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Post by bigmoot on Mar 3, 2017 7:47:48 GMT -6
well it is open to all athletes so we end up with a lot of kids in there that took it because they thought it would be an easy A and are outraged by the fact that they 1. have to lift. and 2. actually have to follow a program. kids got in the class who were not supposed to be able to take the class. Monday one kid got through two lifts in an hour. Also...start sets, stations, rotations on a whistle. Don't give them time to slack off.
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Post by fantom on Mar 3, 2017 8:15:47 GMT -6
But in the OP you said this: >>> I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. <<< Now, do you really think that it would hurt the program if you didn't make the kids (and Mom or Dad) get out of bed at 5 AM to do line drills and play dodgeball on March 2nd? We are a 100% walking district. Mommy and daddy do not need to wake up at 5:00 because it takes the kids 5 minutes to walk. We start at 6:30, if it takes you 90 minutes to get ready, wear less makeup But what are you accomplishing with these morning sessions? You said that you need Am and PM workouts to make your athletes competitive but then said that your AM workouts aren't that hard. Then why do them? I can't believe that the workout that you described-twenty minutes of line drills (Clarify for me please. by "line drills" do you mean agility-type drills or drills for linemen?) and some dodge ball- is materially helping your team in any way.
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Post by blb on Mar 3, 2017 8:26:38 GMT -6
Again, I ask. Why are we having this thread? Apparently you only lost 4-6 pothead losers. You have an excuse for every piece of advice we have given. What do you want out of this thread?
From the increasingly defensive tenor of his replies - I surmise the OP is looking for affirmation, not information.
If I'm wrong he can feel free to correct me.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 3, 2017 8:52:11 GMT -6
They don't let kids drop here but at one of my old schools they did. Football had to take weight training but civilians could take the class too. The first timers thought it would be bench press and curl fest upon arrival. I let them know that we would be learning the olympic lifts, would only be using a bar for about a month, and wouldnt bench for at least two. Then we would end the first workout with a crossfit style conditioning circuit. After 3 days, we would then start the real program. ha.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 3, 2017 9:41:39 GMT -6
Again, I ask. Why are we having this thread? Apparently you only lost 4-6 pothead losers. You have an excuse for every piece of advice we have given. What do you want out of this thread?
From the increasingly defensive tenor of his replies - I surmise the OP is looking for affirmation, not information.
If I'm wrong he can feel free to correct me.
Due to the limitation in our facilities we can not do any type of footwork/agility work after school. It is impossible. No other program has a true off season workout of any kids Our school weight room is also a community center that has very resources that limits the amount of time we can spend in the area. My post was made to ask about the coaching philosophy of others. Would you rather coach 50 players that do not do anything or 25 that work hard? Do you lower expectations to increase numbers? Hope that clarifies
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Post by blb on Mar 3, 2017 9:58:05 GMT -6
My post was made to ask about the coaching philosophy of others. Would you rather coach 50 players that do not do anything or 25 that work hard? Do you lower expectations to increase numbers? Hope that clarifies
25 that work hard
No, I wouldn't lower expectations to increase numbers.
That said - I didn't cut kids for not showing up in the Off-Season (it's against our state rules anyway), nor did so much in the Off-Season they didn't show up when practice starts.
Once practice started my expectations were pretty damn high.
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Post by fantom on Mar 3, 2017 10:00:32 GMT -6
From the increasingly defensive tenor of his replies - I surmise the OP is looking for affirmation, not information.
If I'm wrong he can feel free to correct me.
