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Post by 33coach on Dec 4, 2015 15:06:38 GMT -6
7th and 8th grade. in a no weight room environment. and only 30-40 minutes a day to work on S&C. what would have the highest impact in terms of gaining strength.
currently we sled and do alot of basic medicine ball / box work, but i feel like there is something im missing - not a S&C expert by any means...
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2015 21:11:18 GMT -6
In season?
I'm always researching this. Have you looked at Bulgarian Bags? You can make your own. We have started to think we get better bang for buck working on speed training on form. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and I would be interested in hearing what anyone is doing. I get kids out of season two days a week.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 5, 2015 23:39:00 GMT -6
I would argue that it is pretty tough for athletes who are already in shape to develop strength without lifting weights. Just hard to create the overload necessary. You need to find ways to create resistance.
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Post by vince148 on Dec 6, 2015 16:41:45 GMT -6
Try a modified version of the Navy Seals PE. It's all bodyweight.
Pushups
Dips
Pullups
Squats
Lunges
Calf raises
Abs
It's all on youtube
Add in some jumps and sled work and you're good to go.
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Post by NC1974 on Dec 6, 2015 16:52:45 GMT -6
Based on my observations of our incoming frosh the past couple of years, many, if not most of them would benefit from a ton of the basics before they ever get under a bar. I had actually suggested to our HC that the incoming frosh start with all bodyweight stuff. and have to meet certain parameters before starting with weights. Maybe something like this:
-Push ups - 3 * 10 perfect technique
-Pull ups - I'm not sure what a good parameter for these would be as the little guys can already pump out several, while the big guys might not be able to do even one
-Some sort of bodyweight row either hanging from a bar in a rack or hanging from TRX type of thing - 3*10 with perfect form.
-Bodyweight Squats - 3*15 with perfect form i.e. parallel, weight in heels, flat back etc
-Lunges (front, back, side) - 3*10
-Variety of planks - may be be able to hold each position - front, each side, with perfect form for 60 sec.
I think there are upside and downsides to this idea. One obvious downside, is there are going to be some kids, who can already meet all of these standards, so what do we do with them? Well, since the OP doesn't have a weight room, I would suggest things like
Pushups > feet elevated pushups > Plyo pushups?
Pull ups > change up grip > negatives
Bodyweight rows > elevating feet
Bodyweight Squats > speed squats > squat jumps
Lunges > explosive/plyo > single leg squats
Planks > increase time
Coachd5085, while I agree with your statement that it's hard for kids who are already in pretty good shape to get stronger without weights, I find that most of our 7th and 8th graders and even most frosh are not at that point yet. Many of them need to work on that basic strength and body control. But that could obviously be different from school to school or even from year to year
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Post by vince148 on Jul 16, 2017 13:47:18 GMT -6
I know it's old, but I was playing around with this for myself this summer and wanted to pass along something that I've been playing around with. After 40 years of heavy lifting and competition, I decided, to the delight of my wife, to stop pushing the heavy squats, etc. At almost 60 years old, my body just doesn't recover like it did, even after light squats.
So, I started researching some bodyweight stuff and began reading about Herschel Walker and other bodyweight programs.
So here's something that I've been doing. It's a mix of hypertrophy, strength, and power training.
It is a couple of circuits.
Circuit A
1. Inverted rows
2. Back raises
3. Pushups
4. Squats or single leg movement (lunge/step-up/splits squat/single leg squat)
5. Sit-ups
6. Dips
Circuit B
1. Pull-ups
2. Single leg toe touch
3. Clapping pushup
4. Box Jumps
5. Hanging leg raise
6. Single arm pushup
Here's how the rep scheme works...
Circuit A: 10 reps each
Circuit B: 1 rep each
Circuit A: 9 reps each
Circuit B: 2 reps each
Circuit A: 8 reps each
Circuit B: 3 reps each
Circuit A: 7 reps each
Circuit B: 4 reps each
Circuit A: 6 reps each
Circuit B: 5 reps each
Take 20-30 seconds rest between each exercise
Take 45-60 seconds rest between each circuit
I also do kettlebells in this mix. For example, I do KB swings instead of back raises. I'll do legs with KBs. Instead of SL toe touches, I'll do double KB snatches. I'll also do single KB C&P where the one arm pushups are and move those to where the clapping pushups are.
It's really a nice refreshing workout. Took me anywhere from 45-60 minutes which is about all the time I want to be in the gym anymore. But I designed it with younger athletes in mind. Add in some speed work and it's good to go.
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Post by blb on Jul 16, 2017 14:15:10 GMT -6
45-60 minutes for YOU (one person).
How would that translate to training a team full of kids?
Also, what age group are you talking?
Are you doing Circuit A and B every day?
Even if not - you would have kids (during Circuit 'A', fo ex.) doing 40 reps total of each (six different) exercise?
Perhaps I misunderstood, or you need to explain better.
Otherwise I would say it's crazy and run off more kids than it would benefit. |
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Post by vince148 on Jul 16, 2017 15:20:48 GMT -6
45-60 minutes for YOU (one person).
How would that translate to training a team full of kids?
Also, what age group are you talking?
Are you doing Circuit A and B every day?
Even if not - you would have kids (during Circuit 'A', fo ex.) doing 40 reps total of each (six different) exercise?
Perhaps I misunderstood, or you need to explain better.
