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Post by deaux68 on Sept 22, 2007 10:21:49 GMT -6
Let me start with the list: -We had a guy run it up on us a couple of years ago. Left his first string in, was throwing the ball and running reverses in the 4th quarter. -Has never traded films with us. -Turns the heat on in the lockeroom when we play over there. -The year they ran it up on us some of his kids hammered a for sale sign on our field. Normally I would just blame it on the kids, but it's tough work sneaking a for sale sign on the bus.
They scored on a "hideaway" play to start the game and I think that just pissed us off more. We put up 57 points in the first half, including going for two so we could get 50 in the first half. Ran the ones back out there for one series to start the second half and they scored again. After that we had wholesale subs, but scored three more times on a two interception returns and the two's and three's even scored once.
Final score 84-19.
I was torn. I sat up in the booth and was ready to fight somebody when they were running it up on us a few years ago and I'll never forget that kid hammering the sign in the field. Then again, I almost felt bad for the young kids on that team.
Opinions?
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Post by brophy on Sept 22, 2007 10:42:13 GMT -6
whenever (in any circumstance) it becomes NOT about the kids, then something is wrong.
And that's all I have to say about that.
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Post by fbdoc on Sept 22, 2007 12:01:55 GMT -6
As a coach at a Christian school as well as someone who calls himself a Christian, I say never run the score up - take the higher road, and forgive others if they run it up against you. Having said that, there is one school in our district that given the opportunity, I would reluctantly hang 50 on, using our 2's and 3's, if we are ever given that opportunity. Their coach, and by teaching - their players, are extremely arrogant and actually embrace the fact that everyone knows they are recruiting/scholar-shipping (cheating!) sons-of-guns. God may forgive them, but I can't.
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50Murf
Sophomore Member
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Post by 50Murf on Sept 22, 2007 14:18:04 GMT -6
I agree with Brophy 100%. If you are in it for yourself - you might as well tell everyone you are Al Bundy, from Polk High School, and you scored 4 touchdowns in one game. I have had this happen to me (getting taken to the wood shed) and a few years later I had the chance to do it to the team that did it to me. Instead, I put in my second team and they got some real good work in, and we still won the game. I think that was the best way I could have handled my situation.
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Post by carookie on Sept 22, 2007 15:33:58 GMT -6
I know it sounds cheesey, but you don't need to lower yourselves to others. I try to carry that belief with me in all that I do, a couple years ago I was on a staff taking over a program where the previous coach would run up scores when they could (the sad thing was they were a > .500 program and got handled as often as they dished it out). I made a point to always remind the boys that its a new day at the school, and not only do we win, but we win with class. I truly believe that one of the best things about coaching is teaching kids how to be classy; how to remain above the fray when life tries to bring you down. I've been at schools where kids were just as likely to have a gun pulled on them as they were to be offered a college scholarship. There is no way I could expect them to walk away from the fights, the trash talking, the periferal BS; if I couldnt do it myself...okay rants over.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 22, 2007 16:39:25 GMT -6
Never run it up I had a team do that to me when I was coaching middle school and I yelled all the way I across the field. That being said I wouldn't run the score up. If you are playing a team that has done it to you before you send a great message IMO if you don't return the favor.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 22, 2007 16:54:10 GMT -6
How can it ever be "good" or "ok" to use your boys to humilate another group of boys to send a message to a coach?
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Post by CoachDaniel on Sept 22, 2007 16:57:50 GMT -6
I've never understood it. We've taken our share of beatings, a few have run it up, and we always say, "When we get the chance!" But in reality, when the game is decided win or lose, I want to get the kids who work as hard as anyone else all week in the game. You never know when you'll need them.
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Post by spencerxi on Sept 22, 2007 20:49:58 GMT -6
if the two and threes score, how is that bad? You also said that you you scored on interception returns also. Thats not running the score up! Now 50 in the first half is crazy but I don't think its that bad. Your players are doing what you teach them to do. As long as the play calling is conservative, you cant blame them for playing well and the other team not! Its more about your demeanor and how your kids react to the other team. If they act cocky then you got problems. Its got to be fun but act like you've been there before.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 22, 2007 22:05:28 GMT -6
Leaving the starters in for the first series of the 2nd Half and then making substitutions after that is NOT running up the score.
