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Post by aceback76 on Dec 3, 2016 18:00:09 GMT -6
You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! For those of use who were not alive long enough to recall these or are unaware of these are you going to post the answers? I would be GLAD to give of my time, by answering any & all questions over the phone for those who interested enough to call. You don't "do justice" to any game play typing with all the "what-if's"! BOOKS could be written about any of these topics. 804-716-7038 (Virginia)
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Post by returnoftheshadow on Dec 5, 2016 8:54:37 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! Bob Davies? Bob Davies !??! What did he do? He had a defense with twice the talent as Houston and played Cover 0 the entire time and STILL LOST in 1990. Real schematic guy there, give him credit for "stopping" the Run & Shoot. Erickson? What did he do to "stop" the Run & Shoot besides inherit the best team in college football? Great examples, brilliant.
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Post by aceback76 on Dec 5, 2016 9:32:48 GMT -6
Talent is always blamed for every win & loss in football. You STILL have to have a good "plan" (the R & S, just like a good Flexbone Optiuon team, is HARD to get reafy for in one week, and they WILL move the ball).
Davies gave us a blueprint vs. the R & S we still use today (but we RARELY see a pure R&S with 6 man protection). Bob's scheme (I have the game film) enabled ONE OLB to come unblocked the entire game (that is what did the trick). He not only used Cover 0, he disguised it as "Wing-Combo" coverage, and often mixed IN "Wing-Combo".
Charley Weis in his book ("No Excuses") on page 79 tells how the A & M defense was what became the answer to the R & S in college, AND in it's brief stint in the NFL.
After the crushing to loss to MIami (who played a BASE 4-3 with minor adjustments, & Cover 2) - John Jenkins was on the way out.
NOTE: I spent an entire evening a few years ago with R & S "OC" (at SMU under June Jones) Dan Morrison, and he admitted that Davies' scheme forced R & S people to do "MANY THINGS" to deal with it.
Miami video below:
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Post by returnoftheshadow on Dec 5, 2016 10:25:52 GMT -6
Talent is always blamed for every win & loss in football. You STILL have to have a good "plan" (the R & S, just like a good Flexbone Optiuon team, is HARD to get reafy for in one week, and they WILL move the ball). Davies gave us a blueprint vs. the R & S we still use today (but we RARELY see a pure R&S with 6 man protection). Bob's scheme (I have the game film) enabled ONE OLB to come unblocked the entire game (that is what did the trick). He not only used Cover 0, he disguised it as "Wing-Combo" coverage, and often mixed IN "Wing-Combo". Charley Weis in his book ("No Excuses") on page 79 tells how the A & M defense was what became the answer to the R & S in college, AND in it's brief stint in the NFL. After the crushing to loss to MIami (who played a BASE 4-3 with minor adjustments, & Cover 2) - John Jenkins was on the way out. NOTE: I spent an entire evening a few years ago with R & S "OC" (at SMU under June Jones) Dan Morrison, and he admitted that Davies' scheme forced R & S people to do "MANY THINGS" to deal with it. Miami video below: What makes him a genius from the other coaches that tried the same thing and lost by 70-80?! TALENT. Way to boost a guy that deserves zero credit for coming up with any "gameplay" to "stop" an offense. He played one coverage and brought 7 vs. a team that was inferior talent wise and was on down years because of sanctions. Big Deal. How about you talk about gameplans from Rice who had zero talent in 1990 and held Houston, the nations #1 offense, to the fewest points they scored that year 24. The coaches at Rice were actually innovating ways to handle the R&S, not this generic crap you are raving about Davies which wasn't the first to try (Pepper Rodgers Memphis Showboats), he just had superior talent upfront, same as Miami who went up against Houston when they replaced half there starters in a sanction year. And by your own evaluation you admitted Erickson played one coverage with tweaks, ZERO INNOVATION. He just happened to inherit a national championship team with first rounders up front vs. below average Houston lineman. Any coach that got that job would be getting all this false credit for "stopping" an offense. Basically ANY scheme would have worked that night. These are just terrible examples from coaches that had way better teams. They innovated nothing. You're "Note" coach was coaching high school football in Hawaii at the time and knows nothing about Davies. NOTE: Cool video
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Post by aceback76 on Dec 5, 2016 10:38:34 GMT -6
