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Post by Coach.A on Aug 19, 2015 17:13:41 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Aug 19, 2015 18:56:31 GMT -6
I don't really have any thoughts. We haven't done the drill in years. We just don't think that it''s an efficient use of time.
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Post by agap on Aug 19, 2015 19:34:40 GMT -6
Technique could be an emphasis when doing the Oklahoma Drill, but most times I've seen it done, nobody was using the right technique. Then I think it's pretty pointless.
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Post by NC1974 on Aug 19, 2015 19:45:37 GMT -6
In most defenses I've seen, you're not asking a DL to straight up stone a guy and two gap it. Nor are most OL expected to straight up drive a guys 3-4 yds back. So as others have mentioned, I don't think this drill helps players understand things like gap responsibility, hat placement etc. I think a half line drill would be much more productive.
Now in terms of using it as a straight up "who is the bigger bad a$$", I suppose it might do the job. But I definitely wouldn't be doing this with youth or probably even frosh/soph. I think drills like this at the younger levels cause kids to quit before they have a had chance to develop some confidence and technique.
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Post by fantom on Aug 19, 2015 19:57:30 GMT -6
In most defenses I've seen, you're not asking a DL to straight up stone a guy and two gap it. Nor are most OL expected to straight up drive a guys 3-4 yds back. So as others have mentioned, I don't think this drill helps players understand things like gap responsibility, hat placement etc. I think a half line drill would be much more productive. Now in terms of using it as a straight up "who is the bigger bad a$$", I suppose it might do the job. But I definitely wouldn't be doing this with youth or probably even frosh/soph. I think drills like this at the younger levels cause kids to quit before they have a had chance to develop some confidence and technique. For years we used to do Oklahoma and other "toughness" drills on the first day of pads. Then, one year when we were meeting to plan the first week of practice, out of the blue the HC asked if we thought we were gaining anything out of it. It was like he'd read our minds. The assistants all said, simultaneously, "No". There just weren't any surprises. The guys who we thought were tough were and the guys who we didn't think were tough weren't. We started making it just another practice day. If I was a college coach and wanted to find out if the pups would bite I'd do it once or twice. If I was a pro coach and needed to find out who had a chance to make the roster I'd do it. In HS, it's not worth the time, IMO.
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Post by mariner42 on Aug 19, 2015 20:06:27 GMT -6
We do stuff that's sort of similar, but it's more to add physicality into our practice and create an atmosphere for kids to perform.
You also start to sort out kids who might be champs in drills and disappear in more game like situations.
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Post by coachg13 on Aug 19, 2015 20:27:47 GMT -6
We never base block, like ever. Never would expect one of our guys to do that. SO we use half-line for this. Go good and good full tilt and run your stuff. D has an advantage bc they know which way ball is going. I like that as the OL coach bc it puts a magnifying glass on our rules/technique. We build our half-lines up to be the biggest thing in the world. Surround the guys and everything. Looks just like the image of an Oklahoma in your mind, just way more productive in my opinion.
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Post by 42falcon on Aug 19, 2015 22:06:30 GMT -6
We still do this drill. It's basic fundamentals: -blocking -block shed -running the ball -tackling
We limit the distance apart 5 yards. Our guys on D work pad level 1/2 man squeeze the gap. On O we work on drive block or reach.
The toughness piece I agree with I know who's tough before we get into the drill. But for kids who are learning the game this is a controlled setting with limited variables where they can employ the techniques they have learned & develop aggressiveness & confidence.
Guys we are not Neanderthals here who think it's Friday night tykes. There is a rationale behind what we do. These drills were & are great the reason for them should be technical. Toughness is developed in the off season & in part to the will & heart an individual has.
The notion of impact is real. It's why we do the things we do to mitigate the impact on kids heads. Our data has shown it's making a difference in safety.
