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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2018 11:02:58 GMT -6
IMO, a smart HC will take over the defense if he has a smart, qualified coach to install and run the offense. In my experience, many coaches underestimate how difficult it can be to run a sound, effective defense. Especially if you're going to see a wide variety of offenses within your schedule. I've been both an OC and a DC and, IMO, installing and running a sound defense takes more forethought and practice time coordination than an offense does. Funny, I was a career DC but I feel the other way. Calling defense is somewhat easy. When in doubt call "Base". I agree with you; calling the defense was always easier for me. But, installing the defense and coordinating practice time was always more stressful for me. If one of the three levels of defense (DL, LBs, DBs) are wrong, everyone is wrong and that got my hackles up. When coordinating an offense, life was simpler. The OL does their job and we move the ball. The OL doesn't do their job and we don't. And, there were very few seasons where I wasn't the OL coach and could make sure we were solid.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 10, 2018 11:11:26 GMT -6
IMO, a smart HC will take over the defense if he has a smart, qualified coach to install and run the offense. In my experience, many coaches underestimate how difficult it can be to run a sound, effective defense. Especially if you're going to see a wide variety of offenses within your schedule. I've been both an OC and a DC and, IMO, installing and running a sound defense takes more forethought and practice time coordination than an offense does. Funny, I was a career DC but I feel the other way. Calling defense is somewhat easy. When in doubt call "Base". What happens when you are in your base and they come out in empty and then run a motion into quads. The base defense can get a little sketchy pretty quickly. I think both are equally tactical and take preparation and understanding. I think people tend to overlook that more when thinking about the defense. We had this discussion on the last staff I worked with. Hc: can’t such and such play defensive line? He’s a pretty good athlete. Me: well we have tried him but he wasn’t great at reacting to blocks or spilling the football. Hc: does that really matter if he just gets through and puts pressure on them. Me: yeah, a little bit it does. When he just runs himself out of the play, leaves us unsound in our run fits. Hc: well just tell him to beat the block and find the football Me: would you ever tell your qb to “just read the end” on power read with no other instruction. Hc: well it’s not that simple. Me: exactly
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2018 11:58:16 GMT -6
Funny, I was a career DC but I feel the other way. Calling defense is somewhat easy. When in doubt call "Base". What happens when you are in your base and they come out in empty and then run a motion into quads. The base defense can get a little sketchy pretty quickly. I think both are equally tactical and take preparation and understanding. I think people tend to overlook that more when thinking about the defense. We had this discussion on the last staff I worked with. Hc: can’t such and such play defensive line? He’s a pretty good athlete. Me: well we have tried him but he wasn’t great at reacting to blocks or spilling the football. Hc: does that really matter if he just gets through and puts pressure on them. Me: yeah, a little bit it does. When he just runs himself out of the play, leaves us unsound in our run fits. Hc: well just tell him to beat the block and find the football Me: would you ever tell your qb to “just read the end” on power read with no other instruction. Hc: well it’s not that simple. Me: exactly Good post. This is an issue that I've run into as well as a DC. I've run across my fair share of coaches over the years that feel that proper defensive football just means "being an athlete, flying around, and finding the ball". It's a great philosophy because you're never wrong as a coach; "we just don't have the kids".
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Post by CS on Oct 10, 2018 17:38:01 GMT -6
What happens when you are in your base and they come out in empty and then run a motion into quads. The base defense can get a little sketchy pretty quickly. I think both are equally tactical and take preparation and understanding. I think people tend to overlook that more when thinking about the defense. We had this discussion on the last staff I worked with. Hc: can’t such and such play defensive line? He’s a pretty good athlete. Me: well we have tried him but he wasn’t great at reacting to blocks or spilling the football. Hc: does that really matter if he just gets through and puts pressure on them. Me: yeah, a little bit it does. When he just runs himself out of the play, leaves us unsound in our run fits. Hc: well just tell him to beat the block and find the football Me: would you ever tell your qb to “just read the end” on power read with no other instruction. Hc: well it’s not that simple. Me: exactly Good post. This is an issue that I've run into as well as a DC. I've run across my fair share of coaches over the years that feel that proper defensive football just means "being an athlete, flying around, and finding the ball". It's a great philosophy because you're never wrong as a coach; "we just don't have the kids". I will take 11 guys that fly around and find the ball. Defense is so much harder than offense to coordinate but when you boil it down defense is about pursuit. Yeah you have to coordinate that pursuit but if you can get dudes flying to the ball you’re going to be good on d.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 10, 2018 17:45:23 GMT -6
Good post. This is an issue that I've run into as well as a DC. I've run across my fair share of coaches over the years that feel that proper defensive football just means "being an athlete, flying around, and finding the ball". It's a great philosophy because you're never wrong as a coach; "we just don't have the kids". I will take 11 guys that fly around and find the ball. Defense is so much harder than offense to coordinate but when you boil it down defense is about pursuit. Yeah you have to coordinate that pursuit but if you can get dudes flying to the ball you’re going to be good on d. That’s true but I would rather my safety understand where his run fit is and make the tackle for a two yard gain than just waiting to see where it’s going and running it down got a 8+ yard gain.
