|
Post by threeback on Aug 31, 2007 23:44:11 GMT -6
Here is the situation. About 5:00 left in the game-up 48-15, we get a pick on defense and return it to the +30. I tell our O-line coach who relays the plays in that we are going to run 2-3 plays out of our base set with our reserves- if we break one, they are to fall down instead of running it in, and then we are going to kneel three straight times and punt. All told, we would have burned roughly three minutes off the clock. We could have scored easily with our reserves, as the team we were playing was very tired and mentally done. I did not want to run the score up, because when we first got here, we definitely got the score run up on us (we were horrible!!), and I would NEVER want to have another coach or kid to feel the way that we did those first couple of years. I come down from the box, and the head coach asks me what I am doing, and I explain. He says OK, but when we get back to the office, he tells me to run the offense with the reserves, and if we score, so be it. I disagree, and tell him that when an opponent is done, let it be and run the clock. At which point he brings up the teams that used to run it up on us. I then not so gently remind him of how we used to curse the coaches that would do that to us. I will not change my belief in this matter. What do you guys think?
|
|
|
Post by coachcoyote on Sept 1, 2007 0:23:53 GMT -6
Stick by your guns. All you'd be doing is showing you have no class. You don't have to run it up to prove how good you are.
|
|
|
Post by CoachDaniel on Sept 1, 2007 5:43:05 GMT -6
I think that putting the reserves in qualifies as not trying to run the score up. If you put the 2nd team in and they dominate, put the 3rd in. If they dominate, put the band in. But by pulling your starters you are not running the score up. It would be humiliating to me as a coach if your kid pops through a wide open hole, then falls down. Keep coaching, keep doing what you do, just don't keep doing it with the #1's if the game is done.
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Sept 1, 2007 7:03:35 GMT -6
Coach, Hats off to you. Takes a lot of strength to ignore whats been done to you and do whats right. Most times it doesnt change minds but sometimes it does. In 2002 took an 11-0 youth team to an extra game and got crushed 46-6, the other team was throwing it on last series of game to get to 50+. We shook hands, were cordial. NExt season take an 11-0 team there again, same team and coach, We were up 46-0 in third quarter, LEt off the gas big time. Final was 46-12. NExt season same guy is at my game scouting, I invite him to come on over to the sidelines, real friendly with him, joke around. We beat his team by 3 TDs 2 weeks later. NExt year an opposing coach is whining about "interlocking" (we never do it), guess who steps in with the refs to defend us. Yep the same guy that tried to crush us. Now his and my teams exchange a trophy at our yearly games, he is my mechanic and for the last 2 years they gave our kids free hot dogs and ice cream after the games. We have big laughs during our games, and help each other out with opposing teams. A little bit of honey so they say. HAd we pounded his team 70-0 doubt there would have been a different result. It's better for the kids and the league.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Sept 1, 2007 7:25:29 GMT -6
Here is the situation. About 5:00 left in the game-up 48-15, we get a pick on defense and return it to the +30. I tell our O-line coach who relays the plays in that we are going to run 2-3 plays out of our base set with our reserves- if we break one, they are to fall down instead of running it in, and then we are going to kneel three straight times and punt. All told, we would have burned roughly three minutes off the clock. We could have scored easily with our reserves, as the team we were playing was very tired and mentally done. I did not want to run the score up, because when we first got here, we definitely got the score run up on us (we were horrible!!), and I would NEVER want to have another coach or kid to feel the way that we did those first couple of years. I come down from the box, and the head coach asks me what I am doing, and I explain. He says OK, but when we get back to the office, he tells me to run the offense with the reserves, and if we score, so be it. I disagree, and tell him that when an opponent is done, let it be and run the clock. At which point he brings up the teams that used to run it up on us. I then not so gently remind him of how we used to curse the coaches that would do that to us. I will not change my belief in this matter. What do you guys think? I agree with your HC but not fo the same reasons that he used. Your backup kids are getting a chance to play and they deserve a chance to actually play the game. I think it's unfair to your backups to tell them to fall down instead of scoring a TD that may be the highlight of their career. If the other coach doesn't understand the difference between running it up and allowing your backups to score on a base run play then he needs to grow up. Your responsibility is to your team and your kids.
|
|
|
Post by coachmoore42 on Sept 1, 2007 7:53:18 GMT -6
I think that putting the reserves in qualifies as not trying to run the score up. If you put the 2nd team in and they dominate, put the 3rd in. If they dominate, put the band in. But by pulling your starters you are not running the score up. It would be humiliating to me as a coach if your kid pops through a wide open hole, then falls down. Keep coaching, keep doing what you do, just don't keep doing it with the #1's if the game is done. We just had something similar done to us. Reserves put in, still tacked on a final TD. My problem with it was that they went hurry up offense for the last two minutes just to make sure that they tacked on that last one. No hurry up offense from them all game...until those last two minutes (they were up 18-2 by the way). Is that still not trying to run up the score? Anyone with an opinion on this let's hear it.
