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Post by mahonz on Feb 7, 2017 10:21:49 GMT -6
Do away with football below the Freshman HS level and you just killed off the Sport. Odd none of you can see this. Your participation numbers would dwindle to the point you'd eventually have to close up shop. And yes I've heard the argument ad nauseum that this move would have no adverse effect on your own Program. Maybe but eventually you will have no one left to play against. If you think for one minute that a kid that has never played football pre HS but has played all the others Sports is just going to show up out of the blue his 9th grade year...you are a fool. Youth Sports, all of them are fast becoming a specialization thing. Like it or not....agree to disagree all you want....I live it every year. Its a real thing. May as well do everything possible to keep football in the conversation regardless of what you may think otherwise. Or...bone up on your baseball skills so you can coach Fall Baseball or even LAX when it takes the place of football. That is already happening in spades. Im a really good youth coach only because I have already made all the mistakes and now know what not to do anymore. Currently I have conversations with maybe half my team every off season about returning to play another season. Why? Has nothing to do with safety and I mean absolutely ZERO. Has to do with the fact that football is a grind too them. Three practice sessions a week and then play one game. Each Regular Season is only 8 games. This compared to baseball or LAX where they practice once or twice per week and then play 3 or 4 games a week with a 25+ Regualr Season Schedule. They experience this in the Spring for the first time and are hooked. Then find out they can do it all over again in the Fall. Football has simply become....too much work for some and specialization is very real. Why couldn't you run flag youth program like they run Lax and baseball? We do but it does not "stick" past the 3rd / 4th grade levels. Im not sure why. Maybe its because the tackle Program runs it so kids become interested in tackle after a few years. I have coached quite a bit of flag to include Adult levels and can tell you it is far more dangerous when it comes to head injuries than tackle will ever be. So flag as a safety option does not fly with me. Flag can be a very aggressive game....with no protective gear. This kid is probably ready for tackle
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Post by mahonz on Feb 7, 2017 10:38:07 GMT -6
I can't get my two year old to pee in the right place all the time let alone run the right direction. when my 6 year old plays madden half the time he goes backwards. I would never pay money for him to play organized football. LOL !
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 7, 2017 10:44:52 GMT -6
Without getting into a long winded diatribe, I think it's running off more kids than it's getting involved, the culture it is producing among youths and more particularly their parents toward football is disgusting and I just think it's stupid to have 6 year olds playing tackle football. I probably should have more appropriately put- I would not be disappointed to see youth sports die entirely. So to heck with all those kids - and they are the majority - who play youth but don't play in HS? They don't deserve to learn all of those concepts of teamwork, overcoming adversity, etc. and so forth?
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 7, 2017 10:47:38 GMT -6
Do you teach? And what state do you live in? I haven't seen anyone saying that the youth program is a feeder for the HS at all in this thread. Your opinion is based on your experience as a youth coach I'm assuming. The reality here is that most youth coaches I have seen either have no clue or want to use peewee as a d!ck measuring contest. Now there are HS coaches that are the exact same so I honestly believe its a wash on the coaching front. My biggest argument is that the equipment is expensive in the first place and most kids aren't equipped properly. Flag football is cheap and can teach kids a lot of football skills. Throwing, catching, running, tracking a ball carrier are all great fundamentals of the game that can be learned by playing flag football. Having parents pay for everything will make football a rich kids sport. By your logic, we should also get rid of all music programs, cheerleading, clubs and make our schools, even more, test driven robot factories. Those programs are important to the kids developing as individuals and to some the only way to motivate them to perform in the classroom. By having them pay for everything you are leaving out a huge part of the population and in some areas killing the sport completely. I live in Texas. Coaches at public schools are also teachers- at least, at the HS level. If there are exceptions to the rules I'm sure a Texas coach/teacher can step in and clarify. I am not a teacher. I actually work in the computer field and volunteer coach youth tackle football. I didn't accuse anyone of saying youth football programs should be feeder programs to HS programs. My definition of a feeder program is when some youth program runs the same system and uses the same terminology as whatever HS program uses. Success varies. My point was that youth football is not a training ground to develop better HS players. No youth coach should ever be focused on that as a priority. However, in my experience, good youth tackle players from good programs go on to be the better MS and HS players on their teams. Flag football players can't touch them. That's a generality. But, we can only speak in generalities concerning the worth of youth tackle football, or even other youth sports. If your experience