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Post by toprowguy on Dec 9, 2005 19:54:42 GMT -6
Looking for some ideas of filming of games. Would like to know what you use and how you use it. Like do you cut it up on your own or does someone else do it for you. Here is what we do.
Currently we have a company film the sideline and endzone view.
Then they cut it up ODK and interweave it with EZ and SL views.
We pick it up Saturday morning after a Friday Night Game.
The problem I have is that we supply them with a digital camera to film the EZ view but they use a regular camera to film the sideline view and on film you can tell the difference in quality.
The other problem is that we also have a video editing system at school that we really don't use until after the season for highlight films and self scouting.
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 21:46:06 GMT -6
we digitally film a wide press box view, a tight press box view, and an end zone view. we have 2 coaches that do this (the press box cameras operate together off of one switch). they upload the digital film to our computer database immediately after the game. the game is sectioned (cut) into individual plays because it is filmed digitally (the computer recognizes each play individually). after all 3 games are uploaded(all uploaded simultaneously - we have a networked system) one coach ODK's all 3 angles together (matches the wide, with the tight, with the endzone). then, he makes an offensive tape and a defensive tape. offensive tape is checkerboarded wide then end zone. defense is checkerboarded wide/tight (i think that's how they look at it). whole process takes less than hour & half.... (45-50 minutes to upload the 3 games; 25 minutes or so to ODK; start the 2 tapes recording & leave)
we use the DSV system. it is awesome. info to you guys that are worried about dsv's pricing. they will have a stripped down version (basically a "suped" up ODK program) for the next season. check out their web site first of january for announcement.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 22:33:56 GMT -6
tell me more Huey... i am working on the admin and boosters to get me the ability to do this too
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 9, 2005 22:54:53 GMT -6
When you say upload what do you mean.
We go from tape to our computer system which cuts the quality.
Do you go from tape to computer? or
Do you go from DVD to computer? or
Do you go from data file to computer? or
Do you go from camera to computer? or
Sorry for the questions but trying to figure out what we should do.
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 22:55:10 GMT -6
we bought some reasonably priced digital cameras. not the most expensive ones, but not the cheapos either. we use the dsv editing system. we have a networked system (3 computer system) where up to 3 films can be uploaded & edited at the same time. dsv can be rather pricey, especially for smaller schools. they have just developed a slimmed down version mainly for cutting video into run, pass, etc.....haven't seen it, just heard about it.
anyway, we have 2 coaches responsible for filming the game. at the end of the game, they bring the cameras into the offices and hook one up to each of the computers. they upload the film onto the computer. the files (views) are then placed in as one game with 3 angles. they ODK the film, meaning each clip is coupled with it's compliment on the other angles. at this point, these 3 angles are always tied to each other, meaning, if i want to look at all offensive clips, i wll get all 3 angles at the click of a button. then, they make tapes for us to watch the next morning. they output the tapes to be checkerboarded - first angle of the play is the wide, then the end zone shot of the same play is shown, etc. it is very simple and efficient...takes 2 hours on a long night.
you guys really need to look into the dsv thing. especially the new "ODK only" version for 2006. not sure of price but am hearing less than $2000
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 22:58:55 GMT -6
we use digital film and a digital editing system....we lose no quality whatsoever.
dsv includes a converter box with each system. it takes analog video (vhs tapes) and converts them to a digital image that can be manipulated as a digital file. an analog video image is less quality but the conversion process allows manipulation as if digital and the quality does not decrease with more copies being made like vhs tapes.
each play is automatically broken into its own play. this is done during the upload process. if you are using digital tape you don't even have to be at the computer when this is done. this is so much better than the wiffletree type programs where you have to do the "start & stops" for every single angle.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 23:12:24 GMT -6
huey, our boosters raise almost 40k a year for us, so I think i could get them to buy into it should they understand the need
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 23:22:21 GMT -6
at previous school they bought a 5 workstation system. the big seller was the ease at which it was to make highlight tapes for recruiters. with the compete dsv system, pulling up any clip is a matter of seconds. i made all college highlight tapes with a few days this year.
the efficiency this system provides is amazing. we can get so specific with our printed reports as well as specific AND IMMEDIATE cutups of anything we want. look into it. once they see how advanced and easy not to mention BENEFICIAL they will be sold. the company is very flexible and sets up the most affordable system for your needs and capabilities. my advice is to get a rep out to demo the whole system. have some of the "money" guys present as well as the head coach and all coaches. the more that are pushing for it, the better chance of getting it to go over.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 23:37:46 GMT -6
they bought a Landro system 2 yrs ago...so it might be a tough sell, but if it helps my players get noticed and allows us get more efficient use of our time then I am all for it
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 23:43:06 GMT -6
this thing blows away landro.
yes, i'm "pushing" this system. but, only because i've used it since it's inception and i've seen the difference it makes. i've used several other systems before and this is by far....BY FAR...the best out there. i get no kick backs for pushing this system....merely believe in it's benefits. demo it for yourself and i'm 100% positive you'll feel the same way.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 23:43:17 GMT -6
huey-
what digital cameras did you purchase? and what end zone system do you use?
