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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 20, 2007 10:38:50 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]To the coaches that have been at this for a long time[/glow]:
How do you cope with the highs and lows of players not meeting your expectations?
We all have expectations that we want our kids to meet. We are adults, we know what is good for kids. We expect them to do well in school, behave, follow our offseason programs, etc, etc.
I understand kids are kids and will let you down from time to time. When you are holding expectations of a large number of kids in an entire program the "let downs" can really pile up and get to you at times.
How do you cope with this constant stream of kids failing to meet expectations?
BTW, I have kids of my own, and understand as a parent why we set expectations and that kids will not always meet them.
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Post by superpower on Apr 20, 2007 11:31:14 GMT -6
I think you just have to pray, do the very best you can, and then let God deal with it. The highs and lows are part of both parenting and coaching, and you can't beat yourself up all the time. If you are doing your best, that is all you can do. Keep providing positive expectations and feedback but realize that life is full of those ups and downs.
"The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials." CHINESE PROVERB
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Post by brophy on Apr 20, 2007 11:37:27 GMT -6
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Post by knighter on Apr 20, 2007 11:46:30 GMT -6
quite the collection brophy. 1 porblem, they are not empty you slacker.
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Post by brophy on Apr 20, 2007 11:50:29 GMT -6
quite the collection brophy. 1 porblem, they are not empty you slacker. that's just for pregame warmup |
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Post by brophy on Apr 20, 2007 11:51:43 GMT -6
how do you DEAL with it?
SPEND EVERY WAKING HOUR all year long trying to be better prepared to prepare the players........how does that sound?
I really don't know how to 'unplug' during the season.
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Post by ajreaper on Apr 20, 2007 12:16:15 GMT -6
While this can be frustrating and stressful neither of those "fix" the under lying causes. Make a careful evaluation of the "whys". Can you make changes to make it easier or possible for more to meet these expectations? Mind you not lower them but tweaks to get more kids to meet and exceed them.
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 20, 2007 12:33:54 GMT -6
While this can be frustrating and stressful neither of those "fix" the under lying causes. Make a careful evaluation of the "whys". Can you make changes to make it easier or possible for more to meet these expectations? Mind you not lower them but tweaks to get more kids to meet and exceed them. Good Point I like to think that I do evaluate the reason(s) for the letdowns. That is one of the few things I took from my admin courses. Brushfires are not the problem, what is the underlying cause? I would be the first to admit problems in my classroom for example are a direct result of how I manage it. My point being I understand what you are saying. I'm in a rebuilding process, mind you and fight more battles than some may. But it can be so tiring at times constantly thinking and dealling with getting kids to meet my expectations. I just wonder how guys who have coached a long time can stomach it...... |
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Post by coachmathis on Apr 20, 2007 12:40:03 GMT -6
GET A HOBBY! This sounds may sound corny but I would suggest finding something in your offtime that you enjoy doing to help take your mind away from football. If you think about coaching and teaching all day long you will lose ur mind! IMO that time away will let you recharge your batteries. Have off time. I see so many coaches that think that you have to like sleep eat and do everything football during football season but I don't think that's the case. I consider myself a Steve Spurrier type in the sense that I am a coach 24/7 but Im not going to spend every moment thinking or working on coaching. There have been many times where it has been reported that he is a 9-5 type coach and I consider myself the same way. When I leave sometimes I do stuff at home but for the most part I don't. If you use your time wisely then you don't have to spend all day everyday breaking down film etc.
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Post by brophy on Apr 20, 2007 12:45:50 GMT -6
Piece by piece.
What is the kid doing right?
What is the kid doing wrong?
How did we develop the player to do what we expect him to do?
1)Can the kid tie his shoes?
A) no - teach him to tie shoes B) yes - go to step 2
2) Can the kid run forward with his shoes tied?
A) no - show him how to put one foot in front of the other B) yes - go to step 3
3) Can the kid move side-to-side?
