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Post by hsrose on Apr 23, 2015 18:53:37 GMT -6
I've been in the HC position for almost 5 weeks now, still getting things going, things are starting to change. Its funny how you can talk with a kid, or several, and see those that are buying in and those that don't believe a word I am saying.
Anyway, I talk with my one on-campus coach today, a VP, who proceeds to tell me that he was made aware of an image on social media showing 4 of our players, very, very baked, holding a baggie of pot up by their faces. He handled it from the school side, they got yelled at by the VP for being football players, they are in school drug counseling now, talked with parents, all that. He was asking me what my thoughts were for team discipline. Said that I'd thought about a lot of things, I was really up on things last season and had all the answers. Now, when I turn around, there's nobody there, just me so I've got to come up an answer.
If this was in-season it would be all the school discipline plus a 1-game suspension plus lots of extra stuff to do after practice. Twice and gone. But we're not in-season and there's no guarantee they will be there this fall anyway. I've got no leverage right now, what am I going to do, ban them from the weight room?
What do you guys do when this type of thing happens in the off-season, and in-season? Is there a difference from a program perspective?
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 23, 2015 19:01:12 GMT -6
My school district that is automatic long term suspension and up for explosion.. Likely expelled.. Best bball player on team had a picture of him with a joint on snap chat.. Expelled..
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Post by coachplaa on Apr 23, 2015 20:00:49 GMT -6
It's obvious to me that drug use is going on more and more. I tell my kids choose drugs or choose sports, and if I have any proof they are choosing drugs or get busted by the school, that's it and they are out of the program. My hope is it gives kids a reason to say no, but I know that's not always the case.
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Post by coachrdc on Apr 23, 2015 20:23:52 GMT -6
Why don't you feel like you have any leverage? Just because its out of season? I'd say you have all the leverage in the world, especially if you've been there a while. I also think your school is putting you at a disadvantage with not having a suspension policy in place.
If it were me, I'd apply the schools punishment (probably a harsher one) even though its not in season. If the kids don't like it and threaten to quit, I'd tell 'em to kick rocks.
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 23, 2015 20:59:55 GMT -6
Just a thought that comes to mind - if you are in a situation where you cannot really formally punish them for off-season infractions, I'd make it very clear that all such stupidity will be noted, and will be addressed in a very unpleasant way for the entire team the first week of practice. And then I would set aside some time at the end of each practice the first week and run the living crap out of the entire team, and make sure I told them exactly why.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 23, 2015 21:29:13 GMT -6
I think the drug social media combo is going to cause a lot of headaches for a lot of coaches coming up. Our last three president of the US have admitted to using marijuana, half of the presidential candidate field has as well, its legal in three states and DC and bipartisan bills have been introduced in Congress to legalize it. iam not saying its right,i am saying its a mixed signal to teens and an uphill battle for coaches.i don't know the right answer but i know i love football more than weed and maybe you can use the kids love of the game to convince them to make better choices.
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Post by joelee on Apr 23, 2015 22:52:01 GMT -6
Why do you have to do more than the school? Its not football season and it wasn't at school. How about approaching it as trying to help the kids, mentor the kids, call them in and lay out future expectations.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 23, 2015 23:40:01 GMT -6
School handled it Talk to the boys about making better decisions Move on
Kids do dumb stuff, realistically none of us would have teams if we drug tested lol
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Post by hammer66 on Apr 24, 2015 6:13:11 GMT -6
Maybe I am off base here.... I just don't get it anymore. Kids are High School students first and foremost. They participate on athletic teams as a extracurricular activity. Why is it every time a kid does something wrong and it isn't during the season and he is a football player it becomes a football issue. I don't get it. I know we as coaches hold our athletes to a higher standard. Its really difficult to do that if the parents and the school aren't doing that. In my mind if the school handles it as a coach you need to address it with the kid and tell him that this cannot continue and explain to him what the penalty would be if he got caught in season. It really burns me when teachers email the HC because they are having an issue with one of the kids on the team. I mean come on do your job.... The HC of the football team is just that... we can try to push kids in the right direction but other have to be accountable as well.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 24, 2015 6:24:47 GMT -6
Didn't happen under your supervision so shouldn't be your problem. That simple. School needs to handle it and you need to let the players know you know and if it's during football season or something under your supervision they are gone if it happens again.
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 24, 2015 6:44:53 GMT -6
To me, if your school's athletic code only applies to in-season, there really isn't anything you can or should do other than talk to them about it. The school I'm at now has a year round policy so these guys would be looking at a minimum of a two-game suspension even if it did happen out of season.
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Post by coachphillip on Apr 24, 2015 7:48:55 GMT -6
They're kids. They don't understand the long term repercussions of their actions. Talk to them about it and what those consequences could mean for them. Employers check potential workers' social media sites. Someone's perception of you is their reality of you. Kids need to be taught those things. It sucks for them because they have all these technological traps laying around at their fingertips. Nobody knows how many stupid things I've done since there wasn't anyone with a camera phone recording me and yelling "WORLDSTAR!"
