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Post by coachrocco on Oct 13, 2013 23:14:18 GMT -6
Hey coaches, just to tell you a bit about my situation I am a first year modified assistant coach who is also the primary assistant helping our varsity head coach with the weight program (I also help coach OLine and DLine during varsities preseason). Our varsity team is 0-6, blown out in several games, and teetering on the edge of eligibility in most of our games (we have been between 17-20 all year depending on injuries). Our mod team is 1-4, but VERY young (we have a Mod A set up where Modified's grades 7-9 and Varsity is 10-12) with 4 9th graders, 12 8th graders and 11 7th graders. We are introducing our modified players into the weight program for the first time this year. For purposes of information for the advice I hope to be given by you far more experienced coaches, I coach class C upstate NY where schools have about 250-350 kids and 20-30 football players on any given team.
Our school has never gotten guys in the weight room in the past, when I played here it was true and it has been true for years. At this point it's seriously inhibiting our ability to win because our guys are so physically weak. I feel like we have to get our guys in the weight room if we want any chance of winning, but our older players particularly seem apathetic (though our mods are quite enthusiastic). How have you coaches gotten your guys in the weight room in the past? I'm going into my 2nd off season and am really trying to help remedy the fact that we have no plan for incentivizing these kids to lift.
The other question I have is how much improvement can I exactly expect from a well structured off season strength and conditioning program record wise? I'm pretty inexperienced at this point so I really have no idea the answer to this question. Could getting an improved (maybe 10 varsity player and 15 modified player) turn out turn a 2-7/1-8 varsity team into a 5-4 team? A 6-3 team? Also, when it comes to the modified kids, if they commit to the weight room with that sort of turn out right now how far can I realistically expect that to go in turning our teams into winning ones down the road? I just want to know what expectations are realistic going forward. Thanks coaches!
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Post by carookie on Oct 14, 2013 0:03:43 GMT -6
Does your state/district/school allow you to mandate off season workouts. Ive always had a minimum number of workouts players needed to make; of course with numbers as low as yours that could be risky.
If the whip isnt an option, try the carrot- have rewards for making certain marks, publicly display the top lifters. Put players in groups and reward those that make the biggest gains in a given cycle. Get dreative and have fun, make the weight room the place to be (as long as you arent sacrificing the actual work being done in there).
As for improvement, thats hard to say. Im gonna assume all those teams who are beating you already have a system in place. Continually their upperclassmen have several years as opposed ot just one hitting the weights and the track, so just one year probably won't put you on equal footing. But after a couple years you should balance the scales athletically, in which case Ws and Ls will be more up to your ability to get your players to execute technique and get them to have a proper attitude towards the sport.
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 14, 2013 12:14:58 GMT -6
We cannot mandate offseason workouts in New York, they must be voluntary. I love your idea about publicly displaying the top lifters, it'll play to their egos and that is often an effective way to motivate a teenage boy. I am glad to hear that a couple of years will be effective in helping our situation if done right, that is why I am looking at our 7-9 grade team and thinking that by the time those 9th graders are seniors we can be pretty darn good (the team has quite a bit of talent on it despite their record, there is just a lot of inexperience). I'll try to think of some fun competitions we can do to make the weight room more fun for the kids also, any ideas in that regard?
You are correct to assume that the teams who are beating us have real off season programs, which is a huge part of our problem. We have 5 teams in our division, and coaches from 3 of our 4 opponents (the 3 who are all 4-2 right now) reporting close to 20 kids in the weight room. I am convinced we cannot compete if our guys arent lifting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 12:27:50 GMT -6
Start playing the guys who show up. You don't have to say a word, and you will lose some people, talented people, But hard work cannot be replaced, People willing to go hard/work hard is priceless.
after next season, you wont have to worry about people not showing up, the word will be out of the players mouths these work outs are mandatory.
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 14, 2013 12:32:06 GMT -6
Start playing the guys who show up. You don't have to say a word, and you will lose some people, talented people, But hard work cannot be replaced, People willing to go hard/work hard is priceless. after next season, you wont have to worry about people not showing up, the word will be out of the players mouths these work outs are mandatory. As sad as this question is....what happens if I dont get 11 guys who show up? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 12:38:29 GMT -6
Start playing the guys who show up. You don't have to say a word, and you will lose some people, talented people, But hard work cannot be replaced, People willing to go hard/work hard is priceless. after next season, you wont have to worry about people not showing up, the word will be out of the players mouths these work outs are mandatory. As sad as this question is....what happens if I dont get 11 guys who show up? The guys who show up get preferential treatment when fall ball starts.... they are the guys that get their jersies first, they are first in line at the meal table if you have one....if the kid who show is neck and neck at a position with another, the kid who showed gets that job..... All you want to do is establish that Hard work in your program will pay off. Do it by the number of work outs they attend....let everybody that wants to come out, come out...by all means...but the kids who showed to do the hard stuff will treated like kings.... Talent will show up, but talent that wont work is just as worthless as the kid with no talent. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 12:44:30 GMT -6
and you don't have to say anything about it. It will become known by players with word of mouth when the same guys get everything first, get all the preferential, including playing time....If you have 5 guys that show up, those 5 start and play....you can fill in the rest with whomever shows up....but hard work is rewarded at every corner. That will breed competition amongst the players. And you don't say a word about what it is, or that workouts are mandatory....It will be known.
