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Post by texasstyle on Oct 29, 2016 12:25:20 GMT -6
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Post by carookie on Oct 29, 2016 13:06:54 GMT -6
Please note, the timeout situation on the bottom of the screen is inaccurate. It will throw you off as to strategy if you don't know that
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Oct 29, 2016 13:22:46 GMT -6
That is insane
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 29, 2016 14:00:36 GMT -6
So what is the rule interpretation on swiping at the ball before it's snapped. Did the refs feel that the snap had started before the DL swiped it on the one they ruled a turnover?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 14:47:16 GMT -6
+1 to that. What is also insane (to a guy that coaches at a small private school) is the number of kids they have.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 29, 2016 14:54:03 GMT -6
I feel like that many consecutive penalties for the same thing starts to verge on "travesty of the game," opening up some of the refs powers.
I heard an interpretation once that a swiped snap has to be either offside on the defence or an illegal snap by the offense.
It is probably in the interest of the NFHS to issue an edict on this promptly because if this is allowed it should become everybody's go to strategy in that situation.
Suggested fix: one yard neutral zone.
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Oct 29, 2016 15:05:54 GMT -6
Philosophically speaking. A game cannot end on a defensive penalty. So if you have a play like that where no time comes off and it's basically the only way you can get the ball back, I get it. Super annoying but I get it.
This reminds me of a game we had where at the end of the half, the refs wouldn't allow me to decline any of these penalties. It was 4th down in our own territory and we were punting. We had time on the clock and couldn't just fall down but the other team just kept getting flagged for this that and the other thing and I was just trying to kick the ball out of bounds and get to half time. The refs wouldn't let me decline any of the flags so we had to punt like 4-5 times.
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Post by carookie on Oct 29, 2016 15:26:29 GMT -6
So the blue team swiped the snap and caused a fumble. To me it is physically impossible to do that unless:
A) the defense was offsides when the snap took place B) the center started to snap the ball but then held it, thus illegal snap and no play.
In either case this shouldnt have happened
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 29, 2016 16:52:22 GMT -6
Earlier I only had time to watch the first few snaps--did the team try to knee the ball every time and then one swipe was deemed successful? Where I have coached--both IL and IA schools--teams tell the refs they are taking a knee and the defense has to literally stand there and can't pressure it at all.
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Post by carookie on Oct 29, 2016 17:49:54 GMT -6
Earlier I only had time to watch the first few snaps--did the team try to knee the ball every time and then one swipe was deemed successful? Where I have coached--both IL and IA schools--teams tell the refs they are taking a knee and the defense has to literally stand there and can't pressure it at all. Yeah, they swiped multiple times, submarined too. Eventually the QB took the snap from a shotgun to avoid getting hit (and actually got to take a knee on one); however the team in blue kept at it and on one of those the DL swiped and caused a fumble (or at least the refs allowed it). I don't think it is physically possible without jumping off sides, but whatever. The team in blue recovered, got in FG range....and missed. But then the refs called offside on the opponent, they kicked again and won. I always thought, if a team got tied in the last second of the game, and the opponent still had the EP to kick, the defense should keep trying to time the snap off the edge to block it. Probably jump offsides 10 times, but hopefully eventually get it. This was bonkers though.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 29, 2016 18:05:53 GMT -6
I don't know how that coach went back to the sideline after the "turnover". I would have gotten 2 penalties and been ejected. I'm pissed just watching this.
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Post by **** on Oct 29, 2016 19:18:16 GMT -6
This needs to be brought to the state.
These officials should never be allowed to ref a game again in their phuking life.
The coach at the gray school should be disciplined for having his players blatantly cheat.
How the phuk did the guy at the orange school keep his head during this?
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Post by coachjps on Oct 29, 2016 21:25:39 GMT -6
In Colorado, if you declare that you are taking a knee the opposing team can't touch you. If so its a unsportsmanlike. Wasn't sure if I agreed with the rule but after seeing this crap I have no problem with that rule. Those officials should be embarrassed.
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Post by nstanley on Oct 29, 2016 23:55:30 GMT -6
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Post by coolhandluke on Oct 30, 2016 7:30:35 GMT -6
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Oct 30, 2016 7:39:58 GMT -6
In Colorado, if you declare that you are taking a knee the opposing team can't touch you. If so its a unsportsmanlike. Wasn't sure if I agreed with the rule but after seeing this crap I have no problem with that rule. Those officials should be embarrassed. I struggle with this rule. If there is time remaining on the clock, I believe the Offense should have to execute a snap and take a knee, even if the the defense does come off the ball. You still have the execute the snap in my opinion if there is time on the clock- otherwise, just end the game at the time the offense says they are going to take a knee. Mind you, I am talking a big difference between what was done in this video (completely unacceptable) and simply coming off the ball and forcing the offense to execute properly to end the game, especially in a close game.