is that too many youth coaches are a bunch of clueless idiots, then I can only say after 11yrs of coaching youth tackle football that I whole-heartedly agree. Too many are just passing through while their kid is playing at that level. But, whether they're good, or bad, should not weigh into how it relates to HS football. Who cares? I don't know any of the local HS teams records from the previous seasons. And, none of the coaches from any of those teams know ours, either. They couldn't care less and, neither could we. That's not necessarily a bad thing. They don't have an opinion of our football program. And, I don't have one about any of theirs- except for one school. I don't know how they manage to be bottom feeders year after year with a revolving door of coaching staffs considering some of the talented football players that they have. My guess is that it has more to do with the administration than anything else. Just a guess, though. Football is already a rich kids sport. Not too many poor schools from poor districts winning any district championships unless they're competing against equally poor schools. Definitely won't see a lot of them consistently making it through the play-offs. And, as far as winning a state championship...? HAHA! Good luck with that. Yes, there are always exceptions to the rules. "Throwing, catching, running, tracking a ball carrier are all great fundamentals of the game that can be learned by playing flag football." A flag football player is definitely not the same as a tackle football player- at least, not what I've observed at the youth level. I can teach players to do all of those things you mentioned. They can learn to do those things quite well in a flag football environment. Put that player in pads and have him run a route. Watch what happens when our CB goes into B&R coverage and chucks him straight in the chest and denies him going downfield. Want to see something worse? Have said player run a slant. After the SS plants a shoulder pad right into his ribcage at full speed, you'll discover that the star flag football WR suddenly developed alligator arms and can't catch crap. Also, they tend to suck at catching a football in a crowd. Why? It's because it's not something they're used to doing. They have to decide, in practice, that they want to make the transition over to being a novice tackle football player or go back to being a flag football star. Some will make the transition. They're usually the competitors. Most haven't. BTW, if you want to pull your hair out of your head or, just bang your head up against a wall for awhile, watch a flag football LB track a player and then reach out and try to grab a jersey as a means of making a tackle because he's used to reaching out and pulling flags. The angle of approach is different. I've seen several threads on how to get involved in the youth program. Most HS coaches answer with some sort of drills, etc... Those are crap answers and in no way the best way to help develop a better overall football culture. Better answers are to grab a bunch of those clueless youth coaches so many HS coaches are griping about; and, show them how to run a practice, coaching points to drills, time management in games and practices. There's a lot more to it. But, enough is enough.
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Post by funkfriss on Feb 7, 2017 10:51:50 GMT -6
I always hate when this subject comes around on a HS football board. I find it sad that coach jrk5150 is the only coach that hit on any salient point, whatsoever. I'll even try to make it more clear. The point of youth football is NOT to make kids into better HS football players. Over half of youth football players will never play HS football. And, if there are a bunch of HS football coaches sitting around thinking they missed out on some real gem of some players because said players got 'burnt out' through youth football, they're living through some opium pipe dreams. Sure, it can happen. But, reality is 'burn out' because of youth football is just an excuse some kids give because they don't want to play. Go to a youth game. After the game, you'll see many of those kids running, ripping and playing their hearts out at tag, paper cup football, or whatever it is that they want to do. The football game was just another part of their day. As a youth coach, when I'm checking my players grades, it's not because I give a flying f#ck about how many TD's they may score then, or at anytime in the future. When I'm teaching them how to persevere through adversity it's not because I care how well they tackle. Responsibility is not a derivative of being able to throw and catch some g'damn ball. I tell all of my players that I'd rather see them make an 'A' in math than ever score a TD. As the years have gone by, I've leaned more and more towards all sports being removed from puplic HS's. Wtf should our tax dollars pay for all those school buses, equipment, etc... that is hardly ever used? And, why should I care if some math teacher happens to be good at teaching my kid how to cut block? Teach them how to solve a freaking quadratic equation! That's what we should pay the teacher to do. Give that teacher a stipend for that! I'm all for it. TBH, why should that much money, time and effort be paid by tax dollars to find out which is the best damned 3A HS football team in Texas is? Who gives a _?! In reality, those kids would be better prepared if those public schools had funded military basic training since we've had an on-going 'War on Terror' since 2001. Who gives a crap if the English teacher helped lead some kids to a state championship in anything besides a spelling bee or some other academic competition? And, by the same token, why should an excellent math teacher be ran