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Post by gregodagr8 on Dec 29, 2007 22:26:35 GMT -6
Yeah yeah 16-0 is a "Wonderful" achievement for an NFL team but before all the Patriots fans start talking about the BEST TEAM EVER just remember "It Don't Mean A Thing If You Ain't Got That Ring!" Win the SuperBowl or WHO really CARES? SuperBowl or Bust and I hope it's BUST!
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Post by kylem56 on Dec 29, 2007 22:29:58 GMT -6
I think its a great thing. I was never realy a Patriots fan but I just finished up Management Secrets of the New England Patriots: From Patsies to Triple Super Bowl Champs and now I do admire what they do. If ANYONE TAPED THIS GAME PLEASE PM ME I would like to trade for it
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 29, 2007 22:37:53 GMT -6
How about those X's and O's...
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Post by coach79 on Dec 30, 2007 1:58:11 GMT -6
I gotta give credit to the Patriots, even though I really don't like'em. *Golf Clap*
-Brett
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Dec 30, 2007 2:34:33 GMT -6
I give them credit as well.. A lot of people seem to hate them, but I can't seem to- outside of Moss I happen to find them a very likeable team..
Out of all of the recent great teams (49ers of the 80;s 85 Bears, JImmy Johnson's Cowboys, etc.,etc.) I give them a good shot against all of them except the Niners.. I think those '84 (?) Niners probably would have beaten them..
Would have been fun to watch Walsh X & O versus Belicheks defenses.. I wonder what kind of defense Bill B would have dialed up versus that great Niner O.. We've seen he's not afraid to go against common knowledge when devising his defensive game plans in the past..
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Post by wingtol on Dec 30, 2007 9:24:50 GMT -6
I am just upset that my Dolphins couldn't achieve their perfect season too and get the 0-16 record. Oh well there's always next year too look forward too when the Tuna is on the sidelines matching his wit against Billicheck next year
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 30, 2007 9:58:16 GMT -6
I am just upset that my Dolphins couldn't achieve their perfect season too and get the 0-16 record. Oh well there's always next year too look forward too when the Tuna is on the sidelines matching his wit against Billicheck next year Parcells has made it clear he is not interested in coaching again. Then again, with him you never know.
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Post by touchdowng on Dec 30, 2007 11:15:14 GMT -6
Alright - let's get back to the Patriots.
Dolphins can have their own post.
Patriots are a perfect example of that old saying: The harder we work, the luckier we get.
They work hard and work smart. Their HC only cares about one thing and the media isn't one of them. To me, that's refreshing. Probably why I've always liked Bobby Knight. He would have made a helleva FB coach.
C'mon, a 28 year old OC at the NFL level? Conventional wisdom would shoot that down in a hurry.
So...... I looked at the NE website last night and about 9 of their 11 coaches came from very humble football beginnings. Small colleges with no NFL experiences.
Bellicheck and Kraft don't seem bound to the NFL status quo of going with the big name guys. They hire guys who will fit within their system.
I know a guy who's son was a backup player under Bellichek. The boy said that Bellicheck is a genius. Period. Not just in his X's and O's but in getting everyone to buy in and with his teaching skills.
We (as coaches) should try to study this group as much as possible.
I'm a Seahawk fan (from Washington) and I love Holmgren but I am a huge admirer of the Pats and think Bellichek has something that others don't. Something that I don't think can be taken from reading about him. Something, you'd have to experience.
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trojan
Junior Member
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Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Dec 30, 2007 11:45:39 GMT -6
I found myself rooting against them early on (probably since I'm a Phins fan). Late in the season, I've been backing them. Every time they've been given an opportunity to be cocky or arrogant, they've spoken with class.
Team, Team, Team. That's what I see with them.
They deserve nothing but respect. And I hope they lose mightily to my Dolphins next year. :-)
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2007 13:36:08 GMT -6
YEAH..but...didn't they cheat? Didn't they violate a rule so blatantly that they received the biggest punishment and coaches fine in the history of the NFL?
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Post by airraider on Dec 30, 2007 13:44:49 GMT -6
YEAH..but...didn't they cheat? Didn't they violate a rule so blatantly that they received the biggest punishment and coaches fine in the history of the NFL? And didnt an act of "me" by Moss ultimately cost them a TD last night?
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Post by lionhart on Dec 30, 2007 14:06:01 GMT -6
tom brady is the greg maddux of the nfl. just doesnt seem to be the most physically gifted qb (did nayone see the clips of him from his combine???) but always makes good decisions and seems to be 100% prepared week in and week out. he doesnt throw the best long ball, is zero threat to run, doesnt seem to throw on the run very well... but the guy just gets it done.
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trojan
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Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Dec 30, 2007 14:13:50 GMT -6
YEAH..but...didn't they cheat? Didn't they violate a rule so blatantly that they received the biggest punishment and coaches fine in the history of the NFL? Yes.
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Post by tvt50 on Dec 30, 2007 14:18:26 GMT -6
lionheart,
good comparison about maddux and brady. I like that!
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Post by airraider on Dec 30, 2007 14:59:02 GMT -6
I still dont see these guys as being the greatest team of all time.
If they had a more dominant run game, then maybe..
But they really do not compare in my mind to the 49ers of the late 80's or the Cowboys of the early 90's..
Both of these teams had the great QB's and Receivers.. as well as good and great running backs.. and.. they played great defense..
If either by weather or the other team, there passing game was shut down.. what would they go to?
