coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Apr 12, 2006 16:22:01 GMT -6
Don't you know that Joe-Pa is totally washed up as a coach - (that's supposed to be a sarcastic smilie thing) No, seriously people, I run a wedge, everybody does. We just don't run it 9,000 times a game. And HS coaches lose games for many reasons, the JFL program below is not one of them. However, it doesn't help when the program is run just for the sake of winning. BTW Brophy, I have a 300 lb. Yeti who runs a 4.3 40 and the HS program runs the Notre Dame Box, but I want to run a version of the swinging gate every play. What should I do? ??
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Post by jim322ps on Apr 12, 2006 18:06:59 GMT -6
Our HS program has had only 2 losing seasons in the 14 years I have lived here and one was because of injuries, the other was caused by drug suspensions. we also play up in class, if we are in d we play a & b teams and most times we beat those teams. I like to think it is because our youth program teaches the basics, including myself with the 8-10 yo's. our varsity players make very few stupid mistakes, holding, offsides and the like. my son played 2 years on off-line and 1 year on both lines WITH NO PENALTIES. Youth football programs have no responsibility to the HS to teach anything more than the basics. I also have coached baseball and the varsity program has never approached us about coaching "their way" Jim
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Apr 12, 2006 18:17:09 GMT -6
I agree with you. They need to be taught the basics. I've just been saying that doesn't happen in some places. BTW, baseball is a little different than football in terms of plays. Overall, football requires a lot of repetition and learning early does help.
I've never said people have to run things "our way." It just helps to have everyone on the same page to make the transition a little easier. Our HS team has been very successful despite the JFL program, but I always wonder if they spent more time on the fundamentals....maybe we could get over that final hump. I have never accused any of you of not doing this. I am speaking in more general terms, because there are more coaches at the youth level that play for the sole sake of winning than you think.
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Post by jhanawa on Apr 12, 2006 18:26:00 GMT -6
IMO, if the kid has been taught proper fundamentals and understands football terminology, then he can fit into any system and prosper. This isn't directed at anyone, just a general though about something that bugs me..... On the "jimmies and joes" win games, not X's and O's, IMO, thats a bunch of Bull......to me, this is nothing more than an EXCUSE ). If that truly were the case, then just throw 11 guys out on the field and have the coach sit in the stands with everyone else. I mean really, why show up if they have 11 better athletes ? Can coaching win games, YES. Will it overcome a superior ratio of talent everytime, no. There have been alot of football games won by less talented teams because of superior execution of their X's and O's...........Watch the academies play with juco talent against D1 talent and WIN. Coaching is teaching your kids and putting them in THE BEST POSSIBLE POSITION for success, regardless if its at Jr High, HS, college or Pro. Here's a simple litmus test, assuming since its all about jimmies and joe's and not X's and O's, hypothetically, your team and another are exactly equal in talent, who do you want to coach your team, Bill Bellichek or Joe Schmoe? It shouldn't matter, the game should end in a tie because talent is equal to the .00001 on every bench press and 40yd. time. In the NFL, parity isn't too far from this example, IMO. Simple game, yes, it can be. Is it always, no. We try to keep it simple as need be but try to be prepared to adapt to situations as they come about. This is where communication comes in, can we effectively make a change to put ourselves in a better situation? Name a game that has more strategy involved in it that football? There is exactly as much strategy in the FB wedge as there is in the air raid mesh, 11 guys doing what they are supposed to be doing. The reason why it is such a great TEAM sport is because it is in fact the ultimate game of strategy=working together for a common goal. Football is like the smell of napalm in the morning, nothing better.......