IMO, "running up the score" includes very specific actions by the opposition...leaving the first string in deep into the 2nd Half of a blowout, running trick plays or throwing deep passes in an attempt to score or pad stats when the game is clearly in hand...
If the other team's backup players are kicking my best player's butts and the other coaches are outcoaching me, that's not running up the score.
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Post by coachjaz on Sept 23, 2007 1:16:13 GMT -6
With all that in mind when you put the 2's and 3's in you have to let them play too. I mean you cant just go - dive - dive - dive punt with kids who work hard in practice but arent as talented as others to see more playing time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 6:49:11 GMT -6
Personally I would think it serves the same purpose to drive the ball to their 20. Take a knee 4 times and give it back to them. It proves a point, it's sort of kind in the score column, it's the higher road, and for the guy on the losing end of it, he knows exactly what's going on. It's called counting coup.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 23, 2007 9:51:52 GMT -6
irishblitzer...i would disagree 100%. Having been on the receiving end of many blow outs as a player (we were a very bad program) I would find those actions much more tasteless and humilating than simply playing the game out to its natural end.
Also, regarding "running up the score", just curious why everyone always mentions these two actions : (1) Throwing the ball, especially deep (2) trick plays. In H.S games, I would venture that 90%+ games where the score is able to be "run up" are situations where teams are just physically overwhelmed. If you are scoring 40 points in the first half running iso and power, and they keep going 3 and out...why is throwing the ball considered classless? They can't stop POWER AND ISO....and throwing the ball is considered less merciful than continuing to run the plays they can't stop?
In my worthless opinion, if the game is out of reach, just sub in those who don't play as much, and keep playing everything just like you normally would. Good for your team, AND actually good for the other team's kids too. Essentially you are allowing the overmatchd kids to play football in a situation where they aren't overmatched (or as overmatched).
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 23, 2007 10:31:10 GMT -6
LOL, great point- teams would be relieved if we were throwing We just do not do that near as well as we pound it out. One thing about throwing though it stops the clock (can anyway) and that prolongs things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 12:01:48 GMT -6
If you can turn your program around that quickly to where your 2s and 3s are able to INCREASE the lead, I would say that's revenge enough.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 23, 2007 13:46:33 GMT -6
Also, regarding "running up the score", just curious why everyone always mentions these two actions : (1) Throwing the ball, especially deep (2) trick plays. You forgot the key ingredient, which would be leaving the starters in deep into a game that has already been decided.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 23, 2007 14:59:52 GMT -6
wildcat--I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I think everyone would agree that leaving the starters in late into a game to try and score is "running up the score".
What I disagree with is running trick plays or throwing the ball..especially deep...being considered "running up the score" or classless.
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 23, 2007 15:48:31 GMT -6
1> play to win the game .... once that has been decided 2> play the backups in an effort to get them game-time reps in case they are needed down the road. run normal offense/defense ... once 2's have gotten adequate reps 3> play everyone else. run the most basic schemes (which, is probably all they can handle anyway)
if more scoring occurs during 'phases' 2 & 3 then that is merely a product of your depth continuing to be better than their starters or depth NOT really a product of you running it up. obviously, you are not in it to embarrass their players/coaches/fans/program. but, at the same time, you need to be fair to your kids by a) repping your backups with meaningful play calls and b) allowing the 2's & 3's to 'showcase' their skills as well by allowing them the chance to play.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 23, 2007 16:19:05 GMT -6
wildcat--I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I think everyone would agree that leaving the starters in late into a game to try and score is "running up the score". What I disagree with is running trick plays or throwing the ball..especially deep...being considered "running up the score" or classless. I agree with you. Heck, Friday night, we had our starters out of the game after halftime. We ran just about every play in our playbook (we are Wing T) with our backups. That included play-action passes, counters, and reverses. Weren't trying to run up the score or rub anyone's face in it...were simply trying to get our backups some quality reps.