Due to the limitation in our facilities we can not do any type of footwork/agility work after school. It is impossible. No other program has a true off season workout of any kids Our school weight room is also a community center that has very resources that limits the amount of time we can spend in the area. My post was made to ask about the coaching philosophy of others. Would you rather coach 50 players that do not do anything or 25 that work hard? Do you lower expectations to increase numbers? Hope that clarifies If those are the only two choices I doubt that anybody would take the 50 slackers. That's not the real world, though.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 3, 2017 10:00:34 GMT -6
Due to the limitation in our facilities we can not do any type of footwork/agility work after school. It is impossible. No other program has a true off season workout of any kids Our school weight room is also a community center that has very resources that limits the amount of time we can spend in the area. But that doesn't answer the question...does expecting/forcing/wanting the kids to get up before dawn to do an "easy" workout like you said of 20 minutes of drills and a dodgeball game in March win you a ball game in Mid October? I think a reasonable argument could be made that the players would actually benefit more from the added sleep, because I think we are all pretty sure your players aren't all going to sleep at 9pm. Question, when do the kids eat breakfast? I think when put into those extremes...50 players not doing anything or 25 that work hard, 100% will chose the latter. But that is not a very real scenario is it? A better question would be : Would you rather coach 25 players that work hard, or 50 players where 20-25 work hard, another 15 give some effort but they could give more, 5 only do whats convenient for them, and 5 could care less. Because that is a more real scenario. In that light, are you asking "Do you now demand less of the 20-25 so that those next 15 fit in on the same tier?" My reply to that would be that you should be doing what you deem necessary, and try to encourage everyone to meet those standards.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 3, 2017 10:29:00 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes. It's rough. We have classes- not exclusive to football. Only juniors and seniors can take them, and there are only 3 classes of 35 kids. I have maybe 15 total football players in my classes. EVERYTHING team-wise is done after school.
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Post by carookie on Mar 3, 2017 11:05:28 GMT -6
From the increasingly defensive tenor of his replies - I surmise the OP is looking for affirmation, not information.
If I'm wrong he can feel free to correct me.
My post was made to ask about the coaching philosophy of others. Would you rather coach 50 players that do not do anything or 25 that work hard?Do you lower expectations to increase numbers? Hope that clarifies But you wouldn't be taking 50 slackers (players that do not do anything), you'd still have the 25 hard working kids and then add on the 25 kids who aren't as hard working. Those original 25 would still be hard working types and still would "do stuff", the difference is you are adding 25 extra bag holders. Now, the question is how much worse off are those 25 hard workers going to become by you lowering required workout times? You answer that and I think you get closer to finding the answer to this question.
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Post by s73 on Mar 4, 2017 10:35:15 GMT -6
If I stop all morning sessions, what should then do for the students that want to do more? Just say that isn't an option? I mean this with all due respect, I really do. When did kids become incapable of doing for themselves? We run weights 4x /week and get after it pretty hard. We always finish with a team event like tug o' war or what have you. But...I have some really dedicated kids who decide to go and take speed and agility classes at a nearby facility in addition to what we already do. I don't think it's necessary as we work them pretty hard and hit a lot of agility components in the summer AND really encourage TRACK for that component as well. But....it brings me back to my original point. Kids are capable of doing things for themselves as well and I even think it's good for some of them to take that responsibility instead of expecting their coaches to constantly spoon feed them everything. As much as I get sick of parents b!tching about coaches, SOME coaches have partially set up that situation by controlling everything. You control EVERYTHING, then in the mind of SOME you become responsible for everything. JMO.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 11:43:36 GMT -6
If I stop all morning sessions, what should then do for the students that want to do more? Just say that isn't an option? I mean this with all due respect, I really do. When did kids become incapable of doing for themselves? We run weights 4x /week and get after it pretty hard. We always finish with a team event like tug o' war or what have you. But...I have some really dedicated kids who decide to go and take speed and agility classes at a nearby facility in addition to what we already do. I don't think it's necessary as we work them pretty hard and hit a lot of agility components in the summer AND really encourage TRACK for that component as well. But....it brings me back to my original point. Kids are capable of doing things for themselves as well and I even think it's good for some of them to take that responsibility instead of expecting their coaches to constantly spoon feed them everything. As much as I get sick of parents b!tching about coaches, SOME coaches have partially set up that situation by controlling everything. You control EVERYTHING, then in the mind of SOME you become responsible for everything. JMO. I think there's a selection of kids that are going to do more than is required, even if the required is impossible, because they have a motor in them. Then there's a selection of kids that will not make it over the bar no matter how low you set it because, for whatever reason, they just don't have it. And the rest fall in between. Scripting every detail of a workout program helps some kids, no question. In a way I think it hurts a few because it doesn't really give them any ownership in making themselves better. My oldest son has an internal motor that nothing is going to get in his way, no matter what and he's going to be the best he can be. He was a difference maker on varsity as a freshman, did everything the HC asked him to do and more. Throughout the year I walk by his room in the evenings and he's doing some kind of exercise while he studies - chinups, pushups, situps, while he recites French or planks while he reads, whatever. He's been like that since he could pick up a football. My other son will be a freshman next year and it's really not that important to him. He's a kid that's going to have to be spoon fed.