A) no - show him how to laterally move B) yes - go to step 4
etc....systematic, standardized methodology to developing players.
We can't just expect kids to just "make it happen" - GRADE the kids on every facet of their performance. Rep deficient areas and DON'T move on to other things until they master it.
Contain / Control the liabilities
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Post by CVBears on Apr 20, 2007 13:37:21 GMT -6
Piece by piece. What is the kid doing right? What is the kid doing wrong? How did we develop the player to do what we expect him to do? 1)Can the kid tie his shoes? A) no - teach him to tie shoes B) yes - go to step 2 2) Can the kid run forward with his shoes tied? A) no - show him how to put one foot in front of the other B) yes - go to step 3 3) Can the kid move side-to-side? A) no - show him how to laterally move B) yes - go to step 4 etc....systematic, standardized methodology to developing players. We can't just expect kids to just "make it happen" - GRADE the kids on every facet of their performance. Rep deficient areas and DON'T move on to other things until they master it. Contain / Control the liabilities Agreed. Think about how school is scaffold so much. There is 5-8 years of general math before a variable is ever introduced. If a kids doesn't understand something, break it down further for him. Using Brohy's example, if the kid can't tie his own shoes, maybe he can't understand how to make the loop. Then we he has that mastered, move to making the other loop. Can't make the loop, break it down into going forward with one string and stopping. Got that mastered, move on to bringing only half of the string back to the center. Point is that everything can be broken down further. How many "little things" can a kid handle at once? Break it down as much as a kid needs and have each little thing a goal for him. It isn't that a kid can't reach goals, it is usually that he doesn't have the appropriate goals to start with. |
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Post by brophy on Apr 20, 2007 14:39:58 GMT -6
Break it down as much as a kid needs and have each little thing a goal for him. It isn't that a kid can't reach goals, it is usually that he doesn't have the appropriate goals to start with.  You're a GD Genius, Gump! |
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Post by coachjim on Apr 21, 2007 1:58:04 GMT -6
Two things: The first is to get other's involved more such as putting more of the responsibility on some of your assistants. At least that way, you won't be constantly blaming yourself. This works into my second point; just like in a tough job, usually after several years you hit a crossroads. You can either let things roll off of your shoulders or can take everything personnally. If you take the latter road, the fun will evaporate and eventually you will give yourself cancer.
I'm somewhat new to coaching but life's lessons are universal. Good luck.
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Post by coachjim on Apr 21, 2007 2:10:21 GMT -6
Re: (Brophy) "that's just for pregame warmup." I like you Broph, bet your a damn good coach and the kid's really look up to your personality. Just one thing though. I looked really hard at that picture and it appears you have only taken a few sips of the brandy and Maybe, some of the rum. Probably spilled most of it on your shirt. Pregame warmup? More like a little tea party at the sorority house. Next time we see that picture, that Cuervo better be empty! Pregame warmup... hrmph.  |
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
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Post by crl on Apr 21, 2007 2:30:52 GMT -6
Wheres the Guinness?´Little Fay with the Kahlua.
Highs and Lows...cope?
How many guys wake up in the middle of the night worrying about practice, a front ,did we miss something? Or are they ready?
It is hard to let go...I play video games, it keeps me away from thinking...and I have trouble doing that in itself.
Yes Broph I am in the Nam again...LINE OF SIGHT!
Saigon s**t, I´m back again...thumpa thumpa thumpa(huey sounds)
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Post by tvt50 on Apr 21, 2007 3:41:20 GMT -6
To me the questions is about stuff like- not coming to the weightroom, getting in trouble in class, bad grades, messing around at home.
I just try to remember that they are kids and they are gonna make mistakes. Here is something I like to say to myself.
"HE IS NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT"
I can also remember me doing a lot of these things and more. They have to have somebody their to tell them that they were wrong and lead them in the right path. Sure I like everybody on here has kids in prison and are probably drug addicts, but we were there to help and guide them. Even though now they are in bad situations.
