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Post by bulldogoption on Dec 25, 2007 23:57:11 GMT -6
Is it the job of the coach or the job of the father?
Are we stepping over the line by assuming dads can't do it/aren't doing it?
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Post by saintrad on Dec 26, 2007 0:04:42 GMT -6
i think as teachers the level of parenting associated with character education has fallen on the schools (i.e. read as teachers) themselves. I have parents to this day that think that their kids are getting picked on by me (their pre-AP english teacher) because I make them responsible for their own actions/work by having deadlines and making them use planners.
I think that as public figures we are responsible for being good role models through our words and actions matching our deeds. I also see that we must also work with the families of our players/students to create a culture of character.
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Post by carookie on Dec 26, 2007 0:25:50 GMT -6
The Parents should teach character, but I'm sure we all have our stories of them not doing so. I have no problem trying to instill character into our boys; but I think that the best way to do this is to model it. I believe that most kids who are lacking propper parenting at home (and mind you thats subjective) can be greatly influenced by other adults; if they respect you or what you do then simply by being of high character yourself you can help out a great deal.
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Post by CVBears on Dec 26, 2007 0:37:32 GMT -6
I'd like to answer "D; all of the above." It is the job of the parent to teach character. But is it also the job of the football coach, principal, teacher, crossing guard (or whatever else). In a perfect world, even he would be a SELF PROCLAIMED role model. In reality, not everyone is a role model that teaches quality character to our young men. That doesn't mean that everyone shouldn't be teaching it everyday.
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Post by coachmallory on Dec 26, 2007 6:09:56 GMT -6
I do not think coaches have to "teach" character. If you run a solid program and do the right things as a coach the whole character thing will take care of itself. I believe that a team develops a personality similar to their coach/coaching staff. If coaches exhibit good character it will rub off on the players. I think that you do not need to teach character you just need to make sure that you have coaches with good character to set an example for the players.
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Post by sls on Dec 26, 2007 7:47:16 GMT -6
Most players are not getting it a home and I can make them a better player and more importantly a beter person by teaching it, so I do it!!
Modeling it is huge and it has to be modeled to be effective, but I think you also have to teach it. IMO, If I have students come into my class and I just read to them everyday, they will not learn to read, but if I teach them the building blocks of letters and phonics, and I read to them, that is when they become readers. If their parents are doing the samething at home, even better.
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Post by joelee on Dec 26, 2007 8:14:58 GMT -6
It is my job to teach character and that sets me appart from other coaches. I have a well designed program that we have implemented at our school and it is very satisfying to see the progress of young men. Certain administrators and parents on hiring committees are impressed, I think the profession is slowly moving toward more character education.
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Post by sls on Dec 26, 2007 8:27:01 GMT -6
It is my job to teach character and that sets me appart from other coaches. I have a well designed program that we have implemented at our school and it is very satisfying to see the progress of young men. Certain administrators and parents on hiring committees are impressed, I think the profession is slowly moving toward more character education. joelee, This is a great point, it has helped me get my last 2 jobs and has seperated me from other coaches!!
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elkabong
Freshmen Member
El Kabong Rides Again!
Posts: 52
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Post by elkabong on Dec 26, 2007 8:46:14 GMT -6
parents and family SHOULD teach character. period.
Parents should role model character. This can be magnified with a strong tie to the church and service there in.
Now, teaching character is not a responsibility of coaches, if you do, it dramatically enhances the competitiveness and maturity of your team. Conversely, if you do not have those two elements, your chances of success will be retarded.
Teachers, while it would be nice if they attempt it, I feel are severely hindered by the amount of regulation on their role in the classroom. Many teachers are hamstrung in their capacity to provide accountability to students. If they can, more power to them.
Coaches have a different impact because they can control playing time and 90% of the athletes they have are concerned with how those coaches perceive those players (players look to appease the coach).
I don't think it is mandatory, but I believe if you want kids to show 'character' or integrity, you not only have to role model it (just do the right thing, you don't have to live like a saint), but you have to TEACH IT and afford the kids to USE IT.
Teach it through character / leadership classes, then empower those kids to take leadership (leadership is just a manifestation of character).
Teach it, then expect it. The more excuses made for poor character, the more we encourage a lack of integrity. Don't expect what you don't teach, however.