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Post by coachdawhip on Mar 4, 2017 12:17:23 GMT -6
Yes we are the only team in our league without a "football tech class". There is one section of weight lifting that is ran like a cross fit cardio class I think thats your problem. Why isn't someone teaching weight training who is knowledgeable? Does he coach football? Coach you know it's many schools without football players in weight training. I would know....
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Post by coachdawhip on Mar 4, 2017 12:20:17 GMT -6
But answer your question how much is enough?
Here we require our kids to be here for morning workouts they must make 75% to play spring football.
HOWEVER, the receive bonuses for playing a second sport.
This week our attendance was 88, 64, 72, 78. This is only 10-12 grades. Last year we averaged 51. and we had a down season lost in the 1st round of the playoffs.
So know you can require high expectations and still have a good turnout.
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Post by s73 on Mar 4, 2017 13:56:31 GMT -6
But answer your question how much is enough? Here we require our kids to be here for morning workouts they must make 75% to play spring football. HOWEVER, the receive bonuses for playing a second sport. This week our attendance was 88, 64, 72, 78. This is only 10-12 grades. Last year we averaged 51. and we had a down season lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. So know you can require high expectations and still have a good turnout. Coach, I completely agree with you. I will only speak for myself when I say that my intention in this thread is to communicate that their is a difference between HIGH expectations and UNREASONABLE expectations. IMO, asking kids to do something before AND after school several months before their season even starts, is flirting with the unreasonable IMO. I think you can get a TON done by only meeting 3-4 x per week. I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities. Pretty sure a lot of the guys on this board (myself included) would start to complain, rebel, hit up the union rep, etc in a short period of time. On the other hand, if the principal asks for some REASONABLE volunteer time I'm sure most buildings would have several people who are happy to do so. I feel that MOST FB coaches can do a better job of putting themselves in a kids shoes from time to time. JMO.
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Post by coachdawhip on Mar 4, 2017 14:00:44 GMT -6
But answer your question how much is enough? Here we require our kids to be here for morning workouts they must make 75% to play spring football. HOWEVER, the receive bonuses for playing a second sport. This week our attendance was 88, 64, 72, 78. This is only 10-12 grades. Last year we averaged 51. and we had a down season lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. So know you can require high expectations and still have a good turnout. Coach, I completely agree with you. I will only speak for myself when I say that my intention in this thread is to communicate that their is a difference between HIGH expectations and UNREASONABLE expectations. IMO, asking kids to do something before AND after school several months before their season even starts, is flirting with the unreasonable IMO. I think you can get a TON done by only meeting 3-4 x per week. I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities. Pretty sure a lot of the guys on this board (myself included) would start to complain, rebel, hit up the union rep, etc in a short period of time. On the other hand, if the principal asks for some REASONABLE volunteer time I'm sure most buildings would have several people who are happy to do so. I feel that MOST FB coaches can do a better job of putting themselves in a kids shoes from time to time. JMO. I agree and I should mention that our track team won state last year so kids want to run track, they are the ones with the rings not us.