out of town on a rail because his football team went 3-7 again? Did anyone care about how well he taught algebra before making that kind of a decision about his future at the school? Of course, with standardized testing being all the rage, I guess it doesn't matter as much anymore. I'm all for teen-agers participating in all kinds of sports. I'm just starting to lean more towards it being private schools (if the parents want to pay) and private club organized activities. Let the parents buy the damned equipment. Pay to charter buses. Pay to have their kids learn proper weight training in gyms. If necessary, pay some coaches to teach their uncoordinated, nonathletic 'Next John Elway' to throw a football without causing himself a groin injury on their own dime. I'm good with that. I'd even pay to go spectate. See, this is a great example of how perspective would help the situation. You are obviously in a much different situation than I am in so you see things a lot differently. Here's what I gather... 1. You are a Youth coach in an urban setting. 2. You see sports as a privilege reserved only for those kids whose parents care enough to go out of their way to sign them up and can afford the costs of equipment, transportation, etc. Guessing you must have had some bad experiences with the other group that doesn't fit this description. 3. You must have grown up in a situation where either you did not succeed in high school sports or your high school did not have a good program/tradition/spirit. I gather this because if you had been on the other side you would understand the importance of high school sports for an individual to feel responsibility to a group, school, and community and also you would understand how high school sports shape a community and allow the community to rally around its youth and future citizens. Club sports don't do this. 4. You must not have had great teachers who impacted your life in any way. 5. You think youth coaches are at least as good, if not better than teacher-coaches. I will deduce this is because you are a youth coach and feel you are a good one and you've had experiences where you've seen teacher-coaches that you feel aren't as good as you are. If I'm right, or at least close, then I can understand that you and I come from completely different backgrounds and experiences and that your arguments have no bearings towards my feelings about Youth football in my area.
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Post by CS on Feb 7, 2017 11:22:33 GMT -6
tiger46 the quotes were making the posts too long. Anyway, the argument isn't that youth football is to make better high school players or that we are putting flag football players vs regular football players is going to work. What I was wondering is that would it be safer and better for football altogether to just play flag football until they get to middle school. Your point that a receiver running a slant getting tattooed across the middle is valid, but what if neither player is wearing proper fitting equipment? I see it all of the time kids running around looking like bobble heads out there. edit: We have to teach kids not to reach out and tackle now and they all play tackle football. I don't think that is an issue exclusively of playing flag football.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 11:27:47 GMT -6
Fascinating that responses are so varied. As somebody said, I suppose it's all a matter of perspective.
In our program of 55-60 kids this past year we had 3 that played youth football. I'm fairly certain at least 2 of those would have played HS ball whether they played youth football or not. There is a team in our division that cherrypicks kids from their local pop warner team every year. The kids are always better football players but they're poorly coached so we typically whoop on them pretty good.
When I was in 2nd grade my dad left and he was GONE. I had no grandfathers, uncles or anybody else. My mother was talking about me to a neighbor one day and said, "I have to get this kid into something with a male influence, something to toughen him up or he's going to be a f@g." The neighbor was friends with a guy who was a local youth football coach and he suggested she put me on his team. Football created an extreme change in my life for the better, I can say with confidence that I would not have accomplished in life what I have accomplished.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 7, 2017 11:36:12 GMT -6
Without getting into a long winded diatribe, I think it's running off more kids than it's getting involved, the culture it is producing among youths and more particularly their parents toward football is disgusting and I just think it's stupid to have 6 year olds playing tackle football. I probably should have more appropriately put- I would not be disappointed to see youth sports die entirely. So to heck with all those kids - and they are the majority - who play youth but don't play in HS? They don't deserve to learn all of those concepts of teamwork, overcoming adversity, etc. and so forth? Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying- rolling eyes. I mean, there's NO OTHER WAY for kids to learn that than through youth football is there?
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Post by coachfloyd on Feb 7, 2017 11:41:28 GMT -6
do these kids hit hard enough for this to be an issue?
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Post by coachfloyd on Feb 7, 2017 11:45:05 GMT -6
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Post by seabass on Feb 7, 2017 16:16:09 GMT -6
do these kids hit hard enough for this to be an issue? I don't think that matters. This is coming from the same state that banned soda and "other sugary drinks" over a certain size.
