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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2015 9:17:32 GMT -6
So if someone were going to look at getting into the profession, would you say a private or chartered school would be better than public? Duece Depends on what you want out of a job? If you want to be able to incorporate faith or some other value of yours into your teaching, then yes. Plus, they're generally more disciplined with less of the paperwork/headache stuff. However, in Illinois the pay is terrible and there is no retirement so financially it's a dead end. All depends on what you want out of your job.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2015 9:19:39 GMT -6
In addition to what arnold posted, there has been a real movement (at least in our state) to lessen if not wipe out the influence of teachers' unions, both at state and local levels. For example tenure has virtually become a thing of the past.
The political motivation cannot be underestimated.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Jan 5, 2015 9:27:14 GMT -6
So if someone were going to look at getting into the profession, would you say a private or chartered school would be better than public? Duece Private schools here pay awful (20k less starting then public and no pay increases) and charter schools are not allowed by law.
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Post by tmccullo on Jan 5, 2015 9:59:09 GMT -6
I can retire next year at December. I have considered strongly giving it up and taking a job at an oil refinery where starting pay is much more than what I make with a masters degree and many years experience. The thing that has ruined this profession here is State accountability. We do nothing but teach to state tests and worrying about being put on a growth plan if we don't get good scores. No matter what you do, you are not doing enough. Each semester more and more is piled on teachers. Kids seem to not care about school and are not willing to do any work and teachers are expected to pass them regardless. Teachers are held accountable but parents and kids are not. We use to have 2 planning periods each day and now we have one. Most of the time team meeting tie up this time.
I was a PE teacher for most of my career and didn't have to be involved in all the school BS. I was much happier as a teacher. After the school I was at got low performing for too many years PE and elective teachers took the blame and we all laid off. PE jobs now are impossible to find so I had to get re-certified in Special Ed. What a nightmare this is.....paper work out the butt and now special ed teachers are held accountable for kids who have long and short term memories passing the SAME test regular ed kids have to take.
Had my head coach not come to my aid this year and offered me a chance to get out of the classroom and just work as a full time strength coach/football coach, I most likely would have retired early and taken one of those low skilled high paying oil refinery jobs working 4 day a week and getting excellent benefits.
If I had to advise a young kid about careers I would definitely not advise going into education. Coaching is GREAT but teaching has really gone down hill in the past 15-20 years. I have a feeling things are going to get much worse for teachers before they get better unless politicians get out of education and teacher are allowed to teach again.
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Post by natenator on Jan 5, 2015 10:02:47 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2015 10:06:49 GMT -6
In addition to what arnold posted, there has been a real movement (at least in our state) to lessen if not wipe out the influence of teachers' unions, both at state and local levels. For example tenure has virtually become a thing of the past.
The political motivation cannot be underestimated. I can both see the move to get rid of tenure as a good thing and a bad thing. A bad thing in that it opens it up for bad districts/admins to get rid of people that don't deserve it, but at the same time it is a good thing that you can now get rid of those really horrible teachers that just mail it in every single day just because they're tenured.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 10:50:13 GMT -6
The constant bomb threats nearly drove me out of teaching a few years back. (after Columbine) It was a daily thing, evacuations and searches almost every day. standing outside in the hot sun or freezing rain while building was searched, trying to enforce silly rules on the kids, no bathroom, no water, kids wanting to talk, not allowed...silence, just waiting for hours and trying to enforce that. Felt like a security guard instead of a teacher. I love teaching too much to ever walk away though. Common core and what appears to be "education jihad" is quite puzzling. Sounds like the place I was at a year ago. The policy there was to let parents sign out their kids and take them home in the event of an evacuation and the search dog took hours to arrive, so a bomb threat basically meant a very short day for the kids. Out of 15 actual days of school from Dec.-Feb. (had a lot of snow) we had 6 bomb threats. It was insane. Common Core, by itself, could be a good thing. I strongly preferred the standards in English and Social Studies over what we were (and will still be) using. The problems are that the Math stuff is insane, the PARCC test is a mess that doesn't actually test what it says it tests, and it is being shoehorned into vocational classes and courses where it doesn't belong. Our state recently voted to repeal Common Core (after every district had spent tons of money on CC books and materials) and stick wtih what we had, which was an arbitrary joke in the courses I teach and now doesn't match the books and materials we actually use. Education Jihad is real and ugly, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 10:56:31 GMT -6
