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Post by blb on Jan 1, 2017 14:50:10 GMT -6
In regards to losing the battle to other sports: can't we still win with the argument, "football is the next season (fall comes before winter or spring) so you focus on the upcoming sport." Heck I played Summer baseball and hoops when I was in HS too, but if ever a conflict arose football won out (next sport on the calendar). Of course this was in the 1990s; and back then coaches weren't smart enough to realize that players needed to be involved in football 20+ hours a week, for over two months in the summer.
Kids are smarter now too. They get to PLAY Basketball and Baseball in the Summer. At Football they have to WORK out.
Often they get to pay to play their Summer games (try to get them to pay to lift weights) so they do not want to miss out on their investment - or their parents don't want them to.
And whose getting paid? Their travel Baseball and AAU hoops coaches.
Most of us silly Football coaches are spending our Summers in sweaty weight rooms for free.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jan 1, 2017 15:38:16 GMT -6
In Iowa, baseball is a summer sport, so that is our biggest conflict: the fact that some of our kids are in-season in another sport. The lifting program is supposed to be ALL sports, though. Sometimes that applies to baseball, sometimes not I guess...
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Post by carookie on Jan 1, 2017 16:48:05 GMT -6
In regards to losing the battle to other sports: can't we still win with the argument, "football is the next season (fall comes before winter or spring) so you focus on the upcoming sport." Heck I played Summer baseball and hoops when I was in HS too, but if ever a conflict arose football won out (next sport on the calendar). Of course this was in the 1990s; and back then coaches weren't smart enough to realize that players needed to be involved in football 20+ hours a week, for over two months in the summer.
Kids are smarter now too. They get to PLAY Basketball and Baseball in the Summer. At Football they have to WORK out.
Often they get to pay to play their Summer games (try to get them to pay to lift weights) so they do not want to miss out on their investment - or their parents don't want them to.
And whose getting paid? Their travel Baseball and AAU hoops coaches.
Most of us silly Football coaches are spending our Summers in sweaty weight rooms for free.
I was at a program a few years back that mandated all kids pay a summer weight lifting fee. Kids all did it and we had crazy big numbers. We had two Varsity weight training sessions (so as to have enough room in the weight room) one was 8:00-9:15, the other 9:15-10:30; we had two underclassmen times too (late morning and early afternoon) which summer school varsity players could attend to get their lifting in. This was M, W, F. We did speed training (1 hour) and football practice stuff (1 hour) tuesday and thursday evenings....and that was it. No 5 am stuff, no 20+ hour weeks. And this school was one of the top in the state. But the point was we got the kids to pay, and that money was used to pay the coaches who worked the weight room. Monies were paid through athletics, and there was never an issue; 100% did it. I don't know how this was allowed (and frankly I don't want to) but it can be done.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2017 9:07:25 GMT -6
carookie Man, what a slipperly slope though. Charging kids/families to lift to ensure large attendances... I don't know where
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2017 10:11:21 GMT -6
carookie Man, what a slipperly slope though. Charging kids/families to lift to ensure large attendances... I don't know where We didn't do it TO ensure large attendance, my point was we charged and STILL had large attendance. The point being it is possible to charge kids to lift weights (as it was previously implied that you could not charge for the weight room and expect to have large attendance.)
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Post by tabs52 on Jan 2, 2017 10:17:09 GMT -6
We use to go M-T-W-F with lifting at 800 am and workouts starting at 930 till about 1130 This year we are doing away with fridays and going M-TH Monday we are working out at 600 instead of the am workouts
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 2, 2017 10:19:14 GMT -6
Look at what kids do now. They pay huge amounts of money for a personal trainer when they can get free quality training at school. (or inexpensive) People don't think anything could be good if you don't pay alot for it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2017 10:21:52 GMT -6
carookie Man, what a slipperly slope though. Charging kids/families to lift to ensure large attendances... I don't know where We didn't do it TO ensure large attendance, my point was we charged and STILL had large attendance. The point being it is possible to charge kids to lift weights (as it was previously implied that you could not charge for the weight room and expect to have large attendance.) First--lol looks like I clicked post before I finished my thoughts. The original quote should end "I don't know where my conscience falls on that" That said, I wasn't really suggesting that you guys did it for that purpose. I was more running the idea through my mind, because I definitely believe in the behavioral concept that if you pay for something you are more apt to participate.
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Post by coachnick303 on Jan 2, 2017 10:22:17 GMT -6
I don't think there is a perfect system. I know in the previous program I was in we did evenings in order to allow kids to work or take care of academic and other misc things. We also have many coaches that are coming from day jobs which makes mornings difficult to achieve.This had its drawbacks as kids were often flat or distracted and in some cases had attendance issues. Sometimes there are going to be accepted issues that you learn to manage.
