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Post by wildcat on Sept 30, 2007 12:59:19 GMT -6
Looks like Grossman started today after all!  This is not a good football team...WRs can't catch the ball consistently, running game is suspect. Green Bay is going to win the conference. |
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Post by khalfie on Sept 30, 2007 13:30:05 GMT -6
Hold on now... It takes time for an old car to start running... we have to give Griese a couple of quarters... Looks to me, he has enough upside, to offset those bad decisions in the RED Zone...  Paging Kyle Orton... paging Kyle Orton. |
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Post by wildcat on Sept 30, 2007 13:39:33 GMT -6
Devin Hester...Wow...Just WOW!
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Post by wildcat on Sept 30, 2007 16:02:52 GMT -6
No way the Bears should have lost this game...they got plays, field position, and points from the special teams and the defense was more than good enough to beat the Lions.
The offense...terrible! All we heard during the week was what a great "game manager" Brian Greise was...that he was not going to make great plays, but he wasn't going to put your team in a position to lose. Well, that is EXACTLY what he did with those picks down by the goal line. Granted, he didn't get a lot of help from his receivers when they dropped the football or with a nonexistant running game in the first half, but those are both issues Grossman had to deal with the first 2 games, as well. All Greise had to do today was not be Rex Grossman but he couldn't even step over that low of a bar.
Look..I know the guy hasn't played much in the last 2 years (and heck, his QB rating is probably STILL higher than Grossman's) and he deserves a few games to get his feet under him, but I think he showed exactly why he has been released by 3 NFL teams.
I don't blame Greise, Grossman, or even Lovie Smith...blame HAS to go to the Bears' front office for not making some kind of a move this offseason to bring in a competent backup who could hold a clipboard until Grossman imploded. The Bears didn't do that and now they are in trouble.
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Post by tigercoach on Sept 30, 2007 16:54:22 GMT -6
We want Ditka!
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Post by cutty on Sept 30, 2007 17:51:29 GMT -6
Go Lions!!
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Post by deaux68 on Oct 1, 2007 7:50:25 GMT -6
Why throw the ball 50 times with that defense?
Although they are missing some guys they are still better than average on defense and way less than average on offense. Run the ball.
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 7:55:44 GMT -6
I guess this could be used as a case for "Coaching matters", because regardless, the coaches HAVE to win....how do you do that with 8 starters out?
Same scheme..........same coaches.........players changed........different result.
Some could argue that coaching matters, because how do you 'correct' Grossman?
I just don't see the logic I've seen that because Griese was not good, that somehow makes Grossman 'better'.....
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Post by tripleoption61 on Oct 1, 2007 8:01:26 GMT -6
Line hester up in the backfield and throw some of those swing passes out of the backfield. also WHY DID WE DRAFT OLSON AND NOT USE HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 1, 2007 8:04:11 GMT -6
Upon further review, the Bears still suck!
Seriously, Green Bay has the defense this season...Chicago is injured pretty bad. NFL is all about injuries, it really is.
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Post by khalfie on Oct 1, 2007 9:48:44 GMT -6
No way the Bears should have lost this game...they got plays, field position, and points from the special teams and the defense was more than good enough to beat the Lions. The offense...terrible! All we heard during the week was what a great "game manager" Brian Greise was...that he was not going to make great plays, but he wasn't going to put your team in a position to lose. Well, that is EXACTLY what he did with those picks down by the goal line. Granted, he didn't get a lot of help from his receivers when they dropped the football or with a nonexistant running game in the first half, but those are both issues Grossman had to deal with the first 2 games, as well. All Greise had to do today was not be Rex Grossman but he couldn't even step over that low of a bar. Look..I know the guy hasn't played much in the last 2 years (and heck, his QB rating is probably STILL higher than Grossman's) and he deserves a few games to get his feet under him, but I think he showed exactly why he has been released by 3 NFL teams. I don't blame Greise, Grossman, or even Lovie Smith...blame HAS to go to the Bears' front office for not making some kind of a move this offseason to bring in a competent backup who could hold a clipboard until Grossman imploded. The Bears didn't do that and now they are in trouble. Oh just stop it! The Bears didn't look that bad... things aren't that bad... and I saw many positives for us to build upon. 1. Had the lead going into the 4th quarter... without a runnng game, and blowing a couple of opportunities in the REd zone. 2. Griese is a huge improvement over Grossman! Gross 45 comp Percen Griese 65 comp percen Gross 120 yds per game Griese 220 yds per game Gross 1 td 6 int Griese 2 td 3 int All of this with Griese riding the pine for the past 2 years, no significant practice time, and called into action on the road... Moreso, if the WR's don't drop umpteen passes, we convert several more 3rd downs, and the defense aren't left on the field the entire game. Get off the ledges, stop cutting your wrists... the Bears will be all right... I guarantee, it won't get any worse! |
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 9:55:05 GMT -6
does anyone know why the Bears are so insistent on forcing the ball downfield?