I agree. Educational leadership across the board is appalling. Once you get one bad leader, be it the principal or the super, it's over for your district. I'm lucky enough to work for a very good super and a learning principal. But both have my back and that is invaluable. Today's admins, on average, are more concerned about covering their own a--es that they are in supporting or nurturing young or old teachers. That leads to a hostile, terrible work environment. Been there, done that. I thought long and hard about getting out 6 years ago after having worked at 3 different schools with terrible super/principal leadership. Glad I stuck it out though because it's been very rewarding working at my current place. I don't know that leadership is the sole reason, but I would definitely agree that it's one of the biggest issues with education today. The system is now set up where they have to cover their own tails. If the scores look bad, or they have too many discipline problems reported to the state, or the graduation rate dips or whatever they can and will be fired. It's the top down piling on the people on the bottom out of fear. The whole system is about beating teachers into submission. There's a superintendent where I live who is an absolute nightmare to work for. Attrition is through the roof there as he's doubled down on just about every bad idea to hit education in the last 10 years. The teachers there rebelled and staged tons of protests to have him removed as the work environment there just sucks--it's like Stalinist Russia with all the backbiting and politicking going on. However, the district's scores are up, so with the Governor on his side, he just got his contract renewed and got a raise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 11:04:28 GMT -6
So if someone were going to look at getting into the profession, would you say a private or chartered school would be better than public? Duece I'd stay the heck away from a Charter School. We don't have them in my area yet, but from what I hear it's basically all the BS of a public school, but with an even more corporate mentality and lesser benefits/wages. No thanks. As for a private school... that's tough. I've thought about it because I'd love the classroom environment, but where I live the privates are a huge pay cut ($10-15K less than the surrounding public schools) and you don't get a pension, good benefits, or any kind of job security, really. There are going to be politics anywhere. If you could give me a private school with public school salary and benefits, it's a no brainer.
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 5, 2015 11:17:35 GMT -6
So if someone were going to look at getting into the profession, would you say a private or chartered school would be better than public? Duece The problem with that is you lose out on the union protection and security blanket you get with a being in the public school system employment isn't guaranteed with tenure benefits won't be as good retirement most likely won't exist and if it is won't be able to compare to what a public school teacher would get i think the PERFECT private or charter school would be good to work at, because you could succeed in football every year. Really good private schools that put football first have a lot of advantages over public schools... you see in many states the privates winning championships, even here in CA with some of the giant schools, many times it is the private schools who win state (De La Salle for example) The right charter school would be nice, because you still teach at a public school, so i think the years still count toward your retirement, but that principal would really have to want you to give you pay close to other districts. It has worked well for Murphy, his school is a charter now and they are able to take in any kid they really want from our county, or any county touching our county... and they don't have to pay a tuition. But he was such a name before getting there, I think they would compensate him well. I had a buddy who was a VERY successful coach/teacher at a public school here. He got offered 100k a year to move to a private school in Sac, be the HC, teach only football weight lifting classes, and be the AD. It was a sweet offer, but in the end he decided to turn it down, decided it wasn't worth it when looking at the bigger picture of his life and family's financial security. If he didn't win they'd fire him whenever they felt like it and he just lost out on some retirement years and lost his guaranteed employment in his current district
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 11:30:13 GMT -6
I think the issue is they don't train you before the year starts then overwhelm you with meetings etc once it has started. The lesson plan format stuff is INSANE. 10 pages a unit. That takes hours to do that you could be planning or grading or reflecting. There's no realistic job preview. I could go all day. If you want to be a "good" teacher, you're working 80 hours / week. When I did HR I worked 37.5/week and took nothing home. Then again I couldn't coach football, so... The teacher training thing is huge. My teacher training program was all about structuring lessons and showing off how well I could build fancy assignments to teach higher order thinking, with the emphasis on all these high minded concepts like preparing lifelong learners, etc. There were some observations in there, but they weren't really meaningful. I'd just go and sit in someone's classroom for a bunch of hours, then teach one lesson where I jumped through a bunch of hoops the College of Ed. pulled out of their butt. Then I got into teaching and found out that all the "higher order thinking" stuff