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Post by coach31 on Jan 2, 2017 13:53:35 GMT -6
7:00-8:30am Monday - Thursday We lift, do some agility work... QB/WR's stay after to throw the ball around couple days a week for 15-30 minutes. We do the same. It is plenty
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Post by tabs52 on Jan 2, 2017 14:25:34 GMT -6
We didn't do it TO ensure large attendance, my point was we charged and STILL had large attendance. The point being it is possible to charge kids to lift weights (as it was previously implied that you could not charge for the weight room and expect to have large attendance.) First--lol looks like I clicked post before I finished my thoughts. The original quote should end "I don't know where my conscience falls on that" That said, I wasn't really suggesting that you guys did it for that purpose. I was more running the idea through my mind, because I definitely believe in the behavioral concept that if you pay for something you are more apt to participate. Trust me we have discussed the kids paying, not to us for summer workouts but for other sports and trainers. Our tennis coach charges 25 and hour to players for summer lessons. For us coaches we volunteer all winter and summer to our football program. We do not get paid for this time and the one time our boosters gave us a small amount of money it became an issue.
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2017 14:25:52 GMT -6
I know we've had this discussion on this site numerous times, but I'll bring it up here as it may help. How much practice do you need in the summer? Excluding weight room and speed training (which you can break up into smaller sessions to accommodate various schedules) how many hours do you need to practice football skills in the summer?
Do we do it because it has a real impact, or do we do it to keep up with the Joneses?
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2017 14:29:22 GMT -6
We didn't do it TO ensure large attendance, my point was we charged and STILL had large attendance. The point being it is possible to charge kids to lift weights (as it was previously implied that you could not charge for the weight room and expect to have large attendance.) First--lol looks like I clicked post before I finished my thoughts. The original quote should end "I don't know where my conscience falls on that" That said, I wasn't really suggesting that you guys did it for that purpose. I was more running the idea through my mind, because I definitely believe in the behavioral concept that if you pay for something you are more apt to participate. Shoot, I had a hard time justifying it in my mind (charging kids to lift weights seemed wrong to me). But it wasn't an exorbitant amount, I think $40 per kid for the whole summer, and apparently it was common practice in the area.
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 2, 2017 15:58:12 GMT -6
We go (most years) from 7:30-9 am Monday through Thursday. Weights then a touch game if weather permits. We go to 1, 4 day (3 hours per day) full contact camp. 2 this year because I'm starting at a new school. That's it other than encouraging the skills kids to do some things on their own. Most big schools around here do 7 on 7 all summer. I'm not. I put a high premium on the summer weights attendance and kids who don't score well on my pre-season test stay longer during the pre-season practices to work on strength. (justify it by "safety issue)
Our summer program is a rec program and I am hired to run it. Kids have a very small fee.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 2, 2017 16:54:24 GMT -6
Varsity goes 6-8am. Hour in the weight room, hour on the field.
JV goes 7-9, same idea.
Frosh go 7-9 but start on field before weight room.
We go M-Th and take the week of the 4th off.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2017 17:06:22 GMT -6
Varsity goes 6-8am. Hour in the weight room, hour on the field. JV goes 7-9, same idea. Frosh go 7-9 but start on field before weight room. We go M-Th and take the week of the 4th off. Man, looking back at myself when I was 14-18, If I had to be at school at 6am 4 days a week in the summer, I am not sure I would have played football.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 2, 2017 18:49:11 GMT -6
Varsity goes 6-8am. Hour in the weight room, hour on the field. JV goes 7-9, same idea. Frosh go 7-9 but start on field before weight room. We go M-Th and take the week of the 4th off. Man, looking back at myself when I was 14-18, If I had to be at school at 6am 4 days a week in the summer, I am not sure I would have played football. On the other side of the coin, I would have been all-in on that idea. It doesn't negatively affect our program but we do a better job than most of managing our guys so they don't get burned out.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2017 19:06:48 GMT -6
Man, looking back at myself when I was 14-18, If I had to be at school at 6am 4 days a week in the summer, I am not sure I would have played football. On the other side of the coin, I would have been all-in on that idea. It doesn't negatively affect our program but we do a better job than most of managing our guys so they don't get burned out. I was trying to figure out how it would have worked. I guess my mom would have had to gotten herself and my 3 younger brothers and sisters up and loaded us all into the car to drive me every single morning... 4 times a week..