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Post by 33coach on Aug 19, 2015 22:10:28 GMT -6
I like Oklahoma style drills for linebackers (2 on 1 - shed and tackle) but our DL spend more time avoiding blocks then driving and 2 gapping
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Post by Coach.A on Aug 19, 2015 22:34:36 GMT -6
We maybe do the drill a couple times all season. I only like the version where the offense outnumbers the defense, for example: RB and OL versus DL
The collisions can get risky when you have an equal number of offensive players versus defensive players because you'll have a defender that is unblocked who is basically tee'ing off on the RB (e.g. RB and OL versus DL and LB).
When you watch the second video, it seems like all the dangerous collisions are happening when the drill is run with an equal number of offensive and defensive players.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Aug 20, 2015 8:11:22 GMT -6
In youth league, this is pointless.
I think too many of the people who are guilty of using this frequently, are the old guys who think football has gone soft and if it's not double tight bone, it's a fad. Even looking at Facebook comments, people are very quick to defend it. CUZ HIDDIN MAKES EM UH MAN!
I've seen kids get absolutely get rocked, get a concussion and miss some major time. I don't think there is a lot to be gained from the drill, other than seeing who wants to hit. But as I've seen plenty of blog posts about before, sane people don't really love contact. I mean, the kids I know who love to just go out and bang heads for 2 hours are the kids I feel guilty about releasing on society once they graduate, because they're basically cavemen.
If you're going to use it, I like to have RB, OL and DL. Adding in a LB to the mix tends to get way more free hits, and that's just not an accurate representation of the game.
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Post by 33coach on Aug 20, 2015 8:20:20 GMT -6
In youth league, this is pointless. I think too many of the people who are guilty of using this frequently, are the old guys who think football has gone soft and if it's not double tight bone, it's a fad. Even looking at Facebook comments, people are very quick to defend it. CUZ HIDDIN MAKES EM UH MAN! I've seen kids get absolutely get rocked, get a concussion and miss some major time. I don't think there is a lot to be gained from the drill, other than seeing who wants to hit. But as I've seen plenty of blog posts about before, sane people don't really love contact. I mean, the kids I know who love to just go out and bang heads for 2 hours are the kids I feel guilty about releasing on society once they graduate, because they're basically cavemen. If you're going to use it, I like to have RB, OL and DL. Adding in a LB to the mix tends to get way more free hits, and that's just not an accurate representation of the game. I agree 100%. For us, we always go 2 on 1 if we do it at all... 2 on 2 doesn't exist in football. No one gets a free shot.
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Post by blb on Aug 20, 2015 8:31:44 GMT -6
Defensive players have to beat two people - blocker and BC.
So if you're going to do an "Oklahoma" Drill it should be one defender vs. an OL and RB.
Like fantom we used to do it on first day of pads along with 3 on 3, Inside-Outside, 7-on-7 (DL Pass Rush) and Half Line drills. DBs also did 1-on-1 vs. WRs (man cover).
Now we have one less day of full pads and can't afford the time. Haven't really missed it except the Old Timer in me feels like we should do it just because we always did, which isn't a very good reason.
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Post by fantom on Aug 20, 2015 8:35:57 GMT -6
In youth league, this is pointless. I think too many of the people who are guilty of using this frequently, are the old guys who think football has gone soft and if it's not double tight bone, it's a fad. Even looking at Facebook comments, people are very quick to defend it. CUZ HIDDIN MAKES EM UH MAN! I have no idea what happens at youth league and I'm an old guy. For some reason this post annoys me. Maybe I read it wrong.
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Post by coachfloyd on Aug 20, 2015 8:41:08 GMT -6
i hate it but love board drills.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Aug 20, 2015 8:43:16 GMT -6
In youth league, this is pointless. I think too many of the people who are guilty of using this frequently, are the old guys who think football has gone soft and if it's not double tight bone, it's a fad. Even looking at Facebook comments, people are very quick to defend it. CUZ HIDDIN MAKES EM UH MAN! I have no idea what happens at youth league and I'm an old guy. For some reason this post annoys me. Maybe I read it wrong. I meant old less as a statement of age, and more of a mindset. But not old school, because nothing is wrong with being old school for the most part. I meant more of the type of guy who thinks if you aren't hitting somebody square in the mouth on every play, you don't gain very much from it. Forget technique, forget game skills, just line up and run into each other, let our a primal yell and do it all again. I spend a pretty decent amount of time around our local youth league, and there are a few guys like that who have just been passionate about how effective it is at "making a man" out of an 8 year old by simply lining up and searching for contact.
