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Post by vassdiddy on Jul 10, 2007 9:51:04 GMT -6
Hey guys,
What exactly do you have your spotter do on gameday? What are the things you have them look for?
-Vass
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Post by cqmiller on Jul 10, 2007 10:31:21 GMT -6
Looks for alignments in the front 7 that are different than we prepared for during the week, as well as if the DB's begin cheating up on the run or out of their zone...
Spotter is always good to see WHO did something really bad that cost us (like a LB overrunning, or a FB who missed a LB up the middle)
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Post by lochness on Jul 10, 2007 11:09:51 GMT -6
Wow, excellent question. At my last posting, where I was the OC, my spotters typically did EXACTLY the following:
1. Yell at a player for missing a block (from the pressbox).
2. Yell at the QB (from the pressbox).
3. Make brilliant suggestions like "we need to run outside more," and "we can't throw the ball worth a crap!"
4. Give me dead air after I ask "who made the tackle on that last play?" or "Was the strongside tackle head up or shaded?" until I repeat the question 3 times, each time getting more and more loud, only to finally scream back at me "I DON'T KNOW COACH!!!"
5. Provide ear splitting cheering, like yelling "GO! GO! GO! GOOOOO!" when we break off a big play.
6. Provide excellent feedback like "We OBVIOUSLY can't run that play anymore" after getting stopped for a loss.
7. Telling me, "They're gonna blitz coach!!" as their ILB creeps up into our B gap seconds before the snap (gee thanks, let me check off to my hot route)
8. Break up into a cloud of static and interference as our headseats fail yet again.
(And YES, we clearly outline the actual expectations to our pressbox spotters every summer.)
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 10, 2007 11:18:01 GMT -6
Play calling wise: Front alignments (box), cushions (secondary), coverage & rotations (secondary) and individual matchups (secondary). Depending on the relationship with the OC, having a run/pass play read for the following down, or having a suggestion ready-depends on who's calling the shots and if they want suggestions or just raw data. As far as watching our personnel (second spotter): Our alignments (formations) Made/Missed assignments, who's hustling, who's not. Third spotter (if you have one): Track our tendencies by field position and down/distance and their tendencies. If you have only one or two spotters, you'll have to cover the most important and try to catch the others as you can. Obviously this is from an offensive point of view....LOL, when we are on defense I go get a Hot Dog, coke, maybe some popcorn...... Generally on defense, first spotter is watching the box defenders, second spotter is watching secondary and third is tracking their offense.
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Post by spartancoach on Jul 10, 2007 11:46:21 GMT -6
Calls the plays.
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Post by deaux68 on Jul 10, 2007 12:44:33 GMT -6
I usually stay as quiet as possible unless asked a question or I see something in the way they are playing us.
We have a coach on the field that does exactly as lochness said. The guy knows very little about football and it drives me nuts.
My favorite thing for a spotter to say is, "hey coach so and so was wide open." Well no crap. These guys obviously never lined up behind the center.
I love when we rollout one way and the guys screams, "he's open, he's open" about a guy all the way on the backside of the route.
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Post by brophy on Jul 10, 2007 12:54:14 GMT -6
Wow, excellent question. At my last posting, where I was the OC, my spotters typically did EXACTLY the following: 1. Yell at a player for missing a block (from the pressbox). 2. Yell at the QB (from the pressbox). 3. Make brilliant suggestions like "we need to run outside more," and "we can't throw the ball worth a crap!" 4. Give me dead air after I ask "who made the tackle on that last play?" or "Was the strongside tackle head up or shaded?" until I repeat the question 3 times, each time getting more and more loud, only to finally scream back at me "I DON'T KNOW COACH!!!" 5. Provide ear splitting cheering, like yelling "GO! GO! GO! GOOOOO!" when we break off a big play. 6. Provide excellent feedback like "We OBVIOUSLY can't run that play anymore" after getting stopped for a loss. 7. Telling me, "They're gonna blitz coach!!" as their ILB creeps up into our B gap seconds before the snap (gee thanks, let me check off to my hot route) 8. Break up into a cloud of static and interference as our headseats fail yet again. (And YES, we clearly outline the actual expectations to our pressbox spotters every summer.) I must've been on the same staff. I am not comfortable (as a coordinator) putting my a%% in the hands of guys who can't give me the information that is most vital to our situation. Honestly, I feel that if I "NEED" to be on the sideline during the game, then I haven't done my job during the week. In the box, what I am looking for is; 1) COUNT 11 players - duh.....