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Post by 1ispread on Sept 23, 2007 18:16:38 GMT -6
If I get the score ran up on me the only one im mad at is me for letting it happen but with that said i would never run the score up on anyone else there is no place for it. Earlier this season, leading 24-0, we took a knee at the opponents 3 yd line with a minute left in the game and they called a timeout. I went ahead ran a play score then took a knee on the point after.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 23, 2007 19:47:14 GMT -6
A knee on the PAT? Why? Tthe clock does not run on a PAT.
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Post by phantom on Sept 23, 2007 20:26:28 GMT -6
wildcat--I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I think everyone would agree that leaving the starters in late into a game to try and score is "running up the score". What I disagree with is running trick plays or throwing the ball..especially deep...being considered "running up the score" or classless. About trick plays: a couple of years ago we were up big on a 3-3 blitzing team. We put in the 2nds and 3rds and ran the ball. They kept their first defense in and kept blitzing. We ran a reverse and scored. Were we supposed to keep sending the young kids, behind a young line, into a meatgrinder to spare their feelings?
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Post by carookie on Sept 23, 2007 20:33:10 GMT -6
Good running up the score story: Last year Playoff QTR. Final my alma mater (AM) is down by 7 to Team X, a team with a rep for running it up. X has the ball with less than half a minute to play on AM goalline (AM has no time outs left). Instead of taking a knee and moving on in the playoffs they score a TD go for two and miss, & are up 13 with about 20 seconds left. AM scores a TD on the ensuing drive with seven seconds left (down 6), gets the onside kick and hits about a 50 yard bomb to win the game... I missed it while coaching in my own playoff loss, but it was all over local TV. This was just last year and I'm sure y'all in SoCal heard about it. From down 13 with under 30 seconds to play to moving on in the playoffs. I don't know if this is the type of running up we think of. But Sort of vindication for those whove had it run up on them.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 23, 2007 20:47:26 GMT -6
wildcat--I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I think everyone would agree that leaving the starters in late into a game to try and score is "running up the score". What I disagree with is running trick plays or throwing the ball..especially deep...being considered "running up the score" or classless. About trick plays: a couple of years ago we were up big on a 3-3 blitzing team. We put in the 2nds and 3rds and ran the ball. They kept their first defense in and kept blitzing. We ran a reverse and scored. Were we supposed to keep sending the young kids, behind a young line, into a meatgrinder to spare their feelings? Been there, done that. Couple of years ago, we were spanking a team and had our back-ups in and were just trying to run the ball, keep the clock moving, and get the heck out of there. Other team leaves their starters in, packs 9 guys in the box, and starts blitzing like crazy and hooting and hollering after every play. Didn't think twice about calling a bootleg after that. Sophomore QB made a great fake, defense jumped all over the FB and TB, WR got behind the defense, and we scored an easy 60-yarder.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 23, 2007 21:42:40 GMT -6
phantom...no you were not. Like I said, I DON'T understand why RUNNING ANY PLAY with the 2's or 3's is considered "running up the score". Bad form from the opposing coach---u have to recognize what is going on and play accordingly
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Post by lochness on Sept 24, 2007 5:31:47 GMT -6
1> play to win the game .... once that has been decided 2> play the backups in an effort to get them game-time reps in case they are needed down the road. run normal offense/defense ... once 2's have gotten adequate reps 3> play everyone else. run the most basic schemes (which, is probably all they can handle anyway) if more scoring occurs during 'phases' 2 & 3 then that is merely a product of your depth continuing to be better than their starters or depth NOT really a product of you running it up. obviously, you are not in it to embarrass their players/coaches/fans/program. but, at the same time, you need to be fair to your kids by a) repping your backups with meaningful play calls and b) allowing the 2's & 3's to 'showcase' their skills as well by allowing them the chance to play. That is exactly the philosophy that we have typically employed, to a "tee." We are lucky that, without anything having been written or spoken, if Team A puts in their substitutes in a lop-sided game, then Team B will match your manuver, usually on the very next play (or, at least at the beginning of the very next series depending on the circumstances). I know that if we are clearly blown-out and overmatched, and our opponent substitutes, we substitute on the very next play. We