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Post by brophy on Apr 6, 2007 12:54:05 GMT -6
No harm no foul, people
This "LULL" in the season of football has ALL OF US with shorter fuses, no biggie ( does everyone get along with the folks on their staff? )
The question was asked.
Replies followed (based on our own personal philosophies and experiences) Now, if you are using this for yourself or as a guess of what your opponent would do, is quantify it.
"Would Joe Blow High run a screen? Would they have 'option' in? Would they use cadence variations? etc"
You start narrowing the ways your opponent will respond (helps you make a tactical decision from a defensive standpoint - "I don't have to worry about ____, because they'll never do that in a million years"
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Post by coachnichols on Apr 6, 2007 12:59:21 GMT -6
Sorry to ALL!
Thanks to everyone for your responses!!
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Post by warrior53 on Apr 7, 2007 6:36:05 GMT -6
I feel like I am in a Jr. High locker room.
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Post by ufpena on Dec 23, 2007 22:21:51 GMT -6
If you have eight in the box, then I assume you are going man against my receivers. I would then get into a double twins. My first thought would be to run quick crossing routes with layered reads. 1. My left wide recever would run a dig with the base route being a blitz readto 10 yards then up to 13 and across to continue on his dig route. 2. My left slot runs a rail to his left with a sit read at 5 -10 yards depending on th depth of the cornerback. 3. My right slot runs a 3 -5 yard shallow cross near the LOS as a blitz control read through the LB'er box. If the lefte lB'er blitzes he is to sits in his vacated area and catches the ball. 4. My right split end runs an opposite post to attract the safety's attention and provide the highest read of the layer .
READ #1: The QB from the gun or under center will drop back three or five and read the linebacker box. If the line backer blitzes he drops the ball to the right slot in the vacated area. If the same linebacker drops off to cover the dig he drops the ball off the ball to the right slot, again.
READ#2: If the left lBer stays shallow to cover the short pattern the QB then proceeds to his next read which is the dig against a cover three. LB'er shallow - throw the dig on either of the hashes. After he throws the first dig, the QB must eye he FS. If the free safety even hints at covering the dig we have six over the top to the right split end.
READ #3: If the pressure is heavy then we can have the left slot run his sit down read at seven yards.
Normally we do not run it in this fashion, but I have faced quick pressure and these drilled adjustments have been very successful for us.
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Post by shamespiral on Dec 23, 2007 22:57:24 GMT -6
Ahem... Midline.
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Post by k on Dec 23, 2007 23:18:50 GMT -6
Scenario... You're the offensive coordinator vs. 3-5. You realize the defense is in man coverage with 8 in the box to stop your run game. After you tell me you're going to pass, my next question is let's say the CB's are good and practically take away your #1's...now what? Don't let people get you down. [Censored] them. Assumptions: 8 in the box Two shut down corners I'm not going to abandon the run but the 5-3 does limit what I can run. First if you've got 5 techs I'm going to option them first play. Single back at the guard's butt and QB outside the tackle. I'm going to do it out of trips to see how you'll react to that. If you have 4 techs I'm probably going to run speed option away from trips looking for the same things or power (BSG Pulls & Kicks out your DE) and look for the same thing as if 5s. Are you going corner over to put your top cover guys (which we're assuming can man up on my WRs and win). Are you putting the FS on the other WR and leaving your Corner on my backside TE? Are you sliding out your OLB or DE to the trips? If you man your OLB up with my TE I'll flex him out into a true trips and see if he follows. If he follows I'm going to run at my guard to the trips until you adjust (probably by sliding your LBs into a true 5-2) to which I've accomplished my goal and I'm going back to running my full offensive package. If you man your DE on my TE I'll again flex him out into a true trips and see if he follows. If he follows I'm going back to the first play I ran. I'm going to option your DT towards the trips. Back to the inside QB outside. I'm also going to abuse your OLB on my TE with play action right at him and fake block by the TE. Additionally I'm going to do the obvious and vacate an entire area and bootleg to that side. I also tend to run my QB a lot in general when I've got 8 in the box even if I've got zone. I like my RB kicking out your DE and although less I'll take him leading inside for my QB on your OLBs. I don't claim to be good at this yet (I've probably been coaching less than almost everyone on the board) but I hope it helped a little.