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Post by jim322ps on Apr 13, 2006 7:59:50 GMT -6
Coachf I was posting to the coach who stated that I should go out for the HS HC job. Fiirst of all most youth coaches would not be considered for HS HC jobs because of the stupid rule/law that teachers get the first crack at coaching jobs. So that a really bad teacher gets 2 cracks at the kids, in school and then coaching after school, thats brilliant. Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch I want to make it clear that I think most teachers/coaches are great guys and people but getting rid of a bad teacher/coach is next to impossible. Jim
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Apr 13, 2006 8:09:11 GMT -6
If a teacher has tenure, yes it is almost impossible. Getting rid of them as a coach is difficult too (unless you go to my school) I think that teachers getting first crack is just a formality. An administrator is going to hire the person he wants. It's all politics. I think it stinks that some schools keep in people who have no clue, but then again don't we do that with our politicians? It's a vicious cycle and it sucks.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Apr 13, 2006 8:30:55 GMT -6
Make sure you read entire posts before you come to a conclusion. I always do. Here's what you said further down in your original post: I'm sorry, coach, that's just plain ignorant, as you were forced to admit several messages later. You shouldn't need my help to look up "intellectual honesty" in the dictionary, coach. You know exactly what you wrote and what you meant by it, and so do I.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Apr 13, 2006 9:46:16 GMT -6
whoa, whoa settle down. My goodness! I think this is one of those conversations where you have to actually "talk" to someone to explain your position. I did say you can wedge block in JFL, but not in HS. You are right. But, I was talking about running that every single play. I never meant you can't run it at all. I probably should have clarified that point, but I am sorry I didn't. Doesn't mean you need to question my honesty. I merely said they run a DW offense which is great because so did our HS team. But they taught only wedge blocking and had foot to foot splits. The kids had a lack of experience with other blocking. Perhaps, I need to edit each and every single post that I read to make sure my message is entirely clear. Anyway, I have said several times and for some reason this isn't picked up on. I RUN A DOUBLE WING OFFENSE. I am only changing this year due to personnel. Our team made the state Semi-finals in the Double Wing. If I didn't think it worked I would be a hypocrite. I understand that some people here think that everything is an attack on their personal schemes and offenses. I am sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong. I never said you can't run a double wing. I said you can't run a "wedge' every single play and you can't "send the house" all the time. That's it. I should have read my first post to clarify, but I didn't expect people to try to read into all of the semantics of my posts. Ted I have enjoyed the playbooks that you have posted on here. I do value your opinion and I don't want this to be a rip session on one another. I will apologize for my lack of clarification and I hope this clears up some things, but don't think I am disguising a rant here. I know that the offense works. I do like pushing some buttons with it though because of the severe defenses some people put up for it. But that is because I am borderline stupid For what its worth- we had a foreign exchange student from Switzerland who played football in Europe and the coaches there did a fantastic job with him. He knew just about everything he needed to know (other then some translation problems). I'm glad to see football making its way into Europe.
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Post by coacheaton on Apr 14, 2006 16:13:57 GMT -6
well crap guys i coach both HS and youth league and I'll tell you what, those of you who think youth league is bush league or over zealous dads who wish they could still play etc.. are sometimes right but let me tell you this.
My youth teams and my youth coaching strategy is to teach the boys how to have a good time and develop a love for our game and how to play it fundamentally CORRECT. I am not in the business of making a HS middle linebacker or HS QB. I am in the business of teaching football to them.
Now same thing in HS I am not in the business of creating the next Vince Young or Charles Woodson
I am in the business of teaching those who want to play how to play it RIGHT. Those who are good enough to play else where will get a chance. Besides how many WR or DB's in college were HS QB's ...A BUNCH... Now why should I taylor my program to help that super QB become the next starting left corner back for the Miami Hurricanes when I could run a program that benefitted the other 27 guys on my roster. AND that QB if good enough will still be the next Corner for Miami...if they are looking they will find the good athletes...REGARDLESS OF THE SYSTEM THEY PLAYED IN!
This knocking youth ball is bunk and a sorry excuse for some coaches to rationalize their own faults. CE
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 14, 2006 16:20:30 GMT -6
GREAT point coach eaton. Many of the H.S. coaches who are knocking youth ball, ask yourself this... would you want collegiate level coaches to come down and say "well gosh, your OL doesn't know how to zone step. You need to teach them zone steps. YOu can wall and kick every play in H.S. but at the college level, you can't do that. You need to be a zone blocker..."
Just food for thought
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Apr 14, 2006 16:34:15 GMT -6
good point coachd. I hope I have come across clear in my arguments. People should know I don't knock youth football. I knock football coached improperly (I just happened to notice a lot of it at the lower levels -- in my area). And I think part of my anger is that kids that flunk all of my classes are still allowed to play and when they get to high school they have no clue how to get off of an ineligibility list and that is very disappointing and puts their future in jeopardy. I am sure some of you get the opportunity as youth coaches to discipline these kids, but it doesn't happen where I am from.