2) personnel - are particular players coming in the game that will tip the hat of what will be run next ?
3) D&D - accurate spotting information to determine where the ball will be placed and what we may need to run based on their tendency
4) Aligning correctly - if people aren't lined up correctly (shows a coaching point that needs to occur on the sideline) - exposes where we will be vulnerable
5) Matchups - if there is a game-time matchup we could utilize not previously seen in our game planning the week prior.
6) Top tendency for situation - (Referring to the tendency sheet in the controlled environment of the box) what have we GAME-PLANNED (practiced) all week for this situation (what are we expecting to be run / what have we prepared to run in this situation)?
7) Injury / Potential Injury to our player (give direct instruction of who is replacing whom)
usually, though if you have a guy in the box, you have him read THIS like a script, like a robot. 1) Where the ball is spotted 2) Any personnel changes 3) Formation presented / Coverage shell presented 4) WHO made the tackle (for OC) The guy in the box should spout this off irregardless if the HC/Coord. asks for it. Just get the information as quickly as possible. Give the guy on the field the information he may not readily have - give him the logistic advantage the box offers
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Post by wingman on Jul 10, 2007 14:02:34 GMT -6
I agree that # 1 Tell me where the ball is: Hash, Down & Distance, Yardline # 2 Watch what you are supposed to be watching so if I ask what did DE do, you can tell me. I have found the offensive line to be the best source of information for what front they are in. BUT they have to be trained. We line up trash cans in different fronts and I ask them what are you going to say when I ask "What are you getting?" Answer from OG " A 3 technique penetrating" or " a 3 tech and a stacked backer" etc.
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Post by threeback on Jul 10, 2007 14:20:48 GMT -6
As a coordinator, I feel that I have to be in the box to get the best overall picture of what the defense is doing, how they are aligning, and what coverage they are in. Things I look for from the box: 1. Front (is it different from scouting, does it change according to situational purposes, personnel, etc.) 2. LBs- on any play, how they react. Fast flowing playside, slow playing backside, etc. 3. Secondary- Coverage, as well as how their coverage changes by down.
Find the dual responsibility players. With the offense that we run (Wing T), it is essential for us to find a player that has a dual responsibility and exploit that responsibility. Whether it be a standup LB in the 50, a run support safety in a 4-3, or a contain/gap player. We usually designate the #4 defender playside past the center as our key to what offensive play we are going to call, and let his actions dictate the next play- unless they have 10 on the line blitzing their tails off.
I always make it a point to have a checklist next to me with our defensive terminology so that I can quickly check off the front, coverage, and any blitzes they are sending next to the down and distance so that I can try to anticipate the DC's next move in the next series. Our O-line is smart as hell as far as reading techs and how the d-line are playing them. My head swam the first time I was in the box, with the head coach screaming and everything felt like it was going to fast for me, but after a couple of games, things slowed down for me.
BTW- I have heard from upstairs when I was on the sideline- "My gosh, we suck." "# such and such is the slowest human being I have ever seen." "Holy sh-t, # such and such is the worst football player I have ever seen." Makes for a long game.
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Post by easye17 on Jul 10, 2007 14:50:21 GMT -6
I'm an OC and I much rather be on the field personally. I like to talk with the kids and see them up close and get their body language, attitude, etc.
For our guy in the box, its mostly stuff that many others have said - alignment, DL techniques, blitzes, coverages, etc. But most important is down and distance and the yardline. We had problems early on with a guy who was new to the box and actually told our HC the wrong yardline (on a field with now numbers) and we ended up punting on a 4th and 2 from the opponents 30. For us on offense, the difference between 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 1/2 yard is big and we need to know as quickly as possible just where the ref is spotting it.