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Davs
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Post by Davs on Feb 7, 2017 18:13:44 GMT -6
If you are a good program with good coaches how are you not a feeder for high school. I pride myself on teaching every kid how to block, tackle, take a hand off, catch a ball, etc.... My kids now what the force man is, how to take a read step, what the flat is, etc... In my opening speech each year I tell the kids and parents that I do not care about wins. We will learn to do things the right way, and the scoreboard will take care of itself. It has worked for a bunch of years so far, and I am not changing. Also many of my youth players continue to play in high school. Of course I understand my way is not what most people do, and I think that is the problem. In fact I will probably get kicked out of Pop Warner this year since the regional board is so hot on putting all-star teams together so they can win little kid championships down at Disney. Not how I roll. I see the same junk with baseball and basketball. I really hate it.
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SconnieOC
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Post by SconnieOC on Feb 7, 2017 18:22:50 GMT -6
If you are a good program with good coaches how are you not a feeder for high school. I pride myself on teaching every kid how to block, tackle, take a hand off, catch a ball, etc.... My kids now what the force man is, how to take a read step, what the flat is, etc... In my opening speech each year I tell the kids and parents that I do not care about wins. We will learn to do things the right way, and the scoreboard will take care of itself. It has worked for a bunch of years so far, and I am not changing. Also many of my youth players continue to play in high school. Of course I understand my way is not what most people do, and I think that is the problem. In fact I will probably get kicked out of Pop Warner this year since the regional board is so hot on putting all-star teams together so they can win little kid championships down at Disney. Not how I roll. I see the same junk with baseball and basketball. I really hate it. This is what I was saying.. For every guy like you who does it right..teaches techniques properly, teaches teamwork/sportsmanship/fundamentals, studies the game and researches new ways to do things.. there's 2 guys who are dipsh$ts. If you feeling like you're going to get kicked out because you're not into all-star teams(even if you are half joking) speaks volumes about why this is a warranted conversation. I do think a quality youth program/middle school program builds to a successful high school program, if there is communication and collaboration from the top down. But the way things are in a lot of places, I really believe it's worth taking a second look at how our sport does things.
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 7, 2017 19:13:49 GMT -6
I agree that the quotes are making the posts too long. But, it seems that I'm trying to answer, at least, two coaches at once.
coachsmyly: "What I was wondering is that would it be safer and better for football altogether to just play flag football until they get to middle school." I honestly don't know. My knee jerk reaction and answer is, 'Yes' as to the safety concerns simply because it's always safer to keep them locked up in the house and playing Madden, or something instead of engaged in an outdoor activity of any kind. Coach Mahonz pointed out that it depends on the level of competitiveness that's on the field. He's much more knowledgeable about flag football than I could ever be. As for it being better for football, my guess would be 'No'. It may not be any worse. But, I definitely don't think playing flag until middle school would be better for the entire sport of football.
Your point that a receiver running a slant getting tattooed across the middle is valid, but what if neither player is wearing proper fitting equipment? If either, neither, all or any of those players are wearing ill fitting equipment they should be removed from the field and their coaches and organization president removed from the league until further notice. There's no excuse for that. It doesn't take that long to learn how to properly size & fit players' equipment. Btw, it's not just about the big hits. We actually much prefer gang tackling. We coach that it takes eleven players to make a tackle. Pursuit! Pursuit! Pursuit! It wears on the psyche of any player. But, it seems to be particularly nasty to players trying to transition from flag./b]
As regards to safety, I'll pose a question. Only taking in consideration the variety, frequency and severity of injuries incurred by HS players as opposed to those of youth players, would a better question be 'At what age should a kid STOP playing tackle football? Maybe around 14 > 15 before the speed and power start to be too dangerous? Before any HS coaches get all up in arms; I'm a a very big fan of HS football. I actually enjoy it more than pros or college. I don't want to see HS aged sports gone; just MAYBE moved to club sports.
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 7, 2017 20:18:01 GMT -6
Davs, same here. Most of our 12u players go on to starting positions at various jr hs. We do want them to win. But, it's not a notch on my belt. I tell my players that not only are my playing days long gone but, the grass I played on is long dead, too. My glory days are over. It's not about the coaches. We want them to win because we want them to experience that feeling. I coach poor kids. Some of them really don't know what it feels like to just win... at anything. But, we also teach them how to handle losses. 2yrs ago, we lost the championship under 2mins of the game when our FS failed to hit their QB running down the sideline like he was taught. He pulled up. QB juked to the inside and made it to the endzone. It was a desperate 4th down & 15 play. Even if he had just pushed the other kid out of bounds, the game would have been over. They had no timeouts left. Man, to have a 12yr old crying on my shoulder blaming himself, thinking that he cost his team a championship was rough. They had worked 3yrs for that championship. But, the truth is, our players made some mental errors. Coach's (ME) fault.