Talent is always blamed for every win & loss in football. You STILL have to have a good "plan" (the R & S, just like a good Flexbone Optiuon team, is HARD to get reafy for in one week, and they WILL move the ball). Davies gave us a blueprint vs. the R & S we still use today (but we RARELY see a pure R&S with 6 man protection). Bob's scheme (I have the game film) enabled ONE OLB to come unblocked the entire game (that is what did the trick). He not only used Cover 0, he disguised it as "Wing-Combo" coverage, and often mixed IN "Wing-Combo". Charley Weis in his book ("No Excuses") on page 79 tells how the A & M defense was what became the answer to the R & S in college, AND in it's brief stint in the NFL. After the crushing to loss to MIami (who played a BASE 4-3 with minor adjustments, & Cover 2) - John Jenkins was on the way out. NOTE: I spent an entire evening a few years ago with R & S "OC" (at SMU under June Jones) Dan Morrison, and he admitted that Davies' scheme forced R & S people to do "MANY THINGS" to deal with it. Miami video below: What makes him a genius from the other coaches that tried the same thing and lost by 70-80?! TALENT. Way to boost a guy that deserves zero credit for coming up with any "gameplay" to "stop" an offense. He played one coverage and brought 7 vs. a team that was inferior talent wise and was on down years because of sanctions. Big Deal. How about you talk about gameplans from Rice who had zero talent in 1990 and held Houston, the nations #1 offense, to the fewest points they scored that year 24. The coaches at Rice were actually innovating ways to handle the R&S, not this generic crap you are raving about Davies which wasn't the first to try (Pepper Rodgers Memphis Showboats), he just had superior talent upfront, same as Miami who went up against Houston when they replaced half there starters in a sanction year. And by your own evaluation you admitted Erickson played one coverage with tweaks, ZERO INNOVATION. He just happened to inherit a national championship team with first rounders up front vs. below average Houston lineman. Any coach that got that job would be getting all this false credit for "stopping" an offense. Basically ANY scheme would have worked that night. These are just terrible examples from coaches that had way better teams. They innovated nothing. You're "Note" coach was coaching high school football in Hawaii at the time and knows nothing about Davies. NOTE: Cool video Houston was ranked #10 in the nation when they faced Miami in 1991. You don't get to #10 with POOR TALENT! A & M's thinking in 1991 (which was "sound") was to play 3 Down Linemen, 2 LBers, & 6 Defensive Backs. DISGUISE all this to look the SAME: then bring 7 and play Cover 0, OR, drop 8 with some form of Cover 2 or Cover 3. Play more Man than Zone because with their wide splits Zone coverage BECOMES essentially Man coverage anyway. They held Houston to 17 points. Noe tell me HOW Rice did it?
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Post by returnoftheshadow on Dec 5, 2016 11:05:03 GMT -6
What makes him a genius from the other coaches that tried the same thing and lost by 70-80?! TALENT. Way to boost a guy that deserves zero credit for coming up with any "gameplay" to "stop" an offense. He played one coverage and brought 7 vs. a team that was inferior talent wise and was on down years because of sanctions. Big Deal. How about you talk about gameplans from Rice who had zero talent in 1990 and held Houston, the nations #1 offense, to the fewest points they scored that year 24. The coaches at Rice were actually innovating ways to handle the R&S, not this generic crap you are raving about Davies which wasn't the first to try (Pepper Rodgers Memphis Showboats), he just had superior talent upfront, same as Miami who went up against Houston when they replaced half there starters in a sanction year. And by your own evaluation you admitted Erickson played one coverage with tweaks, ZERO INNOVATION. He just happened to inherit a national championship team with first rounders up front vs. below average Houston lineman. Any coach that got that job would be getting all this false credit for "stopping" an offense. Basically ANY scheme would have worked that night. These are just terrible examples from coaches that had way better teams. They innovated nothing. You're "Note" coach was coaching high school football in Hawaii at the time and knows nothing about Davies. NOTE: Cool video Houston was ranked #10 in the nation when they faced Miami in 1991. You don't get to #10 with POOR TALENT! A & M's thinking in 1991 (which was "sound") was to play 3 Down Linemen, 2 LBers, & 6 Defensive Backs. DISGUISE all this to look the SAME: then bring 7 and play Cover 0, OR, drop 8 with some form of Cover 2 or Cover 3. Play more Man than Zone because with their wide splits Zone coverage BECOMES essentially Man coverage anyway. They held Houston to 17 points. Noe tell me HOW Rice did it? Its called a SANCTION year. They were ranked #10 because of what they did in 1990 before they lost half there starters and went 4-7 in 1991 with a depleted team. Sanctions catch up in recruiting and with less scholarships it did at Houston, just like it did at USC when all of a sudden after a good year the next season they dropped bad and Kiffin was now a "bad" coach. in 1991 Illinois beat the sh!t out of Houston, worse then Miami, want to rave about them too? Houston didn't have any talent especially at O-Line so I don't want to hear about some Texas A&M scheme vs. inferior talent. What happened in 1990 all things even? Gave up 36+ to the Cougars. Davies. Did. Nothing. Innovative.
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Post by aceback76 on Dec 5, 2016 11:09:56 GMT -6
If you ever WATCH the 1991 A & M/Houston film from start to finish, you will see A & M bring an unblocked OLB play-after-play to Klingler. While that in itself may not be "innovative" (except it destroyed the OG's "double-read" rules), Houston certainly did nothing "innovative" to STOP it!
Dan Morrison (SMU "OC") talked to me face-to face at LENGTH about how June Jones was still trying to adjust to that (in 2011 - 20 years later).