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Post by lionhart on Dec 30, 2007 15:07:14 GMT -6
considering where they will be playing their home playoff games... thats a great question airraider! should be interesting to see indy vs ne in a snow storm!! or jacksonville (coldest it gets down there is about 70) playing in ne. i actually think the vikings offense of 98(?) was better.... randall cunningham setting records throwing to moss/carter/reed and robert smith leading the nfc in rushing. they were the highest scoring offense in history until the rams overtook them i think.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2007 15:24:33 GMT -6
I still dont see these guys as being the greatest team of all time. If they had a more dominant run game, then maybe.. But they really do not compare in my mind to the 49ers of the late 80's or the Cowboys of the early 90's.. Both of these teams had the great QB's and Receivers.. as well as good and great running backs.. and.. they played great defense.. If either by weather or the other team, there passing game was shut down.. what would they go to? Dominant run game? Why try that if it isn't the most advantageous for you though? NE creates a lot of individual mismatch problems doing what they do, and THAT is what the NFL is all about.
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Post by airraider on Dec 30, 2007 15:38:40 GMT -6
I still dont see these guys as being the greatest team of all time. If they had a more dominant run game, then maybe.. But they really do not compare in my mind to the 49ers of the late 80's or the Cowboys of the early 90's.. Both of these teams had the great QB's and Receivers.. as well as good and great running backs.. and.. they played great defense.. If either by weather or the other team, there passing game was shut down.. what would they go to? Dominant run game? Why try that if it isn't the most advantageous for you though? NE creates a lot of individual mismatch problems doing what they do, and THAT is what the NFL is all about. The question still remains though, what if the passing game becomes less advantageous? Do they have a good enough run game to overcome the lack of success in the passing game? What if Brady got hurt?
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Post by touchdowng on Dec 30, 2007 16:34:28 GMT -6
It's arguable if they are the best team ever (in the regular season for now) but will have to win the Super Bowl before that can be argued fully.
Is it fair to say that they might be the most well coached NFL team ever? They do have a few rings, right?
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MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
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Post by MaineManiac on Dec 30, 2007 17:13:22 GMT -6
All good points boys and I would never, ever diminish the Super Bowl. Yet, it is just their 4th title (doesn't sound too exciting), but last night they became the first team ever to win all 16 regular season games and did so in the salary cap era for a team in a geographical area (not Miami, SF, or Dallas) that most don't want to spend the fall and winter.
I'd say their accomplishment has already achieved legendary status.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 30, 2007 17:20:56 GMT -6
I think what we all need to take from the Patriots success is the family orientation to their team.
These guys go out and play for each other and for their team. They play hard for the guy next to them and don't overly seek praise. Look at what the organization has done with Randy Moss; his attitude has done a full 180. I HATED Randy Moss before this season; now I can actually tolerate him. Bellichick has the guy playing balls-out for the team.
As coaches, we all have to take a good long look at what Bellichick has done to turn this group into a team.
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Post by airraider on Dec 30, 2007 18:07:52 GMT -6
You do have to give credit to a team who has 3 "old" LBs.. and still plays great defense.. I mean.. Brophy might could suit up for these guys..
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 30, 2007 18:13:34 GMT -6
... I mean.. Brophy might could suit up for these guys.. whoa ... put the bottle down and slowly back away ... haha i've only watched a handful of games and it seems their offense may be one of the best in recent memory. defensively, sometimes i wonder ... not scheme, but their players don't appear to be as physically gifted as others. however, they do play good defense. all in all, think they will be mentioned as one of the best of all time. don't know if anyone can ever quantify who is THE greatest. but, they've beaten some pretty good teams, division champs, conference top seeds, and playoff teams.
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Post by w22shadow on Dec 30, 2007 18:13:35 GMT -6
I am so tired of the hate and jealousy that has come along with the Patriots going undefeated.
How much do the '72 Dolphins run their mouths? Their schedule was weak and there were not salary caps and the free agency at that time.
The Patriots have refused to speak about the record for the majority of the season and I don't expect much boasting even if they win the Super Bowl. They are a classy organization and deserve all the praise they get.
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 30, 2007 18:18:47 GMT -6
'72 Dolphins Opponents' record: 70-108-4 Record vs. winning teams: 2-0
'07 Patriots Opponents' record: 94-90 Record vs. winning teams: 6-0
with a super bowl win, the pats record vs winning teams would increase to 9-0 and their opponent's overall record (win % of opponents) will also increase
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Post by w22shadow on Dec 30, 2007 18:26:01 GMT -6
All those five receiver sets are great. Aren't you a spread guy, Coach Huey?
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 30, 2007 20:13:01 GMT -6
The 1972 Dolphins also played in a 14 game season and ended up 17-0. I'm not a fan of the Pats, but wouldn't mind seeing them win it all just to shut up the Dolphins.
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Post by airraider on Dec 30, 2007 20:37:47 GMT -6
Im stil rooting for the Colts.. and I think they will them this time around.. unless of course they play in a home field blizzard..
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Post by coachjoe3 on Dec 31, 2007 0:41:49 GMT -6
Grew up in SE Massachusetts, so I hope no one gets any ideas like this.
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Post by tye2021 on Dec 31, 2007 9:22:30 GMT -6
1.) For one thing, its not the "Dolphins" that are rooting against the Pats. Its Mercury Morris speaking out. Don't group them all into one cartegory because of one or two guys who are apparently still living in the past.
2.) Classy teams don't video tape the other teams defensive hands signals.
That being said, what they have accomplished is nothing less than amazing. They have an aging defense (especially the lbers) that always seemed to make plays late in the game when you needed them to. And the offense is one of the best I've ever seen despite the lack of a running game. Tom Brady is making a case for consideration of Greatest QB of all time. And Bill Bellichick is also making a statement that he could very well be the greatest coach in NFL history. His ability to keep his team focused on taking one game at a time and the how he finds a way to motivate his players every week is phenominal.
Congrats to the Patriots team and the New England organization.
Now lets see how they play in the second season....... the playoffs.
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