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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 10:35:34 GMT -6
I need some help with how to handle a situation. I am the youngest coach on our staff but I have been with the team the longest and we have a new OC, who also happens to be the dean of students and is old buddies with the Super. Beginning of the year we looked great and had a real good shot at the district title but we suffered our first loss Friday and it is mainly due to the fact that we had a big player quit that day and it messed with our team. Our stud on D didn't have his head in the right place because he is upset because our stud on O quit because he doesn't like the OC. I know kids will be kids but it is starting to affect/effect (whichever one is correct) our team. The OC is very set in his way of how he wants to run the O but it doesn't work anymore and the kids are getting tired of it. I have tried talking to him about it but he is very reluctant to change. We have went from a powerhouse in our district to maybe not even making the playoffs. How do I handle this?
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Post by bigmoot on Sept 29, 2015 10:39:24 GMT -6
Do the job as an assistant you were hired to do.
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collier
Junior Member
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Post by collier on Sept 29, 2015 10:44:21 GMT -6
So, you looked great at the beginning of the year...had a "real good shot at the district title"... and lost your first game Friday because your best player quit...why is this the fault of your scheme/OC?
What makes you assume you won't make the playoffs after losing 1 game? Is this the OC's fault?
"How do I handle this?"...is it your problem to handle?
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Post by dubber on Sept 29, 2015 10:46:30 GMT -6
coachbone53,
You are probably not going to get a ton sympathy on this site.
Kids quitting on coaches are the kids' problem......to suggest a coaching change (of staff or philosophy) in order to keep a player happy will NEVER play in this online community.
Just in case you are wondering why a massive chit storm of criticism is coming your way......
Now, I get your concerns. It may seem like it is as easy as change this and this stud will play, etc.
But once you make 1 concession, you'll need to make a 1,000 more before it's all said and done.
You need to support your OC, and coach the guys that are there. That is all you can or need to do.
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 29, 2015 10:59:08 GMT -6
You don't respect the guy. If you did, then you wouldn't think that the way he is doing things "doesn't work anymore". Help him fix the offense by doing your job to the best of your ability or accept the fact that you are part of the problem. Who cares who the kids like? Kids will never like a coach who is a hard ass if there are other coaches on staff who are an alternative to that approach. Your best player on offense quit on the team, that's not the OC's fault. Your best player on defense mentally quit because his friend quit the team, that's not the OC's fault. If he's not good at his job, let your HC decide to fire him. Until then, pick up an oar and row in the same direction.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 29, 2015 11:05:25 GMT -6
Already been good responses in this thread, but I will say your youth shows in your post.
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Post by dytmook on Sept 29, 2015 11:07:16 GMT -6
How is the offense not working if you just suffered your first lost? There were enough points to win the previous games. Sounds like you aren't helping the situation by saying the offense doesn't work. If you aren't all in, the kids won't be either. They can tell if there is division too. Kids are never completely happy or better yet the parents are probably coaxing the kids to not like the guy.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 29, 2015 11:12:49 GMT -6
do your job, or quit.
dont lead the mutiny.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 29, 2015 11:13:17 GMT -6
Let me guess....the kids come to you to complain?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by realdawg on Sept 29, 2015 11:26:03 GMT -6
Not your job. Coach the kids. Leave the problems alone.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Sept 29, 2015 11:26:27 GMT -6
You have to stick with the coach. Do your job, let him do his. Can't have a divided staff.
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 11:52:13 GMT -6
I support the OC 100% but I don't understand why he runs the scheme he runs when we have more success running a different scheme. We run the same plays out of 2 different schemes. Scheme A works great as long as we don't get a house blitz like we are getting now. We barely skated by a team we should have easily beat and now everyone knows the kryptonite of Scheme A. Scheme B spreads the D out and gives us a better chance of getting yards and mismatches. Again, same plays just different formation. Yes I am young but I am not going to lead a mutiny. I'm not trying to change the whole O just to keep a kid from quitting. I'm just trying to get the OC to realize that we are more successful in B than we are in A. We run A 80% of the time and B only 20% and have more success in B than we do A. If it's working why not go with what works. Again, we already have scheme B in the play book and in the offense so why not adapt to the game and go with what works.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 29, 2015 11:55:25 GMT -6
I support the OC 100% but I don't understand why he runs the scheme he runs when we have more success running a different scheme. We run the same plays out of 2 different schemes. Scheme A works great as long as we don't get a house blitz like we are getting now. We barely skated by a team we should have easily beat and now everyone knows the kryptonite of Scheme A. Scheme B spreads the D out and gives us a better chance of getting yards and mismatches. Again, same plays just different formation. Yes I am young but I am not going to lead a mutiny. I'm not trying to change the whole O just to keep a kid from quitting. I'm just trying to get the OC to realize that we are more successful in B than we are in A. We run A 80% of the time and B only 20% and have more success in B than we do A. If it's working why not go with what works. Again, we already have scheme B in the play book and in the offense so why not adapt to the game and go with what works. so you have kids who will quit if you dont 'spread it out?'...i say let them quit. a player does not dictate what is run, no more then a student dictates what is taught, no more then what an employee dictates how his boss runs the ship. youngest coach on the staff? you probably have some learning to do in those departments as well.
