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Post by diekmannb on May 15, 2017 12:59:42 GMT -6
Considering going no full padded practices after week one. Shells and nothing to the ground. Thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
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Post by BrendanQB on May 15, 2017 15:51:13 GMT -6
I Don't like this. Will you be healthier throughout the season? Definitely. Will you be a physical team that tackles well? Probably not.
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Post by coachddwebb on May 15, 2017 16:16:31 GMT -6
Will your line be live? We go shells and volleyball knee pads and girdles and we have at one day of full pads.
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Post by fantom on May 15, 2017 17:06:48 GMT -6
I wouldn't want unpadded practices. IMO, the players will be wearing pads in the game so I think that they need to get used to playing with them. Secondly, I don't see how you can coach the linemen and linebackers without pads.
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Post by blb on May 15, 2017 17:39:28 GMT -6
I wouldn't want unpadded practices. IMO, the players will be wearing pads in the game so I think that they need to get used to playing with them. Secondly, I don't see how you can coach the linemen and linebackers without pads.
As fantom intimates - You can't learn how to play Football without playing Football.
Doesn't mean you have to wear full pads and hit full speed at every practice, in every drill.
But you better do it enough to teach kids how to protect themselves-absorb blows, block other human beings who are trying to hit them, play at game speed when pads are being worn, or you're going to have trouble.
Unless you're in a league that plays 7-on-7 totally.
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Post by Party@QB on May 15, 2017 21:20:41 GMT -6
I agree with the above post.
BUT... I did watch a coach go zero full padded practices after 2-a-days and they won the first state championship at that school in over 20 years.
The next year zero wins...
Do I have the entire story or all the answers... no. But, it seems like the kids he came in and took the pads off of them were already trained up and chomping at the bit to hit and hurt people, so the starters didn't need much contact during the week and they brutally hit people on Fridays.
The problem seemed to be the younger guys, who weren't getting action on Friday nights, they had one smooth ride. No harder practice, no hard games and man this was the life... Until it was their turn to be starters.
Or maybe the team just fell off that much after winning state
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Post by fkaboneyard on May 16, 2017 10:16:58 GMT -6
I just left a program where we were extremely thin on players - literally, one injury could have decimated our season - so we only had full team contact one day a week. Kids were in full regalia Monday through Wednesday and the lineman hit full speed in drills but in team practice we always used shields. IMO the lack of contact negatively effected the linebackers and running backs. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by wolverine55 on May 16, 2017 10:34:39 GMT -6
I think you can do it, but it would have to be with a special group that has proven they are physical. One year at my first coaching job, we did go with a regular full-padded practice on Tuesday of game week, but then half pads with very little contact on the Wednesday. But again, this was a very physical group so we were basically trying to save them from each other and stay as healthy as possible.
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Post by coachbdud on May 16, 2017 10:41:06 GMT -6
We have gone less and less contact over the last couple years
when i go INDY we put work in at OL we are physical without trying to murder each other
We go "thud" in practice on O for maybe 10 mins a day... max of 2 days per week
the last 2 years have been the most physical we have been in decades here.
Physicality comes from the weight room, and individual work IMO
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Post by fantom on May 16, 2017 10:50:58 GMT -6
I just left a program where we were extremely thin on players - literally, one injury could have decimated our season - so we only had full team contact one day a week. Kids were in full regalia Monday through Wednesday and the lineman hit full speed in drills but in team practice we always used shields. IMO the lack of contact negatively effected the linebackers and running backs. Your mileage may vary. How do you practice defense using shields?
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Post by **** on May 16, 2017 10:58:03 GMT -6
Only if you are thin on numbers, and I mean extremely thin.
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Post by fkaboneyard on May 16, 2017 12:05:30 GMT -6
I just left a program where we were extremely thin on players - literally, one injury could have decimated our season - so we only had full team contact one day a week. Kids were in full regalia Monday through Wednesday and the lineman hit full speed in drills but in team practice we always used shields. IMO the lack of contact negatively effected the linebackers and running backs. Your mileage may vary. How do you practice defense using shields? Badly. The lineman and linebackers ran around lugging shields, when they were in position to make a tackle they'd just bump the ball carrier with the shield. It seemed to help with alignment and assignment but little else. In fact, it seemed to make our tackling worse because in the games guys would just stick their arms out instead of running through a ball carrier.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 16, 2017 12:47:00 GMT -6
Contact to the ground can be done in small intervals and in safe circumstances. These teams had 17-35 players grades 8-12. Probably 13-18 that played in a game.
