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Egos
Apr 16, 2006 10:45:13 GMT -6
Post by tothehouse on Apr 16, 2006 10:45:13 GMT -6
I am curious how many coaches coach with a heavy ego. Sure there has to be some ego involved with coaching, but how much?
If a coach is out there to make players better and build relationships then an ego can take the back seat.
How many guys have ego guys on their staffs? How many guys on this board seem to "know more than somebody else"? Or know so much that their method "is" the way to do something not "a" way to do it.
I ask because of the best teams we play the staffs have limited ego coaches on them.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Egos
Apr 16, 2006 11:30:25 GMT -6
Post by coachf on Apr 16, 2006 11:30:25 GMT -6
I do not like big egos on a staff. Everyone we had last year was more than willing to learn and ask questions. I really liked that, because it helped me to learn more. On the practice field, I do not have an ego with the kids. However, I never act like I don't know something. I think it takes some acting sometimes, but I don't want the kids to think that I am not sure of what I am coaching. I tend to do a little bit of "Hey, why don't we try it like this and I'll look at it on film and see which way will fit us better," or "I know how I want to run it, but I am going to make sure coach whoever and I are on the same page." Then I will run home and read through every book I have and call every coach I can until I get the right answer
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Egos
Apr 16, 2006 18:43:20 GMT -6
Post by coachjd on Apr 16, 2006 18:43:20 GMT -6
We brought a new guy on board last fall to work with our 10th grade Offense and be the varsity RB coach. Had a few years of college playing experience and 5 years of JH football coaching experience, but seemed like a real good guy and said he loved football. (We are looking for guys like this right?)
As the first 10th grade games comes around the header asked me to help him with the call sheet and go to the game and help him with the play calling to make sure the help him if he has any questions. We get to the game and I watch the opponents defense and they are running a base 4-4. So I make a little note card for him what should be ok to run vs a 4-4 and out of what formations and motions etc... I give him the card and said, here is what has been good for us the past few years vs. the 4-4 in our offense, if you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do what I can to help. They guy looks at me and says, if you think I'm going to sit here and let you tell me what we can do and cannot do your crazy. I have total control of what we need to run to win. I said, ok and good luck. I went and sat in the stands.
By halftime the 10th grade DC is about ready to strangle the guy. I don't think we had more than a couple of first downs and not even a sniff at the endzone the entire game. To make a long story short the guy will not be coaching with us anymore. His ego was like this the entire season, even when the header made some recommendations to him.
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Egos
Apr 16, 2006 18:46:44 GMT -6
Post by tog on Apr 16, 2006 18:46:44 GMT -6
We brought a new guy on board last fall to work with our 10th grade Offense and be the varsity RB coach. Had a few years of college playing experience and 5 years of JH football coaching experience, but seemed like a real good guy and said he loved football. (We are looking for guys like this right?) As the first 10th grade games comes around the header asked me to help him with the call sheet and go to the game and help him with the play calling to make sure the help him if he has any questions. We get to the game and I watch the opponents defense and they are running a base 4-4. So I make a little note card for him what should be ok to run vs a 4-4 and out of what formations and motions etc... I give him the card and said, here is what has been good for us the past few years vs. the 4-4 in our offense, if you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do what I can to help. They guy looks at me and says, if you think I'm going to sit here and let you tell me what we can do and cannot do your crazy. I have total control of what we need to run to win. I said, ok and good luck. I went and sat in the stands. By halftime the 10th grade DC is about ready to strangle the guy. I don't think we had more than a couple of first downs and not even a sniff at the endzone the entire game. To make a long story short the guy will not be coaching with us anymore. His ego was like this the entire season, even when the header made some recommendations to him. that's not ego that's just being ignorant
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Egos
Apr 16, 2006 19:03:27 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 16, 2006 19:03:27 GMT -6
One of my assistants (very successful former HC) and I both have pretty big egos in the office. The one speaking is always "right" and the other guy is wrong... both of us are bull-headed and it is very hard to talk one or the other out of his respective philosophical position... but it can be done, which is why our arguments are beneficial. Once we get on the field, you would never know there was ever a disagreement. We are great friends and have a lot of respect for one another, so that is probably why it works... he is the DC, I am the OC... and I'd just as soon win 2-0... he'd just as soon win 58-56 (well... we say this anyway)
Re: what I know in comparison to others... I have advanced so far in my football knowledge that I am now an embodiment of Socratic wisdom: "The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing".