It is not the coach's job, but it merely enhances the athletes they have. Just like teaching a combo block....you can talk about it, but if you never let the kids put it into action, they'll never be able to use it.
This is kin to teaching nutrition. You don't have to, but it enhances the 'clay' you have. You can choose to ignore it, and end up with a lot more variables affecting your tools (athletes).
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Post by coachnichols on Dec 26, 2007 8:55:29 GMT -6
I agree, parents and dad's should teach character and coaches should be examples.
However, from my experiences, in many cases either these things are not being taught at home (for various reasons) or the lessons are taking (for many, many reasons). Either way, more and more each day, we (coaches) are going to have to teach character to our players and it will either be teaching them character or reinforcing what they've already heard from home.
Many of us deal with situations where more of our players than not don't have a father at home or that father figure isn't a good remodel. IMO, we need to evaluate our own situations and make our own decision on what our young men need. My plan is to actively "teach" character, consistently reinforcing those lessons, and modeling them.
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Post by coachjd on Dec 26, 2007 8:58:10 GMT -6
We feel we should not be teaching character, it is the job of parents!! Now, we all know this is not happening very well. We end up talking about character, but we do not go out of our way to prepare and teach it. What we do is reward good character. If we find a student or group of students who have demonstrated something in a positive way we will say something to them or the team. We play kids based on good character. Kids with good character in our experiences are the kids you want on the field when its 4th and goal from the 1 yard line. They are the kids who will consistently make plays.
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 26, 2007 10:25:13 GMT -6
They say that it takes a village to raise a child so would that make it all of our jobs?
I like the fact that joelee said "It is mv job to teach character" He steps up and takes responsibility wether it is his child or not and not many people would do that. I say bravo to those who take this responsibility.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 26, 2007 10:26:10 GMT -6
dcohio, ignorant rookie..and everyone else who said ALL should be teachign character are correct (IMO of course). and character is not something just taught to the youth. Just model it every day, and hope others carry the flag with you.
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Post by k on Dec 26, 2007 10:34:55 GMT -6
Is it the job of the coach or the job of the father? Are we stepping over the line by assuming dads can't do it/aren't doing it? Everyone involved with that child. The parents are the most important element but teachers, coaches, etc are very much a part of the equation. Trying to pretend otherwise hurts the kid.
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Post by brophy on Dec 26, 2007 10:49:34 GMT -6
well, when we get out of our Ivory towers and off our high-horse....and actually look at what this guy posted, maybe we'll get somewhere. no, duh..we're all supposed to 'teach' character through action. That is the responsibility of being an adult in authority. Enough with the PC answers.... The point of THIS thread was, are we obligated to set CURRICULUM to directly teach the traits of 'character' and honor.Do we set aside time to say, "we are going to teach 'character' today, and THIS is what it embodies"Some may say role modeling is enough.... others may say that you are obligated to sit the kids down and train it like weight lifting.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 26, 2007 10:54:11 GMT -6
well, when we get out of our Ivory towers and off our high-horse....and actually look at what this guy posted, maybe we'll get somewhere. no, duh..we're all supposed to 'teach' character through action. That is the responsibility of being an adult in authority. Enough with the PC answers.... The point of THIS thread was, are we obligated to set CURRICULUM to directly teach the traits of 'character' and honor.Do we set aside time to say, "we are going to teach 'character' today, and THIS is what it embodies"Some may say role modeling is enough.... others may say that you are obligated to sit the kids down and train it like weight lifting. I guess it depends on your state brophy. In Arizona we are a Character Counts/Pursuing Victory with Honor state and the character education is built into our curriculum as social studies teachers. We as coaches in Arizona are also required to take Pursuing Victory with Honor courses every two or three years so and to "exemplify the ethics of sportsmanship, honor, and compassion." I do beleive most of us are trying to answer the question and getting the PC answers out of the way early allows for more frank discussions later on, as you probably know.
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 26, 2007 11:21:31 GMT -6
It takes a Village to raise a child!
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Post by saintrad on Dec 26, 2007 11:29:43 GMT -6
It takes a Village to raise a child! amen.
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dgs
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by dgs on Dec 26, 2007 12:31:29 GMT -6
If coaches aren't teaching character what are they teaching.....just football? We play the greatest game ever invented. It requires more teamwork than any other sport. It is tougher to persevere when you are getting the crap beat out of you than when someone is simply scoring a bunch of fast break points on your team. No game requires so many players to do things in unison, knowing that if they try to do things on their own, they will ultimately let their team down. Very few kids that play football will be pro players. But hopefully we have done our part to help them be successful men for years to come.