will even call a timeout to make sure it happens smoothly and that the young kids are ready to go. We do the same if we are the ones in the lead. As for throwing deep when the score is up and running trick plays, I'm not sure if I would personally ever do that, even with my 3's and 4's against a team we are blowing out. I guess it's hard for you to NOT do that if that is your base offense (which would be unusual, but whatever), but it's not something I would do. I am going to run my base package and formations, and call plays to gain first downs. We were winning 35-0 against the (at the time) #1 ranked team in the state. We were 3-6, so we were not an exceptional team. The game was down to about a minute-and-a-half and we had our 3rd string QB in, and a mix of 2nd and 3rd string players. We were about 3rd and 15 because of a couple of false-start penalties. I called our base playaction pass (because, like I said, we are still calling plays to get 1st downs). Well, our noodle-arm QB drops the ball right on top of our 5'6" WR on a corner route, and he takes it the rest of the way for a TD (against the opponent's first string). I felt HORRIBLE and EMBARASSED and I was absolutely mortified. I went directly to the other team's HC and he laughed and told me not to worry about it and that that "freaking kid didn't cover anyone all day anyway!" I was glad he said that, because we always had a good relationship with that staff, but I'll never forget how bad I felt. That's all I needed to know about what's "right" and what's "wrong" in my mind. Even though the other coach was fine with it, I personally was not. I know I didn't do a sh*tbum thing, because I had my back-ups in and he still had his one's in, and because we were throwing a simple (like, installed on the first day of practice kind of simple) playaction pass on 3rd and 15, but it just didn't sit well with me. Now, conversely, we played a team that had a great RB. He had a chance for 2,000 yard season and a school rushing record against us. Well, they ripped us. It was 38-6 at halftime. We started subbing with about 2 min left in the 3rd. It was clear that we were subbing. They left their kids in for 2 more series, and during that time, they left their stud back in so he could get his 2,000 yard season. They ended up beating us 53-6. They onside kicked, went for 2, ran halfback option passes with their stud RB, and behaved like total {censored} during the second half. They even took a sledgehammer out to our midfield emblem after the game and pounded on it. I thought that was absolutely classess and I wanted to go nuts and beat the fat bastid into a lifeless ball of meat. Even worse, we beat them two years before 28-6, and we kneeled the ball out with our third team offense with the clock running out, when we clearly could have scored with what was our 3rd team. The whole thing is definitely a grey area, in terms of what's "running it up" and what is not. I guess it's really about what's best for the kids in each program.
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Post by coachcalande on Sept 24, 2007 6:09:02 GMT -6
my personal thought is to keep it about the kids. take care of your own team and dont worry about what the other guy is doing. I have to worry about what we do, not what they do. Just my two cents. when i have played teams where the coaching staff was classless in the past i have been guilty of worrying about them...but sooner or later you realize you cant coach both teams.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2007 6:15:25 GMT -6
So let me ask the flip side of it. What is a guy supposed to do on defense when he's ahead 42-0 and has the subs in? I'm not out to get anyone hurt or make it worse, but if my #3 Defense is in and the opposing starters are in and still trying to pass the ball a ton and really move it downfield against my undermatched kids, I'm not going to make them sit in the same coverage every play and let them be out there helpless either. Sure, our #3s are going to get to be on the winning team, but I'm not going to let them be cannon fodder for a team that is now ticked off because they're down by 42.
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Post by coachcalande on Sept 24, 2007 6:17:59 GMT -6
put your subs in and play your base defense. those kids deserve to play. again, worry about your own team. most of this type of thing could be avoided if coaches would meet before the game and just agree "coach, best of luck, first one to a hundred wins okay?"...no hard feelings on either side. I think the kids are less effected by it than the coaches egos personally.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 24, 2007 6:25:40 GMT -6
The more important thing to discuss in this situation is that opposing coach. He is not teaching his kids good sportsmanship, along with who knows what else he is or is not doing.
Someone inside the his school that cares needs to know...maybe someone on the school board...parents, something.
Either way, don't add fuel to the fire. Remember, the kids don't remember the Ws and Ls as much as they remember their teammates and coaches.
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