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Post by CS on Oct 11, 2018 3:31:41 GMT -6
I will take 11 guys that fly around and find the ball. Defense is so much harder than offense to coordinate but when you boil it down defense is about pursuit. Yeah you have to coordinate that pursuit but if you can get dudes flying to the ball you’re going to be good on d. That’s true but I would rather my safety understand where his run fit is and make the tackle for a two yard gain than just waiting to see where it’s going and running it down got a 8+ yard gain. I agree. My point wasn’t that run fits weren’t important. Just that if I had to choose 11 guys I would rather have 11 dudes that want to get to the ball and have to teach them the best way, than the guys who know exactly what to do but are straight up vag when they get there.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 11, 2018 6:53:39 GMT -6
Good post. This is an issue that I've run into as well as a DC. I've run across my fair share of coaches over the years that feel that proper defensive football just means "being an athlete, flying around, and finding the ball". It's a great philosophy because you're never wrong as a coach; "we just don't have the kids". I will take 11 guys that fly around and find the ball. Defense is so much harder than offense to coordinate but when you boil it down defense is about pursuit. Yeah you have to coordinate that pursuit but if you can get dudes flying to the ball you’re going to be good on d. We'll all take 11 guys that fly around and find the ball. And, we get to the point by teaching fundamentals such as proper pursuit angles. Unfortunately, most of the coaches I come across with this philosophy are also the ones that tell us that we don't need much defensive time at practice because "defense is easy when you've got the right guys in there." (another little catch-phrase I've heard too often).
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Post by Defcord on Oct 11, 2018 7:32:39 GMT -6
That’s true but I would rather my safety understand where his run fit is and make the tackle for a two yard gain than just waiting to see where it’s going and running it down got a 8+ yard gain. I agree. My point wasn’t that run fits weren’t important. Just that if I had to choose 11 guys I would rather have 11 dudes that want to get to the ball and have to teach them the best way, than the guys who know exactly what to do but are straight up vag when they get there. Gotta have the dudes that’s for sure. We agree here. Timidity is he biggest defensive killer in my opinion.
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Post by bird0660 on Oct 11, 2018 10:59:07 GMT -6
I am a head coach and have coached one side the last three years (year 1 DC, year 2 neither, year 3 OC), it depended solely on how I felt about a guy I could put in the coordinator spot. At the end of the day I am going to know each of the three game plans and have my stamp on them. What I will never do again? Have an OC and DC. Maybe its selfish but I made my bones with xs and os and that one year where I didnt call a play on my own team killed me.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 11, 2018 13:41:55 GMT -6
I am a head coach and have coached one side the last three years (year 1 DC, year 2 neither, year 3 OC), it depended solely on how I felt about a guy I could put in the coordinator spot. At the end of the day I am going to know each of the three game plans and have my stamp on them. What I will never do again? Have an OC and DC. Maybe its selfish but I made my bones with xs and os and that one year where I didnt call a play on my own team killed me. I think the HC. Should have islands in all phases. That doesn't necessarily mean the HC Should coordinate. But at the of the day its the HC who gets blasted in the newspaper, and parent create petitions to fire. This is reasonable. Ours doesn't coordinate. He definitely knows all aspects of the game. He rarely interjects on any call unless he vehemently disagrees with it. He let's his coaches coach. If I'm ever blessed enough to be a HC, I think I would like to call one side of the ball. Won't know til I'm there though. A guy I know, best DC in the state maybe got the HC job when the former guy retired. He's calling the O now and not the D that made his career and got him 3 rings. That one baffles me.
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Post by dubber on Oct 11, 2018 20:33:22 GMT -6
TAKE THE PERSONAL STUFF TO PM'S!!!!!
Our HC is the STC, and I think with all the big decisions the HC has to make around the kicking game (punt, fake punt, fg, fake fg, onside, kick deep, etc.) AND the overall management of field position being the HC's responsibility IMO, it is PERFECT.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 12, 2018 3:26:59 GMT -6
Gary Patterson is a D-1 HC and he appeared to be calling the defense last night.
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Post by coachtua on Oct 14, 2018 9:51:24 GMT -6
My first boss called the offense, but it was his defense. He had a defensive play caller for game days, but could override him on any call if he didn't like it.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 14, 2018 10:07:59 GMT -6
My first boss called the offense, but it was his defense. He had a defensive play caller for game days, but could override him on any call if he didn't like it. I have seen this before but it’s an off arrangement. If the head coach is actually running the defense and doing the game planning it makes sense. But if the head coach is hands off until things get hot then once to jump in and call the shots, I think it is bs. It’s his team but I don’t think you can have it both ways. Either it’s your defense or it’s not. In your instance it sounds like it’s the head coach’s defense and he fully invested so I see no issue with it.
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Post by coachtua on Oct 14, 2018 10:12:16 GMT -6
My first boss called the offense, but it was his defense. He had a defensive play caller for game days, but could override him on any call if he didn't like it. I have seen this before but it’s an off arrangement. If the head coach is actually running the defense and doing the game planning it makes sense. But if the head coach is hands off until things get hot then once to jump in and call the shots, I think it is bs. It’s his team but I don’t think you can have it both ways. Either it’s your defense or it’s not. In your instance it sounds like it’s the head coach’s defense and he fully invested so I see no issue with it. Yes. I would do the game plan offensively while he doing the game plan/scheme defensively. Then he would meet with the offense and OK/tweak the game plan before writing scouting report.
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Post by YoungDumbCoach on Oct 14, 2018 14:18:15 GMT -6
What in the hell are you talking about? Offensive coaches recruit...just like, um, every single college HC? And coaches don't play defense at all. That's just the players. how many of these gurus recruit at a top level? And have had playing really good defense? Jimbo Fisher Dabo Swinney Urban Meyer
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