet. The thing is, if someone is taking steroids or performance enhancers, they still have to train. They are not going to get swole sitting on the couch playing video games. So, if you have kids who are big and strong from taking performance enhancers, those kids would probably have been your biggest and strongest kids anyway. I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 5, 2019 0:10:40 GMT -6
There is really nothing you can do. In fact, if you accuse a kid, you had better have really good evidence that a kid is using. If not, you might find yourself in a real sh1tstorm. I think the biggest misconception is that steroids are a magic bullet. The thing is, if someone is taking steroids or performance enhancers, they still have to train. They are not going to get swole sitting on the couch playing video games. So, if you have kids who are big and strong from taking performance enhancers, those kids would probably have been your biggest and strongest kids anyway. I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt. I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 5, 2019 7:00:11 GMT -6
I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt. I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario. With what money are we supposed to do UAs on every student athlete? Like 19delta said I just haven't seen it and I too have been on the sideline for 20+ years.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 5, 2019 7:32:57 GMT -6
I would be curious to see a study done that shows the impact of steroids or PED's with the HS population knowing what crappy diets and sleep patterns they have. No other changes to a kids life other than here are some roids, go take 'em. I would think you still need to sleep more than 2 hours a night and eat something other than Pop Tarts!
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Post by wingtol on Jan 5, 2019 8:53:55 GMT -6
There is really nothing you can do. In fact, if you accuse a kid, you had better have really good evidence that a kid is using. If not, you might find yourself in a real sh1tstorm. I think the biggest misconception is that steroids are a magic bullet. The thing is, if someone is taking steroids or performance enhancers, they still have to train. They are not going to get swole sitting on the couch playing video games. So, if you have kids who are big and strong from taking performance enhancers, those kids would probably have been your biggest and strongest kids anyway. I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt. A. It's expensive to test so many HS probably couldn't afford it unlike other levels when a governing body does the testing and pays for it. B. Doesn't that scenario play out on football fields all over the country every Friday night where some teams are just physically out matched without PEDs being involved?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2019 9:03:00 GMT -6
There is really nothing you can do. In fact, if you accuse a kid, you had better have really good evidence that a kid is using. If not, you might find yourself in a real sh1tstorm. I think the biggest misconception is that steroids are a magic bullet. The thing is, if someone is taking steroids or performance enhancers, they still have to train. They are not going to get swole sitting on the couch playing video games. So, if you have kids who are big and strong from taking performance enhancers, those kids would probably have been your biggest and strongest kids anyway. I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt. Why do you think it matters the most? It would seem to matter the least, for the reasons mentioned by 19delta in the post you quoted. Do you not believe such 250 lb "super gorilla" players are possible (and common) without the use of steroids? I would suspect that on the average Friday night in October there are as many if not more games with severe physical talent discrepancies than there are equal match ups.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 11:09:30 GMT -6
I was in the gym yesterday and overheard some hockey guy from a rival school talking about how his Dad got a prescription for testostone replacement therapy and he just gives it to him. I'm not sure if I was just kids talking crap, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I brought it up to our athletic director and we had an amusing conversation where the take away was "steroids are illegal, but we can't test because the district doesn't want to get sued." I immediately thought of our kids because they train at a gym where several NFL players train and there has to be PEDS floating around. I would never do this, but the dark side of me wants to let the kids know the policy and give them the wink just because of the bureaucratic nonsense of this policy. I guess my question is.. do you in your area have any course of action if you suspect a kid is gassed up, or is this where we are at in the realm of high school sports? I'd be tempted to address it at some point when the team is gathered together and warn them not to do it. Just say "I heard there's been some kids talking about steroids here," then quickly explain that it's illegal, players on your team are not to do that, and how doing so will royally f*ck up their hormones at that age, potentially for life. I think important to do that and document it just as a CYA measure in case something happens down the road. I'd also be tempted to remind them at their age, with their hormone levels, steroids don't really add anything but risks and costs. As soon as they put the juice