Considering how small of rosters we have, it surprises me how many of our players go on to be starters at MS & HS. I am proud of the players that have success at higher levels. But, I'm just as proud of some of our players that don't play HS football. Some of them have achieved success in other areas. But, they still remember the life lessons that we instilled in them. But, I feel like I've failed when others seem to fall apart. I know of at least three of our former players- all of them were good players and two of them were good kids back then- that are just wandering around in the streets doing absolutely nothing with their young lives. HS drop-outs. One is homeless. Drugs, alcohol and seriously messed up home lives.
We try to teach them as much as we think they can handle. We increase it as they move up through our program. i.e.. I coach the O-lines and I'm also the DC. 8u learn SAB & wedge. 10u learn GOD, Block Down/Kick Out(DW team). 12u learn a basic zone or GOL. Some of the O-line drills are the same. They do them together. Same with the defense. All three levels learn a youth version of the 4-3 defense. We just add more wrinkles as they get older. Some of the 8u's get really serious game faces when they're doing drills with the 12u's. Man, they're priceless to see.
And, before someone asks the ridiculous; no, the 8u's don't do contact drills against the older age groups. LOL!
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Post by somecoach on Feb 7, 2017 20:57:13 GMT -6
do these kids hit hard enough for this to be an issue? I don't think that matters. This is coming from the same state that banned soda and "other sugary drinks" over a certain size. Don't even get me started!
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Davs
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Post by Davs on Feb 7, 2017 21:24:52 GMT -6
Coach I wish I was joking. I also wish I could argue with your points. These grown men want to strut around the Wide World of Disney saying that the champion for whatever division came from their region. I never got into Pop Warner to win championships. If it ever did happen great for the kids. I just hope to teach them some good football, and hopefully help them become fine young men.
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 8, 2017 7:35:51 GMT -6
funkfriss
1. Yes
2. No. I coach underprivileged kids. Poor kids. In fact, I left the glamour league after one year to coach the kind of kids that I coach now. Been there 10yrs. Still going. This season our organization is joining a larger, better funded, better ran league. The fees will be about double. We're taking our players with us. We've worked a lot on getting donors, grants, equipment, etc... Why should the rich kids have all the fun?
3. Only played HS football until 9th grade. Played basketball until 11th grade. Both programs ran by coaches that had been there a long time. Both successful. i.e... play-off runs were expected out of those teams every year. And, they delivered. Small town in West Texas. Friday Night Lights fever doesn't have to be explained to me.
4. kindergarten teacher, 6th grade English teacher/7th grade football coach, martial arts instructor, drill sergeants, college math teacher, parents, etc...
5. Not sure where you got that from. I have no idea if I'm a good youth coach. What metrics would you use? Player retention, Players that go on to play at higher levels. Win/Loss record. Player football knowledge. X's & O's knowledge, etc... To whom would I compare my numbers? The only coach that I can say with a certainty that I know was an unmitigated failure is me. It was after my first season. I knew there had to be a better way than the terrible season I'd just put my players through in that glamour league. I scoured the internet and found this site and others. I can say that I have greatly improved. But, all of that 'Who's better than who' crap isn't a concern of mine.
Along those same lines; how would anyone even compare a HS coach to a Youth coach? Way different job criteria and everything else. No, I wouldn't be afraid to have my team play some other youth team because some HS coach was coaching on their sideline. No, I don't think I'd be successful on a HS coaching staff. I don't even know what all is involved. I've been on this site since 2006, or so. I could talk some bs as if I knew what I was doing. Don't think my cover would last too long, though. LOL!