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Post by playsmart on Oct 14, 2013 12:54:04 GMT -6
There is not going to be a magic formula to getting kids to buy into a weight program. The key is having a good sells pitch and once you get them there you got to keep them engaged and wanting to come back.
For the sells pitch, there are a few things you need. You need motivation (Both from a team aspect and for each individual). You also need to tell them why it is important and why they are doing what they are doing.
After you get them there you got to keep them engaged. 1 of the best ways I think of keeping them engage to too make sure they are constantly pushed and there is not a lot of down time. One good way to push them is to make sure there is a lot of competition (be creative with this). After the initial way of enthusiasm is gone you are going to need to have some kind of incentive for them to strive for (prizes, recognition, etc.)
Each place is different and each place is going to require a different recipe for success.
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 14, 2013 12:58:36 GMT -6
I think this is a great idea, I will pass all of this along to our varsity head coach. I think this can work especially well with our modified players where we'll have 23 guys coming back next year and 11 guys coming up. Thanks for the fantastic advice!
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 14, 2013 13:03:42 GMT -6
There is not going to be a magic formula to getting kids to buy into a weight program. The key is having a good sells pitch and once you get them there you got to keep them engaged and wanting to come back. For the sells pitch, there are a few things you need. You need motivation (Both from a team aspect and for each individual). You also need to tell them why it is important and why they are doing what they are doing. After you get them there you got to keep them engaged. 1 of the best ways I think of keeping them engage to too make sure they are constantly pushed and there is not a lot of down time. One good way to push them is to make sure there is a lot of competition (be creative with this). After the initial way of enthusiasm is gone you are going to need to have some kind of incentive for them to strive for (prizes, recognition, etc.) Each place is different and each place is going to require a different recipe for success. Absolutely, one of our problems is that we have never been successful in this department, but in the old days it didn't seem to matter because our opponetns didnt have guys lifting either. It's only in the last 6-7 years we've seen our opponents offseason programs improve dramatically and our program begin to falter. We have to change the culture somehow. Right now my sales pitch to my mod kids is that they can be a great football team next year if they all get in the weight room, and that they should set the goal right now to go undefeated next season, they seem to be responding to that in terms of verbal feedback. I think it's gonna be a harder sell to the varsity kids because next year is likely to be another down year. I wonder if something to the effect of "if you don't get in the weight room you'll have another year like this next season" would do anything. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2013 13:49:51 GMT -6
including 7th & 8th graders into the lifting program is the best decision you'll ever make.
Post-season meeting with players: Get EVERYONE considering football to show up for a 1 hour meeting. Layout what is required to win (weight room). Get their names, numbers, emails....If you have a limited number of juniors, just take them to the State championship game and get them interested in what the game CAN be.
Post-season meeting with coaches: Let your staff know the expectations of being a coach in your program. The 2014 is just starting. Put them in charge of lifting sessions and let them know what the calendar will look like for the next 12 months. You guys are going to XYZ clinic in January, everyone is going (period). The key to your off-season program will be the participation % of your coaches.
Another follow-up meeting with coaches during the bowl games to list every single available player in your program. Cement what you're doing on offense/defense and stick to it. Where do those players fit in with that system?
Nov - Jan: Core lifts, keep it simple...focus on instruction. Go as far as bringing in personal trainers for a session or two just to hammer home the message of proper form. Work the community to get donations/sponsorships for T-shirts, swag, outings. Start contacting every kid that showed up for that meeting and see where they are at. Be a bill collector and hound them about their commitment.
*put up a BIG records board in your weight room. All the core lifts broken down by weight class. Get the kids' names on the board when they max
Feb - May: Heavy cleans / squats....alternate plyos into the routine and start your monthly strongman competitions (T-shirt for each weight class winner). Start ramping up the guys that are showing up into community service (for the summer). When the weather gets nice, go toss the ball around after lifting. In addition to strongman, plan a monthly activity (bowling, Madden, tennis, basketball, etc) whatever....get them focused on competing in anything. MAX every 3 months, mandatory attendance.