in, within a couple of weeks their bodies will be down regulating their own testosterone production and then all they're doing is sticking themselves and wasting money. If they still like the idea of their balls shriveling up, gross acne, feeling moody and depressed all the time, getting infections around injection sites (because they'll probably be re-using needles), damaging their livers for life (if taking oral steroids, which it sounds like they're not) and possibly never being able to have kids or get their man-parts fully functional again... I guess that's one determined group of juicers. Bodybuilders and pro athletes who use steroids "correctly" have those side effects to an extent. A bunch of HS kids probably aren't going to be that on point with cycling and stuff, creating some serious problems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 11:12:20 GMT -6
There isn't much you can do, unless you actually catch the kids with the PED. Even if a school does drug testing, testing for steroids is prohibitively expensive and you're not guaranteed to catch the kids any way. Testing for steroids means testing for the metabolites of the drug and each one has a different set of metabolites. There's no all-encompassing test that will detect all types of anabolic steroids: companies are stuck testing for over a dozen different metabolites. Honestly, you'll know it if kids are using steroids and it's not because they'll become 'roided out, angry monsters in the weight room. Quite the opposite; they'll be basketcases. A portion of all steroids break down to estrogen. So, if a kid is using steroids, he's not only upping his testosterone levels, he's spiking his estrogen levels and literally giving himself PMS. Yeah. HS kids on steroids are going to butcher their hormones. Bodybuilders and pro athletes who know what they're doing have to carefully plan their cycles and take several different compounds to get the results they want and carefully balance the aromatase. Even then, it usually takes them a few cycles over the course of a year or two to get things dialed in. The sophomore DT who's never made higher than D in Science or Math class isn't going to go to all that trouble. He'll just develop bitch tits, small balls, acne, and be a moody bastard with no energy until he eventually gets off the stuff and gives his body weeks to reset.
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Post by pitt1980 on Jan 5, 2019 19:52:03 GMT -6
The obliviousness on display in this thread is really pretty disturbing
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2019 20:00:46 GMT -6
The obliviousness on display in this thread is really pretty disturbing "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" I am fairly positive that very few if any of the posters in this thread have salaries depending upon kids using PEDs to achieve success. That said, I believe several may have salaries that could be in jeopardy if they were to accuse students of using illegal drugs--even if they had probably cause. Are you suggesting that you personally have launched and had a successful crusade eradicating PED use by your student athletes? How did you identify the students? How did you then ensure they were tested and faced repercussions if necessary?
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Post by pitt1980 on Jan 5, 2019 20:26:19 GMT -6
The obliviousness on display in this thread is really pretty disturbing "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" I am fairly positive that very few if any of the posters in this thread have salaries depending upon kids using PEDs to achieve success. That said, I believe several may have salaries that could be in jeopardy if they were to accuse students of using illegal drugs--even if they had probably cause. Are you suggesting that you personally have launched and had a successful crusade eradicating PED use by your student athletes? How did you identify the students? How did you then ensure they were tested and faced repercussions if necessary? I'd suggest that varying rates of PED usage explains the publicly observed success and failure of large swathes of our sport, across many different levels of the sport
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2019 20:27:42 GMT -6
I am fairly positive that very few if any of the posters in this thread have salaries depending upon kids using PEDs to achieve success. That said, I believe several may have salaries that could be in jeopardy if they were to accuse students of using illegal drugs--even if they had probably cause. Are you suggesting that you personally have launched and had a successful crusade eradicating PED use by your student athletes? How did you identify the students? How did you then ensure they were tested and faced repercussions if necessary? I'd suggest that varying rates of PED usage explains the publicly observed success and failure of large swathes of our sport, across many different levels of the sport Interesting perspective. I can't say I agree with it, particularly at the HS level, and even more particularly in the scenario described the by OP. So I am clear, you are suggesting that such large numbers of athletes in HS, COLLEGE AND THE NFL use steriods that it basically carves out the landscape of the sport with regards to winning and losing?
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 5, 2019 20:33:03 GMT -6
I am on test replacement. It gets me to normal levels but less than what a high school boy should have naturally. He shouldn’t be getting any greater benefit than anyone else.