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 6:28:46 GMT -6
Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2006 6:28:46 GMT -6
that's not ego that's just being ignorant They aren't the same? I was raised in humility and athletics is one place that can humble you quick, because there will always be someone out there stronger, faster, bigger, quicker, smarter, better looking....(lol) than you are...your day will come. You can't always win and you can't always lose. I think you have to LEAD, and project confidence and purpose, but the main thing is....THIS IS NOT YOUR TEAM....it is the KID'S team, it is OUR team, WE (staff, boosters, kids, feeder program) built the team and the product on the field. We have a responsibilty to organize it and get the kids performing and executing. But the Championship trophy is no more the coach's as it is the players that won it on the field. At least, that's the way I look at it.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 6:39:01 GMT -6
Post by groundchuck on Apr 17, 2006 6:39:01 GMT -6
I had an assistant like that this year. They are a pain in the butt to work with because everything has to be a pissing contest with them. He was so bullheaded that if I (as the HC) made a suggestion on something for him he fought me. I wound up having to pull out the big dog routine quite a bit to get things done the way I wanted them done. Is that ego on my part?
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 6:49:43 GMT -6
Post by tog on Apr 17, 2006 6:49:43 GMT -6
right
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 7:02:13 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 7:02:13 GMT -6
I agree with brophy. What we do, we do as educators. Sometimes coaches' egos are an impediment to their responsibilities to the kids and team. Coaches should get their egos satisfied somewhere else.
groundchuck, I tell our coaches that we are working together, not "for" someone (me). Out of necessity, someone must make the final decisions and take responsibility (me again). If they can convince me their way is better, we'll do it that way. But that's what staff meetings are for.
All I want to do is win and have fun doing it. I could care less who gets the credit. When you win, there's enough to go around, anyway.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 7:08:07 GMT -6
Post by groundchuck on Apr 17, 2006 7:08:07 GMT -6
I agree with brophy. What we do, we do as educators. Sometimes coaches' egos are an impediment to their responsibilities to the kids and team. Coaches should get their egos satisfied somewhere else. groundchuck, I tell our coaches that we are working together, not "for" someone (me). Out of necessity, someone must make the final decisions and take responsibility (me again). If they can convince me their way is better, we'll do it that way. But that's what staff meetings are for. All I want to do is win and have fun doing it. I could care less who gets the credit. When you win, there's enough to go around, anyway. Exactly...convince me "your" way is better and I will adopt it as "our" way. For example stretching this year. I had an assistant that wanted to try something new and showed me. I let him run with it. Because a head coach with a big ego can also be a hinderance on trying new things too. That is what staff meetings are for. Once we get out on the field it is always "our" way as opposed to "his" way or "your" way. But like you said someone has to make the final decision.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 7:14:40 GMT -6
Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2006 7:14:40 GMT -6
all that being said.....I personally know Bill Cowher, Ronald Reagan, Peyton Manning, Urban Meyer, Condolezza Rice, Andrew Dice Clay, and Tom Smuthers....
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 7:27:45 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 7:27:45 GMT -6
YOU know TOM SMOTHERS?! WOW, now I AM impressed...can I hang with you?
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 8:02:03 GMT -6
Post by mikewdw on Apr 17, 2006 8:02:03 GMT -6
how do you deal with asst. with egos? i have one who had some good offensive thoughts that we put in last year. One day in practice after he had called a new play i asked for him to get me a copy. he just said "why". as the head coach i didnt think asking for a copy of it drawn up was too much. this goes with a lot of other stuff dealing with him. how have you guys handled situations like that?
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 8:46:39 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2006 8:46:39 GMT -6
I don't know if that is ego mike... or just a lack of professionalism.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:21:11 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 9:21:11 GMT -6
mikewdw, hate to say it, but if he's putting in new stuff without checking with you as hc first, that ship has already sailed.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:27:24 GMT -6
Post by tothehouse on Apr 17, 2006 9:27:24 GMT -6
To me that is ego (the situation Mike is talking about). Pushing your way onto somebody is saying that your way is better. The same kind of guy talks {censored} when the head coach isn't around backstabbing him and disrupting everything.