Now tell me what those OTHER teams (Rice & Illinois) did. I'd seriously like to know.
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Post by returnoftheshadow on Dec 5, 2016 11:18:08 GMT -6
If you ever WATCH the 1991 A & M/Houston film from start to finish, you will see A & M bring an unblocked OLB play-after-play to Klingler. While that in itself may not be innovative (except it destroyed the OG's "double-read" rules), Houston certainly did nothing innovative to STOP it! Dan Morrison (SMU "OC") talked to me at LENGTH about how June Jones was still trying to adjust to that (in 2011). Now tell me what those OTHER teams (Rice & Illinois) did. I'd like to know. Yes, real brilliant. Play a 7 man front vs. 6. I just asked my 2 year old (who can count), he let me know the defensive hand has 1 more then the offensive hand. Lol you are bringing real credibility in now. Actually, if you could stay awake in that entire conversation I give you a great amount of credit. NOTE: I will watch film start to finish on my own offense I may or may not be directly related to or work for or spy for.
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Post by blb on Dec 5, 2016 11:25:16 GMT -6
Oh gawd - SOMEBODY mentioned the "offense that dare not speak its name."
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Post by aceback76 on Dec 5, 2016 11:35:03 GMT -6
If you ever WATCH the 1991 A & M/Houston film from start to finish, you will see A & M bring an unblocked OLB play-after-play to Klingler. While that in itself may not be innovative (except it destroyed the OG's "double-read" rules), Houston certainly did nothing innovative to STOP it! Dan Morrison (SMU "OC") talked to me at LENGTH about how June Jones was still trying to adjust to that (in 2011). Now tell me what those OTHER teams (Rice & Illinois) did. I'd like to know. Yes, real brilliant. Play a 7 man front vs. 6. I just asked my 2 year old (who can count), he let me know the defensive hand has 1 more then the offensive hand. Lol you are bringing real credibility in now. Actually, if you could stay awake in that entire conversation I give you a great amount of credit. NOTE: I will watch film start to finish on my own offense I may or may not be directly related to or work for or spy for. The DISGUISE is what did it!
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Post by blb on Dec 5, 2016 11:37:36 GMT -6
This could go on for YEARS - cost MILLIONS of lives!
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Post by returnoftheshadow on Dec 5, 2016 12:07:07 GMT -6
Yes, real brilliant. Play a 7 man front vs. 6. I just asked my 2 year old (who can count), he let me know the defensive hand has 1 more then the offensive hand. Lol you are bringing real credibility in now. Actually, if you could stay awake in that entire conversation I give you a great amount of credit. NOTE: I will watch film start to finish on my own offense I may or may not be directly related to or work for or spy for. The DISGUISE is what did it! The Perfect Illusion
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Post by silkyice on Dec 5, 2016 13:26:38 GMT -6
This could go on for YEARS - cost MILLIONS of lives! LMAO
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 13:54:35 GMT -6
Oh gawd - SOMEBODY mentioned the "offense that dare not speak its name." We never speak of the offense that rhymes with Fun and Fruit ....EVER! Its always like having said Beetlejuice twice already when you say it
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Post by pitt1980 on Dec 5, 2016 14:50:20 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it!
Sounds like a book or blog that you should try to write
I'd would read that
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actually, what caused the best offenses ever to run into icebergs would probably make an interesting offseason study
I bet what you'd find more than often than you'd care to, is that the QB picked a bad day to start throwing it the other team, or the RB picked a bad day to start fumbling it, or both, ie just a bunch of random factors
(or in addition, this happened to be the best DL they played all year, and suddenly the offense didn't look so good when it was hard for them to block everyone)
more than any particularly cleaver strategy from the coaches
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on a totally theoretical level, you could think about messing around the variance of what you're giving up, try at you're own risk, but a lot of the really vertical downfield stuff is relatively high variance, if you're truly an underdog, variance works in your favor
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Post by aceback76 on Dec 5, 2016 15:13:00 GMT -6
You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it!
Sounds like a book or blog that you should try to write
I'd would read that
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actually, what caused the best offenses ever to run into icebergs would probably make an interesting offseason study
I bet what you'd find more than often than you'd care to, is that the QB picked a bad day to start throwing it the other team, or the RB picked a bad day to start fumbling it, or both, ie just a bunch of random factors
(or in addition, this happened to be the best DL they played all year, and suddenly the offense didn't look so good when it was hard for them to block everyone)
more than any particularly cleaver strategy from the coaches
------------
on a totally theoretical level, you could think about messing around the variance of what you're giving up, try at you're own risk, but a lot of the really vertical downfield stuff is relatively high variance, if you're truly an underdog, variance works in your favor
It HELPS to have the best players, play with confidence, AND have a good plan!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 20:25:08 GMT -6
Ahh Jeez Gruden just said "it" on MNF
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 5, 2016 21:55:15 GMT -6
Y'all get your popcorn ready?
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