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 21, 2007 8:21:28 GMT -6
As a young coach it always bothered me that the kids didn't seem to want it as much as I did. Then a wise old coach pointed out the obvious to me. He asked me how many of my high school playing team-mates became coaches? Answer = 2 including myself. The same thing could be said of most of our teams - very few of these kids will have the same passion that you do.
Another thing I learned over the years is not every senior is going to be ABLE to be a leader, so don't ask kids to do something that they cannot do! Look at everything you do and ask yourself, "Is this helping my team?" If the answer is YES then keep doing it! If you can't seem to decide (or the answer is no) then junk it!
Finally, you're a coach. Look at the alternatives. Would you rather be in a cubicle all day? Driving a beverage truck? Working in a factory? Come on! It's a great life! Embrace it! Hobbies? I'm a downhill skier living in South Florida! Outside of football it's the wife and kids - oh I forgot - wife and kids are PART of football! Bulldogoption - Get back in there and COACH THEM UP!
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 21, 2007 9:17:31 GMT -6
My staff recently came into a situation where there was no culture related to FB. New school in a new area that was growing rapidly. The culture was youth wrestling and baseball.
When we began to implement our program we knew we'd have to do it in stages or we would scare kids away. We are now going into our 3rd year and have been able to become more of a FB culture because we've tapped into what makes MOST kids motivated.
They love to be together and they don't like to let each other down. They will let themself down before they will let a schoolmate or teammate down. All kids love public recognition and we use our website for this all of the time!
We break all of our off-season stuff into teams and turn these teams into a way to compete with one another. The prize at the end is up to you. We track weekly points and give "victory points" to each team depending on what place they came in. Whoever has the most victory points (for us - the competition ends the day before Spring Ball starts) will be the "winning team"
Each player can earn up to 4 points daily for his team and we use T.E.A.M. as our acronym.
T = TIME - were you on time? yes = 1 points
E = EFFORT - did you give your team your best effort? 1 point
A = ATTITUDE = did you exhibit a championship attitude? 1 point
M = MANDATORY finish - Did you finish the last part of your workout with your team? = 1point
If kids are late - they could earn up to 3 points. (they must also let their team Captain know why they were late)
If kids leave early - they still, could earn up to 3 (but must tell their team Cap why they have to leave early
If they are late AND have to leave early - they could earn up to 2
Our prize is the winning team (10-12 guys) are waived from running our mid-August 5K. Not a big deal but kids will work hard just for bragging rights. Plus, we'll serve those guys lemonade and give 'em a shirt.
We try to do things like this to take the coaches out of the "bad guy" role. "Why aren't you lifting?" "Why aren't you committed?"
If kids can't rally around their teams during the off-season with some friendly competition, your probably won't be able to count on them in the Fall, either.
This approach is working for us. And to answer your initial question..... Some kids just won't respond and you can't take it personally.
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Post by phantom on Apr 21, 2007 9:45:00 GMT -6
As a young coach it always bothered me that the kids didn't seem to want it as much as I did. Then a wise old coach pointed out the obvious to me. He asked me how many of my high school playing team-mates became coaches? Answer = 2 including myself. The same thing could be said of most of our teams - very few of these kids will have the same passion that you do. Another thing I learned over the years is not every senior is going to be ABLE to be a leader, so don't ask kids to do something that they cannot do! Look at everything you do and ask yourself, "Is this helping my team?" If the answer is YES then keep doing it! If you can't seem to decide (or the answer is no) then junk it! Finally, you're a coach. Look at the alternatives. Would you rather be in a cubicle all day? Driving a beverage truck? Working in a factory? Come on! It's a great life! Embrace it! Hobbies? I'm a downhill skier living in South Florida! Outside of football it's the wife and kids - oh I forgot - wife and kids are PART of football! Bulldogoption - Get back in there and COACH THEM UP! In any profession in which you work with people you have to understand that some things are out of your hands. If you're a doctor patients will die. No matter how good a salesman is most of the people he contacts will not buy. Nature and free will make dealing with human beings a tricky business. Work ethic and willingness to accept coaching are skills, no different than foot speed or physical strength. A good coach can motivate players and sell his kids on the imporance of character. You'll never get 100%, though. If a kid doesn't have it in him you can't give it to him. It's tough because, as coaches, we believe that we bring out the best in players. It's true. We can. If you're going to stay in this business and keep your sanity, though, you have to understand that, ultimately, it's up to the players to do it. Coaches who don't take responsibility-those who always blame the kids- usually don't last long. Neither do guys who take all of the responsibility. |
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Post by brophy on Apr 21, 2007 19:31:46 GMT -6
as "teachers" - you present the material to the class and the class can either get "A"s, "B"s, "C"s...even "F"s...