|
|
|
Post by voodoocat on Sept 1, 2007 8:38:33 GMT -6
Here is the situation. About 5:00 left in the game-up 48-15, we get a pick on defense and return it to the +30. I tell our O-line coach who relays the plays in that we are going to run 2-3 plays out of our base set with our reserves- if we break one, they are to fall down instead of running it in, and then we are going to kneel three straight times and punt. All told, we would have burned roughly three minutes off the clock. We could have scored easily with our reserves, as the team we were playing was very tired and mentally done. I did not want to run the score up, because when we first got here, we definitely got the score run up on us (we were horrible!!), and I would NEVER want to have another coach or kid to feel the way that we did those first couple of years. I come down from the box, and the head coach asks me what I am doing, and I explain. He says OK, but when we get back to the office, he tells me to run the offense with the reserves, and if we score, so be it. I disagree, and tell him that when an opponent is done, let it be and run the clock. At which point he brings up the teams that used to run it up on us. I then not so gently remind him of how we used to curse the coaches that would do that to us. I will not change my belief in this matter. What do you guys think? Running up the score shows no class. One day it may come back to haunt you. I applaud your stance.
|
|
|
Post by lochness on Sept 1, 2007 8:41:34 GMT -6
You definitely did the right thing. No doubt in my mind...
|
|
|
Post by Yash on Sept 1, 2007 11:54:00 GMT -6
I agree, not to run up the score, but I don't think that telling a kid to fall down is the way to go. Run FB dive right up the middle. If the kid breaks it let him score. Give them a play that is easy to defend and hope that they tackle, but to fall down to me as an opposing coach, I'd rather have the kid score than watch a team just lay down for me. Kids still want to compete.
|
|
|
Post by utchuckd on Sept 1, 2007 15:17:17 GMT -6
I agree with your HC but not fo the same reasons that he used. Your backup kids are getting a chance to play and they deserve a chance to actually play the game. I think it's unfair to your backups to tell them to fall down instead of scoring a TD that may be the highlight of their career. If the other coach doesn't understand the difference between running it up and allowing your backups to score on a base run play then he needs to grow up. Your responsibility is to your team and your kids. I agree with phantom here. Just because you do score score doesn't mean you're running up the score. If you're letting your seconds and thirds run your offense and your not doing anything out of the ordinary to get more td's then it's on them to stop you. I've been blown out by plenty of teams and I'd rather a second or third team TB finish his run than fall down to keep from scoring.
|
|
|
Post by shotgun321 on Sept 1, 2007 16:50:24 GMT -6
I agree with phantom, if you put your reserves in and you run base plays to keep the clock running and score so be it. Those kids work hard all week and if get the chance to play they deserve it. I've been on that end plenty of times, reserves in first team defense still on the field and reserves score. I have never got mad at another coach for playing reserves and running their offense. I have a lot of respect for the game, been on those ends were their trying to run it up onside kick up 40. We've been on the inch line ready to score and kneeled on it. If get a chance to get my reserves in I want them to feel competition in game time situations
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Sept 1, 2007 17:01:25 GMT -6
I don't feel that it would be running up the score if you put your backups in and ran your base offense and those kids scored.
As an O/C, I'm going to try and get my youngsters and backups quality reps in a blowout game. Now, I'm not going to be slinging the ball all over the field and going no huddle, but we are going to run buck, belly, and double dive and get those kids work.
|
|
|
Post by dsqa on Sept 1, 2007 17:40:19 GMT -6
You are right coach, hold your position on this one.
Another option to think about...Depending on how much the reserves have already played, which you would hope they were already in before this point, but one way I have found to keep out of trouble is to kick field goals on early downs. It is like a punt, takes the least amount of points, and it gives the ball back nearly right away. We usually kicked right away on first down, if everyone had played a lot. If you need to get the reserves some more reps, run the FB dive a few times, and then kick, instead of scoring the TD. It is a statement to the other team that you are giving them the ball back, taking less points than you would have had otherwise. Now, in our case, we will practice long kicks if we can because our kicker is pretty good, but either way, it keeps you out of the endzone and from having to slap them with 3 knee drops, or "falling down" plays.