is just lip service that most of the kids I've had simply are not equipped or inclined to do. What teaching in the era of NCLB and RTTT is really about is jumping through hoops, tons of arbitrary paperwork, eating a ton of $hit on a daily basis, and herding children while hopefully producing top test scores. Then they measure test scores in so many different ways that there's no way to possibly win. I love the kids. I love the teaching. Where I'm at now, I'm pretty much required to teach, coach, and then tutor after school for 2 hours on the days we don't have weights. When I factor in my commuting times, even the OFFSEASON amounts to working 12 hour days 5 days a week, then typing up 15 different 2 page lesson plans and doing all the grading on my own time, all for $38,500 with a Master's degree and a stipend (the state actually takes 5% of that as a mandatory retirement contribution, making it really $36,575), and my Principal is still pushing me to sponsor some type of club on top of all that. Because of coaching, I don't get the summer off because of weights and practice, aside from the dead period over the 4th of July. If you figure up all the hours I work, it works out to about $16.00 an hour, not counting all the prep work and grading I do at home, so it's really much less on an hourly basis. It's just constant work, work, work. I work many more hours than someone working a full time job in the private sector for an hourly wage and don't make that much more than many of them. I'm not complaining, but it is what it is. But hey, at least I get to coach football
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 5, 2015 11:30:31 GMT -6
How do you get "guaranteed employment"? Isn't that the knock against tenure? Also, how often does anyone in the primary education profession get a $100k job offer? I think your buddy was nuts to turn that down.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 5, 2015 11:47:31 GMT -6
The biggest problem is that schools are run.... like schools. The education paradigm hasn't changed in the last 150+ years. We are using a 19th century agrarian calendar model to educate kids in the 21st century. Test scores as a basis for evaluating educational effectiveness isn't going away. New standards, teaching models, learning programs, etc... will continue to be the next fix for improving test scores, just as they have been since the late 50's when the USSR launched Sputnik. Yet will still overlook the most simple solution for improving student performance - 2 1/2+ months of non-learning. With advent of technological advances we have seen over the last 20 years, that only further compounds the futility of the institution of education of refusing to truly move forward.
- Move to a year round school calendar. Gladwell's book Outliers highlights that the 19th century agrarian school calendar only exacerbates the socio-economic differences in students. You want to see test scores jump, then this will do the trick. - Also, change and extend the school day. Have you ever thought about why the school day is like it is? - Allow more time for core/critcal subject areas. - All schools need to operate more like charter schools. What can they offer that will attract and keep kids WANTING to come to school each day, or at least attracting their parents? Vouchers let the money follow the kids. - Get rid of teacher certification requirements. As it stands right now, a Ph. D in math from MIT is not considered highly qualified to teach in this state without the additional 'proper' training.
I now that I have gone off on a tangent, but this revolves back around to the leadership dilemma. The school leaders have been placed with a task to improve _________. The problem is that fundamental changed is being requested, but nominal change is being implemented.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 5, 2015 11:51:35 GMT -6
Part of the reason many quit early on is because the starting pay pretty much sucks They aren't patient enough to see how their salary will more than double in many districts from initial salary to when you Max it out via years and credits Just something to consider That usually takes 20-30 years of "patience". I don't blame them. $60k after 25 years in some district isn't a reward to hold out for for most. $60K after 25 years with the college requirements (masters etc.) that you teachers have to have is not worth it if you ask me for any industry. I am curious to find out why you guys who teach got into it. I am not being a wise a$$ here, I am serious about this question, but did some guidance counselor or one of your high school teachers sell you on the rewarding career that is education? And if they did, did they mention the financial issues that come with the job (ie: low pay). I just don't understand how so many people can get into teaching, and then constantly complain about the low pay. Did no one look into the pay of this profession before you got into it? Again, not trying to kick the hornets nest here, but I sincerely don't know why anyone would be surprised that their pay wasn't comparable to what some in the private sector are making with less education requirements.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2015 12:00:33 GMT -6
Coaching is the only reason I teach. I could go somewhere to get paid more, but after having dozens of jobs outside of education- railroad, highway department, cemetery caretaker, etc- I realized that coaching and to a degree, teaching is what I wanted to do. I know I could make more money somewhere else, heck in a different district, but I'm happy where I'm at and with my wife's income we do OK for ourselves. I don't really spend much if any money and I'm not real obsessed with it so I'm fine with whatever as long as I make enough to pay the bills and keep the family happy.