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Post by pitt1980 on Jan 5, 2019 21:03:48 GMT -6
I'd suggest that varying rates of PED usage explains the publicly observed success and failure of large swathes of our sport, across many different levels of the sport Interesting perspective. I can't say I agree with it, particularly at the HS level, and even more particularly in the scenario described the by OP. So I am clear, you are suggesting that such large numbers of athletes in HS, COLLEGE AND THE NFL use steriods that it basically carves out the landscape of the sport with regards to winning and losing? Basically yes xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3017459&mc=47&forum_id=2I think at the HS level, it's taboo enough that in most areas the taboo holds. But there are some areas where it doesn't. You know those schools that send so many guys DI that something must be in the water? Well, maybe there actually is in the water so to speak.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 5, 2019 22:21:17 GMT -6
I just think it's so weird that testing at every other level in every sport is such an everyday occurrence. It's just a truth In sport. . Yet, at the high school level where it probably matters the most, it's taboo. I thought it was our responsibility to look out for these kids welfare. I'm more concerned for the poor 150 lb sophomore quarterback who gets his career ended by the 19 year old 250 lb super senior gorilla who is maiming children to get his shot at a scholarship. Isn't that scenario where the real liability and ethical dilemma lies? It should be worth pissing off one kid to ensure a level playing in a sport where severe physical talent disprepancies get people severely hurt. I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario. I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 5, 2019 22:30:03 GMT -6
I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario. I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale. Two things... #1 You weren't breaking the law or even cheating. #2 You still had to train hard. I think you are giving too much credit to the PED you took and not enough credit to the work you put in the weightroom.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 5, 2019 23:01:20 GMT -6
I'm not sure of the legality of the substance as far as the high school league at the time. It was banned by the Olympic commitee but not the NFL at the time. I do know that while I worked very hard in the weight room and probably earned that scholarship, it was night and day when I was off. They were banned in 2004 so I was technically in violation my senior year in track. My point is designer steroids are still readily available to kids over the counter for cheap, they are still effective and a similar scenario would definitely be illegal now.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 5, 2019 23:29:55 GMT -6
My point is designer steroids are still readily available to kids over the counter for cheap. Just not in the loop on this kind of stuff. Designer steriods are available over the counter?
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 5, 2019 23:59:58 GMT -6
My point is designer of steroids are still readily available to kids over the counter for cheap. Just not in the loop on this kind of stuff. Designer steriods are available over the counter? Yes, you can walk into any decent supplement shop and buy designer steroids. They aren't as effective as the androstenedione that I was taking back in the day. But they are pretty cheap and have an effect. Each particular molecule eventually gets banned, so the chemists change it a little bit and relaunch the new formula the next year. Kids are so saavy now though. If it was 17 year old me now and I was trying to make it like I was back then, I would just figure out where to buy test online for like $30 a bottle from overseas. I think there is this misconception on here that this stuff is super expensive. Yes a pro body builders stack is going to run some serious $ but a little bit of test goes a long way and it's not that expensive. A kid with an ok job hs job with no bills could afford it in my opinion.
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Post by pitt1980 on Jan 6, 2019 1:50:45 GMT -6
Just not in the loop on this kind of stuff. Designer steriods are available over the counter? Yes, you can walk into any decent supplement shop and buy designer steroids. They aren't as effective as the androstenedione that I was taking back in the day. But they are pretty cheap and have an effect. Each particular molecule eventually gets banned, so the chemists change it a little bit and relaunch the new formula the next year. Kids are so saavy now though. If it was 17 year old me now and I was trying to make it like I was back then, I would just figure out where to buy test online for like $30 a bottle from overseas. I think there is this misconception on here that this stuff is super expensive. Yes a pro body builders stack is going to run some serious $ but a little bit of test goes a long way and it's not that expensive. A kid with an ok job hs job with no bills could afford it in my opinion. Relative to 4 years of tuition, it’s all a drop in the bucket
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Post by pitt1980 on Jan 6, 2019 2:32:46 GMT -6
I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale. Two things... #1 You weren't breaking the law or even cheating. #2 You still had to train hard. I think you are giving too much credit to the PED you took and not enough credit to the work you put in the weightroom. One of the truly toxic aspects of steroid culture is the way the geared up kids turn into head-in-the-sand coaches’ go to examples of virtuous hard workers.
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 6, 2019 4:31:21 GMT -6
I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario. I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale. I think you may be the only guy that got results from andro. There were other things at that time that worked really well but andro wasn’t one of them.
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