Most coaches know you are going to play to score, or to run something, and it doesn't bother them that you run basic plays with your backups. But, field goals on first down anywhere in the red zone, or even deeper, sends a clear message that you have called the dogs off. Just an opinion.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Sept 1, 2007 17:55:45 GMT -6
You are right coach, hold your position on this one. Another option to think about...Depending on how much the reserves have already played, which you would hope they were already in before this point, but one way I have found to keep out of trouble is to kick field goals on early downs. It is like a punt, takes the least amount of points, and it gives the ball back nearly right away. We usually kicked right away on first down, if everyone had played a lot. If you need to get the reserves some more reps, run the FB dive a few times, and then kick, instead of scoring the TD. It is a statement to the other team that you are giving them the ball back, taking less points than you would have had otherwise. Now, in our case, we will practice long kicks if we can because our kicker is pretty good, but either way, it keeps you out of the endzone and from having to slap them with 3 knee drops, or "falling down" plays. Most coaches know you are going to play to score, or to run something, and it doesn't bother them that you run basic plays with your backups. But, field goals on first down anywhere in the red zone, or even deeper, sends a clear message that you have called the dogs off. Just an opinion. I disagree. The second and third string kids condition, practice, and get the crap kicked out of them on scout teams. Why not let them have some fun?
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Sept 1, 2007 18:34:50 GMT -6
You are right coach, hold your position on this one. Another option to think about...Depending on how much the reserves have already played, which you would hope they were already in before this point, but one way I have found to keep out of trouble is to kick field goals on early downs. It is like a punt, takes the least amount of points, and it gives the ball back nearly right away. We usually kicked right away on first down, if everyone had played a lot. If you need to get the reserves some more reps, run the FB dive a few times, and then kick, instead of scoring the TD. It is a statement to the other team that you are giving them the ball back, taking less points than you would have had otherwise. Now, in our case, we will practice long kicks if we can because our kicker is pretty good, but either way, it keeps you out of the endzone and from having to slap them with 3 knee drops, or "falling down" plays. Most coaches know you are going to play to score, or to run something, and it doesn't bother them that you run basic plays with your backups. But, field goals on first down anywhere in the red zone, or even deeper, sends a clear message that you have called the dogs off. Just an opinion. Coach Slack - I respectfully disagree...I think that kicking the FG is rubbing it in because you are adding points to a blowout. I feel much better about putting my back-ups in and letting them play against the other team's starters (who are usually left in the game). Give your kids three running plays to get a first down and keep the clock moving and if they don't, punt the ball away.
|
|
|
Post by schultbear74 on Sept 1, 2007 19:01:48 GMT -6
I agree that you run your base offense with your seconds and thirds. I don't think that you help either team by running trick plays or going deep. I also believe that you have to put your seconds and thirds out there with the idea that they are going to score. I think that practicing your special teams on the opponent is more insulting. In the end, we want to make our kids and their kids better by teaching sound fundamentals and good sportsmanship- something that has always impressed me about the contributors to this site.
|
|
Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
|
Post by Shotgun1 on Sept 1, 2007 19:01:52 GMT -6
Putting your back ups in and running your offense is the way to go. Running the ball and trying to get first downs with the back ups is key, if they score it is OK because they are back ups and work hard in practice. I would not throw the ball and I would punt on 4th.
|
|
|
Post by threeback on Sept 1, 2007 19:35:49 GMT -6
Thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate it. One thing I left out was that our backup FB blew out his knee the night before, so we had absolutely no backup FB. If I would have called down, belly, trap, or any play with the FB, we would have popped it for a TD with our FB. Our two backup up wings can take it to the house at any time, and I absolutely did not want to throw the ball. The opposing coach, after receiving the punt, ran power toss three times, then QB sneaked it twice to run the clock out, so I feel good about the call that I made. Each time, the QB waited for the signal from the ref that 10 seconds were left on the playclock, so I know the opposing coach knew that we wanted the game to end. I appreciate the input, and will weigh what each of you have said should we be lucky enough to be put in this situation again this year.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Sept 1, 2007 20:23:46 GMT -6
No problem with a back up scoring on a base play in a blow out. As said many times before on here they deserve it just as much as your starters. I think its almost a slap in their face to tell them to fall down if they get a break away like they arent good enough to score, if your back ups are in and you are running your base stuff and the other team can't stop you.....not your problem. 90% of coaches know the diffrence between running it up and having some 3rd sting schlub score a late td. I don't know we always tell our kids to never give up and work hard and they will be rewarded in the end somehow telling a kid to fall down seems to send a msg of all that ahrd work was for nothing.
|
|
|
Post by CVBears on Sept 1, 2007 20:52:13 GMT -6
getting seconds and thirds PT is a good thing. if they score? not a big deal. they are suppose to compete, not play psychologist and make sure everyone's feelings are okay.
but then again, I come from a philosophy that throwing the ball with the 3/4 string QB and 3/4 string WR's is okay too IF that is the offense you run.
|
|
|
Post by coachjim on Sept 2, 2007 2:25:01 GMT -6
Our league put in a rule this year about blow-outs. At half time, if the score is lopsided, we meet with the other staff and discuss how we or they will make attempts to put in reserves or not let the blow out continue. That way, if our reserves still score, at least they are aware we made every attempt not to run up the score.