The thing our spotter doesn't do - as Al Borgas once said - he's not allowed to get the runs. "Coach, run this play" "Coach run that play". Only one play caller on the staff and its not him. Have a play ready if I ask, but don't have the runs ...
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Post by flycoach on Jul 10, 2007 15:02:19 GMT -6
Wow, excellent question. At my last posting, where I was the OC, my spotters typically did EXACTLY the following: 1. Yell at a player for missing a block (from the pressbox). 2. Yell at the QB (from the pressbox). 3. Make brilliant suggestions like "we need to run outside more," and "we can't throw the ball worth a crap!" 4. Give me dead air after I ask "who made the tackle on that last play?" or "Was the strongside tackle head up or shaded?" until I repeat the question 3 times, each time getting more and more loud, only to finally scream back at me "I DON'T KNOW COACH!!!" 5. Provide ear splitting cheering, like yelling "GO! GO! GO! GOOOOO!" when we break off a big play. 6. Provide excellent feedback like "We OBVIOUSLY can't run that play anymore" after getting stopped for a loss. 7. Telling me, "They're gonna blitz coach!!" as their ILB creeps up into our B gap seconds before the snap (gee thanks, let me check off to my hot route) 8. Break up into a cloud of static and interference as our headseats fail yet again. (And YES, we clearly outline the actual expectations to our pressbox spotters every summer.) GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! Idiots. I was on that staff last year.
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Post by bulldogoption on Jul 10, 2007 15:11:27 GMT -6
Wow, excellent question. At my last posting, where I was the OC, my spotters typically did EXACTLY the following: 1. Yell at a player for missing a block (from the pressbox). 2. Yell at the QB (from the pressbox). 3. Make brilliant suggestions like "we need to run outside more," and "we can't throw the ball worth a crap!" 4. Give me dead air after I ask "who made the tackle on that last play?" or "Was the strongside tackle head up or shaded?" until I repeat the question 3 times, each time getting more and more loud, only to finally scream back at me "I DON'T KNOW COACH!!!" 5. Provide ear splitting cheering, like yelling "GO! GO! GO! GOOOOO!" when we break off a big play. 6. Provide excellent feedback like "We OBVIOUSLY can't run that play anymore" after getting stopped for a loss. 7. Telling me, "They're gonna blitz coach!!" as their ILB creeps up into our B gap seconds before the snap (gee thanks, let me check off to my hot route) 8. Break up into a cloud of static and interference as our headseats fail yet again. (And YES, we clearly outline the actual expectations to our pressbox spotters every summer.) This is so !@# !@#$ funny...... I remember one staff we played against that were great at calling out the plays as they were developing......Here comes the sweep!!!! To answer the question. 1) What are the techniques of the DLine we are facing. 2) How are they changing their looks based on D&D. 3) Who made the tackle or in other words, who !@#$@^ up the last play for us (i.e. who missed their assignment)
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Post by wingtol on Jul 10, 2007 16:04:03 GMT -6
I am in a unique situation as I am in the box for our games along with our QB/DB coach. Our HC is also the OC but relies on us a ton since we have the best vantage point. We do all the normal stuff like what front/coverage/are they running with motion/how many in the box...all the normal stuff. But at the same time I would say we also call about 35% of our plays from the box based on our suggestions and what we are seeing from up there.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 10, 2007 19:03:53 GMT -6
Like many of you, I have been on staffs with those brilliant nuggets coming down from the box (as a young coach, I was the one doing the talking!). Right now I have a pretty good spotter who gives us -
1. Strength. Where is the dive hole? 2. Match Ups. Who is dominating - for us or them.
2nd quarter and 2nd half we are looking for tendancies and situational calls based on their notes.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 10, 2007 19:07:18 GMT -6
One other thing that might get overlooked sometimes is the communication from the field to the box. I know 2 season ago we had old crappy push to talk phones and would never get the play call in the box so we had no idea what to watch for. Now we have open mic ones but sometimes we still dont know what the next play is just with everything going on so I think that is also an aspect that should be remembered, sideline to box.