I mean, part of Grossman's dilema was that his completion percentage was consistently horrible - the (possession of ) ball is what matters....why not take shorter throws (to the backs)?
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Post by khalfie on Oct 1, 2007 10:13:12 GMT -6
does anyone know why the Bears are so insistent on forcing the ball downfield? I mean, part of Grossman's dilema was that his completion percentage was consistently horrible - the (possession of ) ball is what matters....why not take shorter throws (to the backs)? I'd have to say its the lack of running game... Cedric B. is not getting it done. Adrian Pete and the little guy, don't even make the roster for 50% of the rest of the league. With our defense... or what used to be our defense, we put up a couple of points and we win the game... a couple of home runs used to be able to get it done... but now, we have to move the sticks, control the clock, protect our def somewhat... And Turner just doesn't get it. If anything is wrong in Chicago... its the play calling. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 10:45:54 GMT -6
If anything is wrong in Chicago... its the play calling. not execution? what play should they call? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 1, 2007 11:57:09 GMT -6
brophy..don't you know it is ALWAYS the playcalling. Duh.
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 12:11:03 GMT -6
it reminds me of a story from Ed Sabol (NFL Films) when asked by a news producer why they used reel after reel of film to cover a game, "Why don't you guys just film the touchdown plays?"
how many times have you called a 'perfect call' in a game that would work great on a down & distance or against what your opponent is lining up in.......only to have it blown by crappy execution?
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Post by khalfie on Oct 1, 2007 13:21:11 GMT -6
it reminds me of a story from Ed Sabol (NFL Films) when asked by a news producer why they used reel after reel of film to cover a game, "Why don't you guys just film the touchdown plays?"
how many times have you called a 'perfect call' in a game that would work great on a down & distance or against what your opponent is lining up in.......only to have it blown by crappy execution?
Execution is the gimmie... But you can't act like there's not another team across the LOS... Good teams dictate the type of game... Bad teams have to adjust to what the better team is doing... Bears were playing an attacking aggressive front, that brought a ton of pressure... What do you do? Call max pro and looked to your best WR? Well what if he's not as good as the defender covering him? Screen and draw your way out of pressure? Well what if your back is big expensive piece of crap? Invite the pressure and play the quick game? All I'm saying... is when the power running game was ineffective... Turner had no plan B... No Spread to slow down the pressure... no screens... nothing but power running and bombs... That's all I'm sayin! |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 1, 2007 13:37:47 GMT -6
Khalfie--Just my two cents...but you sound somewhat like a fan in the stands, one of those guys/gals who think YOU (you being the avg joe H.S. coach on friday nights, not YOU personally) don't get it.
Those are the types that have this mindset: If a certain play didn't work, then some other play WOULD have worked in that situation. As if football was a multiple choice exam,and If you picked A and it was incorrect, then obviously, the "correct" play would have been B, C, or D.
So they see inept offense as a playcalling issue, because the coach obviously isn't picking the play that "would be working"
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50Murf
Sophomore Member
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Post by 50Murf on Oct 1, 2007 13:52:14 GMT -6
The Bears blew it when they let Thomas Jones go - he was the key to the offense, and IMO, the key to Grossman playing better.