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Post by bulldogoption on Dec 26, 2007 12:48:26 GMT -6
oy vey There are many responders who feel we should model it. I agree with that of course. I don't think anybody would argue that we shouldn't be modeling many traits included in "character". BUT......My point is to ask should we intentionally be teaching this stuff. AND If we do aren't we stepping over the boundaries. My point is that when my boys are old enough to be in activities, be it football or ballet , will I be receptive to an instructor trying to teach my boys traits of "character". I would like to think I will be doing a good job. For those of you guys who TEACH traits of character, how do you justify it??? Have you ever had a father say something to the effect of "I'll teach my kid character, you teach him football." I am very close to trying to include some character curriculum in our football program, but am having a hard time getting past this roadblock. I appreciate all the responses, really. I just want to focus your attention to this specific issue.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 26, 2007 13:07:23 GMT -6
Is it the job of the coach or the job of the father? Are we stepping over the line by assuming dads can't do it/aren't doing it? specific question? actually bulldog I see it as a symbiotic relationship (character ed, coaching, and parenting) and to assume that its the father's place is also a little short sited. I work on the navajo rez and most of my kids are raides by their maternal grandparents and have very little contact with their dads. I see it as a our basic duty to at least expose them to some character ed (still not sure how much yet) and teach them the game football. I dont think youshould take time out of practice and do your Mr. Roger's when it comes to cahracter ed, but I do think you need to teach the lessons about perserverence, dedication, loayalty, fairness, honesty, compassion and such as you have it built into your program. Maybe if more HS and colleges did do this we would see less of the character-less characters of prefessional sports going bad. It is human nature to be imperfect, unlike some people think they are, and fail at things. We are trying to place band-aids on the symptoms of society's problems. this is a great thread bulldogoption. Thank you for bringing it up.
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Post by brophy on Dec 26, 2007 13:16:44 GMT -6
oy vey I appreciate all the responses, really. I just want to focus your attention to this specific issue. word. I think this is what comes down to making it 'elective', where if you DO decide to take part in "CHARACTER" building activities, you are willingly taking on some responsibilities (to learn). To me, I really look at this like a catechism-eque curriculum. "hey, we are going to do X, Y, and Z" to benefit other people and do the RIGHT THING. You can talk all you want about what real character is, but if you never DO anything, what really sinks in? I think this comes down to an off-season thing. 1) Be in the weight room....put the time in....do it correctly (that is half of the character stuff right there). 2) show up to our team building activities (just become part of the group....belong to what the GROUP [not self] is doing = selflessness) 3) Offer a 'classroom' opportunity to explore subject matter of what it takes to be a leader / character. (open dialogue of problems and issues) 4) Involve your kids TOGETHER to be involved in the community. (meals on wheels, concessions, conducting camps, volunteering = an opportunity to showcase behavior) 5) Reward those that get involved (If you involve yourself in these unsexy tasks, you have a bigger stake in the team just like share holders. You can have stock in a company, but if you don't have controlling shares, you don't really have any say it what goes on.) I believe what bulldogoption is bringing up is NOT role-modelling, but holding your players to a curriculum or else.... Where, you take my leadership training or you are not playing. Is that really the REQUIREMENT for playing time? Is that really a requirement for a coach to provide? I think one could argue that on some level this is not much different than requiring your players wear a suit and tie to away games or what not.....you may not WANT to, but as a MEMBER of our unit, you have to conform to our way of doing things. Our way of doing things involves doing _______. Character without action is simply lollipop rhetoric. Now, specifically to bulldogoption's specific question of "stepping on toes"--- well, I don't know. If you want to get offended, you can always find a way. Secondly, many parents WANT you to get after their kids. That is the reason why the support the sport because it instills something greater than you could teach anywhere else. Lastly, WHAT is 'character'? How are we defining it?
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Post by ufpena on Dec 26, 2007 13:56:34 GMT -6
To separate teaching character from what we as football coaches do, would be like not only shooting ourselves in the foot, but also hitting one of main arteries. the notion is inseparable. We ask our young stalwarts to execute what we know will put them in a position to be successful. We want them to be as precise as they can be, we ask them to be fosused and on task. All that we ask them to do requires strength of character and many of the qualities that come with it.