This was put in after a team leading by fifty points switched to a spread offense in the fourth quarter last year and went on to win by seventy. At the league coaches/officials meeting, I thought the coaches of both teams were gonna scrap. The animosity and hatred was palpable. Hopefully, the new rule will help give one side the opportunity to let the other know what reasonable attempts are being made to tone it down and the other a chance to hear it. I usually hate new rules but this one might actually help.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Sept 2, 2007 7:57:29 GMT -6
I like it because both sides are involved. Friday night we were up big and put our seconds in. We have some good kids as seconds but there's a big dropoff at some positions. The other guys left their firsts in and mauled us. We still won big but it left a bad taste. We'll see them again next year and we start a lot of underclassmen.
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Sept 2, 2007 8:28:54 GMT -6
Each time, the QB waited for the signal from the ref that 10 seconds were left on the playclock, so I know the opposing coach knew that we wanted the game to end. I think that is a classy move, as well.
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Sept 2, 2007 8:37:08 GMT -6
I think its almost a slap in their face to tell them to fall down if they get a break away like they arent good enough to score, if your back ups are in and you are running your base stuff and the other team can't stop you.....not your problem. I agree with this. At the previous school I was at, we were playing a team that we just totally outclassed. We had a senior TB who was within 40 yards of breaking the conference rushing record for a game (the record was 300 or something). Anyway, this kid had been out of the game since the third quarter when we got the word from a reporter that the kid only needed 40 yards to break the record. So, we put him back in but he was told to not score and run out of bounds or fall down if he broke a big one. Well, you just don't tell a kid like that to fall down or run out of bounds! Sure as shooting, first play the kid goes back in for (LATE in the 4th quarter of a game we were winning 49-7), he gets the ball on a sweep, gets to the open field, and 80 yards later, he is standing in the endzone with the closest defender about 30 yards away. Our head coach starts screaming at the kid for not running out of bounds and it got really ugly. I had a point in there somewhere, but I think I lost it! ;D
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Sept 2, 2007 9:03:06 GMT -6
By putting in the reserves and running the ball you have basically stated you are not trying to run it up. I would never tell a kid to fall down or run OB to avoid scoring. If he scores he scores. He earned the right to get into the game and by doing so if he scores he scores. (How would you like to deal with mom/dad of that kid who falls down instead of scoring?).
I have been on the wrong end of blowouts many times before and many times the other team's #2s have run an iso and gone to the house on my #1s so I know what getting blown up is like. But I never felt they tried to run it up by doing so. Now throwing a fade is another story LOL.
|
|
|
Post by coachjim on Sept 2, 2007 9:07:49 GMT -6
That's cool that you had a legend on your team. Those kids that you never forget (and not to mention usually make you look like a genius as well...) well you can't buy or train that...
I played with a team in 81 that had a legend who's td record for the season still stands to this day... sadly, he's a junkie now... but thats another story, alltogether...
Those times... memories... priceless...
Ya gotta let that kid score... no stopping fate, no subduing a legend, no mercy...
...i think, in that situation...
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Sept 2, 2007 14:36:57 GMT -6
1) play to win the game.
when that is secured...
2) play the backups in an effort to give them live reps running the offense (as you would with the first team, per se) in the event they have to step in should a starter get hurt down the road.
once you feel backups have sufficient reps ...
3) play the "ROY's" (i.e. Rest Of You) by running the most basic plays you have - and probably the few they can execute effectively anyway.
At no time are you trying to "run it up" but at the same time if scoring does occur using this "method" then that is merely a by-product of preparing the 2nd-teamers in case you need it or by allowing the 3rd-teamers to enjoy live game action that they rarely get.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2007 17:35:30 GMT -6
I would find it far more insulting to have an opponent take a knee or punt on first down. Just play with some back ups.
|
|
|
Post by coachcoyote on Sept 2, 2007 23:33:58 GMT -6
Running the score intentionally shows a lack of class IMO. Even if you dislike the opponent, you're showing the kids up. What are we trying to teach the kids? When you've whipped 'em, you've whipped 'em. Put in the other kids who get their brains beat in during practice and give some quality reps. If they score, so be it, just don't have them throwing bombs and running reverses. If you can't stop an iso, what more can you do?
|
|
|
Post by shamespiral on Sept 3, 2007 0:13:43 GMT -6
I think it depends. This week we got up and called the dogs off. Final 35-0. Next week said dogs will not be called off. It just all depends on the opponent.
|
|