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 23:45:24 GMT -6
we just bought some garden variety digital cameras from best buy (maybe circuit city, can't remember). they weren't the "top of the line" models but weren't bottom of barrel either. just the basic camera. not sure what type of tripod we use for end zone filming.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 23:50:21 GMT -6
so you dont get your end zone camera up higher?
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 23:52:24 GMT -6
yeah, it is on one of those wind up end zone "poles"...i just call it a tripod but it is one of those with the wheels and telescopes up/down to get the camera up high.
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 9, 2005 23:56:09 GMT -6
We rent a lift for the season to use as our base for the endzone, away games, and to film practice from it.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 9, 2005 23:57:36 GMT -6
you take a lift with you on away games?
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 9, 2005 23:59:04 GMT -6
our telescoping pole is very transportable. we take it to every game. use it occasionally for practices too. (to film segments not near one of our towers)
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Post by saintrad on Dec 10, 2005 0:03:26 GMT -6
end zone video systems has a dual camera tripod set up...but its not shown on their website
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Post by bulldog on Dec 10, 2005 1:55:02 GMT -6
Great info Coach Huey.
We use a SkyHawk from US Video to film our endzone and it is a great system. It is a bit pricey, but they were great about letting us pay it off over 2 years. Most of the system we found were a Camcorder on a lift. They were fairly light and portable, but they lacked the durability and flexibility of the SkyHawk. Only the camera is in the head. The recorder is with the fim person, who sits at a table with a monitor and the pan, tilt, zoom unit. So when it is raining, our film person can be sitting in the snack bar keeping dry. In winds the SkyHawk has a really wide base, so it won't tip.
For our camera's we invested in a prosumer model - the Canon GL-2. They have 3 ccd's for imaging so the quality is great. The downside is we give our competition much better film than we get in return. You can read jersey numbers - no matter how bad the uniforms.
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 10, 2005 7:37:44 GMT -6
Yes we trailor it to games to get the endzone view.
We use to have to bring to all of our away games but now the other teams are starting to rent lifts.
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Post by tog on Dec 10, 2005 8:26:40 GMT -6
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 10, 2005 10:09:44 GMT -6
that's the brand we got, too.
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Post by Mav on Dec 12, 2005 12:41:26 GMT -6
For anyone interested in getting their feet wet with digital film editing at NO COST, check out ProSout video. Thye have a program where the NFL/NFL Players Assoc will donate the software to your school (~$4-5000 value). I know it sounds too good to be true, but I applied for it last year after demoing mostly all of the systems(Webb,DSV,LRS, etc) We received teh grant and used it this past season. It did everything we needed. Not as slick looking as some of the top tier(and expensive) systems but can do ALL the same things. I went with it because I figured if it was a piece of junk - No big deal - it's free. I know DSV is a major sponsor of this site so I hope they don't delete this message. Just trying to help out other coaches with tight budgets. (I heard about it on another discussion board just before purchasing last year) Let mw know if anyone has any questions.