I think that coacheaton is right when he is talking about his development at the youth level. You can't put all your eggs into one basket, these kids need to understand the game and be prepared to contribute (big or small) at higher levels.
It probably sounds to some of the youth coaches like the HS guys are ganging up on your methodology. I seriously just wanted to pose the question of what is important at a youth level, winning or preparing for the rest of your football career. I think we have answered that - win and prepare them through "fun"damentals. I know you can win and do this at the same time, its just some people stress one over the other. It carries onto the high school and I wish I could have some of you guys coaching the youth in my town.
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211
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Post by smd on Apr 14, 2006 21:44:59 GMT -6
reps, reps, reps, reps... the more you do something the better you get. youth leagues = fundamentals and fun. jr. high (this is where the football program starts) = fundamentals, fun, basic schemes of the high schools O and D, high schools terminology. junior high is a feeder program, you feed the high school what it wants. freshman and JV = fundamentals, fun, add to basic schemes. by the time the kids get to their sophomore year: fundatmentals: roughly 10 years of fundamentals fun: roughly 10 years of fun to keep excitement for playing. high school scheme and terminology: 4 years before they are expected to play varsity. if you coach jr. high thru JV it is your job to rep what the varsity runs in order to help the program. not to make yourself into a guru or build a dynasty.
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Post by blb on Apr 15, 2006 8:23:01 GMT -6
I think sometimes we HS coaches are a little contradictory on this subject. We want the little leagues and junior highs to run our stuff to help us out, but if they're winning more than we are, we say it's not important or doesn't carry over, or worse, spoils the kids. Worst-case scenario, we blame them for what ails us. Of course there's some truth in all that.
It's awful hard to implement a system with complete vertical continuity unless the HS head coach has complete control (including hiring and firing coaches) of ALL feeder programs, which is not the case in the vast majority of communities.
Besides, if you have your fifth graders running your offense now, who's to say you'll still be running the same thing years later when they hit the varsity - or that you'll even still be the coach? Holtz once said, "When you start a youth movement, all you're doing is getting 'em ready for the next coach."
I offer all the help they want to our feeder programs - playbooks, videos, staff meetings, clinics, camps, etc. Some have taken me up on it, some haven't. If they aren't interested, I have plenty to do worrying about my team and the HS program.
Fortunately, at my present job, we've gotten good interest and cooperation from all the coaches (going into second year).
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lp78
Freshmen Member
Posts: 32
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Post by lp78 on Apr 15, 2006 9:59:38 GMT -6
Youth football to me is teaching the kids the basics of the game(blocking,tackling, passing game, kicking game etc) with a good understanding of the rules of the game to where they become instinctive to them.
My goal for the team is to run a O or D they can understand as a team & execute it to the best of the teams ability whether it be a Run n Shoot O or whatever. The key is to learn to play as a team, be physical, smart, and to never quit.
Every year I look for leaders. Like I tell the players, you expect adults to correct you whether it be a teacher, parent, coach etc. But when one of your piers gets on you for loafing or not doing things right. You take notice to it. It doesn't matter if your coaching in the NFL, College etc . You have to have leaders on the field.
As a defensive coach I teach swarming to the ball like mad hornets.(5-3 or 5-2) If the play is a pass play, we have as much right to the ball as the offensive player.
Whether our team wins or loses. The best part is watching your team become a team (brothers)
Work hard, be physical as possible, be in condition, & play as a team. It will carry on for who ever coach's them in the future.
As for winning. I'm as competitive as the next coach. Its my job to draft the best players available & make them the best team they can be. I don't win games. The kids do! If we lose, we just go back to work & learn from our mistakes as a team.
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Post by atgreek on May 3, 2006 9:15:21 GMT -6
I think the whole premise is Bologna Sandwich. To start with, you get kids as freshmen and you have 4 years to develop them. Clean up your program and quit looking at youth coaches as your assistants. Secondly, if you were breaking down film and you knew that the other team could not pass no matter what, AND you were a good coach, you would SEND THE HOUSE. Last, but definitely not least, even at the high school level, most schools don't have the personnel to emulate colleges and the pros. At the college level, they get the best 2 or 3 kids out of each high school and they still complain about talent. In the pros they get the best 200 kids from ALL the colleges and YET, alas, some teams still have "no talent". But here you are, advocating that we get our 9 year old, 115 lb cute little butterball to run your system so he can prepare for your level......GET OUT man.
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