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Post by beatdown on Jul 10, 2007 19:18:18 GMT -6
What I've done in the pas as a spotter is when on offense record D&D, yard line, hash etc, as well as what we ran. This gave our OC a good idea as to our own tendacies and what plays were succesful. Also was usually able to pick up wat coverage and front adjustments they make.
On defense did the same thing including their play and our defensive call. As well as trying o get the offeses personel grouping. We also had a coach in the box with the breakdown of what the O likes to do based on film breakdown.
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Post by tog on Jul 10, 2007 19:52:47 GMT -6
im the oc im the spotter
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Post by lochness on Jul 10, 2007 20:33:02 GMT -6
That's really the best way to go. The problem for me was, sometimes when I was in the pressbox our sweet headseats would fail, and nobody on the sideline could figure out what their name was. Also, sometimes I'd call a play like "34 Lead Draw" and our sideline guy would give the QB "44 Lead Draw," which would make me lose my mind and scream at the top of my lungs, "WE DON'T HAVE A F-ING '44 LEAD DRAW'...WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A '4 BACK' IN OUR OFFENSIVE TERMINOLOGY!!!!" After that season, the HC decided I could best contribute to the success of the team from the sidline.
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Post by tog on Jul 10, 2007 20:38:58 GMT -6
That's really the best way to go. The problem for me was, sometimes when I was in the pressbox our sweet headseats would fail, and nobody on the sideline could figure out what their name was. Also, sometimes I'd call a play like "34 Lead Draw" and our sideline guy would give the QB "44 Lead Draw," which would make me lose my mind and scream at the top of my lungs, "WE DON'T HAVE A F-ING '44 LEAD DRAW'...WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A '4 BACK' IN OUR OFFENSIVE TERMINOLOGY!!!!" After that season, the HC decided I could best contribute to the success of the team from the sidline. been there loch whenever our headsets went down, which was only once i came runnin down the stairs
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Post by coachdjenkins on Jul 10, 2007 21:02:33 GMT -6
Last season I did both called plays for Pressbox first half the season, and from the field the second half. Believe being in the box gives a playcaller a good picture of everything going on, but I am the S.O.B. on their butt all week long and they respond much better with me on the sideline. Plus I feel that I am able to calm the QB, and keep him focused. Don't believe the move would have worked without having a coach that I have 100% confidence in on the other end of the head set.
WR Coach is the Press Box now -- (Offense on the Field) 1.) Down & Distance 2.) Hash 3.) Yard Line 4.) Watching for Substitions (Personel & Injuries) 5.) Checking for tendencies 6.) First few series checking alignment of D in certain looks 7.) Match-Ups 8.) Reminds me of a situational plays from call sheet or notes from between series 9.) Charting each play
Between Possessions 1.) Discuss tendencies 2.) Match-ups 3.) Injuries 4.) Review Call Sheet 5.) Discuss next series
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Post by brophy on Jul 10, 2007 21:24:51 GMT -6
That's really the best way to go. The problem for me was, sometimes when I was in the pressbox our sweet headseats would fail, and nobody on the sideline could figure out what their name was. Also, sometimes I'd call a play like "34 Lead Draw" and our sideline guy would give the QB "44 Lead Draw," which would make me lose my mind and scream at the top of my lungs, "WE DON'T HAVE A F-ING '44 LEAD DRAW'...WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A '4 BACK' IN OUR OFFENSIVE TERMINOLOGY!!!!" After that season, the HC decided I could best contribute to the success of the team from the sidline. Geezus.....tell me about it Porta-Crap Which is why 1) the play calls are all on QB wrist coaches. The guy on the sideline only has to signal in "Hat 4", he doesn't even have to know what the call is. 2) The guy on the sideline has the same play-call sheet (with tendencies & depth chart) that I've got up in the box 3) so when porta-dumps freaks out, he at least has an idea what we will be running (script).
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 10, 2007 21:35:45 GMT -6
not being picky or critical ... i mean we all have funny stories, etc. ... but if you got no one to trust or can't get this or that done then sounds like the coordinator isn't doing a very good job during the offseason, weekends, week, etc. in doling out duties and organizing the staff in a very effective manner ...
just my take.