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Post by dytmook on Oct 30, 2016 18:46:43 GMT -6
There is a fraction of a second the snap is in motion and if you go the slam into the center at that time wouldn't it be legal? It's not anything too different that putting your best nose on the center and having him beat the chit out of the center to force bad snaps. that said, it does go against spirit of the rules in this situation.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 30, 2016 19:15:12 GMT -6
There is a fraction of a second the snap is in motion and if you go the slam into the center at that time wouldn't it be legal? It's not anything too different that putting your best nose on the center and having him beat the chit out of the center to force bad snaps. that said, it does go against spirit of the rules in this situation. I think if it were possible we would see teams doing it more often.
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Post by ahall005 on Oct 30, 2016 19:47:08 GMT -6
Absolute Garbage. Have to give credit to the orange teams coaches for the way they handled it. Much better than I would have done.
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 30, 2016 20:07:42 GMT -6
What about getting into a punt formation...where you "can't touch the snapper"?
Just throwing that out there.
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Post by 90rocket on Oct 30, 2016 21:34:27 GMT -6
What about getting into a punt formation...where you "can't touch the snapper"? Just throwing that out there. That's interesting. Can you get into a punt formation on 3rd down to make sure there is no nose guard?
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Post by carookie on Oct 30, 2016 22:05:06 GMT -6
There is a fraction of a second the snap is in motion and if you go the slam into the center at that time wouldn't it be legal? It's not anything too different that putting your best nose on the center and having him beat the chit out of the center to force bad snaps. that said, it does go against spirit of the rules in this situation. I dont think that would be physically possible without either A) the defense lining up in the neutral zone or B) the center performing an illegal snap which in either case leads to a deadball penalty and no snap taking place.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 30, 2016 23:25:47 GMT -6
Basically, to be legal a snap has to have some "snap" to it. So between the snap needing to be quick, and the minimum time of about 0.15 seconds the argument is that nobody could possibly be quick enough to react to the snap and swipe at the ball successfully unless the snap was extremely slow, to the point of being a penalty (a rule which exists because it limits ambiguity on what constitutes the start of the play, so there's no confusion about whether it's game on or the center just adjusting the ball.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 31, 2016 6:18:15 GMT -6
Wow. How do you let somebody swipe a snap? That's terrible.
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Post by **** on Oct 31, 2016 7:05:13 GMT -6
What about getting into a punt formation...where you "can't touch the snapper"? Just throwing that out there. I'm 99% sure NFHS changed the rule to only 4th down after the whole A11 stuff was out for a few years.
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Post by Coach Vint on Oct 31, 2016 8:48:50 GMT -6
The amazing thing to me is how Artesia kept their composure. Watch the video all the way through and see how much class they showed in defeat. I hate to lose, but I hate pouting even more.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 31, 2016 9:29:04 GMT -6
What about getting into a punt formation...where you "can't touch the snapper"? Just throwing that out there. I'm 99% sure NFHS changed the rule to only 4th down after the whole A11 stuff was out for a few years. That rule change affected the eligible number exception, I don't believe it affected the scrimmage kick snapper protection. Call it the "John David Booty" rule?
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Oct 31, 2016 10:21:30 GMT -6
The amazing thing to me is how Artesia kept their composure. Watch the video all the way through and see how much class they showed in defeat. I hate to lose, but I hate pouting even more. I actually played high school ball for a school that shares the district with both Artesia, and the team in blue, Goddard. Each game was essentially a rivalry game but we always respected Artesia and they have always been a class act team. Goddard on the other hand, not so much.
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Post by natenator on Oct 31, 2016 10:29:11 GMT -6
Suggested fix: one yard neutral zone. 2015 OVFL JV championship between Myers and Niagara. Myers has a 3 point lead with less than a minute left in the game. Myers goes into victory formation to take a knee. Niagara lines up to play. They blast the centre on the first down, centre was pretty slow to get up as he didn't expect to be Niagara to rush him. Second down, the snap gets off but the QB ends up on the ground due to the rush. This down, Niagara causes a fumble and get the ball back. One yard neutral zone didn't seem to work out too well lol
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 31, 2016 10:31:09 GMT -6
That's not a case of the ball being swiped, that's just Myers being stupid for not kneeling out of shotgun.
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