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 8, 2017 7:43:45 GMT -6
So to heck with all those kids - and they are the majority - who play youth but don't play in HS? They don't deserve to learn all of those concepts of teamwork, overcoming adversity, etc. and so forth? Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying- rolling eyes. I mean, there's NO OTHER WAY for kids to learn that than through youth football is there? Actually, you said all sports. Which is why my post just said youth, not youth football. But sure, I'll play. Football is much (MUCH) harder than anything else those kids are doing athletically with the exception perhaps of youth hockey (also under fire for concussions and really, really expensive) and maybe wrestling (pretty much a niche sport). So yeah, football is the best place to learn those things. As I'm sure you'd agree when it comes to HS kids. I don't get it - why is HS football worth it, but youth football not? What makes what you're doing so special that when we talk about banning something, you're immune, we're not? Everything you have said about youth can just as easily apply to HS. The coaching in HS is, on average, less than good. I can give you a list of coaches whose kids had their love for football ruined by as*hole HS coaches. And HS kids can play another, safer sport too. So your "NO OTHER WAY" comment applies to you as well - why not have the kids do something safer than HS football?
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 8, 2017 7:56:36 GMT -6
Ban HS football.
I really don't care either way.
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 8, 2017 8:43:44 GMT -6
What I was wondering is that would it be safer and better for football altogether to just play flag football until they get to middle school. Then why not flag football in HS? If it's better for kids under 12, then it must be better for kids over 12 too. Look - I know there's a difference as kids move into/through puberty, which also tends to happen in that MS time period. So there certainly is a natural division between youth (as we're applying the term) and HS that's more than just age. But I have seen nothing to suggest when it comes to football that somehow makes the sport safer. In fact, I've seen the opposite, that traumatic injuries jump as you move up in age. In fact, football appears to be less safe at the HS level than it is at the youth level. So, why not have them tackle in youth, and then move to flag as it gets more dangerous in HS? My observation - this is more about historical cultural norms of HS sports and HS football than it is about techniques or safety or anything else. HS football is embedded in our culture to an extent that youth football isn't necessarily. But don't confuse that with what's good/bad/right/wrong or anything else. This is a classic "because it's always been that way" issue, and realize sometimes those things do have to change... That said, I hope it doesn't at any level. Football is hard, and that's really important when it comes to growth and development.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Feb 8, 2017 8:51:11 GMT -6
What about the big kid in youth football that is clearly a running back but has to play line because of his weight? I know of kids that stopped playing youth football because it felt to them like they were never going to get a chance to run the ball.
With flag, every kid runs, catches and throws.
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coachcorrea
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Post by coachcorrea on Feb 8, 2017 9:21:18 GMT -6
What about the big kid in youth football that is clearly a running back but has to play line because of his weight? I know of kids that stopped playing youth football because it felt to them like they were never going to get a chance to run the ball. With flag, every kid runs, catches and throws. I assume your joking.
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 8, 2017 11:15:24 GMT -6
jrk5150, I essentially posed the same question you asked about HS aged football. No one seems to have an answer or, want to answer.
"Only taking in consideration the variety, frequency and severity of injuries incurred by HS players as opposed to those of youth players, would a better question be 'At what age should a kid STOP playing tackle football? Maybe around 14 > 15 before the speed and power start to be too dangerous?"
Again, I repeat that I am a fan of HS football. I enjoy watching the games whenever I get a chance. I also like watching the lower level games.
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Post by CS on Feb 8, 2017 11:45:16 GMT -6
What about the big kid in youth football that is clearly a running back but has to play line because of his weight? I know of kids that stopped playing youth football because it felt to them like they were never going to get a chance to run the ball. With flag, every kid runs, catches and throws. I assume your joking. He isn't. The league hear does that
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Post by CS on Feb 8, 2017 11:54:49 GMT -6
jrk5150. My argument the whole time has really been about improper fitting equipment being a major issue of concern. "If either, neither, all or any of those players are wearing ill-fitting equipment they should be removed from the field and their coaches and organization president removed from the league until further notice. There's no excuse for that. It doesn't take that long to learn how to properly size & fit players' equipment. " What if they don't have the money to properly equip everyone? So now you run into 2 problems, one being that you can make people pay their own way and that takes kids away from the sport, or you can have a league that provides but probably doesn't have the money to make sure everything is properly fitted. In high school, there are state leagues that have rules and regulations and I have worked at one of the poorest schools in the state but we could fit everyone. You're comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Also, my guess is that so many people play soccer because it's cheap. So is flag football
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Post by mahonz on Feb 8, 2017 12:01:34 GMT -6
He isn't. The league hear does that Isn't that simply kicking the can down the road? What happens when 25 flag'rs show up to play Freshman ball? Who blocks? Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ).