Mav
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Post by tog on Dec 12, 2005 12:47:46 GMT -6
For anyone interested in getting their feet wet with digital film editing at NO COST, check out ProSout video. Thye have a program where the NFL/NFL Players Assoc will donate the software to your school (~$4-5000 value). I know it sounds too good to be true, but I applied for it last year after demoing mostly all of the systems(Webb,DSV,LRS, etc) We received teh grant and used it this past season. It did everything we needed. Not as slick looking as some of the top tier(and expensive) systems but can do ALL the same things. I went with it because I figured if it was a piece of junk - No big deal - it's free. I know DSV is a major sponsor of this site so I hope they don't delete this message. Just trying to help out other coaches with tight budgets. (I heard about it on another discussion board just before purchasing last year) Let mw know if anyone has any questions. Mav We won't delete it. I have never used DSV, but Huey is a believer in it and uses it. DSV is probably confident enough in the worth of their product to have people compare the two. The only "major" sponsor of this site is huey. |
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Post by ogie4 on Dec 12, 2005 13:02:01 GMT -6
For anyone interested in getting their feet wet with digital film editing at NO COST, check out ProSout video. Thye have a program where the NFL/NFL Players Assoc will donate the software to your school (~$4-5000 value). I know it sounds too good to be true, but I applied for it last year after demoing mostly all of the systems(Webb,DSV,LRS, etc) We received teh grant and used it this past season. It did everything we needed. Not as slick looking as some of the top tier(and expensive) systems but can do ALL the same things. I went with it because I figured if it was a piece of junk - No big deal - it's free. I know DSV is a major sponsor of this site so I hope they don't delete this message. Just trying to help out other coaches with tight budgets. (I heard about it on another discussion board just before purchasing last year) Let mw know if anyone has any questions. Mav I got the same software, compared to DSV and Sports Edit (coachcomm's program) it lacks the bells and whistles to make good hi-light tapes and cut-ups, no hit chart, it also takes more time to capture and log because it doesn't have the autocalculating features like the others do when your inputting. However its pros are that it has a good playbook maker on it, (it was more user friendly then playmaker pro.) And it does have all the spread sheet features and report options that DSV and SportsEdit has with the exception of the headings options, those were difficult to change. And The price is right.....Free For a more serious program, SportsEdit is awesome, The best overall package I have used, their tech support is second to none. DSV is well respected and has more options and tools then any of them, probably the most user friendly and multilpe use program out there right now. However, judging from several comments of coaches at schools that have it, Tech Support is lacking (sorry Huey, I know your loyal to them, just reporting other coaches experiences. They say if the tech support was better it would be the best tool and value on the market.) |
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Post by Mav on Dec 12, 2005 14:10:53 GMT -6
I'm curious what bells and whistles you're referring to. To make highlight/cutups all you need is the abilty to tag each clip with your desired data then retrieve it. DSV is limited to 5 'custom' fields -- ProScout is unlimited. For retrival, ProScout uses Microsoft Access, so you can query/retrieve any and all combos of information for highlight/cutups. A pretty cumbersome interface, but as stated before, the end result will be identical.
Also, it does have hit charts -- by all different formations and game situations. With ProScout the autocalculations are limited to down, distance and LOS.
IMHO - the Webb GameDay was the best product out there. It's a very mature product (because it's been out the longest) of the major players. If yo9u have the money, chck it out. SportsEdit is not CoachComms product. They're just a reseller(VAR) for XOS (who bought it from Pinnicle last year, when Pinnicle was reorgaizing their company and getting rid of non profit making subsidiaries)
DSV support is so bad because they don't have a dedicated support staff, they use the Sales guys to also support the product -- Keeps overhead down.
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Post by ogie4 on Dec 12, 2005 14:39:43 GMT -6
Your right, XOS is Pinnacle, Coachcomm was our seller and tech support contact so we call it Coachcomm's. I can't find the hit charts in Proscout, is it available in the free program? Did you have problems renaming the spread sheet categories with it?
That would explain why some DSV users are very satified and other really dissappointed.
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Post by Mav on Dec 12, 2005 14:51:26 GMT -6
The hit charts are - 'Master Run' for a general chart for all formations and 'Formation Runs POA Breakdown' for each formation (it has a pull down). Don't rename the fields, just make new ones, then add them to your filter. (works good for data entry and retrieval, but bad for reporting)
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 12, 2005 16:08:25 GMT -6
you guys are right about the tech support for dsv. i've made comments to them about this myself. they are working on this. the "problem" for them is the company exploded about a year & a half ago and they haven't been kept up with the increase by hiring more tech guys....they are developing cheaper "slimmed down" models to use and are hiring more tech guys in "strategic" locations to help with troubleshooting.
as with any, there will me concerns, pro's & con's. i know each of us will make an educated decision on what we purchase and how we use it. competition is great. that's what drives all producers to continue to update & improve their product.
as for "downplaying" dsv or "promoting" another program. i will NEVER discourage that. i am not affiliated with dsv in any fashion. and, if i were, i would still respect the opinion & posts of those on here. please, continue to post threads listing the pro's & con's of all the programs you have knowledge of. the more info we have, the better consumer choices we can make.
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Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2005 10:55:24 GMT -6
MAAAAAAN....you guys 'got it goood!'
Wow! We have been 'blessed' to have a parent film our games from the press box. In the past, we've had to get students to do it.
A certain assistant coach is also the video coordinator (me) and cuts up all the film and distributes a DVD copy for the HC, DC (me), DL coach, & OC and usually does the Soph film as well by 9am the next morning.
When we've been blessed with an assistant coach willing to go up in an endzone crow's nest, we'd (me) cut it up press box / endzone every play. (takes a while)
Next year, I'm doing everything on my home computer.
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