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Post by carson101 on Dec 23, 2007 23:28:48 GMT -6
I simply think that if a team wants to load the box they are asking for trouble if my kids can make their assignments and complete a block you could put ten in the box and the result would be the same there is a weakness and it has to be exploited reguardless of you stopping us or not It is fustrating not moving the ball but using film,practicing reps to what you will do and anticipation is what its all about anyway.i had this happen once we went unbalanced threw to our te and scored they stopped stacking the box after we came back to the same formation each time in a third and long situation. We won from a deficit of 14-0 at the half to a 34-20 win.
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Post by cc on Dec 24, 2007 1:10:33 GMT -6
I agree, if you can't come up with "What -ifs" for X and O talks then whats the point of this forum??? I am surprized that the old cliche "its not the X's and O's but the jimmy and Jo's that matter" has not shown up. But it has I supposse... Anyways, I thought it was a simple enough question that brought up some good discussion. You also kept it alive several times to keep it going. My 1st thought that I did see some touch on was to elimiate the corners by trying to have them cover my not-best recievers. By this I mean if I could not use #1's at the WR I would use them somewhere else hoping that the corners would still stay on the edge. Try to get a WR vs a LB who is not as good in coverage as that corner is. We had this issue as a team blitzed the hell out of us and our WR's could not beat their corners. It was a long day. Our QB got pounded when we tried to shovel and option. A screen got picked off for a TD. We jumped offside when we tried to change up the cadence. It was a group of kids that just did not have the moxie the other team did. I was outcoached but also out jimmy and joe'd
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Post by coachnichols on Dec 24, 2007 12:19:18 GMT -6
Funny to re-read that mistake again. The reason I had originally posted that was to be specific. I was the DC for a team playing the best TB in the state week 1. I knew their staff was dependent on the kid carrying the team. The TB isn't blue chip good like everyone touts him as, but he is very fast and much better than the talent his team plays against 80% of the season.
Anyways, I'm young and not that experienced, so I was trying to get an idea what some old-hand coordiantors (like the idiot I was going against that week) might do when he was seeing our defenese (3-5) stacking the box/edges to keep his one weapon from killing us. I should have said all that, but like I said, I'm young and not that experienced. I didn't know a middle school coach might jump on here and give me some BS about white boards and what nots. I should have been very clear about what my intentions are. I love the "what if" questions that come up, I was just trying to make this specific, but I didn't say that so it's my fault this turned in to a "junior high locker room" like somebody said. I don't know what that means exactly, and I don't think I really want to know actually.
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Post by coachcalande on Dec 24, 2007 13:42:08 GMT -6
Scenario... You're the offensive coordinator vs. 3-5. You realize the defense is in man coverage with 8 in the box to stop your run game. What are your answers to this? After you tell me you're going to pass, my next question is let's say the CB's are good and practically take away your #1's...now what? we had quite a bit of success running isos using fold blocks up front. I really dont think that "8 in the box" is an issue if we can block them. What I mean is that we dont have to block all 8 if we can get angles and wall off two men with one good block. I also like the off tackle game vs that kind of front. IF you can get the qb involved in the run game rather than being a handoff maching it creates one more to give the advantage to the O.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 14:47:06 GMT -6
Funny to re-read that mistake again. The reason I had originally posted that was to be specific. I was the DC for a team playing the best TB in the state week 1. I knew their staff was dependent on the kid carrying the team. The TB isn't blue chip good like everyone touts him as, but he is very fast and much better than the talent his team plays against 80% of the season. Anyways, I'm young and not that experienced, so I was trying to get an idea what some old-hand coordiantors (like the idiot I was going against that week) might do when he was seeing our defenese (3-5) stacking the box/edges to keep his one weapon from killing us. I should have said all that, but like I said, I'm young and not that experienced. I didn't know a middle school coach might jump on here and give me some BS about white boards and what nots. I should have been very clear about what my intentions are. I love the "what if" questions that come up, I was just trying to make this specific, but I didn't say that so it's my fault this turned in to a "junior high locker room" like somebody said. I don't know what that means exactly, and I don't think I really want to know actually. It is all in the phrasing. When I read your first question, it did come off like "I run the 3-3, and you can't possibly stop anything I do" type of thread. Your follow up comments were "OK, you say you will pass, but I have to corners that will shut you down, so you can't do that. What are you going to do now (the pee down the leg thing was a bit cocky too)
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Post by fbdoc on Dec 24, 2007 15:19:19 GMT -6
These "What if?" scenarios are important topics because most of us will eventually have to deal with a game situation where we just can't run our base stuff because the talent on the other team is just as good as what we have. NOW what do you do? You've got be be a Coach!