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Post by bluboy on Mar 4, 2017 14:22:04 GMT -6
"...I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities." I agree 100%.
Sometimes coaches, including me, forget that we care more about this game than some of our players do and that our players are high school kids.; not college or pro players. I'll bet very few of any of our players are talking football at this time of year, let alone the X's and O's of the game. They need time to be kids. Yea, they also have to train for the game, but IMHO there is a way to get it done without "consuming thier life" during the off season.
BTW, we do not have a weight class at my school, and we are a very competitive program in our area.
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Post by s73 on Mar 4, 2017 14:38:00 GMT -6
"...I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities." I agree 100%. Sometimes coaches, including me, forget that we care more about this game than some of our players do and that our players are high school kids.; not college or pro players. I'll bet very few of any of our players are talking football at this time of year, let alone the X's and O's of the game. They need time to be kids. Yea, they also have to train for the game, but IMHO there is a way to get it done without "consuming thier life" during the off season. BTW, we do not have a weight class at my school, and we are a very competitive program in our area. To piggy back off of this coach I would also add that no matter how much you work you ain't gonna be successful if you can't put kids own the field. So running off kids with crazy expectations may in the short term not hurt but always catches up with a program in the long run IMO. Not to mention the OP posed the question about 25 studs or 50 turds. I always wonder, how I am doing with that kid I don't even know about? That kid that maybe didn't come out as a frosh for whatever reason but has some ability and has thought about it. How are my current players communicating to those types of kids what our FB program is like? I think it's our advantage to try and think about how our players will communicate their experiences of playing football for us to the rest of the student body. If that message is predominantly positive I think numbers will naturally improve or at least stay consistent. If it's predominantly negative, well......
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Mar 4, 2017 15:35:25 GMT -6
I run the strength program for our team before school. We start at 7:00 and go until 8:15. Class starts at 8:35. We go Monday, Wednesday, Friday year round including summer. We used to have 2.5 ball busters after school 5 days a week. Kids came, but most hated it. It took me a long time to realize that most kids don't like lifting for the sake of it like I do. If your lucky, they like football and realize it makes them better and they will show up willingly. The rest are there because you say so. Case in point, how many seniors after football season are still in the weightroom religiously? I'm willing to bet not more than a handful. Those are the guys that would do it whether you were there or not. They want to be in there, the rest just want to please you.
When we chopped down the program, the number of guys training doubled, and the rate at which those guys attend went up by 10%. We have never been stronger and faster as a team. I feel that is because they actually recover from the workouts, as most eat like crap and stay up late. i do my best to keep in mind in their perspective, and give them a program that accomplishes our training goals, but it delivered in such a way that it's fun for them. I want training to be the best part of their day, like it is for me. That may be different looking for different groups. Fun for them changes year to year based on the personalities of the leadership. Some like to get beat into the ground to see how tough they are, others like competing in various strength competitions, others are just plain goofy.if I can keep a couple key guys engaged, the rest follow. I have to remind myself that like it or not, these are the guys I have, and if they bust their ass to meet our standards of behavior, academics, work ethic which we never come off of, I can be a little adaptable to them so that they actually enjoy training for a GAME that is supposed to be fun. Word has gotten around, that we work hard, but we have a pretty good time in the morning, so even a few "ball is life" basketball cats show up. Since they already did the work, they might as well get the glory. It sure is nice to have a couple 6'5" guys to throw jump balls to on the goal line.
Bottom line for me, LESS is MORE. When dealing with beginners in anything, frequency and consistency are more important than anything else. Whatever it takes to get those two traits, that's what you need to be doing. If you are in a big school in Texas, and the kids will show up even if your training involved smashing your d*ck with hammer for 6 hours a day, then by all means do it. If that is not your situation, than scale back your operation until you get the result you want with the right people. If other kids still don't show, make sure they don't see the field. Doing things that others do, just to make yourself and your ego feel good is stupid. Do what works for you and your guys that's why you are the coach, to develop football players and a team by any means possible. Ditch the rest, it's just fluff.