Defense Day (3:45-5:15 but KG isn't included here) Pursuit (no contact) Tackling Circuit (beg is minimal contact, middle is med, end is live for 2 reps each) Form Rec (no contact)
Indy drills can be split re contact too. When I coached LB'ers we did: stance/step/read (no contact) Find the ball (no contact) Block destruction (bags/shields for contact) ABC Drill (rip, fill, fit... so some contact) or XYZ Drill (rip, avoid, fit... some contact) Open field tackling (full contact, quick whistle) or hawk & roll drill (bag contact) W-Drill or Line Drill for pass drops (no contact) Play rec (thud on shield for FB/HB, RB/QB is quick whistle, OL dummies have shields)
Now we can go pass skel w/ DBs while DL does 1on1's (whiz) Inside run w/ DL while DB's do 1on1's (thud, quick whistle)
Team D vs Scout O (Live) very quick period. We're putting the pieces of the puzzle together. 8-10 min 1st D (script the scout book) and 4-5 min 2nd D (smaller script of key forms/plays)
Team sprints for school pride. (spell out bulldogs with little 10 yard sprints so no contact)
We will wear uppers + girdle + VB knee pads/shorts every day.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Jun 29, 2017 21:37:49 GMT -6
I would say that in general I would be against this, but the big thing is to know your team. For instance, I was on a team when I was in high school that didn't do a lot of hitting in practice after the first few days. Still wore full pads but just did things to a wrap, etc. However, 99% of guys on that team were hitters and if you put them in a situation where they could go full speed and smack into their best friend, there was going to be a train wreck and who knows how it would turn out. Just that type of team. Coaches then kept us from hitting because they figured they'd save on unnecessary injuries and we'd be a bit blood thirsty come Friday haha.
Since I've started coaching, I've seen some like this, and also teams that just weren't sure about collisions. Those types of teams, I think, need more full contact stuff because it's the only way to teach them that any collision is never as bad as they make it up to be in their own minds. Right now, we've got some linebackers that I think will be a lot better once we are able to go full contact and take on some lead blockers rather than just "meeting" the blocker because they might get dinged a little bit but they'll figure out that it's not so bad.
Maybe I'm not keeping up with the times, but I just think there's certain areas of football that are violent when done correctly and you have to get used to them or else you'll be afraid of them. I mean you don't want injuries, but for teams that are susceptible to the bad habits of avoiding contact, the practices with plenty of contact are worth the risk.
Plus, it's been my experience that the best way to put yourself in a position to get hurt is to be going half speed or be too hesitant and tensed up when something is about to happen.
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Post by macdiiddy on Jun 30, 2017 6:20:59 GMT -6
I think this is the time where kids need to hone/learn how to hit and tackle. While the NCAA and the NFL do less and less hitting in practice, there comes a time where the kids need to actually learn how to properly and safely engage a tackle or a block.
The crusade to eliminate concussions are, IMO, doing more harm then good. By trying to fit the NCAA or NFL model to high school teams. At some point these kids will have to learn how to hit. If everything could be done with fits and just telling them how to do it, there would be no need to even leave the field house.
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 30, 2017 7:09:31 GMT -6
I consider 2 types of conditioning. Physical movement conditioning that everyone does and Collision conditioning. They will be having contact on most plays of a game so I feel you need to condition for that. We probably have more contact then most teams, though. Lots of timed, high number play reps.
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Post by coachsticks on Jun 30, 2017 7:13:15 GMT -6
IMO, with the advent of Hawk tackling, you can run an effective practice using only bags/sleds.
We made this shift defensively two years ago and haven't looked back since.