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Post by jasper912 on Aug 20, 2015 12:59:08 GMT -6
We do it to start off every season. We split up the younger guys and the older guys.
Everyone gets amped up for it, and talk smack to each other all day long. We limit the distance between the players, and the amount of reps they get.
I also think football has gone soft, and we have beat a lot of teams better than us, just because we were more physical and made them quit. First thing I look for on film is if the starting QB plays defense. If he does, then I look for a way to get a good crack on him and try to punish him from the get go. If not the QB, then I look for their best player on offense for the same situation.
Favorite is to bring an outside receiver in a short motion, then pitch the ball to that side. I have a guy that likes to hit as the WR coming in motion and his only goal is to try and rock the designated crack guy. Works best if its an OLB. Over 4 season, I can think of 2-3 times that the best player on the other team didn't make it past this first play of the game.
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Post by dubber on Aug 20, 2015 16:52:20 GMT -6
On a team of 100 players who are all physically about that same, I could see using this drill to see who's competitive.
On my team of 40, it is less important.
The article said this was originally used to weed out fighter pilots.......it does not build character, it reveals it.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 20, 2015 20:29:26 GMT -6
I don't really see how the drill is any worse than running a live team session. In fact if you are doing 2 O vs 1 D it's probably safer over all if you think of the s**t show team can be with a bad scout team. We do a vortex drill now with the groups staggered five yards apart and the cones getting wider going out. Kids love it. Want to do it every day. We don't but it's a good one we do once during camp. But we are dinosaurs who still expect all of our offensive guys to be able to drive block and all our defensive guys to shed a block and make a tackle.
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Post by agap on Aug 20, 2015 20:44:49 GMT -6
I don't really see how the drill is any worse than running a live team session. In fact if you are doing 2 O vs 1 D it's probably safer over all if you think of the s**t show team can be with a bad scout team. We do a vortex drill now with the groups staggered five yards apart and the cones getting wider going out. Kids love it. Want to do it every day. We don't but it's a good one we do once during camp. But we are dinosaurs who still expect all of our offensive guys to be able to drive block and all our defensive guys to shed a block and make a tackle. I agree it's not worse than going team if you're always going live. If you have a quick whistle and aren't going to the ground during Team, than the Oklahoma drill is worse. At the same time, when we go Team our guys are using the right technique when they tackle (or at least they should be). I'm willing to bet most players don't use the right technique when tackling in the Oklahoma drill. It's just like the Eye Opener drill we used to do as linebackers when I was in high school. We weren't supposed to use the right technique for that drill; we were just supposed to hit the running back as hard as we could, even if it meant a helmet to helmet tackle or something like that.
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Post by 42falcon on Aug 20, 2015 20:49:18 GMT -6
I don't really see how the drill is any worse than running a live team session. In fact if you are doing 2 O vs 1 D it's probably safer over all if you think of the s**t show team can be with a bad scout team. We do a vortex drill now with the groups staggered five yards apart and the cones getting wider going out. Kids love it. Want to do it every day. We don't but it's a good one we do once during camp. But we are dinosaurs who still expect all of our offensive guys to be able to drive block and all our defensive guys to shed a block and make a tackle. I agree it's not worse than going team if you're always going live. If you have a quick whistle and aren't going to the ground during Team, than the Oklahoma drill is worse. At the same time, when we go Team our guys are using the right technique when they tackle (or at least they should be). I'm willing to bet most players don't use the right technique when tackling in the Oklahoma drill. It's just like the Eye Opener drill we used to do as linebackers when I was in high school. We weren't supposed to use the right technique for that drill; we were just supposed to hit the running back as hard as we could, even if it meant a helmet to helmet tackle or something like that. The technique excuse is $hitty coaching. You get what you coach. If you allow garbage technique you get it. May as well just throw out the football & go have a coffee as coaches while the kids play... Kids will degrade in any drill / game it's on us to keep the pace
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 20, 2015 21:05:44 GMT -6
We did the drill as well. I added another level where there is a WR and DB. The WR has to learn to stalk block (legally) for a longer period of time and the DB has to learn to get off the block and make a solid tackle in space.