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Post by bluboy on Mar 4, 2017 17:31:18 GMT -6
I run the strength program for our team before school. We start at 7:00 and go until 8:15. Class starts at 8:35. We go Monday, Wednesday, Friday year round including summer. We used to have 2.5 ball busters after school 5 days a week. Kids came, but most hated it. It took me a long time to realize that most kids don't like lifting for the sake of it like I do. If your lucky, they like football and realize it makes them better and they will show up willingly. The rest are there because you say so. Case in point, how many seniors after football season are still in the weightroom religiously? I'm willing to bet not more than a handful. Those are the guys that would do it whether you were there or not. They want to be in there, the rest just want to please you. When we chopped down the program, the number of guys training doubled, and the rate at which those guys attend went up by 10%. We have never been stronger and faster as a team. I feel that is because they actually recover from the workouts, as most eat like crap and stay up late. i do my best to keep in mind in their perspective, and give them a program that accomplishes our training goals, but it delivered in such a way that it's fun for them. I want training to be the best part of their day, like it is for me. That may be different looking for different groups. Fun for them changes year to year based on the personalities of the leadership. Some like to get beat into the ground to see how tough they are, others like competing in various strength competitions, others are just plain goofy.if I can keep a couple key guys engaged, the rest follow. I have to remind myself that like it or not, these are the guys I have, and if they bust their ass to meet our standards of behavior, academics, work ethic which we never come off of, I can be a little adaptable to them so that they actually enjoy training for a GAME that is supposed to be fun. Word has gotten around, that we work hard, but we have a pretty good time in the morning, so even a few "ball is life" basketball cats show up. Since they already did the work, they might as well get the glory. It sure is nice to have a couple 6'5" guys to throw jump balls to on the goal line. Bottom line for me, LESS is MORE. When dealing with beginners in anything, frequency and consistency are more important than anything else. Whatever it takes to get those two traits, that's what you need to be doing. If you are in a big school in Texas, and the kids will show up even if your training involved smashing your d*ck with hammer for 6 hours a day, then by all means do it. If that is not your situation, than scale back your operation until you get the result you want with the right people. If other kids still don't show, make sure they don't see the field. Doing things that others do, just to make yourself and your ego feel good is stupid. Do what works for you and your guys that's why you are the coach, to develop football players and a team by any means possible. Ditch the rest, it's just fluff. Amen!!!
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Post by silkyice on Mar 4, 2017 21:43:16 GMT -6
But answer your question how much is enough? Here we require our kids to be here for morning workouts they must make 75% to play spring football. HOWEVER, the receive bonuses for playing a second sport. This week our attendance was 88, 64, 72, 78. This is only 10-12 grades. Last year we averaged 51. and we had a down season lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. So know you can require high expectations and still have a good turnout. Coach, I completely agree with you. I will only speak for myself when I say that my intention in this thread is to communicate that their is a difference between HIGH expectations and UNREASONABLE expectations. IMO, asking kids to do something before AND after school several months before their season even starts, is flirting with the unreasonable IMO. I think you can get a TON done by only meeting 3-4 x per week. I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities. Pretty sure a lot of the guys on this board (myself included) would start to complain, rebel, hit up the union rep, etc in a short period of time. On the other hand, if the principal asks for some REASONABLE volunteer time I'm sure most buildings would have several people who are happy to do so. I feel that MOST FB coaches can do a better job of putting themselves in a kids shoes from time to time. JMO. This is an excellent post!