I do not know who is a better runner, Cedric Benson or Thomas Jones, but I do know who the better football player is. Jones, hands down. He blocked, knew the Offense inside and out, and he did all the little things that seem to get overlooked.
Even if they did get Hester the ball all the time on the offensive side - he stills has to run behind the oldest and one of the worst lines in football.
The Bears suck now, IMO, because the GM failed them in the draft, in free agency, and in evaluating his own players. Garrett Wolfe is a hell of a player, no doubt about that; but he IS NOT a third round draft pick, not for the Bears, and not for any NFL team.
It will be a long year here in Chicago....
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Post by khalfie on Oct 2, 2007 0:01:37 GMT -6
Khalfie--Just my two cents...but you sound somewhat like a fan in the stands, one of those guys/gals who think YOU (you being the avg joe H.S. coach on friday nights, not YOU personally) don't get it. Those are the types that have this mindset: If a certain play didn't work, then some other play WOULD have worked in that situation. As if football was a multiple choice exam,and If you picked A and it was incorrect, then obviously, the "correct" play would have been B, C, or D. So they see inept offense as a playcalling issue, because the coach obviously isn't picking the play that "would be working" Guilty as charged... These are professionals... been playing the game their entire lives... was great just last year... now all of a sudden, they can't execute an Iso? Have trouble with the blast? QB just can't read the corner in the cover 2? I call BS... at the highest level of the game, where they practice 40+ hours a week, plus film, and individual position sessions... and you want to blame it on execution? Ok... lets say I'm wrong... and it is execution... how do you properly execute an Iso against a 9 man front? How do you properly run 7 step pass routes against an agressive attacking defense? I'm just saying... if any play works when properly executed... why ever have more than one play... just line up and run QB sneak every down... Not everyone in the stands is an idiot... there's something to schemes and strategies... that's why they have so many of them. In all due respect... of course. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2007 5:51:09 GMT -6
I'm all about placing blame where it belongs, but the parrotting line of "the coordinator called the wrong play" has an irritating and self-righteous ring to me.
For the life of me, I don't understand why, with question marks at QB for decades, they never worked more on quick game stuff. I think 'screens' were outlawed in Chicago since Crowton left.
The fans and sports writers are fickle - you're talking about a city that embraces Jay Marriotti and Mike North, c'mon, here.........I'm not sayin', I'm jes sayin'
Throw one pass in Chicago and the fans crap the bed........."power running......anything less than 50 carries is ridiculous......Anthony 35/32 Benson needs 30 carries to warm up."
But, hey, what do I know......I was a big Terry Shea fan.......but in a year when you matched 1/3 of your offense in penalty yards......whatcha gonna do?
At what point do you concede that the other team just beat you? They out-prepared you?
I don't know how Harry Heistand can go from being savior one year to goat the next with the same personnel.
NFL are professionals.........sure, I get that.......they have all this time, so they should be never be 'off'...........explain David Terrell, Mike Haynes, Rex Grossman, Mushin Muhammad, Phillip Daniels, RW McQuarters, Alex Brown, Olin Kreutz, Kordell Stewart, Dez Clark.......I mean, god love them, but those guys haven't always been the model of realizing your potential with perfect execution over the years.
Regardless of the scheme or play, if you can't catch the ball when it hits you in the hands......when you can't make a block when a guy is standing right in front of you, when you can't get OFF a block when only matched up with one lineman, when you can't stop one ball thrown your way all game.......................no scheme can cover that up
If you watch any team consistently every Sunday ("your" team) no matter who is calling plays, it will LOOK predictable to YOU. Why? Because that is the team you are ALWAYS watching. A familiarity has developed for you as the watcher. Of course you know what is coming next, you watch THIS team every week.
Part of the "I knew they would run that play" has to do with .......
RUN/PASS.........that is about as far as some fans definition of plays goes. Inside zone, inside zone with lead, trap, power, etc.....most fans just see that as "oh, they ran on 1st down.....how predictable"...never making a distinction.
I feel like an old man, anymore, because the NFL is so tired and contrived. God bless the professionals that work in it, but the athlete-worship and incessant sports-reporter BS has completely turned me off on the game. Sean Payton's creativity last year was about the only thing saving it for me, personally.