as "coaches" - all our 'students' have to get "A"s .........or we're fired!
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Post by phantom on Apr 21, 2007 19:41:30 GMT -6
When I read David McCollough's bio of Harry Truman I was strucken by a sign that Truman had on his desk. The sign was a quote from a sign that had been posted by George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff during WW II and, later, Secretary of State and author of the Marshall Plan. It read, "Enlisted men may be entitled to morale problems. Officers are not. Every man in this department is responsible for his own morale. Nobody worries about my morale.". That stuck with me and I think that it's directly applicable to us as coaches.
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 21, 2007 22:35:38 GMT -6
phantom
Generally, that is LEADERSHIP in a nutshell. Nobody should worry about our morale.
That is why it is lonely at the top and I can see how many coaches can feel isolated when their players aren't buying in. I can't speak for others, but I've been there.
Just have to keep the nose to the grindstone and show the kids that you believe in them. Most will respond but some just won't. This doesn't mean we should stop trying. No different than in class, I just can't watch a student get a "D" or an "F." It's unacceptable and we have to find positive ways to make those relationships with those undermotivated or underachieving students AND athletes because that IS our job.
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Post by brophy on Apr 22, 2007 6:54:59 GMT -6
Personally, I think it is putting it all into perspective - don't sweat the small stuff. "Frustration" is a symptom of believing that you do not have the resources to provide an answer / solution. well, put it all into perspective..... 1) Did I teach the fundamentals?
2) Did I do my due diligence to get all the information I could about our opponent?
3) Did I devote enough practice time for the game plan used?
4) Did I review the situations we would be in the game with the players?
5) Given the facts / tendencies I had at the time, did I call the right play?
6) Did I put the players in a position to make a play? Sometimes the answers to those questions are "NO" and you win.....sometimes all the answers to those questions are "YES" and you lose. To be honest, sometimes its going to come down to a kid making a play or not....sometimes everything is set up correctly....but the opponent simply out-plays you.....whatcha gonna do? As a coach, all you can do is prepare your athletes - you can't actually PLAY the game, too. The biggest mantra after game night is always "Its never as GOOD as you remember and never as BAD as you think.....wait,and watch the film" |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2007 7:28:11 GMT -6
Just like we tell the players, you gotta be able to look at the man in the mirror and convince him that you did all you could.
It's all about ownership I think. Think about what we all say, "do the kids 'buy in'?" If someone buys in then they are thus an owner in it and with that comes responsibility. I think we need to convince our kids that buying in does not mean that they are just accepting what we are proposing to them, but that in doing so are now willing to carry off some of the blame when things go wrong and to humbly carry some glory when things go well.
Personally I think it opens a whole wide area of growth for your team. The guy that buys in is a running back who praises his OL in the paper, it's a DB who credits the DL and LBs for getting pressure so he can make a pick. It's a DC who talks about how hard his staff works. It's a QB who talks about the extra help he got from his coach.