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 12:01:21 GMT -6
I just don't understand how he doesn't see that we are more successful in B than A. Again we run the exact same plays just different formation. Everyone on our staff sees that B works 90% of the time and A works 40% of the time. Our HC has openly stated in meetings that B works better but yet during the game the OC still calls plays from A. We have a higher success rate in B than we do A but he stills goes with A.
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Post by natenator on Sept 29, 2015 12:05:54 GMT -6
As others have mentioned, it's not your problem. The HC has responsibility for this if it's an issue for him.
You need to either accept this and just do what you were asked to do or quit and move on like the players did.
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 29, 2015 12:08:25 GMT -6
Maybe you're more successful in B because the defense prepares for A using your 80:20 ratio. Maybe if you went to B 80:20, then A would be more successful because the defense would be geared up to stop B. Maybe your HC needs to quit being so chicken$hit and tell the OC to change his play calling if it's that big of an issue.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 29, 2015 12:11:56 GMT -6
Maybe you're more successful in B because the defense prepares for A using your 80:20 ratio. Maybe if you went to B 80:20, then A would be more successful because the defense would be geared up to stop B. Maybe your HC needs to quit being so chicken$hit and tell the OC to change his play calling if it's that big of an issue. That's what I think. Sure your curveball works now, but throw it every pitch and see how many people hit it. It took me a long time to learn this, but EVERY system is successful in HS football. If your not successful it's because your kids did not execute. Its not the system, it's not the play calling it's your kids
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 12:12:52 GMT -6
Thanks for the info nate and phillip. You 2 have given me the best advice so far.
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 12:21:52 GMT -6
What really blew my mind tho was after we beat one team the HC, who is also the DC, came up to me after the game and asked why we didn't run B more. He said "coach we knew you were gonna run A and we knew we could stop it or at least slow it down. But we also know you can run B as well and we were really scared of B more than A. I crunched the numbers and no matter what I threw at it you guys could run or throw it on us easily". Keep in mind tho that me and that HC are good buddy's and we bounce ideas off each other all the time. Am I just missing something here?
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Post by fshamrock on Sept 29, 2015 12:30:05 GMT -6
Over the course of your career you will run into other coaches that you don't respect or agree with, some of them will be (in your mind) complete idiots...gotta get past it. It's important that the coaching staff presents a united front, and the kids believe that you all have 100 percent confidence in the direction that the program is going. If the kids get an inkling from you that you think the OC sucks too (which seems to be the case since they talked to you about it) then the whole system falls apart. Consider this a learning experience.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 12:39:22 GMT -6
I need some help with how to handle a situation. I am the youngest coach on our staff but I have been with the team the longest and we have a new OC, who also happens to be the dean of students and is old buddies with the Super. Beginning of the year we looked great and had a real good shot at the district title but we suffered our first loss Friday and it is mainly due to the fact that we had a big player quit that day and it messed with our team. Our stud on D didn't have his head in the right place because he is upset because our stud on O quit because he doesn't like the OC. I know kids will be kids but it is starting to affect/effect (whichever one is correct) our team. The OC is very set in his way of how he wants to run the O but it doesn't work anymore and the kids are getting tired of it. I have tried talking to him about it but he is very reluctant to change. We have went from a powerhouse in our district to maybe not even making the playoffs. How do I handle this? You are in the wrong. Formation is not the problem. The latest fad is not the answer. Change the attitude, and in turn the attitude of your kids will change. Your oc may be problem, that is not your problem though. Fwiw scheme A can work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 12:41:14 GMT -6
I need some help with how to handle a situation. I am the youngest coach on our staff but I have been with the team the longest and we have a new OC, who also happens to be the dean of students and is old buddies with the Super. Beginning of the year we looked great and had a real good shot at the district title but we suffered our first loss Friday and it is mainly due to the fact that we had a big player quit that day and it messed with our team. Our stud on D didn't have his head in the right place because he is upset because our stud on O quit because he doesn't like the OC. I know kids will be kids but it is starting to affect/effect (whichever one is correct) our team. The OC is very set in his way of how he wants to run the O but it doesn't work anymore and the kids are getting tired of it. I have tried talking to him about it but he is very reluctant to change. We have went from a powerhouse in our district to maybe not even making the playoffs. How do I handle this? You don't. Do your job as best you can. Sounds like an unpleasant situation, but they happen a lot. I've been there, done that. Let it work itself out and keep yourself out of this mess to avoid alienating the rest of your staff and dividing people up. Don't say a word, one way or the other, unless pressed, and if you are pressed, give him your support. He may flat out suck and be a total prick, but your job is to work with him, not fix him or do his job for him. It's also entirely possible that he's a fine coach, just that you or the players don't understand or believe in what he's doing because it's different from what you are exposed to. Give him the benefit of the doubt, if possible, and back him just like you'd hope to be backed if you were in his shoes. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, but sometimes it's hard to fathom that. If a player quit over the scheme, that sounds like a player being selfish that it wasn't all about him. There's no good in siding with that kid, no matter how talented he is or how much the other players like him. Players come and go.