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Post by khalfie on Oct 2, 2007 7:08:16 GMT -6
I can agree with a lot of that... But you didn't start off that reasonable.  |
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2007 7:22:14 GMT -6
Although I have given up my 'bears card' for years, I never get tired of listening to OB & Buffone after a good ole Bears loss on Sunday..... The coordinators come out of the woodwork, some of them sober...................and they sound a LOT like the
"See, what Ran Turnah needs tah do ish......line up dat Pedersan kid in de backfield wit Benson, wit da fullback, an' han' off to the man, the myth, the legend.....Devin Hestaaaaaah.
Yeah, I rememba in '85....................  "[/font][/size] |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 2, 2007 7:30:56 GMT -6
[quote author=khalfie board=general thread=1191178759 post=1191304897
Guilty as charged...
I call BS... at the highest level of the game, where they practice 40+ hours a week, plus film, and individual position sessions... and you want to blame it on execution?
[/quote]
And the flip side---With over 60-80 hours a week in game prep and planning...the most exhaustive tendency breakdown you can imagine, probably over 100 years combined coaching experience on the staff...and you think they are "just calling the wrong plays"
And Ironically Brophy--Sean's creativity is getting BLASTED this year, and of course "play calling" is being brought up as one of the factors in the Saint's 0-3 start.
As far as the familiarity aspect--that is SO true in all levels, especially H.S. That is why playcalling is probably the biggest "fan" critique at H.S games where the offense isn't performing.
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Post by khalfie on Oct 7, 2007 20:58:32 GMT -6
[quote author=khalfie board=general thread=1191178759 post=1191304897 Guilty as charged... I call BS... at the highest level of the game, where they practice 40+ hours a week, plus film, and individual position sessions... and you want to blame it on execution? And the flip side---With over 60-80 hours a week in game prep and planning...the most exhaustive tendency breakdown you can imagine, probably over 100 years combined coaching experience on the staff...and you think they are "just calling the wrong plays" And Ironically Brophy--Sean's creativity is getting BLASTED this year, and of course "play calling" is being brought up as one of the factors in the Saint's 0-3 start. As far as the familiarity aspect--that is SO true in all levels, especially H.S. That is why playcalling is probably the biggest "fan" critique at H.S games where the offense isn't performing. [/quote] Are you watching? THis is exactly what I'm talking about... we've tried running the ball on 3rd and 6+ on the last 4 3rd downs... haven't fooled a soul. Getting descent pass protection WR's aren't getting open, but the backs out the backfield have been nice... And can someone tell me what C. Benson has done wrong... because I can't stand the kid and his soft shoe running! Give me the tiny kid from Northern! |
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Post by khalfie on Oct 7, 2007 21:46:44 GMT -6
Looking for some apologies...
From you Bear Haters...
Who's first?
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Post by wildcat on Oct 7, 2007 21:49:47 GMT -6
brophy -
You get the "Post of the Night" award for the Mike North reference...he is the ULTIMATE Chicago meathead...
"Dis is what da Bearz need to do...deh need to bring back da Coach...yeah, dat's right...deh need to bring back Ditka and run da ball like deh did back in da day. Ya know whadda mean?"
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Post by wildcat on Oct 7, 2007 21:50:35 GMT -6
Looking for some apologies... From you Bear Haters... Who's first? Admit it...you were just A LITTLE nervous when Favre had the ball with 1:30 left... |
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50Murf
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
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Post by 50Murf on Oct 7, 2007 21:56:41 GMT -6
Just a little bit....man I thought that last throw in the end zone was going to be a TD....
PHEW
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Post by khalfie on Oct 7, 2007 22:02:48 GMT -6
Looking for some apologies... From you Bear Haters... Who's first? Admit it...you were just A LITTLE nervous when Favre had the ball with 1:30 left... Nope... I was not a LITTLE nervous... I was a lotta nervous... I'm yelling knock it down... but if they would have done that, Favre would have gotten another shot... I knew it wouldn't be easy... but I knew GRIESE would get the job done. ;D Week 2... so far so good! |
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