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2017 19:19:39 GMT -6
Varsity goes 6-8am. Hour in the weight room, hour on the field. JV goes 7-9, same idea. Frosh go 7-9 but start on field before weight room. We go M-Th and take the week of the 4th off. Man, looking back at myself when I was 14-18, If I had to be at school at 6am 4 days a week in the summer, I am not sure I would have played football. I agree wholeheartedly, we load up a LOT more on these kids and make them get up earlier and earlier (most of which I question if it is even necessary); and when they waiver at giving up so much of their summer we act as if they don't want it enough
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 2, 2017 19:21:36 GMT -6
Here we are able to practice with the players after something like June 16th, but cannot use any school owned equipment. Each QB brings a ball, or any other player who has footballs brings them. We practiced twice a week 4:30-6 until the season officially started.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2017 19:25:35 GMT -6
Here we are able to practice with the players after something like June 16th, but cannot use any school owned equipment. Each QB brings a ball, or any other player who has footballs brings them. We practiced twice a week 4:30-6 until the season officially started. This seems like it could be extremely beneficial to schools with higher socio-economic enrollments.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 2, 2017 19:50:34 GMT -6
Here we are able to practice with the players after something like June 16th, but cannot use any school owned equipment. Each QB brings a ball, or any other player who has footballs brings them. We practiced twice a week 4:30-6 until the season officially started. This seems like it could be extremely beneficial to schools with higher socio-economic enrollments. I've never seen the rule in writing, just what our coach tells us, but I would imagine kids can't show up in their own pads. I would think the rule has limitations.
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Post by fantom on Jan 2, 2017 20:23:16 GMT -6
This seems like it could be extremely beneficial to schools with higher socio-economic enrollments. I've never seen the rule in writing, just what our coach tells us, but I would imagine kids can't show up in their own pads. I would think the rule has limitations. If that's really the way the rule is worded it's damn near unenforceable. If you can't use school owned equipment what's to stop a coach from buying a couple footballs? For that matter what's to stop the school from giving the coach some footballs?
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Post by bjohnson on Jan 2, 2017 20:24:47 GMT -6
After reading the posts I see a lot of people "practicing" during the summer and keeping kids for 4 hours a day... Seems a bit much to me. How do you keep their intensity/excitement up practicing during the summer and then during the season. We lift/agilities during the summer 4 days a week for 1.5 hours (6 weeks long), one 4 day camp (by ourselves) and 3 days of 7 on 7. For us that is plenty and maybe too much, we debate every year about working out 3 days a week instead of 4.
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2017 20:45:58 GMT -6
After reading the posts I see a lot of people "practicing" during the summer and keeping kids for 4 hours a day... Seems a bit much to me. How do you keep their intensity/excitement up practicing during the summer and then during the season. We lift/agilities during the summer 4 days a week for 1.5 hours (6 weeks long), one 4 day camp (by ourselves) and 3 days of 7 on 7. For us that is plenty and maybe too much, we debate every year about working out 3 days a week instead of 4. You don't, but then you blame them for being snowflake millennials who werent as tough as we were (smh, kids these days). I was at a school that wen't 8-noon 5 days a week in the summer: lift or run for the first 75 minutes, O for an hour, D for an hour, rest of the time was either speeches or film. The most beneficial thing we got out of it was we could truthfully say, "nobody works like us" (note that didnt mean better, but just 'like'); and it gave something to sell to perspective parents and players (lotta parents buy into the more time is better). But when some other school down the road is doing 14 hours a week we gotta put up more, otherwise we'd be accused of being lazy.
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Post by holmesbend on Jan 2, 2017 21:44:37 GMT -6
I always hated evening workouts as a player and still do as a coach. It feels like it ties up your whole day to me. Same here.
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Post by coachnick303 on Jan 3, 2017 9:47:16 GMT -6
I know we've had this discussion on this site numerous times, but I'll bring it up here as it may help. How much practice do you need in the summer? Excluding weight room and speed training (which you can break up into smaller sessions to accommodate various schedules) how many hours do you need to practice football skills in the summer? Do we do it because it has a real impact, or do we do it to keep up with the Joneses? I think this is something that is really a case by case. I know we will practice more this summer because we are in our first year at the school and are installing a new system. I also guess it depends on how you classify practice. We will have a 2 week camp as well as 7 on 7.
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Post by mholst40 on Jan 4, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6
For those of you who don't do a lot during summer, are you able to have spring practice? Do you have a lot of participation? How do you handle that with kids playing multiple sports?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:43:56 GMT -6
We go M-F, 3:30-6:30 and I hate it. I'd give anything to move things to the morning but some of our coaches can't do it. I think M-F is excessive, I wish the HC would drop to 4 days per week.
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Post by bluboy on Jan 4, 2017 17:45:41 GMT -6
We are getting to the point where many of our kids are lacrosse(baseball, basketball) players first and football players second. If we were to have summer workouts at night, we would not see a bunch of kids who will play in the fall(b/c games or practices). If we were to have marathon morning workouts, these same players would probably leave football. We are fortunate in that many of our players do not work in the summer, and those that do have bosses who are willing to tweak work schedules so these guys can workout. We have NO football activities on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. The only night-time activities (during summer) are 7 on 7's with other schools, and these start at 6 and are finished by 8. If a kid can't make it, no big deal. All we ask is that he notify us in advance so that we are assured of having enough players. Sometimes coaches forget that these are 16-18 year-old KIDS. They are not on scholarship, and they are not getting paid obscene sums of money to play. They're doing it because they like the game.
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