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Post by spartancoach on Jul 11, 2007 7:03:35 GMT -6
I'm in the box and call the plays.
Generally - look for anything (DL tech., LD alignment, coverages) different than what we game planned for.
Specifically - (1) How many in the box; should we run or throw? (2) How are CBs covering #1; are they giving away the hitch, the fade, the slant? How are they covering #2; are they giving away the bubble, the speed out, the inside slant? (3) Are LBs leveraging inside, giving away Jet or Speed Option? (4) Do we have a 1 tech and a 6 tech with a single LB forming a triangle (veer)? (5) Presnap - should we audible based on above?
Also, those criticizing the box guys for not having the answer to specific questions, that is impossible to "see everything" on every play and be able to report what everyone did. Based on the particular play called, I usually watch for the reaction of 1 or 2 defenders to see if our "companion plays" will likely work. For example, on Jet, I'd be watching LB flow for counter and safety support for play action; I'd have no clue whether the BS tackle stepped correctly.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 11, 2007 7:30:30 GMT -6
Also, those criticizing the box guys for not having the answer to specific questions, that is impossible to "see everything" on every play and be able to report what everyone did. Based on the particular play called, I usually watch for the reaction of 1 or 2 defenders to see if our "companion plays" will likely work. For example, on Jet, I'd be watching LB flow for counter and safety support for play action; I'd have no clue whether the BS tackle stepped correctly. Great point and well said. I have been there myself and it is pretty damn hard sometimes to see who made the play. Also not sure about you guys or anything but some of the places we play the box is not so good. Basically the last row of bleachers height wise. Two years ago I said to run trap from the box. The guy below us whose head was right at the window started yelling watch the trap! I very calmly reminded him that the ledge was very wobbly and my coffee could spill very easily on top of him. Didn't hear another peep from him.
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Post by coachdjenkins on Jul 11, 2007 9:34:10 GMT -6
Best/Worst Press Box Story -- When I was in the box spotting for the Head Coach who was our OC. In the second round of the playoffs we scored with under 1 minute to play to take the lead and I forgot that their was a florescent light above me, raised my hands into the air and split my hand open. Ended up hitting the metal frame and cut the flexor tendon that moves the thumb. Went to the emergency room, got stiches. Broke down film on Saturday, had surgery on Sunday and was ready for practice Monday.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 11, 2007 11:59:22 GMT -6
Quick funny story - I was OC up in the box alogn with the defensive spotter who was on the other head sets. Small college setting with the box at the top of the grandstand with the windows open. We were winning by a good margin, but the defense had just given up an easy score and things were going south (defensively). The spotter was getting more and more frustrated when finally he let go with the F-bomb tirade to end all. The filth that began to spew out of his mouth was incredible to witness - to this day he swears that he didn't realize the windows were open. As the fans began to turn around - the coaches on the sideline could hear him - I just stepped back so I wasn't visible as I tried to get his attention. The entire stands, sidelines, and even the side judge stopped and took in the scene. Needless to say he always made sure the windows were closed from that day on!
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Post by dubber on Jul 11, 2007 12:00:44 GMT -6
As the guy who will be on the box Friday nights, I am probably going to be more anal than our OC and DC (who are on the field)........I got a smart football minded JR high coach up there with me, so i can say "what their secondary's adjustment to jet", and I can watch the box.
It is hard to watch the whole field, but
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING:
Don't watch the ball, tommy's mommy is watching the ball, watch what you need to for vital information...
If we motion into trips, I don't need to watch the quarterback, I need to watch the offensive line and protection (what blitz did they send?)......meanwhile, my counter part needs to tell me pre and post snap adjustments to that motion (also, were our routes crisp?)
For those OC and DC guys on the field, hold up your end too, make sure we know the play before the ball is snapped, so we know what to look for.