Take the kids that are attending to the local spring college game and go as a group. You need your coaches supporting this....you need parents supporting this.
June - August: this should be about getting them to peak come August....incorporate more speed work and don't "practice", but gather the kids and explain their defense/offense (okay, it IS practice....sssshhh)
July - August: Team camp.....get the kids out to a 7on7 competition or to a TEAM camp that does more for bonding than any real football benefit (since it doesn't count toward regular season).
will you win more games? I dunno....it sure won't hurt, but with this you will at least have a TEAM and not just a bunch of athletes in uniform.
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Post by newhope on Oct 15, 2013 10:04:52 GMT -6
You've got to convince them (and their parents) how important it is to your program. If you can't, you're done. The best way to get it done from a weight room standpoint is to get them into a weightlifting class during the day. This eliminates worrying about getting them in the afternoon--conflicts with other sports, etc. To do this, you've got to have an administration who will do what it takes from a scheduling standpoint to make it work; you've got to get the parents to buy in so that they sign off on getting their sons in those classes, and you've got to convince the players they need to be in them.
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Post by brophy on Oct 15, 2013 10:24:06 GMT -6
You've got to convince them (and their parents) how important it is to your program. If you can't, you're done. The best way to get it done from a weight room standpoint is to get them into a weightlifting class during the day. This eliminates worrying about getting them in the afternoon--conflicts with other sports, etc. To do this, you've got to have an administration who will do what it takes from a scheduling standpoint to make it work; you've got to get the parents to buy in so that they sign off on getting their sons in those classes, and you've got to convince the players they need to be in them. the operative question for the OP is HOW? |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Oct 17, 2013 13:36:40 GMT -6
We all know the importance of building your team in the weightroom. But as Brophy so eloquently stated, "HOW?"
I've done this many ways. The latest "trick" that worked came about accidently. I hired a couple of young assistants not long out of college. They wanted to work out also. (I can't work out anymore because I'm old and crabby) But, these guys got in there and the kids bought into it with them. It was one of the easiest "schemes" I've tried.
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tman
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Post by tman on Oct 18, 2013 7:43:55 GMT -6
I think the idea of keeping leaderboards for bests on particular lifts was mentioned. You should simply get a dry erase board and write down the leaders for the squat, deadlift, bench press, and pullup. If you have all 4 it balances things out so the tall guy with the long torso and arms can excel at deadlift, the short stocky guy can excel at squat and bench press, the scrawny guy can excel at the pullup. You can divide it further into weight classes if you want.
This isn't childish either, this is how it's done at the highest levels of powerlifting. I've never been in Westside Barbell but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that's how they do it.
I'm commenting more on the weightlifting aspect here than the coaching aspect, I'm not a coach other than helping out in youth football and coaching my son.
My personal experience with strength training is that my best results come from judging my progress by those 4 exercises and viewing other exercises as accessory work to bring those lifts up.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 18, 2013 10:43:46 GMT -6
don't be afraid to mix up the routine, so that kids get bored
find a way to have regular competitions and they don't necessarily have to be related to lifting or football
having a short/modified lift followed by:
tug-o-war
fat man relay around the track
tractor tire flipping contest
shopping cart relays
car tire pushing contests
car tire tugs
slap back
sock wrestling
dodge ball
you're only limited by your imagination, you'll be surprised how hard kids will work when you pit one versus another
also you can give out simple rewards for winners
Popsicles
candy bars
sports drinks
gum
candy
KK doughnuts
also another incentive is to put each kid in a work out group that doesn't change, they'll learn real quick whom they can count on when they're always a man short in the tug-o-war contest, plus it is a great way for them to push each other
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2013 11:01:44 GMT -6
Hey coaches, just to tell you a bit about my situation I am a first year modified assistant coach who is also the primary assistant helping our varsity head coach with the weight program (I also help coach OLine and DLine during varsities preseason). Our varsity team is 0-6, blown out in several games, and teetering on the edge of eligibility in most of our games (we have been between 17-20 all year depending on injuries). Our mod team is 1-4, but VERY young (we have a Mod A set up where Modified's grades 7-9 and Varsity is 10-12) with 4 9th graders, 12 8th graders and 11 7th graders. We are introducing our modified players into the weight program for the first time this year. For purposes of information for the advice I hope to be given by you far more experienced coaches, I coach class C upstate NY where schools have about 250-350 kids and 20-30 football players on any given team. Our school has never gotten guys in the weight room in the past, when I played here it was true and it has been true for years. At this point it's seriously inhibiting our ability to win because our guys are so physically weak. I feel like we have to get