That is ego.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:30:17 GMT -6
Post by groundchuck on Apr 17, 2006 9:30:17 GMT -6
Been down that road....never to go there again.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:37:16 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 17, 2006 9:37:16 GMT -6
After looking at my post again... and especially after comparing to others' stories... "Ego" is not really a problem. We all believe in what we believe- and challenge each other and are all willing to be challenged..."Ego" is probably not the right word (Id, Superego???)
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:38:49 GMT -6
Post by knight9299 on Apr 17, 2006 9:38:49 GMT -6
Ego is hiding behind the excuse of "We don't have the kids, so why bother tweaking our system" Or just plain hiding behind the excuse of not having kids but refusing to change anything. I was an assistant under a HC like this. Brought me in to help implement a 43 defense. Of course everything I tried to suggested was too much for our kids. Didn't stay long there.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:56:12 GMT -6
Post by mikewdw on Apr 17, 2006 9:56:12 GMT -6
BLB, i knew we were putting in the plays but i wanted a copy of the blocking scheme. i dont mind listening to young coaches, they are full of fire but his attitude seemed like he didnt need to explain it to me. i didn't care for that. i know he felt like i should trust him, and i felt like i did just by letting him even put it in. does that sound off base?
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:58:33 GMT -6
Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2006 9:58:33 GMT -6
After looking at my post again... quot;Ego" is probably not the right word (Id, Superego???) I'm sure your retraction largely has to do with your suppressed sexual frustrations dealing with your mother and her shoe closet and resenting your father for wearing a tie.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 9:59:03 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 17, 2006 9:59:03 GMT -6
Pushing your way onto somebody is saying that your way is better.
Pushing one's way may be overstepping... but as a HC, I like it when I have guys with their own ideas and have SOME philosophical differences. If i can't defend my own position very well, I'd better strongly consider the alternative(s) presented.
Groundchuck put it well: Exactly...convince me "your" way is better and I will adopt it as "our" way.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 10:12:06 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 10:12:06 GMT -6
I don't think you were off base, mike - maybe just a little late.
When an assistant comes to me with a new idea or different way of doing something, we work it out in a staff meeting before deciding on a course of action. On the field in front of the kids you MUST have a united front.
In the staff meeting I will play devil's advocate and make the coach defend his idea against a lot of "what ifs..." and what could be wrong with his proposal. I want to see if he has completely thought through the thing and is ready to go to the mat for it.
Woody Hayes used to ask his guys, "Would you bet your job on it?" I don't go that far, but I want to make sure they have all the answers and really believe in what they're proposing.
If I decide against the suggested change, I will explain in as positive and encouraging manner possible why we're going to stick with what we've been doing.
But, again, this is done behind closed doors. Coaches should never argue in front of the squad - must hash out any differences or disagreements in private, for the sake of EVERYBODY's morale.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 10:18:39 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 10:18:39 GMT -6
brophy - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 10:19:22 GMT -6
Post by tothehouse on Apr 17, 2006 10:19:22 GMT -6
The other part of ego is how your program is perceived by others. Are you or your assistants cocky? Do you walk around like your program is second to none and better than everything out there? Is your spread offense superior to the neighboring school?
Your team might be superior, but I believe humility and humbleness shows extreme character in winning and losing.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 10:34:54 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 17, 2006 10:34:54 GMT -6
I'm sure your retraction largely has to do with your suppressed sexual frustrations dealing with your mother and her shoe closet and resenting your father for wearing a tie.
Ahhhh... very eenteresting... Vee perhaps to begin therapy... no?
The other part of ego is how your program is perceived by others. Are you or your assistants cocky?
There are pretty good guys on the staff here... we kind of look (and act) like the 5 stooges (add in Curly Joe and Shemp). But we've had success, other schools may think we are cocky or try to intimidate (team... coaches only intimidate the guys who own the buffet lines)...whatever... and to be honest, I kind of like that.
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 12:07:21 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 17, 2006 12:07:21 GMT -6
By the way, brophy... you know the real reason I suffer psychologically..... "They took the bar! the whole ****ing bar!!!"
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 12:08:52 GMT -6
Post by tog on Apr 17, 2006 12:08:52 GMT -6
fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 12:19:29 GMT -6
Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 17, 2006 12:19:29 GMT -6
Tog, "My advice to you is to start drinking heavily"
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Egos
Apr 17, 2006 17:47:47 GMT -6
Post by blb on Apr 17, 2006 17:47:47 GMT -6
(insert Tim Matheson's legendary, generation-inspiring speech here)
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