In our district we have 3 schools that just flat out have better (through scholarship!) kids than we have - we are just not going to beat them. We also have 2-3 schools who are in the opposite situation - our kids are better (we had better not lose to them!). Now the other 4 games we play each year are against "like" competition where we feel that if we out work and out coach them we should win. THESE are the games where this type of question / scenario are appropriate because you can't keep running your stud TB because he's a "stud". Now its, how are you going to run your TB, because you've got nothing else? Keep the questions coming and we'll keep trying to come up with suggestions, as opposed to answers.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 24, 2007 15:57:54 GMT -6
We are a multiple formation veer unit. As such, there are some coverages and fronts that can stop us and then there are some that JUST DON'T WORK. It's just the nature of our offense; not anything to do with us being offensive masterminds. Defenses need fronts and coverages that allow them to limit bubbles in the LOS and assign people to all three aspects of the attack.
With that being said, man-man coverage is one of those coverages that doesn't work against veer. You can't blitz, play straight man coverage, and still assign 3 guys (on each side of the ball) to the veer.
This isn't a case of "last man with the chalk"; it's just a simple matter of fact. I know because I have been a veer OC and a DC trying to stop veer.
We will have one team totally outmanned and they will live in 5-2 Eagle Cover 2 and slow us way down. We will play another team that could stomp us flat and we'll hang 30+ on them because they live in man coverage and bring 5-6 at a time. They don't understand veer and they lose because of it.
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Post by carson101 on Dec 26, 2007 3:22:25 GMT -6
The moral of the story is, You really don't know until it happens
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Post by coachnichols on Dec 26, 2007 7:46:55 GMT -6
We are a multiple formation veer unit. As such, there are some coverages and fronts that can stop us and then there are some that JUST DON'T WORK. It's just the nature of our offense; not anything to do with us being offensive masterminds. Defenses need fronts and coverages that allow them to limit bubbles in the LOS and assign people to all three aspects of the attack. With that being said, man-man coverage is one of those coverages that doesn't work against veer. You can't blitz, play straight man coverage, and still assign 3 guys (on each side of the ball) to the veer. This isn't a case of "last man with the chalk"; it's just a simple matter of fact. I know because I have been a veer OC and a DC trying to stop veer. We will have one team totally outmanned and they will live in 5-2 Eagle Cover 2 and slow us way down. We will play another team that could stomp us flat and we'll hang 30+ on them because they live in man coverage and bring 5-6 at a time. They don't understand veer and they lose because of it. Good post! That's funny!
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reaper
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16
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Post by reaper on Jan 1, 2008 23:08:17 GMT -6
We are a multiple formation veer unit. As such, there are some coverages and fronts that can stop us and then there are some that JUST DON'T WORK. It's just the nature of our offense; not anything to do with us being offensive masterminds. Defenses need fronts and coverages that allow them to limit bubbles in the LOS and assign people to all three aspects of the attack. With that being said, man-man coverage is one of those coverages that doesn't work against veer. You can't blitz, play straight man coverage, and still assign 3 guys (on each side of the ball) to the veer. This isn't a case of "last man with the chalk"; it's just a simple matter of fact. I know because I have been a veer OC and a DC trying to stop veer. We will have one team totally outmanned and they will live in 5-2 Eagle Cover 2 and slow us way down. We will play another team that could stomp us flat and we'll hang 30+ on them because they live in man coverage and bring 5-6 at a time. They don't understand veer and they lose because of it. Good post! That's funny! Why is that funny?
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Post by coachnichols on Jan 2, 2008 13:42:39 GMT -6
It's just funny.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 2, 2008 16:09:17 GMT -6
funny how? ahahahahaha
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2008 20:17:16 GMT -6
BROPHY...what did you do with Huey???
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