I do it more to ramp things up. I only schedule this period for six minutes.
(OL vs. DL or LB) and (WR vs. DB); RB has to stay within the bags and run to score.
They love it. It hypes the practice up immediately. Coaches are running and jumping around like they were kids. Even the young pups get "voluntold" and if they perform well, the place goes crazy.
Full disclosure: the drill makes me nervous. I wipe my brow when we move on to the next segment.
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Post by fantom on Aug 20, 2015 21:21:21 GMT -6
We did the drill as well. I added another level where there is a WR and DB. The WR has to learn to stalk block (legally) for a longer period of time and the DB has to learn to get off the block and make a solid tackle in space. I do it more to ramp things up. I only schedule this period for six minutes. (OL vs. DL or LB) and (WR vs. DB); RB has to stay within the bags and run to score. They love it. It hypes the practice up immediately. Coaches are running and jumping around like they were kids. Even the young pups get "voluntold" and if they perform well, the place goes crazy. Full disclosure: the drill makes me nervous. I wipe my brow when we move on to the next segment. Always worried about that drill. You have a receiver with his legs locked up, blocking with all kinds of stuff going on behind them. I get the idea that kids like stuff like this and hoo and haw but does it really accomplish anything?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 20, 2015 21:35:14 GMT -6
We did the drill as well. I added another level where there is a WR and DB. The WR has to learn to stalk block (legally) for a longer period of time and the DB has to learn to get off the block and make a solid tackle in space. I do it more to ramp things up. I only schedule this period for six minutes. (OL vs. DL or LB) and (WR vs. DB); RB has to stay within the bags and run to score. They love it. It hypes the practice up immediately. Coaches are running and jumping around like they were kids. Even the young pups get "voluntold" and if they perform well, the place goes crazy. Full disclosure: the drill makes me nervous. I wipe my brow when we move on to the next segment. Always worried about that drill. You have a receiver with his legs locked up, blocking with all kinds of stuff going on behind them. I get the idea that kids like stuff like this and hoo and haw but does it really accomplish anything? Agreed. If it had zero redeeming value, I would ax it. There have been years, where I didn't have the pony's and we didn't do it. I can still justify some game actions in the drill. A WR downfield blocking is always going to have something going on behind him.
But overall, it's a drill that we use once or twice early in camp to get the mojo going.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Aug 20, 2015 21:40:12 GMT -6
We used a variation of the drill. It was with 7th and 8th graders. It's called the "A-Drill", because the alignment of the cones (sidelines) looks like an "A". It has three matchups, OL vs DL at the LOS, FB/TE vs LBer at 5 yards, and WR vs DB at 15 yards, along with a RB carrying the ball. The goal was to get past the 15 yard mark.
We kept it short, about 15 minutes at a time, only two or three times a season, always in the first week or so, but after thorough technique training. We really only did it enough to make sure we got everyone a few reps and saw the matchups we needed to see. We were very cognizant of the match-ups. We weren't trying to get someone blasted. We wanted realistic matchups, and we would upgrade or downgrade those matchups as necessary. Beyond those safeguards, we were also quick to pull a kid who was doing something dangerous. Usually that was dropping his head.