I think it's about trusting your players as learners and yourself as a teacher. Every day on our script I have a play that I KNOW could put my safety in the worst possible spot, make him wrong, and make the boss ask me what's going on. So do you protect 'em? No, you teach them not to make that critical error and then praise them when they do it right.
For the coach it's accepting that even though we're tired and would love to watch that show on TV, we need to see that last bit of film. And we do it because we're owners and we owe it to the other owners.
So when you hit the bed at night you can tell the man in the mirror that you did everything you could. You can't fool him.
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 22, 2007 9:01:13 GMT -6
Following each game (after kids have spent some time with fans/parents) we go back to our locker room and we talk about what we learned during the week and from the game. We do this win or lose. Players give personal testimonials.
We then highlight 1 or 2 common themes that were shared, ie. lack of focus, learning their assignment better, being more intense throughout the week, how it paid off to do the extra drill work, etc.
Those common themes become goals for the next week.
We ask seniors to try their best to lead this discussion. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Not a big deal because the coaches can pick up the slack.
After losing to our rivals, the seniors were VERY quiet during our post game discussion. Finally, one of them stood up and asked if he could talk to the entire team. Typically, he is usually quiet. He gave a very emotional speech about being disgusted with himself and his fellow seniors because they didn't do everything they could to win tonight's game vs. their rivals. He said we played our butts off. However, we didn't do ALL of the things the coaches asked of us during the off-season since they were sophomores and they all knew it. He talked about how he once questioned coaches (in his mind) wondering if they knew what they were doing and how he now realizes how this has hurt his own development. He went on to say that they (his fellow seniors) deserved to lose and now they get to live with this the rest of their lives. He then went into how the underclassmen could avoid the feeling that he and his senior classmates would have forever. Believe your coaches and work hard during the off-season and do it together.
You could not have asked for a more important talk. This kid (who was about 50/50 in his off-season attendance) now comes to the weight room daily - even though he's done playing - and he does feel some ownership from what he is seeing. And that is a room full of football players working their butts off.
I've thanked him often because he left a huge impression in the minds of all of the underclassmen that were in the lockerroom that October evening.
The big thing was that his postgame message was 110% authentic and kids know the real deal when they see and hear it.
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Post by fbcoach33 on Apr 22, 2007 11:11:26 GMT -6
I would also say this, if it didnt bother you you probably should get out of coaching, I think its the highs and probably more the lows that keep us all sharp and wanting to work harder at it.
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 22, 2007 11:17:45 GMT -6
33
great point!
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 22, 2007 13:15:38 GMT -6
All great points and very much appreciated.
I feel better realizing that others have similar problems and deal with them.
As I get better as a coach or as our program gets better will I see a decrease in the number of "letdowns" by kids?
Is this, truly, what coaching is?
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Post by brophy on Apr 22, 2007 13:24:52 GMT -6
All great points and very much appreciated. I feel better realizing that others have similar problems and deal with them. As I get better as a coach or as our program gets better will I see a decrease in the number of "letdowns" by kids? Is this, truly, what coaching is? focus on developing a competitive environment in your program. Coaching is like parenting. You can't make the decisions or do the work your children HAVE to experience in their life, but you can mentor them, train them, role-play with them, so when the time comes they've experienced a pseudo-situation before. By encouraging competitiveness with ALL kids at ALL times (more teams WIN in the Fall because of what is done in the Spring) the kids will condition THEMSELVES to "make plays" to never give up, to drive themselves and each other to be accountable......and it won't come down to the coaches having to serve up plays on silver platters for you to win. Just my  We can ALWAYS perform better. There have been games we've lost that I was thoroughly impressed with the way our players executed. There have been games we've won that I couldn't sleep because of the player's performances. "highs" and "lows" are proportional to our realistic expectations of our athletes. I am sure I drink MORE when we win than I do when we lose. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2007 14:22:33 GMT -6
Good points Brophy. I'd add this about the coaching/parenting. Give them everything they need and half of what they want.
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