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Post by blockdownkickout on Apr 24, 2015 8:27:48 GMT -6
Our school district has a policy for drugs and alcohol. Short version is that if someone is clearly caught (pictures or arrested) with drugs or alcohol there is an automatic suspension that applies to the next sport the kid plays. So if a kid gets caught right now with drugs and isn't on the baseball team, then the suspension would start the football season. Not saying it's the best plan but it does take it out of my hands and there is no situation where parents or kids can complain.
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Post by hammer66 on Apr 24, 2015 10:49:15 GMT -6
We have a one year ban... a neighboring district had the penalty of the next season. Some wrestlers got caught during baseball season so they signed up for Fall Cross country... so they got around the penalty.
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Post by hsrose on Apr 24, 2015 11:27:30 GMT -6
In setting up the team rules I didn't want to go too much above & beyond what the school is already doing, they already cover pretty much everything. Missing/late practices and such, team infractions, are 'Opportunity Knocks' meaning they do Posts - sprint goal post to goal post and back, within time - or Frog Walks - 100 yard lunges carrying either an 8', 4" PVC pipe half-filled with water or a heavy bag. Drugs & alcohol carry a game suspension in addition to the school penalty. Second time for drugs and they are no longer eligible to participate in the football program. Maybe come back to the team after the season is over.
I'm going to talk with the 4 players, let them know that I know, and that the next time they don't get a warning, they are gone, this was their first chance. Bad things for their future, show me your friends and I'll show you your future, that kind of talk.
I did a 2-year stint as the rules guy for a youth program several years back. The book was filled with all kinds of strange stuff, everything in there was in response to a coach/team doing something strange that gave them an advantage. The only way to combat the creativity of the coaches was to specify everything, which gave nobody any leeway on anything. That's not what I'm trying to setup here. The school is that way, Do X, you get Y, it's all spelled out. We had a kid last year that got suspended for fighting/beating up his step-brother. Beat him pretty bad. Sounds bad, pretty stupid, fighting on campus and all that. School rules are clear, black and white, Do X, get Y. Fighting = suspension, automatic. Until you hear that the step-brother grabbed his younger sisters rear and had evil intent in his heart. So the kid beats up his step-brother for coming after his sister.
It ain't easy being a teenager these days.
Thanks guys
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 24, 2015 11:55:04 GMT -6
More rules is never a good thing You have to enforce them or you look like crap
Less rules the better
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Post by ksmitty79 on Apr 24, 2015 12:04:22 GMT -6
Use this a learning tool. You can add anything you want to the Football Handbook/Code of Conduct. Our school I believe has a 365 not really sure as this really hasn't been a problem for us. Lets think about it this way.. The school district handled the situation... Adding drug counseling which is good.. I personally feel that it happened out-side of football season therefore it's the schools problem. I would have a talk with the young men and let them know your stance on it and this is their final get out of jail card. ISS/OSS/Discipline issues in the future and make them sign it! Give them a speech about accountability,image, and consequences. I would also make sure that the parents knew my expectations when it comes to illegal drugs and I have a zero tolerance.
WE all were dumb High School Kids as one time. We all did things back in the day that we are not proud of. Kids got busted and luckily they were not in season.. This is parenting issue!!!! Me I would have busted my kids A$$
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Post by IronmanFootball on Apr 24, 2015 12:08:31 GMT -6
They sign a contract to play for us (parents sign it too). Any drinking or drug use, even off-campus, and they're off the team. I never put how long they're off for though, but the only way I would know means you're flaunting it. I live 30 min from campus, I don't have a child at the school... only way I would know is if they have pictures/videos floating around. At the least, I've helped them keep their vices off public social media.
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Post by newhope on Apr 24, 2015 12:53:19 GMT -6
I'm always at a loss to understand why coaches don't take action against things kids do "out of season". Now, it may not be exactly the same as in season, but "out of season" is not an excuse. We have a policy that they can be held responsible for what they post on social media. I had one in the spring last year tweet a couple of drug references. I tracked him down and told him point blank if he ever posted anything else of that nature his playing days were over. I reminded him that he was a football player at our school and identified himself as such on his twitter account and that he was causing our program to look bad in the eyes of the public--that people in the community would see it. I explained it was my job not allow our program to be brought into disrepute. He got the message.
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Post by Coach.A on Apr 24, 2015 13:08:00 GMT -6
Question for those of you who have school policies that result in game suspensions even when infractions happen in the off-season.
What happens if the kid is a member of student council or the environmental club, or the lead in the school play, or the book club, etc... Are they removed from those activities in some capacity?