our guys in the weight room if we want any chance of winning, but our older players particularly seem apathetic (though our mods are quite enthusiastic). How have you coaches gotten your guys in the weight room in the past? I'm going into my 2nd off season and am really trying to help remedy the fact that we have no plan for incentivizing these kids to lift. The other question I have is how much improvement can I exactly expect from a well structured off season strength and conditioning program record wise? I'm pretty inexperienced at this point so I really have no idea the answer to this question. Could getting an improved (maybe 10 varsity player and 15 modified player) turn out turn a 2-7/1-8 varsity team into a 5-4 team? A 6-3 team? Also, when it comes to the modified kids, if they commit to the weight room with that sort of turn out right now how far can I realistically expect that to go in turning our teams into winning ones down the road? I just want to know what expectations are realistic going forward. Thanks coaches! Why are they not coming? Are there a lot who play spring and winter sports? How is your inseason lifting program? You can't control what they do in the offseason but you have complete control now. Get them lifting heavy three times a week even if it means that you need to cut some practice time. When they start to get stronger it may motivate them. It will also show that you think it's important. As for motivating them for the offseason I believe that kids respond to honesty. Call a team meeting BEFORE the season ends (when mandatory really means mandatory) and tell them what you told us. You're getting beaten because the other teams are just plain physically stronger than you. Make a Power Point with the facts that you've presented here. Have a slde for each of your opponents, showing their weight room numbers, record, and score against you. Tell them that if they want to stop losing they need to work harder. |
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 19, 2013 22:43:43 GMT -6
Why are they not coming? Are there a lot who play spring and winter sports? How is your inseason lifting program? You can't control what they do in the offseason but you have complete control now. Get them lifting heavy three times a week even if it means that you need to cut some practice time. When they start to get stronger it may motivate them. It will also show that you think it's important. As for motivating them for the offseason I believe that kids respond to honesty. Call a team meeting BEFORE the season ends (when mandatory really means mandatory) and tell them what you told us. You're getting beaten because the other teams are just plain physically stronger than you. Make a Power Point with the facts that you've presented here. Have a slde for each of your opponents, showing their weight room numbers, record, and score against you. Tell them that if they want to stop losing they need to work harder. It's a combination of our winter and spring sports not really lifting (though our spring track program does) and our guys just plain being apathetic. I feel like they think they're just not talented enough so it wouldn't matter, but that is not the case at all, so I think part of it is convincing them that the hard work will pay off. I think your advice about the meeting is some of the best I've gotten on this thread. I've been telling my mod kids at least a couple times a week that this is why our varsity kids don't win, the brutal honesty approach is the one I've been trying. I think suggesting it to our varsity kids is a great idea. I'll get started on the power point right now! |
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Post by coachrocco on Oct 19, 2013 22:44:26 GMT -6
I should mention that we lift after practices so guys who don't lift in sports can lift with us, they just don't come.
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Post by coach2013 on Oct 20, 2013 3:42:10 GMT -6
Kids who do not lift ultimately do not care enough about football. Usually if football isnt their number one sport you are going to have to get the kids who love football most to be your core guys.
We have really changed and improved our schools program by using tee shirts and sweatshirts (kids love "hoodies") as incentives for both attendance and performance.
The system of rewarding attendance early in the off season brings them in, then rewarding peformance (meeting mile stones) keeps them there. We have also come up with some helmet stickers to recognize off season attendance and performance and this is an inseason reminder to all on whos been involved.
We tie attendance and performance to captain status as well.
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Post by 42falcon on Oct 20, 2013 19:33:56 GMT -6
Here is how we did it:
We posted testing results in the weightroom so all could see. On the same sheet was an attendance tracker. Students that showed up for 80% or more of the sessions:
-single locker
-first pick of jersey #, gear, extra stuff (spirit pack wise)
-eligible team captain
-leadership council
It is a tough sled at first we had this to. You need to approach it with the mentality that you will lose some kids right off the bat some good ones as well guys who you think are studs. You NEED to be prepared to do this if you are not then well continue to reap the rewards..
You will be better in the long run, you will take some lumps right away but if you stay the course your core of leaders will be better. That is what counts the leadership of the group. Any time we get a chance to play a kid who is in the 80% we do. This has changed our culture.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 23, 2013 19:07:45 GMT -6
Also try the six pack effect. Encourage/let your ones that are the hard core lifters strut around and show off their muscles as is appropriate. Don't think 16 year old males aren't body image concerned less than females....
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