We implement what we call the Panther planner. this planner includes a word for the day, a place for general goals, specific goals, a daily planning schedule and best of a directional focus aimed at the state championship game. I say the best of all because it allows us to teach taking aim at something in the attainable future and working towards it using measureable goals.
We use this before the day begins and we as coaches focus on the objectives set forth by the planner through out the day. It has helped us greatly over the past three years. Our head coach, implemented it when he was first was hired and it has really worked.
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Post by bulldogoption on Dec 26, 2007 14:03:54 GMT -6
Lastly, WHAT is 'character'? How are we defining it? IMO, "character" is going to be VERY different from staff to staff. You can't teach/preach what you don't already do. Each staff will have some unique values/principles that they use in their lives. This can be taught to the players. The last thing I want to do is be a hypocrite to my players.
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Post by ufpena on Dec 26, 2007 14:18:43 GMT -6
That word hypocrite is one that cuts both ways. WOuld we be hypocrites if we do not allow our ahtletes the opportunity to acquire those traits that are necessary for success in life. If we do not afford them that opportunity, then all that we say that football does, it does not really do.
Furthermore, character is character. The only thing that differs is what we as coaches choose to emphasize.
There are many of us that live what we preach. I understand that many of us do not, but we must teach what is required for them to achieve success in life.
Would we be better for having taught it or worse? That is the question. As for me....I will involve myself in the matter as deeply as possible.
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Post by burtledog on Dec 26, 2007 14:23:13 GMT -6
It is Dad and Mom's responsibility, but everyone in relationship with anyone should teach and help folks towards good character...of course in this day we have to make sure of what "good character" means. Grace Alone, Greg
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Post by ufpena on Dec 26, 2007 14:26:00 GMT -6
P.S. If the athletes do see something in me that is contrary to what I am teaching them, it allows me the opportunity to be human and to interact with my students in a deeper, more accountable manner. I choose (and have made that decision a long time ago) as teachable as I want them to be. What is so wrong about that.
We have forgotten that at one point in time we needed the tutelage of some wiser person to get us where we are today. Furthermore, since we have assimilated that lesson a long time ago, we have forgotten how we learned it. That my dear colleague is the problem. What comes natural to us must be learned by them.
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Post by sls on Dec 26, 2007 15:55:30 GMT -6
The point of THIS thread was, are we obligated to set CURRICULUM to directly teach the traits of 'character' and honor. Yes. I guess it comes down to the question of "Why do you coach?" I coach because #1) A coach made my life a little more meaningful in HS. #2) I love football. In order for me to make an impact like my coach did to me, I need to try and meet as many needs for them as I can without sacrfising my own faith/family. I believe that one way that I can do that is to give them emotional/pyschological tools of life (what I consider character) that will improve their cahnces of being more succesfful in the short run (football season) and the long run (life). What do I consider character? Anything that you can justify as tool of life. These are the tools that I choose that talk about. I tell my kids that if they... 1. Do what is right. (Is this decision legal, best for my physical health, and best for my family/team, then do it) 2. Make hard work a habit academically, athletically, and socially. 3. Treat others as you would like to be treated. and try to live with Influence, Integrity, Attitude, Communication Skills, Courage, Sacrifise, Goal Setting, Servant Hood, and vision. Do this and you still will have dissapointment in life, but the chances are greatly increased that you will have many, many more successes in life than failures. How do I justify this curriculum to a parent? I tell them the truth, everyone of these traits helps us when football games. IMO, I guess it comes down to why you coach. If you are coaching to make life better in some small way for your players, how can you not have a curriculum to teach them some tools that will increase their chances of success.
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Post by saintrad on Dec 26, 2007 16:20:35 GMT -6
just be grateful we have people like this to help us with our character ed...
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Post by brophy on Dec 26, 2007 16:22:08 GMT -6
curriculum - an integrated course of academic studies; "he was admitted to a new program at the university" course of study, syllabus, programme, program course of lectures - a series of lectures dealing with a subject
HOW do we teach "character"? If it is just role modelling, then it is just that. We are hoping they pick it up from hanging around us.
This is just like asking if a coach should preach the gospel to his players? It isn't just about setting a good example - it is about instructing and preaching and explaining the concepts. If you do the latter, then there ought to be something in writing that you are doing / following. Not just vague concepts.
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