I've actually seen schools suspend a star athlete for an infraction, but in the same year allow the lead of the school play (who violated the exact same rule) to participate in the play "because they didn't have anybody to fill in for the lead and it wasn't fair to the rest of the kids in the play".
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 24, 2015 15:32:44 GMT -6
i have fought with admin before for similar issue
they make exceptions for losers to go to Prom, but i can't let a kid play football if he is under a 2.0
that is not fair, supposed to be no extra curriculars if theyre ineligible
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 24, 2015 15:45:05 GMT -6
To be honest I'm not even sure we can suspended a kid or even discipline them at all out of season. Isn't that what a school behavior policy is for? If there's nothing in writing by the school and we try to suspend a kid for 2 games for an infraction from the previous March, that's an easy case that can be made by that player's parents. We would talk to the kid and hope he learns from the mistake, but we wouldn't, for example, make the kid sit a game.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 24, 2015 16:31:34 GMT -6
I think the drug social media combo is going to cause a lot of headaches for a lot of coaches coming up. Our last three president of the US have admitted to using marijuana, half of the presidential candidate field has as well, its legal in three states and DC and bipartisan bills have been introduced in Congress to legalize it. iam not saying its right,i am saying its a mixed signal to teens and an uphill battle for coaches.i don't know the right answer but i know i love football more than weed and maybe you can use the kids love of the game to convince them to make better choices. Even if society makes it legal for adults, it will still be illegal for kids just like alcohol.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 24, 2015 19:21:30 GMT -6
I think the drug social media combo is going to cause a lot of headaches for a lot of coaches coming up. Our last three president of the US have admitted to using marijuana, half of the presidential candidate field has as well, its legal in three states and DC and bipartisan bills have been introduced in Congress to legalize it. iam not saying its right,i am saying its a mixed signal to teens and an uphill battle for coaches.i don't know the right answer but i know i love football more than weed and maybe you can use the kids love of the game to convince them to make better choices. Even if society makes it legal for adults, it will still be illegal for kids just like alcohol. i agree but i just think it opens coaches up to a lot of potential problems...especially when you have the desire to highlight every little move on social media...
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Post by Defcord on Apr 24, 2015 19:33:13 GMT -6
The three questions i always asked myself when dealing with tough questions were...
1. Is this young man trying to improve himself overall (even if he made a mistake)? If he won't help himself I won't either...
2. If I keep him does it give him a chance to be a better person?
3. If I keep him can he be a positive contribution tp the team?
I want all three of those to be yes...if its two yes then i take ot to my coaches and we discuss it
if its only one yes we tell him get his shat together and then we can talk...
if all are no's ww move on and wish kid the best...if he is underclasman he has long shot he can get back but if he's older guy we move on...we never liked losing a guy though
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Post by peacock1915 on Apr 24, 2015 19:46:13 GMT -6
Any drug/alcohol related incident at our school puts the kid on a contract, the next mess up gone. Had a kid get caught with pills around our last regular season game, was put on contract got in trouble again over spring break now he's gone. His punishment when he returned after the first time was 25 backpacks, push a 25 lb weight from one sideline to the other n lunge it back.
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Post by mholst40 on Apr 25, 2015 8:11:19 GMT -6
Per district policy we can not punish players for any transgressions made while we are not "in-season".
A couple of years ago, we had some kids steal some money at a fundraiser. We put them on probation from off-season activities, required them to go to study hall and made them complete a mandatory number of community service hours. We also prohibited them from working at any fundraisers for us. They were also required to maintain a certain GPA. When they met these requirements, they were allowed to participate again.
Did it work? Not really. Two of the kids involved got kicked off the team this year. But, it was our only recourse we could think of at the time.
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Post by freezeoption on Apr 25, 2015 16:34:42 GMT -6
i have a situation like that, really would like to just say your done, but will follow school policy
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Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 25, 2015 17:08:24 GMT -6
I don't believe we should extend our reach beyond our in-season contact with kids if it is not written in district policy.
To that end, when it comes to sanctions like training rules for athletes, why not apply similar codes of conduct to any privilege at school? Districts can't tell a student that they no longer will be taught core subjects because of undesirable behaviors outside of school but how about saying "you get caught drinking, chewing, stealing, etc? You're out of AP Physics, can't go outside for study hall or off campus for lunch and you're out of the environmental club."
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 25, 2015 20:33:20 GMT -6
It must just be the libertarian in me, but what business is it what a kid does away from school? I know this topic has come up on here before and I am sure I posted the exact same response as I am about to, but I mean really, all I ever hear is teachers complaining about “raising somebody’s kids” and then turn around and take on the responsibility of disciplining a kid for something away from school.
I am not condoning drug use for teenagers, so don’t assume that is what I am saying. I just think that school districts have no business in the lives of kids AWAY from the school as far as discipline. Now if you see a kid doing something stupid like this, it does open the door to a great mentoring moment, but thats all IMO.
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