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Post by mahonz on Feb 8, 2017 12:14:57 GMT -6
jrk5150 . My argument the whole time has really been about improper fitting equipment being a major issue of concern. "If either, neither, all or any of those players are wearing ill-fitting equipment they should be removed from the field and their coaches and organization president removed from the league until further notice. There's no excuse for that. It doesn't take that long to learn how to properly size & fit players' equipment. " What if they don't have the money to properly equip everyone? So now you run into 2 problems, one being that you can make people pay their own way and that takes kids away from the sport, or you can have a league that provides but probably doesn't have the money to make sure everything is properly fitted. In high school, there are state leagues that have rules and regulations and I have worked at one of the poorest schools in the state but we could fit everyone. You're comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Also, my guess is that so many people play soccer because it's cheap. So is flag football Every piece of equipment that I am aware of comes in youth and adult sizes. Money is always an issue for sure. At the youngest levels football is expensive comparatively if you purchase your own equipment. Once all youth sports hit a certain monument things change dramatically. Many baseball teams turn into Tournament Clubs. Registration fees are $1200. Same deal for soccer and basketball. LAX is starting to go in this direction as well. You can still play Rec level but they still enter some weekend tournaments maybe once or twice a month where the entry fee is 3-400 bucks per team. That does not exist in youth football because you cant play 2-4 games over a weekend. So what happens is while football is indeed expensive at the youngest youth levels it quickly becomes a great value at the older youth levels because you never get hit with horrific registration or in season fees. I have a friend who is coaching baseball. This year they are raising $25K so the team can go to Cooperstown this Summer. There are 14 players on the team. They are 7th graders. Flag is still a good value no matter what level because they have not been sucked into the Tournament format....yet.
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Post by fballcoachg on Feb 8, 2017 13:09:06 GMT -6
He isn't. The league hear does that Isn't that simply kicking the can down the road? What happens when 25 flag'rs show up to play Freshman ball? Who blocks? Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ). Not going to get in to my thoughts on the whole deal, I think everyone has very strong opinions that aren't going to change. Arguably the most successful league in Ohio doesn't have youth football, they start in 7th grade have higher numbers than everyone and win an inordinate amount of games and state titles. While not the only factor (the league is an anomaly in a few other ways) it is a huge factor but when you tell that to other communities around them they have reasons why that would never work for them. However, in all of my coaching experiences some of the biggest headaches have been from the selfish dads that coached their kids or had a buddy coach their kids and inflated that youth league all star mentality so I don't really get what's being weeded out. Part of changing the mindset here is getting people to stop referring to how great their kid was in youth league ball and what bs all star team they were on etc. That has created significant issues and a whole new learning curve for those kids and dads as the kids had to learn how to be coached and had to learn they are not infallible. I could only imagine the problems that causes older level coaches in sports like soccer baseball volleyball and basketball that have year round youth teams. not exactly what you are getting at but it drives me up a wall...no different than the kid that was "really smart" in 5th grade but is barely passing in HS bc his ego has been inflated excuses have been made and he thinks he's the exception to work and being taught.
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 8, 2017 13:09:37 GMT -6
jrk5150 . My argument the whole time has really been about improper fitting equipment being a major issue of concern. "If either, neither, all or any of those players are wearing ill-fitting equipment they should be removed from the field and their coaches and organization president removed from the league until further notice. There's no excuse for that. It doesn't take that long to learn how to properly size & fit players' equipment. " What if they don't have the money to properly equip everyone? So now you run into 2 problems, one being that you can make people pay their own way and that takes kids away from the sport, or you can have a league that provides but probably doesn't have the money to make sure everything is properly fitted. In high school, there are state leagues that have rules and regulations and I have worked at one of the poorest schools in the state but we could fit everyone. You're comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Also, my guess is that so many people play soccer because it's cheap. So is flag football Ah, didn't really get that as the main gist, sorry about that. You said it, I didn't pick up on it. Personally, I don't feel improperly fitted equipment is a major issue, not enough to do away with tackle football anyway. Is flag an alternative in a place where tackle would not be affordable as far as insurance, equipment, etc.? I guess, but I would question whether affordability is really a factor from the standpoint of exhausting all avenues of funding. There are a lot of places you can go to get that money if you work at it. But yeah - if your choice is flag or nothing, okay.
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