Was just trying to explain how some people may view it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 12:10:44 GMT -6
That usually takes 20-30 years of "patience". I don't blame them. $60k after 25 years in some district isn't a reward to hold out for for most. $60K after 25 years with the college requirements (masters etc.) that you teachers have to have is not worth it if you ask me for any industry. I am curious to find out why you guys who teach got into it. I am not being a wise a$$ here, I am serious about this question, but did some guidance counselor or one of your high school teachers sell you on the rewarding career that is education? And if they did, did they mention the financial issues that come with the job (ie: low pay). I just don't understand how so many people can get into teaching, and then constantly complain about the low pay. Did no one look into the pay of this profession before you got into it? Again, not trying to kick the hornets nest here, but I sincerely don't know why anyone would be surprised that their pay wasn't comparable to what some in the private sector are making with less education requirements. The thing about the pay... What else can a person with a teaching certificate and a liberal arts degree do besides teach that pays as well? People want to compare teaching to Accounting, Engineering, Law, Medicine, or whatever, but those careers are very different and have a set path that requires years of specialized training. Even with the drive to burn through teachers rapid fire, I'd wager that most of the people leaving within 5 years are either: A.) young people who went into teaching right out of college or so at 23 and leave the field to go back to school B.) people who switched to teaching from an established career on an alt license, didn't like it, and went back to their old fields C.) women who are married to men who make a decent living and will support them financially regardless of their career choice
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Post by IronmanFootball on Jan 5, 2015 12:13:50 GMT -6
C.) women who are married to men who make a decent living and will support them financially regardless of their career choice I tell my soon-to-be-wife all the time... she hits $80-90K on her own, I'm just coaching football/training kids. No more teaching for me.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 5, 2015 12:28:42 GMT -6
$60K after 25 years with the college requirements (masters etc.) that you teachers have to have is not worth it if you ask me for any industry. I am curious to find out why you guys who teach got into it. I am not being a wise a$$ here, I am serious about this question, but did some guidance counselor or one of your high school teachers sell you on the rewarding career that is education? And if they did, did they mention the financial issues that come with the job (ie: low pay). I just don't understand how so many people can get into teaching, and then constantly complain about the low pay. Did no one look into the pay of this profession before you got into it? Again, not trying to kick the hornets nest here, but I sincerely don't know why anyone would be surprised that their pay wasn't comparable to what some in the private sector are making with less education requirements. The thing about the pay... What else can a person with a teaching certificate and a liberal arts degree do besides teach that pays as well? That was kind of my point, why would you get a liberal arts degree in the first place with a teaching cert if you knew going in the pay was so bad and the working conditions (hours, paperwork etc) were going to suck so bad? Did someone give you career advice without advising you of the finances of the profession? Now as larrymoe says, he is happy teaching and with the pay, than that is great. But it sure seems to be a lot of folks get into the profession and then are surprised at the fact it is not what they thought it would be.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 12:46:36 GMT -6
The biggest problem is that schools are run.... like schools. The education paradigm hasn't changed in the last 150+ years. We are using a 19th century agrarian calendar model to educate kids in the 21st century. Test scores as a basis for evaluating educational effectiveness isn't going away. New standards, teaching models, learning programs, etc... will continue to be the next fix for improving test scores, just as they have been since the late 50's when the USSR launched Sputnik. Yet will still overlook the most simple solution for improving student performance - 2 1/2+ months of non-learning. With advent of technological advances we have seen over the last 20 years, that only further compounds the futility of the institution of education of refusing to truly move forward. - Move to a year round school calendar. Gladwell's book Outliers highlights that the 19th century agrarian school calendar only exacerbates the socio-economic differences in students. You want to see test scores jump, then this will do the trick. - Also, change and extend the school day. Have you ever thought about why the school day is like it is? - Allow more time for core/critcal subject areas. - All schools need to operate more like charter schools. What can they offer that will attract and keep kids WANTING to come to school each day, or at least attracting their parents? Vouchers let the money follow the kids. - Get rid of teacher certification requirements. As it stands right now, a Ph. D in math from MIT is not considered highly qualified to teach in this state without the additional 'proper' training. I now that I have gone off on a tangent, but this revolves back around to the leadership dilemma. The school leaders have been placed with a task to improve _________. The problem is that fundamental changed is being requested, but nominal change is being implemented. I work in an area w/a LARGE migrant population. We don't get some kids back from harvesting until right at the start of the school year. These families need that income. That calendar may work in New York City, but not here, over 1/2 the school wouldn't be here... Duece
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 5, 2015 13:05:18 GMT -6
The biggest problem is that schools are run.... like schools. The education paradigm hasn't changed in the last 150+ years. We are using a 19th century agrarian calendar model to educate kids in the 21st century. Test scores as a basis for evaluating educational effectiveness isn't going away. New standards, teaching models, learning programs, etc... will continue to be the next fix for improving test scores, just as they have been since the late 50's when the USSR launched Sputnik. Yet will still overlook the most simple solution for improving student performance - 2 1/2+ months of non-learning. With advent of technological advances we have seen over the last 20 years, that only further compounds the futility of the institution of education of refusing to truly move forward. - Move to a year round school calendar. Gladwell's book Outliers highlights that the 19th century agrarian school calendar only exacerbates the socio-economic differences in students. You want to see test scores jump, then this will do the trick. - Also, change and extend the school day. Have you ever thought about why the school day is like it is? - Allow more time for core/critcal subject areas. - All schools need to operate more like charter schools. What can they offer that will attract and keep kids WANTING to come to school each day, or at least attracting their parents? Vouchers let the money follow the kids. - Get rid of teacher certification requirements. As it stands right now, a Ph. D in math from MIT is not considered highly qualified to teach in this state without the additional 'proper' training. I now that I have gone off on a tangent, but this revolves back around to the leadership dilemma. The school leaders have been placed with a task to improve _________. The problem is that fundamental changed is being requested, but nominal change is being implemented. I work in an area w/a LARGE migrant population. We don't get some kids back from harvesting until right at the start of the school year. These families need that income. That calendar may work in New York City, but not here, over 1/2 the school wouldn't be here... Duece Ditto. There's giant parts of CA that have to take migrant workers into consideration when setting their schedule.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2015 13:06:37 GMT -6
The research I have seen on efficacy of year-round schooling is mixed.