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Davs
Sophomore Member
Posts: 186
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Post by Davs on Mar 4, 2017 22:38:23 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes. Really easy we have the weight room open 4 days a week morning and afternoon. The morning is for in season athletes, but if you are not in a sport and want to come that is fine. In season we lift hard 2 times a week with Saturday being a third day that we go easy. So we are a small public school with just over 400 kids with no money thanks to the former governor and current VP. Everyone is strongly encouraged to make a session. If they don't we don't penalize because that usually takes care of itself in the fall. I can say we have very good attendance. Would I prefer having a class during the school day? Heck ya, but that will never happen.
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carma4848
Freshmen Member
what does probationary member mean?
Posts: 28
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Post by carma4848 on Mar 5, 2017 0:11:45 GMT -6
Some schools have the advantage of being able to lift and conduct the off season program during the last block or period of the school day. I think all schools should be able to do this - its a huge advantage. But more importantly I think the level of effort that is expected and demanded from your team is important. Keep it as convenient as possible for them but always demand effort and intensity. People are drawn to good organizations and conversely they do not want to be a part of poor ones. I would not worry too much about losing a few questionable ones.
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karjaw
Freshmen Member
Posts: 35
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Post by karjaw on Mar 5, 2017 4:34:25 GMT -6
Coaches I love all of the responses and they make a lot of sense. I think there are a couple of things I would like to add that are not in posts already (forgive me if it was stated because there was so many): 1. What if the philosophy of the training for these kids was based on SAFETY and HEALTH?
2. Higher Expectations would be to prepare kids for college football.
HEALTHIER -When we first get our kids in the weight room our goal is two things: A. Make them healthier than they were when they came to us. B. Make them stronger then they were when they came to us. C. Our players love girls and we tell them the better you look the better your chances are. They understand that. D. We want to be lifelong exercisers not just temporary ones so we teach them the WHY as much as the HOW. Even with eating..
I a talk with the PARENTS.You need get them on board.i speak about eating and safety and being healthy
COLLEGE FOOTBALL We get kids perceived or a real possibility that want to play college football. We say: "Cannot play college football unless your good in the weight room"
In response to that Coach who said that those kids were not playing were not coming out either way and that most say it but come out is RIGHT ON.. Kids will say that just so people will leave them alone.
Coach you have to do what is not only right for you, but also what is best for these players and if you come at it from that POV then you could never go wrong and certainly never lower expectations because how is caring lower expectations? Good luck Coach Wright
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Post by coachklee on Mar 5, 2017 6:28:15 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend? Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons 25 hard working kids...if you hang out with turds you'll just end up going to Turdville 💩! You need some talent, but in the end this game comes down to having guys care about preparing to play their absolute best for their teammates.
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Post by coachklee on Mar 5, 2017 8:58:27 GMT -6
My first thought was are those 25 kids that quit ALL turds or are some of them good kids that think football is fun and you sucked that right out of it? We didn't do that much when I played college ball and we were pretty dang good. I would like to know how much better you are truly making these kids? The 50 to 25 was a HUGE exaggeration just for a philosophical question. More like 4 or 6 kids that want to smoke weed after school. So that is different...6 turds out of 50 is way different than 25. While I say good riddance, especially if they are choosing to do drugs...however, I do agree with others that going both before & after school is a bit demanding. We aren't anything special, but our HC chose to go only 3 days a week for about 1 hour after school for non-winter sports athletes (we have right around 10 guys who are putting in about 3-4 hours a week)...and only ask the winter sports athletes to find time to do the 6 core lifts (this is another 10 or so guys that are putting in 3 20 minute sessions or 2 30 minute sessions...around 1 hour total). Now this is at a small Class B / big Class C school of about 500 students, but it will result in us having the 20 or so guys we need to be competitive...I get that you need more if you are at a school of 800+ competing against other schools. We also only go from 5 - 6:30 3 days a week in the summer instead of both morning & evening like my 1st year here under a different HC...the attendance, tempo & overall culture is so much better with almost everyone here. Do we maybe miss a few guys getting all 3 days in...absolutely! However, we quickly figure out who we can truly count on by the end of the summer & I can't think of a single guy that had below 50% attendance that actually contributed for us the past 2 years. Bottom line is that those guys are just too far behind physically on top of not having the discipline needed to quickly learn the football techniques to ensure that we can trust them.