IIn many ways 'm a very non-old school coach, so I'm not doing it to pound on the kids. Heck, I coach SOCCER, lol. We did it with a purpose, and got in and out of the drill as quickly as we could accomplish that purpose. We wanted to know who would buzz their feet in a one-on-one blocking situation and who would be willing to stick their pads into someone to make a tackle. We could accomplish the one-on-one blocking matchups in a different way, but we didn't feel that any tackling drill could better replicate a realistic situation.
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Post by fantom on Aug 20, 2015 21:42:47 GMT -6
Always worried about that drill. You have a receiver with his legs locked up, blocking with all kinds of stuff going on behind them. I get the idea that kids like stuff like this and hoo and haw but does it really accomplish anything? Agreed. If it had zero redeeming value, I would ax it. There have been years, where I didn't have the pony's and we didn't do it. I can still justify some game actions in the drill. A WR downfield blocking is always going to have something going on behind him.
But overall, it's a drill that we use once or twice early in camp to get the mojo going.
OK, I get that.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 21, 2015 5:35:08 GMT -6
I think two different issues are being discussed here. The coaches on this board are discussing the merits of the drill as it regards to improving football performance. The videos however, seemed to have a "it is too much physical contact" slant, with of course the necessary muddling of information that media does so well (ie, showing OU running 2 on 1 drills, with very little spacing, but many other drills 2 on 2 with a great deal of spacing).
Problem being, essentially this is another way to say that the collisions that occur in football are detrimental. The key issue here is deciding whether or not an Oklahoma drill is more violent than a live game...because if the answer is NO, but the drill is too violent than it stands to reason that pretty soon that rationale just extends to the game as a whole.
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Post by jg78 on Aug 21, 2015 5:58:08 GMT -6
I like it a couple of times early on in August practice, but that's it.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Aug 21, 2015 7:37:20 GMT -6
We do it to start off every season. We split up the younger guys and the older guys. Everyone gets amped up for it, and talk smack to each other all day long. We limit the distance between the players, and the amount of reps they get. I also think football has gone soft, and we have beat a lot of teams better than us, just because we were more physical and made them quit. First thing I look for on film is if the starting QB plays defense. If he does, then I look for a way to get a good crack on him and try to punish him from the get go. If not the QB, then I look for their best player on offense for the same situation. Favorite is to bring an outside receiver in a short motion, then pitch the ball to that side. I have a guy that likes to hit as the WR coming in motion and his only goal is to try and rock the designated crack guy. Works best if its an OLB. Over 4 season, I can think of 2-3 times that the best player on the other team didn't make it past this first play of the game. so do you believe doing the drill at the start of season is what makes your team a physical football team? there's gotta be more to it than that
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 21, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -6
I think two different issues are being discussed here. The coaches on this board are discussing the merits of the drill as it regards to improving football performance. The videos however, seemed to have a "it is too much physical contact" slant, with of course the necessary muddling of information that media does so well (ie, showing OU running 2 on 1 drills, with very little spacing, but many other drills 2 on 2 with a great deal of spacing). Problem being, essentially this is another way to say that the collisions that occur in football are detrimental. The key issue here is deciding whether or not an Oklahoma drill is more violent than a live game...because if the answer is NO, but the drill is too violent than it stands to reason that pretty soon that rationale just extends to the game as a whole. I tried to think of another drill or segment that is similar and the only thing that I could come up with would be our (inside run) period, which is also a segment that we demand be run at "game speed."
Now, in regard to whether the collisions in the drill are more violent than a game? That is a good question.
As a former FB, when we ran our inside period, it was usually Iso blocks on either the LB's or the DE's. I had about 4-5 yards to generate some speed (relative term in my case) to collision the LB. It was an inside period, so the LB also anticipated me coming directly at him as well and was usually downhill on the snap of the ball.
In the OU drill the collisions and tackles are almost always head on. In inside, they can vary (slightly), based on angles, but not much.
In a game, unless it's a short yardage situation, the LB doesn't always expect ISO, so you might catch them on their heels. In OU or Inside, they know it's coming. Which could possibly increase the frequency and degree of collisions in a shorter period of time.
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