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 30, 2017 8:01:51 GMT -6
There is a point in the season when we might only go full pads once a week. But it needs to be a special team who already understands how to play beat your ass into the ground football.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 30, 2017 8:26:14 GMT -6
Will your line be live? We go shells and volleyball knee pads and girdles and we have at one day of full pads. Shells (Helmet and shoulder pads) with volleyball knee pads, and girdles (presumably with hip/tail pad and maybe thigh pad) Isn't that full pads (with the exception of maybe thigh pads?) Just not wearing football pants? Am I missing something?
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Post by chi5hi on Jun 30, 2017 9:23:46 GMT -6
FWIW...You play like you practice playing. So, For me the question is "How do you want to play"?
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tbel57
Freshmen Member
Posts: 96
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Post by tbel57 on Jun 30, 2017 9:44:32 GMT -6
I consider 2 types of conditioning. Physical movement conditioning that everyone does and Collision conditioning. They will be having contact on most plays of a game so I feel you need to condition for that. We probably have more contact then most teams, though. Lots of timed, high number play reps. I have been saying the collision conditioning thing for years. I wish somebody would study that. I feel from the time kids these days are babies, we protect them from any type of collision, i.e., helmets for riding a bike. I never wore one, and yes I had my share of bike accidents. We played back yard tackle football, we had some injuries from that, but I think it was all part of that conditioning. Now, kids sit in front of a video game and don't play outside to condition themselves to collisions. Equipment now is better than it has ever been, so in my opinion, I don't feel it can be the problem. Don't crucify me for my opinion please. Just an aspect of the concussion epidemic I think has been overlooked.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jun 30, 2017 9:53:33 GMT -6
Most of our practices after week 2 are in uppers, with "volleyball" knee pads. Rarely take to the ground after week 2. Mostly Thud, and on game day we tackle just fine. I don't see the point in beating the crap out of your kids. Plus the fact is this isn't 1980, these kids don't like getting crap kicked out of them everyday. This is the Madden generation. Bitch all you want about "in my day....blah,blah" It's not your day. In my day we had 2 water breaks, I think we can all agree that was a bad idea...kids have changed, so we need to change with them....
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 30, 2017 10:00:32 GMT -6
Most of our practices after week 2 are in uppers, with "volleyball" knee pads. Rarely take to the ground after week 2. Mostly Thud, and on game day we tackle just fine. I don't see the point in beating the crap out of your kids. Plus the fact is this isn't 1980, these kids don't like getting crap kicked out of them everyday. This is the Madden generation. Bitch all you want about "in my day....blah,blah" It's not your day. In my day we had 2 water breaks, I think we can all agree that was a bad idea...kids have changed, so we need to change with them.... I don't disagree with what is said here, but my question is (not just you, but to everyone in the thread) if equipment is designed to protect, then why isn't one wearing it? Why are the level and intensity of contact, and the amount of equipment worn linked?
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jun 30, 2017 10:03:29 GMT -6
I guess if you don't have all your pads on, less chance a kid takes his stupid pill and goes all out when the drill is thud? Only thing we don't wear is the girdle, and pants. We go shorts and volley ball style knee pads.
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Post by bluboy on Jun 30, 2017 10:37:53 GMT -6
We are in full pads only one day a week (Tuesday). Monday, Wednesday, and Friday we are in uppers (helmet, shoulder pads, and girdles with shorts). The only time we EVER take anyone to the ground is a 5-play best on best drill after warm-up on Tuesday. We believe that we can accomplish everything we need without people going to the ground. We want our kids ready to go on Friday night, not banged up on Tuesday afternoon. IMO, the coaches are the key. They have to stay on kids so that no one goes to the ground or body slams someone.
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 30, 2017 14:14:36 GMT -6
We go full pads even on the day before games. About 25 years ago we went uppers on that day and a kid got a knee to the front of his thigh and got a deep contusion that kept him out 2 weeks. I've had full pads on since every day except Monday (weights and film day) and even then we put them on if we have to run through some new stuff. We definitely do Thud alot in practice but that just means we don't take them to the ground. It's still full speed and the line is always full go. Just what we do because these kids are never like some mentioned , that they already know how to hit so well.