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CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
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Post by CoachSP on Mar 8, 2017 8:56:39 GMT -6
I realize we do a ton. I also can not rely on any additional support from other sports or from PE courses throughout the school day. We have broken our sessions up into AM & PM sessions because of limited gym time (nonexistent). Not sure what move to make. I think a lot of things get better with effort. I also realize at times you need to work smarter, not harder. Just can't wrap my heads around the idea of being better by doing less, when you are already running the race with a 3 legged horse. Seems like you are looking for justification. I get it, though. You are trying to do what is best for your team, job, staff, etc. However, maybe you should discuss with your staff (openly) about some different ideas. Different doesn't have to be worse.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2017 9:17:12 GMT -6
I have seen a few successful programs hit a tipping point when it comes to this issue. The program has success, they start instituting more off-season time for the kids and more expectations and that builds upon that success until they're basically a dynasty. However, they hit a point where the kids are tired of football and they are tired of everything that is asked of them in the off-season. Their frustration with everything they're asked to do spreads like wildfire, numbers in the off-season dwindle and the program falls apart. They may not drop from state champions all the way to the bottom of the league but they end up being a middle tier team in a hurry.
So, it's all a balancing act in the off-season. Get the kids out for other sports, open up the weight room a few days a week, make the weight room a part of the football culture (not a requirement) and then focus on what you can actually control: the actual season.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 8, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -6
I have seen a few successful programs hit a tipping point when it comes to this issue. The program has success, they start instituting more off-season time for the kids and more expectations and that builds upon that success until they're basically a dynasty. However, they hit a point where the kids are tired of football and they are tired of everything that is asked of them in the off-season. Their frustration with everything they're asked to do spreads like wildfire, numbers in the off-season dwindle and the program falls apart. They may not drop from state champions all the way to the bottom of the league but they end up being a middle tier team in a hurry. So, it's all a balancing act in the off-season. Get the kids out for other sports, open up the weight room a few days a week, make the weight room a part of the football culture (not a requirement) and then focus on what you can actually control: the actual season. I agree I appreciate everyone's advice and we have decided to scale back our morning sessions starting this week. However we just told that our access to the weight room is now going to be extremely limited.
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Post by funkfriss on Mar 8, 2017 10:18:36 GMT -6
"...I look at it this way. How would we as faculty feel if our principals decided that our SAT scores aren't reaching our potential and was going to start requesting (not "mandatory" of course) that we start coming in 3 x week earlier than we already do and making ourselves available to students and then pushing us to all stay and extra hour after school as well 4x week to continue teaching students who would be willing to take advantage of the opportunities." I agree 100%. Sometimes coaches, including me, forget that we care more about this game than some of our players do and that our players are high school kids.; not college or pro players. I'll bet very few of any of our players are talking football at this time of year, let alone the X's and O's of the game. They need time to be kids. Yea, they also have to train for the game, but IMHO there is a way to get it done without "consuming thier life" during the off season. BTW, we do not have a weight class at my school, and we are a very competitive program in our area. If there is one thing that has given me more peace of mind as a coach it is within this wonderful post. I have to constantly remind myself, "not everybody loves it as much as I do." This mantra has saved my head from many more poundings against the wall. We have those same "losers" who we couldn't get to lifting if we broke into their house and drug them. I swear if we tried they would just sleep at a different kid's house every day just so we couldn't find them! These kids will still show up Day 1 for football. A few of them are good enough to play Varsity w/out the off-season lifting and we'll play them w/out losing sleep over it. Most of them are good enough to play fresh/soph and JV, but realize quickly that Varsity is a different animal and end up quitting once they're Juniors. And so it goes...
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