Besides examples like deuce's, the cost of putting air conditioning in schools that don't currently have it but would need it in Summer would be daunting.
And I don't know many administrators, counselors, teachers that are going to work nine more weeks a year for the same pay.
Since 1950s (someone mentioned Sputnik earlier) politicians especially have been railing about how our educational system sucks, has to be improved, re-invented, etc.
And yet we still manage to be the most powerful nation in the world.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2015 13:10:12 GMT -6
- Move to a year round school calendar. Gladwell's book Outliers highlights that the 19th century agrarian school calendar only exacerbates the socio-economic differences in students. You want to see test scores jump, then this will do the trick. - Also, change and extend the school day. Have you ever thought about why the school day is like it is? 1. I wouldn't mind a move to a year round calendar. I'm already here all summer anyway. I don't think it will have any effect on test scores as all of the year rounders around here have comparable scores to the non year rounds. 2. Everything I've ever seen has said kids actually need less hours per day in school than the 8 we make them go to. Just at different times of the day than we're offering.
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Post by fantom on Jan 5, 2015 13:15:27 GMT -6
The thing about the pay... What else can a person with a teaching certificate and a liberal arts degree do besides teach that pays as well? That was kind of my point, why would you get a liberal arts degree in the first place with a teaching cert if you knew going in the pay was so bad and the working conditions (hours, paperwork etc) were going to suck so bad? Did someone give you career advice without advising you of the finances of the profession? Now as larrymoe says, he is happy teaching and with the pay, than that is great. But it sure seems to be a lot of folks get into the profession and then are surprised at the fact it is not what they thought it would be. We knew that the pay wouldn't be great but most of us are surprised at the working conditions.
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Post by gibbs72 on Jan 5, 2015 13:17:23 GMT -6
I was approached by a friend of mine who's an AFLAC district coordinator who wanted to recommend me to the state coordinator to be a "teacher" for new agents. They were going to have me learn the new software program, and "teach" the new agents in a classroom setting once a month. At first, I laughed it off. Then, I saw my salary would darn near be doubled than what I make as a teacher. My buddy told me that more companies are looking to get/ poach good teachers who can use their teaching skills in companies. Had I not been required to move, my wife not really on board, and no more coaching, I'd have jumped at it. Same teaching skills without the DOE paperwork b**ls**t.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 13:21:03 GMT -6
The thing about the pay... What else can a person with a teaching certificate and a liberal arts degree do besides teach that pays as well? That was kind of my point, why would you get a liberal arts degree in the first place with a teaching cert if you knew going in the pay was so bad and the working conditions (hours, paperwork etc) were going to suck so bad? Did someone give you career advice without advising you of the finances of the profession? Now as larrymoe says, he is happy teaching and with the pay, than that is great. But it sure seems to be a lot of folks get into the profession and then are surprised at the fact it is not what they thought it would be. It's changed a lot in the last 10 years--is still changing dramatically, actually--and they do NOT really talk about the awful new teacher evaluation processes, testing pressures, paperwork, etc. in college Education programs. All the stuff that drives teachers out is just not talked about. Nobody told me that our state does the 5% mandatory pretax pension contribution (with potential for social security leveling, which means they reduce your pension by every $1 social security pays you), which means your $35K starting salary is really $33,250 before insurance and other deductions. They changed the tenure law to make tenure irrelevant while I was a semester away from my certificate. There's more stuff being added all the time and the colleges of education do not talk about that stuff because they're big moneymakers for their universities (don't want to scare away students) and most of the professors have been in the ivory tower so long they don't really understand or care. Personally, I got into it because I'd always wanted to teach, decided law school wasn't for me after I got my Liberal Arts degree (college counselors made a point of saying that major didn't really matter in the job market and I never got advised differently growing up), and I got sick of working crappy private sector jobs that didn't pay as well or provide any kind of a future, so I went back and got my cert. I thought teaching would be stable career with the opportunity to pursue other interests, like coaching. It has been, to a point. But man, does it have its headaches.