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Post by lochness on Jul 11, 2007 13:35:30 GMT -6
not being picky or critical ... i mean we all have funny stories, etc. ... but if you got no one to trust or can't get this or that done then sounds like the coordinator isn't doing a very good job during the offseason, weekends, week, etc. in doling out duties and organizing the staff in a very effective manner ... just my take. I don't know how much more I could do coach. This isn't ALL of the spotters I've ever worked with as a coordinator, just the funnier ones. We have a pre-arranged worksheet that allows the spotter to note defensive adjustments / alignments against our formations. We script our first 10 plays, and the spotter has very specific things to look for in terms of alignment and assignment on each of these plays. I conduct 3 to 4 clinics in the offseason for the entire coaching staff on our offensive system. I make cut-ups for the offensive coaching staff. I review film of our opponent's defensive fronts and adjustments. They know exactly what I want on each play, including down, distance, field position, hash, and who (by position) made the last tackle. Our spotter is also typically heavilyl involved in our game plan sessions. With all of that, I shouldn't have to ask 4 times for frigging down and distance. And, if I can't even get a timely and accurate down and distance from Coach FanDad up stairs, how the heck is he going to tell me if the CB or Safety was the force player? The ones I'm speaking about did not have the DESIRE to watch what they were supposed to. They were happy to have the best seat in the house, and that's about it. As a coordinator, I can lead horses to water but I can't make them drink. As a coordinator, it is not my duty or responsibility to reprimand or reassign a coach if he is not doing his job. I speak with the spotter about what I think is missing, and if it doesn't improve, I speak with the HC about it. If the HC doesn't want to act on it, then I get Johnny Slapnutz in my ear all season and I feel like I'm sitting next to the loud idiot in the bar who played Pop Warner football when he was 12 and thinks he can {censored} about Bill Bellichick's playcalling. You know, halfway through the third quarter of a defensive battle, I don't need the spotter saying, "Hey, coach, THIS is why we need to run the Spread Offense like Texas does!" That's great spanky, draw up a playbook and I'll take a look at it. Make sure it's 2-ply so I can wipe my bum with it. I've been called a lot of things, but "disorganized" and / or "not working with and settng expectations of other coaches" is not amongst them. I'm passionate about this point because I payed my dues (and learned a TON about football) as a spotter when I was a 21-22 year old coach. I would not be an effective coordinator if it was not for that experience. But I didn't dare look like an idiot by not having the information I was expected to have, because I cared too much and I was passionate about doing things right, and NOT about sitting up there enjoying the crisp autumn evening while I watched a good ball game. I guess I get frustrated when, after all the coaching, guidance, and tools I can fathomhave been offered up, I don't get that same performance from someone else who's supposed to be helping me. Believe it or not, somtimes people just aren't as into it and don't want to put the time and work in. We dont' exactly live in Texas or Ohio where there are 100 qualified coaches beating the door down to coach HS ball. We're lucky to have 2-3 REALLY good coaches (usually the HC and two coordinators), and the rest of the guys are there to "help out," because otherwise you don't have a staff. I'm not saying they're bad coaches, but they're just not "into it." It's like a little hobby. It's because of this that I am as organized as I am. But, I can talk and clinic and teach and pass out playbooks, charts, graphs, scouting reports, worksheets, film cuts, etc...and if the dude don't give a scoot...it's not worth the ink on the paper. Maybe you are fortunate enough to be on a staff where you have 5-6 highly motivated and qualified guys who all know and love football. I've been on staffs like that too, but usually those guys quickly get opportunities elsewhere as coordinators or what have you. I'd say you have to consider this before you judge the coordinator to be at fault.
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Post by tog on Jul 11, 2007 13:43:06 GMT -6
it's cool loch
huey has been spoiled the last few years at some of the best places in texas
when huey and i were both on the same staff we had some slappies that were just happy to be there
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Post by lochness on Jul 11, 2007 13:49:12 GMT -6
it's cool loch huey has been spoiled the last few years at some of the best places in texas when huey and i were both on the same staff we had some slappies that were just happy to be there I hear ya, dawg. I forgot to take my happy pills today obviously. Not fired up at Huey, because it's a legit point he makes. Just fired up in general. HAHA
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