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 12:54:13 GMT -6
Thanks Coach Arnold for the advice. Here is the full story. OC from last year leaves during summer. Super calls up his buddy and asks if he wants the job. New OC comes in and asks me what we were doing last year and what we were planning to do. I gave him everything. Formations, schemes, players, adjustments, etc... So off we go with the same game plan from last year. Again, we run the exact same plays from last year and only include a couple new wrinkles. Nothing too extreme tho. We already have play X in the play book and we run it from Scheme A and Scheme B. The only difference is the formation. Blocking assignments, reads, and everything is the same just different formation. It gives us only 5 or 6 in the box instead of 8 or 9. It's easier to run play X out of formation B than to run it out of formation A. Again nothing changes except formation. Better results from B but he would rather run A.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 29, 2015 12:55:52 GMT -6
I need some help with how to handle a situation. I am the youngest coach on our staff but I have been with the team the longest and we have a new OC, who also happens to be the dean of students and is old buddies with the Super. Beginning of the year we looked great and had a real good shot at the district title but we suffered our first loss Friday and it is mainly due to the fact that we had a big player quit that day and it messed with our team. Our stud on D didn't have his head in the right place because he is upset because our stud on O quit because he doesn't like the OC. I know kids will be kids but it is starting to affect/effect (whichever one is correct) our team. The OC is very set in his way of how he wants to run the O but it doesn't work anymore and the kids are getting tired of it. I have tried talking to him about it but he is very reluctant to change. We have went from a powerhouse in our district to maybe not even making the playoffs. How do I handle this? Let me get this straight- You've lost one game and everyone, including you, is ready to throw the guy under a bus? I think you need to get out now because right now based on your responses to others, you're as big a part of the problem as the kids. It's not your job. If the HC doesn't deal with it, that's on him. Quit palling around with the kids and do your job.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 29, 2015 12:58:15 GMT -6
Thanks Coach Arnold for the advice. Here is the full story. OC from last year leaves during summer. Super calls up his buddy and asks if he wants the job. New OC comes in and asks me what we were doing last year and what we were planning to do. I gave him everything. Formations, schemes, players, adjustments, etc... So off we go with the same game plan from last year. Again, we run the exact same plays from last year and only include a couple new wrinkles. Nothing too extreme tho. We already have play X in the play book and we run it from Scheme A and Scheme B. The only difference is the formation. Blocking assignments, reads, and everything is the same just different formation. It gives us only 5 or 6 in the box instead of 8 or 9. It's easier to run play X out of formation B than to run it out of formation A. Again nothing changes except formation. Better results from B but he would rather run A. NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Do YOUR job.
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Post by coachbone53 on Sept 29, 2015 13:05:55 GMT -6
I do my job. I do everything I can for the team and school. I support the OC every step of the way. Do I like or approve of the step most of the time no but that doesn't mean I don't support him. What it boils down to is poor play calling and probably the HC not doing his job. Scheme A used to work until teams found our kryptonite. If OC wants to run A and get stuffed every time I will support him. But do I blab to the kids about it no. I tell them to believe in it and trust it and eventually it will work. Do I believe what I am telling my guys yes. We won't hit a home run every play but every once in a while we will get one. But I also believe in taking advantage of something that will work. Same play different formation.
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Post by fantom on Sept 29, 2015 13:08:03 GMT -6
There are some things in our offense that I don't love. In fact that's probably been true every year. The kids will never know, though.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 29, 2015 16:18:46 GMT -6
To the OP, You have said several times in this thread you completely support the OC. I'd have to say your post's totally contradict that. Im curious to what things you do to support him.
I agree with the others....you are worrying about this way too much. It's a HC's issue. When the players complain to you, you need to answer them as if you're the HC. End it immediately.
We all were kids once. Many of us wished we ran a different offense in HS. We'd bitch to our friends, but to quit over it? Just crazy to me. Not the kids you'd want anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 10:18:52 GMT -6
I'm sorry, but I don't see why preferring to run a play out of one formation instead of another, having a selfish player quit (there was probably much more to it than we're being told or than the OP knows), and losing 1 game means a coach should be fired. Ease up on the panic button.
That the OC is the super's buddy and was placed there by the super puts the HC in a tough spot here, so I sympathize with him if there are problems, but this is something the OP, as an assistant coach, just needs to roll with. Support him as best you can. At the very least, don't throw him under the bus.
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 30, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -6
Another thing to think about ... What do you want the super's buddy to say about you the next time they grab a beer? Don't kiss his ass, but make sure you do your job to the utmost of your ability and that finger won't swing your way when it comes to finger pointing season.
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