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 5, 2015 13:22:23 GMT -6
What about making high schools more of a virtual classroom? Kind of like colleges. Kids who have to work can...but have to take classes at other times or online.
I know this would jack up athletics...but provide students (and teachers) different ways to skin the cat. Have a {censored} teacher? Let them work from home and teach a virtual class.
I don't have the answer on how to make all that work...but like DC says...Algebra is Algebra...it's just how it's delivered.
I could really get into working from home. Kids log in...you teach your class from your home office. Schools done...head to school for football practice. That'd be a fun gig.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 13:30:19 GMT -6
The research I have seen on efficacy of year-round schooling is mixed.
Besides examples like deuce's, the cost of putting air conditioning in schools that don't currently have it but would need it in Summer would be daunting.
And I don't know many administrators, counselors, teachers that are going to work nine more weeks a year for the same pay.
Since 1950s (someone mentioned Sputnik earlier) politicians especially have been railing about how our educational system sucks, has to be improved, re-invented, etc.
And yet we still manage to be the most powerful nation in the world. And they always compare us to South Korea or whoever. Do we really want to be just like South Korea? Just an FYI about the South Korean educational system: Kids in South Korea go to school for 14 hours a day Then they go to 4-6 hours of test prep at night. Kids grow up getting 3 hours of sleep per night during the week. Kids frequently sleep through classes that are almost completely direct instruction. The actual answers to the tests are easily found on the black market and cheating is rampant. This system has been in place for decades. Yet, where would you rather live? China, Japan, and all the other countries intentionally cherry pick their best and brightest students to look superior on the rankings of these stupid international test scores. India, South Africa, and other countries who score poorly drop out and suppress their data. We intentionally count everybody to make ours look as awful as possible to fuel the anti-public education agenda.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 13:41:50 GMT -6
What about making high schools more of a virtual classroom? Kind of like colleges. Kids who have to work can...but have to take classes at other times or online. I know this would jack up athletics...but provide students (and teachers) different ways to skin the cat. Have a {censored} teacher? Let them work from home and teach a virtual class. I don't have the answer on how to make all that work...but like DC says...Algebra is Algebra...it's just how it's delivered. I could really get into working from home. Kids log in...you teach your class from your home office. Schools done...head to school for football practice. That'd be a fun gig. There's a big drive for that. Like at the college level, school districts see it as a way to get extra dollars from increased enrollment and reduce overhead. The last district I worked in was really trying to get one off the ground. After taking some online classes and seeing things like the South New Hampshire model, I just don't think that most online education is worth a crap. It makes things more efficient and economical, but sitting there and listening to a recording is a lot different from being there live and being able to really interact with a teacher in a live environment and ask for help. Besides, a lot of online education is text based--how does that help the 15 year old who can only read at a 3rd grade level? How does that help teach the kid who wants to be a carpenter but lives in a small apartment with no tools how to build a new set of cabinets from scratch? The schools I know who do this only hire part time teachers to do it in order to save on expenses. Usually, the whole curriculum is already programmed and put together. A lot of the grading is done by the program itself. Automatically giving As for turning work in on time is common, too. It's a low stress gig, but the teacher's really reduced to nothing more than a part time data entry clerk without benefits.
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 5, 2015 13:59:07 GMT -6
How do you get "guaranteed employment"? Isn't that the knock against tenure? Also, how often does anyone in the primary education profession get a $100k job offer? I think your buddy was nuts to turn that down. well nothing in life is guaranteed but it is hard to fire a public school teacher 100k might have been a little exaggerated but this school wanted to be really good at football, and threw a big number at him to try to land him
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 5, 2015 14:35:07 GMT -6
I agree Coach Arnold. I think if there were an efficient way to do the online piece it would have already been implemented.
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