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Post by s73 on Jun 30, 2017 14:57:15 GMT -6
Considering going no full padded practices after week one. Shells and nothing to the ground. Thoughts or experiences? Thanks! Take this for what it's worth but we usually do this after week 3. Why? really 2 reasons. First, FB is a grind like no other & it seems to be a bone we throw the kids that they really appreciate. Less they have to put on, take off and a bit cooler. Second, I feel they tend to stay healthier b/c we don't want them going to the ground since we a re a small school and usual struggle with numbers. Is it good or bad in terms of performance? I have not seen any correlation. In the last 6 years we've had 3 teams make the play offs & 3 teams not. I felt that 1 team over achieved in that time and the rest ended up about like we thought. All I know is it's something small that SEEMS to boost morale & doesn't SEEM to hurt our success so to me it's a small & easy gift. JMO.
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Post by dblwngr on Jun 30, 2017 15:34:39 GMT -6
Considering going no full padded practices after week one. Shells and nothing to the ground. Thoughts or experiences? Thanks! Take this for what it's worth but we usually do this after week 3. Why? really 2 reasons. First, FB is a grind like no other & it seems to be a bone we throw the kids that they really appreciate. Less they have to put on, take off and a bit cooler. Second, I feel they tend to stay healthier b/c we don't want them going to the ground since we a re a small school and usual struggle with numbers. Is it good or bad in terms of performance? I have not seen any correlation. In the last 6 years we've had 3 teams make the play offs & 3 teams not. I felt that 1 team over achieved in that time and the rest ended up about like we thought. All I know is it's something small that SEEMS to boost morale & doesn't SEEM to hurt our success so to me it's a small & easy gift. JMO. There may be something to be said about this. Times are different and kids, even good kids are quick to just not play for just about any reason you could think of. I think a lot of it has to do with burn out do to every one of there coaches from all sports wanting them to commit to summer activities, workouts, camps, etc. But that's a whole other thread. We've done a few small things that have really helped our moral and numbers as of late #1 No more doubles or two a days. We just have one somewhat long practice and the kids practice hard knowing this. If we cant get our stuff in during one practice that's longer than the average after school practice, then that's on us as coaches and we need to evaluate our time management. #1 We condition before practice not after. Gone are the day of sand bagging during practice so there's something left in the tank for conditioning at the end of practice. Now there are no excuses.
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Post by utchuckd on Jul 1, 2017 6:24:09 GMT -6
We go full pads every day in girdles and volleyball knee pads. We also schedule as much full contact as we're allowed to. They're teenage football players, in general they love going out and running into each other. We'll do a couple of intense tackling or board type drills each week because the ones that love the game love testing themselves against each other in that stuff.
Every couple of weeks we also schedule a big live team period where we just let them scrimmage each other, just our offense against our defense and let them go play the game. Their chances to just play are limited anyway to a few games a year. They spend the majority of the off season doing things to get ready to play instead of actually playing the game, and the majority of practice is drill or scheme work, so we try to give them a chance to get out and have fun. It gives the ballers a chance to ball out, the newer guys get some good reps, and the hot dog eaters get to stand in the back and squirt each other with the water bottles and not get in anybody's way.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 1, 2017 8:17:29 GMT -6
While I understand the thought processes given here by those supporting less than a full padded practice, I don't understand the logic. klaby says So I have to ask, is the objective here to have the kids practice in a more timid manner? Don't wear hip/tail/thigh pads so that the players practice slower? I guess I don't see the connection between what you wear, and how you practice. Why does wearing full gear seem to mean players must be taken to the ground? Seems much more logical to me that if the desired result is a healthier team, the best way to achieve that would be to wear protective gear and teach kids how to properly practice at your desired tempo/desired finishing method (take down, thud, tag, etc). Why risk increased chances banging knees, hip pointers, thigh contusions, bruised tailbones etc? s73 mentions that practicing in uppers only is "throwing the kids a bone" because for whatever reason, it is easier on the kids. Or maybe more accurately the kids perceive it to be easier. Doesn't the logic then follow that you are setting up the game situation to be more difficult? While temperature might be one factor, I do believe another is having to move your body with the added burden of the padding. Is introducing that on game night a best practice?
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