Otherwise I would say it's crazy and run off more kids than it would benefit. I don't see how time would be an issue. Most weight training programs I've seen seem to manage fairly well with 20-25 kids and get done in an hour or so. Most PE classes can do that. This could be at least 7th-9th grade, but can be scaled back for 5th/6th graders. No, not every day, but can be 2-3x a week. Circuit A and B are done in the same workout. How is that any different than a kid doing BP:3x10, Row:3x10, Press:3x10 Squat:3x10, Curl:3x10, Triceps pushsdowns:3x10? If that's the issue, start with lesser reps. For circuit A go 6-5-4, for circuit B, go 1-2-3. What I did was combine the idea of the Spartan 300 workout with something I read about in a prison workout sequence. They just used the same exercises for both rep schemes. I wanted the low reps to be more challenging and strength/power oriented while the higher reps were more hypertrophy oriented. |
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Post by silkyice on Jul 16, 2017 15:53:55 GMT -6
45-60 minutes for YOU (one person).
How would that translate to training a team full of kids?
Also, what age group are you talking?
Are you doing Circuit A and B every day?
Even if not - you would have kids (during Circuit 'A', fo ex.) doing 40 reps total of each (six different) exercise?
Perhaps I misunderstood, or you need to explain better.
Otherwise I would say it's crazy and run off more kids than it would benefit. I don't see how time would be an issue. Most weight training programs I've seen seem to manage fairly well with 20-25 kids and get done in an hour or so. Most PE classes can do that. This could be at least 7th-9th grade, but can be scaled back for 5th/6th graders. No, not every day, but can be 2-3x a week. Circuit A and B are done in the same workout. How is that any different than a kid doing BP:3x10, Row:3x10, Press:3x10 Squat:3x10, Curl:3x10, Triceps pushsdowns:3x10? If that's the issue, start with lesser reps. For circuit A go 6-5-4, for circuit B, go 1-2-3. What I did was combine the idea of the Spartan 300 workout with something I read about in a prison workout sequence. They just used the same exercises for both rep schemes. I wanted the low reps to be more challenging and strength/power oriented while the higher reps were more hypertrophy oriented. That is a ton of volume for in-season. |
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Post by blb on Jul 16, 2017 16:08:36 GMT -6
I don't see how time would be an issue. Most weight training programs I've seen seem to manage fairly well with 20-25 kids and get done in an hour or so. Most PE classes can do that. This could be at least 7th-9th grade, but can be scaled back for 5th/6th graders. No, not every day, but can be 2-3x a week. Circuit A and B are done in the same workout. How is that any different than a kid doing BP:3x10, Row:3x10, Press:3x10 Squat:3x10, Curl:3x10, Triceps pushsdowns:3x10? If that's the issue, start with lesser reps. For circuit A go 6-5-4, for circuit B, go 1-2-3. What I did was combine the idea of the Spartan 300 workout with something I read about in a prison workout sequence. They just used the same exercises for both rep schemes. I wanted the low reps to be more challenging and strength/power oriented while the higher reps were more hypertrophy oriented.
"Spartan 300" workout? A "prison workout" sequence?
Yikes.
Try that with your team and let us know how it works.
BTW I haven't seen a HS team doing 3x10 for each exercise in a strength training workout in over 30 years.
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Post by vince148 on Jul 16, 2017 18:03:31 GMT -6
I don't see how time would be an issue. Most weight training programs I've seen seem to manage fairly well with 20-25 kids and get done in an hour or so. Most PE classes can do that. This could be at least 7th-9th grade, but can be scaled back for 5th/6th graders. No, not every day, but can be 2-3x a week. Circuit A and B are done in the same workout. How is that any different than a kid doing BP:3x10, Row:3x10, Press:3x10 Squat:3x10, Curl:3x10, Triceps pushsdowns:3x10? If that's the issue, start with lesser reps. For circuit A go 6-5-4, for circuit B, go 1-2-3. What I did was combine the idea of the Spartan 300 workout with something I read about in a prison workout sequence. They just used the same exercises for both rep schemes. I wanted the low reps to be more challenging and strength/power oriented while the higher reps were more hypertrophy oriented. That is a ton of volume for in-season. In-season, do 4-3/1-2 reps twice a week. The other rep schemes are more off-season. |
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Post by coachfloyd on Jul 16, 2017 18:08:11 GMT -6
Here is what needs to happen but never will. They should be taught to squat with heels down, do 20 perfect push-ups, lunge, skip. Don't worry about being strong. Be able to move when you get to high school.
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Post by vince148 on Jul 16, 2017 18:08:27 GMT -6
I don't see how time would be an issue. Most weight training programs I've seen seem to manage fairly well with 20-25 kids and get done in an hour or so. Most PE classes can do that. This could be at least 7th-9th grade, but can be scaled back for 5th/6th graders. No, not every day, but can be 2-3x a week. Circuit A and B are done in the same workout. How is that any different than a kid doing BP:3x10, Row:3x10, Press:3x10 Squat:3x10, Curl:3x10, Triceps pushsdowns:3x10? If that's the issue, start with lesser reps. For circuit A go 6-5-4, for circuit B, go 1-2-3. What I did was combine the idea of the Spartan 300 workout with something I read about in a prison workout sequence. They just used the same exercises for both rep schemes. I wanted the low reps to be more challenging and strength/power oriented while the higher reps were more hypertrophy oriented.
"Spartan 300" workout? A "prison workout" sequence?
Yikes.
Try that with your team and let us know how it works.
BTW I haven't seen a HS team doing 3x10 for each exercise in a strength training workout in over 30 years.
If they're doing the usual periodization models (hypertrophy/strength/power), they probably are. |
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Post by blb on Jul 18, 2017 7:13:28 GMT -6
That is a ton of volume for in-season.
That's a ton of volume - 330 total reps per kid including 55 pushups - for any time.
He will have some bigger kids who can't do one Dip much less 40.
Going to add a lot of time to practice, too.
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